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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / January 2004

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Why Lupron after seed implant and EBRT?

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Kurt Pearson - 02 Jan 2004 04:01 GMT
Hello All.

I had been diagnosed with T3N0M0 Prostate cancer with a Gleason of 3+4 and a
PSA of 20, back in July of last year. I have been on Lupron for the last 4
months in an attempt to shrink the prostate down in size, so I can have the
seed implant surgery.  Will on Xmas eve I had the Flow study done and it
showed that the prostate is now at 31 cm, which is a good size for the go
ahead for the seed implants.  So I will be going in for the procedure in mid
February.  I also will be having 7 weeks of EBRT after the seed implants.

I pretty much understand my treatment plan, except that I was told at my
last appointment by the Staff Specialist that I would have to stay on the
Lupron another two years.  Did not get a chance to ask my doctor why.

Anyone have any idea as to why I should have to be on Lupron for two years
after my treatment?

Also an added note: I am 46 and I had an operation for biopsy's of my lymph
nodes and seminal vesicles; which came back clean.  Also bone scan is clean.

Just really concerned as to why I have to stay on the Lupron.
Steve Kramer - 02 Jan 2004 11:17 GMT
Just from my reading of this newsgroup, I say that this type of treatment
plan is becoming popular, at least among the radiologists.  Surgeons seem to
be leaning toward robotic LRP as the next gold standard.

Regarding Lupron, I'm assuming they are throwing everything into it or three
reasons:  You are only 46 and it grows a lot faster in us youngsters, you
are a Gleason 7 which is considered bad by some, and you are a T3.  I think
he wants to make sure that he gets it all with radiation and if not, with
Lupron.  It is probably overkill, but I think you'd agree that it it's
better than the alternative possibilities.

Signature

Wishing you a Happy New Year
Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .3  .4  .8
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .3 .2  .2  .2 .3
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .1
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03

> Hello All.
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Just really concerned as to why I have to stay on the Lupron.
olfart - 02 Jan 2004 14:46 GMT
> Hello All.
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Just really concerned as to why I have to stay on the Lupron.

Hi;
I was recently diag PSA 4.8, T1, Gleason 4+4=8 and began Flutamide and
Lupron about 2 weeks ago. Will begin Radiation therapy in about 3
months for approx 5-6 weeks and then have seed implants. Dr says I
should stay on Lupron for at least a year maybe longer, but like you I
am not sure why. The one thing my Radiologist did say however is that
he does not like to do Radiation therapy after the seed implant since
it might result in too much radiation and possible damage to
surrounding organs (bladder, etc). I have read where radiation after
seed implant is a common practice so not sure which approach is the
best. My Drs seem to have a good track record with their sequence of
treatment at the Northeast GA Cancer Center. Wonder if anyone can
comment further on this.
ron - 02 Jan 2004 19:02 GMT
Hi!..It sounds like you might live in Georgia or close by.  If so, you
might want to compare the Northeast GA Cancer Center results to those
of RCOG (Radiotherapy Center of Georgia).  I had RP myself, but I read
reports from a lot of satisfied men who were treated at RCOG.  RCOG
does seeds followed by EBRT.  RCOG does publish their results so there
is peer-reviewed data available for comparison.  If you search the web
for RCOG you'll find their site as well as Don Cooley's website.  A
lot of men treated at RCOG post on Don's site.  Don also has the
abstracts of the RCOG publications on his site.  You can also find the
publications (Dr. Critz) in a PubMed search.  Like I said at the
start, maybe the best way to determine if the seeds / external
radiation sequence is important, and to compare the effectiveness of
the clinics, would be to look at their 5- and 10-year biochemical
recurrence rates...Best wishes and good health, Ron

> Hi;
> I was recently diag PSA 4.8, T1, Gleason 4+4=8 and began Flutamide and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> treatment at the Northeast GA Cancer Center. Wonder if anyone can
> comment further on this.
olfart - 02 Jan 2004 20:37 GMT
> Hi!..It sounds like you might live in Georgia or close by.  If so, you
> might want to compare the Northeast GA Cancer Center results to those
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> the clinics, would be to look at their 5- and 10-year biochemical
> recurrence rates...Best wishes and good health, Ron

Thanks for the info and site references. Looks interesting and I will
read it all. There is mention at the end of Don's article about
possible rectum or bladder damage and since the article was written in
1997 (updated 2/2003) I'm sure I will be able to find some updated
info and statson this particular risk. Thanks again.
Sandy - 02 Jan 2004 19:58 GMT
> Hi;
> I was recently diag PSA 4.8, T1, Gleason 4+4=8 and began Flutamide and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> treatment at the Northeast GA Cancer Center. Wonder if anyone can
> comment further on this.

My husband had RPP 5 months ago with a gleason 4+3 (psa of 5).
Pathology revealed positive margins and unilateral seminal vesicle
involvement.  Due to these findings he needs EBRT and hormone therapy
as well.  Our oncologist explained that he would need 2 years of
hormone therapy due to his high risk classification.  His stage is
T3b, NO, MO.

It seems that recent studies show that prostate cancer patients
receiving radiation who are considered high risk have an increased
survival rate if they take hormone therapy for longer than average
time periods.  Studies demonstrate a decrease in prostate cancer
deaths among the patients who received 2 years of hormonal therapy.

Sandi
Leonard Evens - 02 Jan 2004 17:45 GMT
> Hello All.
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Just really concerned as to why I have to stay on the Lupron.

Use of Lupron in conjunction with radiation therapy is fairly standard
now.   The Lupron is supposed to make the cancer cells more susceptible
to radiation damage.   It is not clear why the Lupron should be
continued after the radiation, but I think some radiation oncologists
believe there is more going on than just the susceptibility to
radiation.   There have been some recent studies which seem to support
their belief.   I think this is all relatively new.   If you ask your
doctor about it, he/she will probably be willing to explain.   In any
case, when you choose a doctor to treat you, you pretty much have to go
along with what the doctor recommends even if you don't find the science
behind it convincing yourself.  He/she is the expert and once you choose
which expert will treat you, you shouldn't try to impose your own opinions.

As a minor example, I noticed that Walsh recommended in cases like mine
many fewer PSA tests in the first couple of years, but my doctor still
stuck with the older schedule of every four months.   I didn't argue
with him about it although I hate the anxiety surrounding the tests, and
I just did what he said.
Kurt Pearson - 06 Jan 2004 03:47 GMT
 Thanks, everyone for your input on this; makes me feel a lot better now.

 > Hello All.
 >
 >
 >
 > I had been diagnosed with T3N0M0 Prostate cancer with a Gleason of 3+4
and a
 > PSA of 20, back in July of last year. I have been on Lupron for the last
4
 > months in an attempt to shrink the prostate down in size, so I can have
the
 > seed implant surgery.  Will on Xmas eve I had the Flow study done and it
 > showed that the prostate is now at 31 cm, which is a good size for the
go
 > ahead for the seed implants.  So I will be going in for the procedure in
mid
 > February.  I also will be having 7 weeks of EBRT after the seed
implants.
 >
 > I pretty much understand my treatment plan, except that I was told at my
 > last appointment by the Staff Specialist that I would have to stay on
the
 > Lupron another two years.  Did not get a chance to ask my doctor why.
 >
 > Anyone have any idea as to why I should have to be on Lupron for two
years
 > after my treatment?
 >
 >
 >
 > Also an added note: I am 46 and I had an operation for biopsy's of my
lymph
 > nodes and seminal vesicles; which came back clean.  Also bone scan is
clean.
 >
 > Just really concerned as to why I have to stay on the Lupron.
 >
 >
 >
 
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