Thank you so very much Alan for your excellent summary. I appreciate it
very much.
I have one additional question that has bothered my wife. She is
concerned that the urologist (who was treating me at the time) changed
me to Eligard when Lupron had done so well in shrinking the nodules in
my lungs and also lowering my psa to undetectable levels. (Since last
fall the nodules have reappeared and my psa started creeping up. I was
referred to a medical ocologist who put me o Casadex in additon to the
Eligard shot that the urologist had given me. The nodules stabalized at
last report (had not shrunk though). The PSA reduced somewhat....last
reading was 1.0
She tends to think the Lupron was better than Eligard. The urologist
had told me they were the same chemical compound.
Thanks again,
Ralph
> ...
> I have one additional question that has bothered my wife. She
> is concerned that the urologist (who was treating me at the
> time) changed me to Eligard when Lupron had done so well in
> shrinking the nodules in my lungs and also lowering my psa to
> undetectable levels.
I'm no expert, but I had thought that the urologist is right. I
believe that Lupron and Eligard are not exactly identical, but
they work the same way. They both work by stimulating the
production of a hormone which in turn stimulates the testes to
produce more testosterone. The testes actually do that for about
two weeks (the "testosterone flare" associated with hormone
therapy), after which they become overloaded and shut down.
If that theory is right, I would think the results should be the
same.
> (Since last fall the nodules have reappeared and my psa started
> creeping up. I was referred to a medical ocologist who put me
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> urologist had told me they were the same chemical compound.
> Thanks again, Ralph
The medical oncologist will know more about this than I do. When
you say "she" are you referring to the medical oncologist? Does
she plan to put you back on Lupron?
If the doctors have been taking testosterone readings they should
be able to tell if the Lupron and Eligard are working equally
well. The testosterone reading should be below 50, or maybe
below 20 (depending on who you talk to). But in any case, I
would think that if the testosterone reading under Eligard is
higher than under Lupron, then it's not working as well. If it's
the same, then it is working as well.
If they don't have readings from before, they can still take a
reading now, under Eligard, and get a good idea about whether
it's doing what it should be doing.
So I don't think it should be necessary to guess about that.
If the docs take a testosterone reading, then there is a direct
way to find out if the Eligard is doing what it's supposed to do.
It is possible that the Eligard is working fine, that your
testosterone is at "castrate level", but you are becoming hormone
refractory. Unfortunately, that eventually happens to most men.
The addition of Casodex at this point sounds pretty standard as
the next thing that doctors do. It may help for a short time, or
for a long time. There's really no way to tell. Different
individuals have different responses.
One thing I didn't mention in my posting on advanced treatments
is "second line" hormone therapy. It isn't really very new, but
it does work for many patients. Some of the drugs used include
Estradiol patches (an estrogen compound) and ketoconazole. Some
men get a few months of lowered PSA from those treatments, some
get years, and some have nasty side effects that cause them to
give them up. The medical oncologist should know about these
treatments.
Best of luck.
Alan
R L - 08 Mar 2008 17:10 GMT
Thanks again Alan. The "she" is my wife. I am inclined to think they
are essentially the same. The eligard shot is still being billed as
"Lupron Depot" at the business office.
I will see the oncologist Monday to get a
three week evaluation. I will ask him if I get the opportunity.
He seemed to be pleased three weeks ago when my MRI showed no mets in
the spine. The prostate nodules in the lungs had not grown any more
since taking the Casodex.
~Ralph
Steve Jordan - 08 Mar 2008 17:29 GMT
> I'm no expert, but I had thought that the urologist is right. I
> believe that Lupron and Eligard are not exactly identical, but
> they work the same way.
I'm certainly no chemist, but I looked up both drugs on www.rxlist.com
and found that the chemical formulae are exactly the same:
5-oxo-L-prolyl-L-histidyl-L-tryptophyl-L-seryl-L-tyrosyl-D-leucyl-L-leucyl-L-arginyl-N-ethyl-L-prolinamide
acetate (salt)
However, FWIW, Lupron is a product of TAP Pharmaceuticals; Eligard is a
product of Sanofi Aventis.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a price difference.
Regards,
Steve J
> Thank you so very much Alan for your excellent summary. I appreciate it
> very much.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Thanks again,
> Ralph
Ralph
Before you get to the chemotherapies and after Lupron/Eligard have
failed, the is transdermal estradiol therapy (Ref Ockrim studies),
Ketoconazole (low dose at 200 mg TID anf high dose at 400 mg TID) with
hydrocortisone (see studies by Trachtenberg and Strum), DES an old
drug available from compounding pharmacies and the anti-androgen
Anandron. All more tolerable then Taxotere.
Lud
I have had both for 46 months and frankly, prefer Eligard over Lupron. I
take the Lupron when I do not want to wait for the Eligaard to be ordered
up. Eligard needs to be refrigerated as the shelve life is quite a bit less
than Lupron. Small needle and given in arm rather than the buttocks.
However, stings like hell 20 seconds after administered. Because of the
smaller gauge needle it is used mostly often on bony men who do not have a
lot of meat.....
Still, my experience is less hot flashes with Eligard.
Gourd Dancer
> Thank you so very much Alan for your excellent summary. I appreciate it
> very much.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Thanks again,
> Ralph
Joe Price - 09 Mar 2008 16:38 GMT
>I have had both for 46 months and frankly, prefer Eligard over Lupron. I
>take the Lupron when I do not want to wait for the Eligaard to be ordered
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Gourd Dancer
I was switched from Eligard to Lupron when I moved from one Canadian
province to another. In my new location there is a requirement that all
needles incorporate a safety device to cap the needle after use to prevent
needle stick injuries to the doctor/nurse administering the drug. Lupron is
available in that format, Eligard isn't.
I have not noticed any difference in side-effects and both drugs reduced my
PSA to undetectable levels.
I liked that Eligard is available in a 6-month dose - Lupron is available in
doses lasting up to 4 months. I travel a fair bit and the less tied I am to
the injection clinic the better.
Lupron is injected in the muscle, Eligard is subcutaneous; in my case it was
injected above the belt line in my abdomen. In that respect, I prefer
Lupron.
Bottom line - very little difference/personal preference.
JP