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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / July 2008

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Fine for 3 days then...

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William Michael  Greene - 15 Jul 2008 23:38 GMT
Last Wednesday I had a robotic prostatectomy performed, the nerves were
spared. I spent one day in the hospital and left with a Foley catheter in
place. I was fine until Saturday night when I started to have strong
sensations of having to urinate although no flow was observed going into the
catheter. These sensations are very painful and have been occurring more
often. The doctor prescribed oxycodone and I have been reluctant to take
them as the Tylenol and Advil have been sufficient until these sensations
started.
A friend from Orlando has a coworker that said he used hot showers whenever
he had this problem and he also said that his doctor prescribed a "blue"
pill that turned his urine blue and that helped. I have tried the shower and
it did help. I am scheduled to have the catheter removed this Friday and was
wondering if anyone else has had this problem and what they did to deal with
it.

Thanks in advance for the replies.
I.P. Freely - 16 Jul 2008 00:33 GMT
William Michael Greene wrote:
> I started to have strong
> sensations of having to urinate although no flow was observed going into the
> catheter. These sensations are very painful and have been occurring more
> often. The doctor prescribed oxycodone

*DEMAND* your ER use their ultrasonic bladder content gauge to measure
the urine volume in your bladder. After two surgeries years apart
(cranial, prostate, and colon), my catheters stopped flowing several
times. Several nurses and 2 or 3 doctors all refused to believe my
cathetered bladder was painfully full until I very painfully dragged my
heavily drugged and badly ravaged carcass (both of my surgeries were
pretty serious) out of bed on my own, dry heaved due to instant motion
sickness after my cranial surgery, manipulated both flesh and plastic,
and cut loose into their plastic bags with dangerously high quantities
of urine ... WAY over a quart until I learned to absolutely DEMAND
relief sooner. I finally removed my own damned catheter a couple of days
early after my prostate surgery; it was that or burst, IMO.

Pills, my a.s. If you feel full, you may be full, and that's dangerous.
If the bladder ultrasound (they wave a hand-held widget over your
abdomen and pronounce, "600 milliliters" or whatever) shows an empty
bladder, THEN and only then consider medicines. Any doctor who tells me
to take a pain pill to mask undiagnosed pain is likely to be facing a
medical board of inquiry after he picks himself up off the floor; I'm
getting that sick and tired of these lazy, arrogant cretins who think
we're stupid.

If I sound angry, it may be because I'm angry. I've had to manage my own
treatment WAY too often, sometimes in life-threatening circumstances.
The sad part is that I'm an engineer, not a doctor.

Go pee.

I.P.
U.P.
Wee All P.
And if we don't ... THERE MAY BE A REASON.
Alan Meyer - 16 Jul 2008 02:40 GMT
> ...
> *DEMAND* your ER use their ultrasonic bladder content gauge to measure
> the urine volume in your bladder.
...

I.P.

After one of my brachytherapies I couldn't urinate.  The
nurse on duty said I should drink more water.  Then the
rad onc came in and just felt my abdomen with her hand.
She told me and the nurse - "No, his bladder is full, I can
feel it."

Apparently, even without the fancy equipment, a doctor
should be able to tell if the patient has a full bladder or
not.

But, as you say, this requires that the docs care enough
to check.

William,

I'm not a doctor, so what follows is pure layman's
speculation.

Do you believe that you are producing a normal amount
of urine?  If so, then I would think that a stoppage isn't
the problem.  However if your urine output is decreasing
I would take I.P.'s warning very seriously.

   Alan
William Michael  Greene - 16 Jul 2008 17:33 GMT
Thanks for the reply. I am passing urine and do not feel that a full bladder
is causing my problem. I think it is bladder spasms and hope they will go
away when they remove the catheter on Friday.

Again thanks for the reply.

On 7/15/08 9:40 PM, in article
c60f6c18-0238-47ef-8d60-d121d6028914@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, "Alan
Meyer" <ameyer2@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> ...
>> *DEMAND* your ER use their ultrasonic bladder content gauge to measure
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
>     Alan
Paul - 16 Jul 2008 21:40 GMT
>Thanks for the reply. I am passing urine and do not feel that a full bladder
>is causing my problem. I think it is bladder spasms and hope they will go
>away when they remove the catheter on Friday.
>
>Again thanks for the reply.

Don't be surprised if they do not. I am 13 months post RLRP and
occasionally I'll wakeup in the morning with sharp pains because I did
not wake up to urinate during the night. When I hit the head, I have
to urinate sitting down and my stream is very weak but I evacuate.

After that, I'm good until the next random episode (always during the
evening). I plan on discussing it with my uro the next time I see him
which is primarily because I do not seem to be able to urinate as well
as I'd like to after orgasm which is a separate issue but one none the
less.

Signature

PSA @ 45 yrs. = 4.7 02/06/2007
Biopsy 03/16/2007 G7(3+4),T1c
RLRP 06/12/2007 G7(3+4),T2cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA 07/16/2007 = <0.1
PSA 09/12/2007 = <0.1
PSA 12/18/2007 = <0.1
PSA 03/12/2008 = <0.1
PSA 06/12/2008 = <0.1

Ron B - 16 Jul 2008 17:47 GMT
I wrote to William directly to mention clotting in the bladder that
blocks the cath.

I won't bore you again with my story except clotting kept me in the
hospital 7 days instead of the normal two.

Irrigation was done 5 times a day to keep the cath clear.

Ditropan was the FIRST thought...when they thought it was bladder
spasms...but "I" knew that I was full.

When I felt it...I had 10 minutes TOPS, (before the screaming started).
I was always irrigated before that.

Best,

Ron B.
William Michael  Greene - 16 Jul 2008 17:24 GMT
Thanks for the reply. I understand your concern is that my bladder may not
be emptying but I don't think that is my case. My catheter is being filled
but sometimes I get these painful sensations and when I do either no urine
is passing or very little is passing. I don't think my bladder is full. I am
hoping that once the catheter is removed my problem will go away.

Thanks again for replying.

On 7/15/08 7:33 PM, in article Wsafk.39$66.25@newsfe06.lga, "I.P. Freely"
<fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow> wrote:

> William Michael Greene wrote:
>> I started to have strong
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> Wee All P.
> And if we don't ... THERE MAY BE A REASON.
I.P. Freely - 16 Jul 2008 18:21 GMT
William Michael Greene wrote:
> I understand your concern is that my bladder may not
> be emptying but I don't think that is my case. My catheter is being filled
> but sometimes I get these painful sensations and when I do either no urine
> is passing or very little is passing. I don't think my bladder is full.

Then never mind the alarm bells.  ;-)

I interpreted your "no flow was observed going into the catheter" to
mean your bag was remaining empty, which is a medical emergency.

I.P.
William Michael  Greene - 18 Jul 2008 19:44 GMT
Catheter removed today. First urination painless. Pathology report found no
cancer outside the prostate. Next PSA at 3 months.

Wanted to thank all that responded and provided help and encouragement.

On 7/16/08 1:21 PM, in article d6qfk.175$RM1.113@newsfe01.iad, "I.P. Freely"
<fuhgheddaboutit@noway.nohow> wrote:

> William Michael Greene wrote:
>> I understand your concern is that my bladder may not
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> I.P.
Steve Kramer - 18 Jul 2008 21:18 GMT
> Catheter removed today. First urination painless. Pathology report found
> no
> cancer outside the prostate. Next PSA at 3 months.

That's great news, William.  That report is the first of many and possibly
the most important.  How did they rate your Gleason and Stage?  What was
your PSA prior to surgery?

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  <.1  <.1  <.1  .27  .37  .75            PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32                       PSAD .056 years
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145       PSAD 1.4 years
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04, <0.05, <0.04, <0.04, <0.1  2/12/08
Illegitimati non carborundum

I.P. Freely - 19 Jul 2008 09:29 GMT
William Michael Greene wrote:
> Catheter removed today. First urination painless. Pathology report found no
> cancer outside the prostate. Next PSA at 3 months.

So THAT was the *YEEEEE HAH!* I faintly heard outside today.

I.P.
Ron B - 16 Jul 2008 17:37 GMT
I.P. told William to 'go pee.'

I understand...but I had clots blocking the cath...needed irrigation 5
times a day...and stayed in the hospital for 7 days.

For the clots.

Eventually they dissolved and I was able to go home without filling up
every hour.

It was a blessing in disguise cuz I went through the rough stuff in the
hospital.

I'm amazed at the guys who want to go home in 2 days...however I DO know
that there were no clots. :-)

The rest...it's OK if you'd rather be at home.

I needed irrigation...and they told me that only a doc or nurse
practioner could do it.

I know that they sometimes TEACH a patient to do it themselves, and I
could have...but I was able to stay for the week...and it helped when I
got home.

This is very unusual.

Best to everyone,

Ron B.

Chicago
Steve Kramer - 16 Jul 2008 00:57 GMT
> Last Wednesday I had a robotic prostatectomy performed,

Welcome to the club, William...  or may I call you Bill?

I didn't have the surgery or problem that you describe.  I am certain one of
the fine men here will reply with their experience.  Just wanted to welcome
you to the club no one every applied for.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  <.1  <.1  <.1  .27  .37  .75            PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32                       PSAD .056 years
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145       PSAD 1.4 years
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04, <0.05, <0.04, <0.04, <0.1  2/12/08
Illegitimati non carborundum

Dwight - 16 Jul 2008 02:24 GMT
On Jul 15, 3:38 pm, William Michael  Greene <wm...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> Last Wednesday I had a robotic prostatectomy performed, the nerves were
> spared. I spent one day in the hospital and left with a Foley catheter in
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance for the replies.

Might be bladder spasms.  But I was getting urine flow around the
outside of the catheter too.  There's a drug they prescribe for that.
Bladder spasms are very painful.  I started getting them a few days
before the catheter was to come out.
Heather - 16 Jul 2008 02:37 GMT
On Jul 15, 3:38 pm, William Michael  Greene <wm...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> Last Wednesday I had a robotic prostatectomy performed, the nerves
> were
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance for the replies.

>>>Might be bladder spasms.  But I was getting urine flow around the
outside of the catheter too.  There's a drug they prescribe for that.
Bladder spasms are very painful.  I started getting them a few days
before the catheter was to come out.<<<<<

That was my thought when I first read his post.  I take a *blue pill*
for bladder spasms and yes, they can be painful.  And you can get them
even if you are female and don't have a prostate (G).

The blue pill is called *ditropan* and I would suggest that William/Bill
speak to his doctor about it because pain pills are not entirely the
answer.  Been there, done that.

Good luck.....Heather
William Michael  Greene - 16 Jul 2008 17:28 GMT
I think they they are bladder spasms and I am hopeful that they go away when
they remove the catheter on Friday although I have heard from one guy that
was still getting them 5 years after having surgery. Ouch!!!

Thanks for replying.

On 7/15/08 9:24 PM, in article
4bed7606-10ad-42c8-b0e3-ceb8934726b1@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, "Dwight"
<nodamnspamok@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Jul 15, 3:38 pm, William Michael  Greene <wm...@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Bladder spasms are very painful.  I started getting them a few days
> before the catheter was to come out.
jloomis - 16 Jul 2008 02:37 GMT
Bladder Spasm.....
Bladder trying to rid itself of the catheter.
Those do subside.
There also are complications that only your Dr. can help you with.
Get down there today.
jloomis
> Last Wednesday I had a robotic prostatectomy performed, the nerves were
> spared. I spent one day in the hospital and left with a Foley catheter in
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance for the replies.
William Michael  Greene - 16 Jul 2008 17:30 GMT
I think they they are bladder spasms and I am hopeful that they go away when
they remove the catheter on Friday although I have heard from one guy that
was still getting them 5 years after having surgery. Ouch!!!

Thanks for replying.

On 7/15/08 9:37 PM, in article g5jjcl017gk@news4.newsguy.com, "jloomis"

> Bladder Spasm.....
> Bladder trying to rid itself of the catheter.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>>
>> Thanks in advance for the replies.
Gourd Dancer - 16 Jul 2008 03:31 GMT
I suggest that you sit in a hot bath 4-5 times a day with the sole purpose
to urinate. An RN told me as I was leaving with my seeding procedure, to do
this and it worked. The only other remedy was a cath... Good luck\
GD
> Last Wednesday I had a robotic prostatectomy performed, the nerves were
> spared. I spent one day in the hospital and left with a Foley catheter in
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance for the replies.
 
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