On Jan 17, 10:13 pm, ccar...@xtra.co.nz wrote:

Sorry, I've made a mistake, the injections I've just started are
Zoladex.
Thanks
Cliff

I'm not a physician, and of course you have to rely on what your doctors
tell you rather than what you read on the web.  But let me tell you what
I've gleaned from my reading, and that might help you ask questions of
your doctors to improve your understanding.

First, I believe that cryosurgery is not usually recommended as a
primary treatment, but is sometimes recommended as a secondary
treatment.  See what Peter Scardino says about the subject in his
"Prostate Book".  In this connection,  you have to ask your doctors to
help you decide whether the risks of side effects such as incontinence
are worth it when balanced against the possibility of limiting the
growth of the cancer or maybe even curing it.   The other thing to ask
about is what the likelihood is that the cancer has migrated to distant
sites, in which case, no local treatment will cure it, although it might
slow it down.

Note that Scardino is pretty negative about cryotherapy, as is Patrick
Walsh, in his book, but that doesn't mean you should let their opinions
influence you more than doctors who are actually familiar with your
specific case.  Also there may have been changes in the treatment method
that the books I mentioned didn't know about.

I hope this information helps you rather than just confusing you more.

Personally, I don't think anecdotal information of this kind is likely
to be useful.  It may give you some idea of what the experience is like,
but the fact that someone did or did not benefit is not very relevant to
your chances of benefiting since there is often a wide range of outcomes
to therapies like this.  You need to try to find medical experts who are
familiar with your case and the scientific literature about procedure.

Good luck!

On January 17, Cliff wrote:

Not enough, I think.

(snip)

Anecdotes from folks should be viewed with extreme caution. They might
be interesting, but ought not be the basis for a treatment (tx) decision.

Having said that, I'll say this: I was diagnosed with an Gleason 4,5=9
tumor on one side, then a year later a small 4,4=8 tumor was discovered
on the other.

In the interim, I had undergone Cryotherapy. My case is one which could
be used as an object lesson in the need to seek experienced medical aid.
I didn't and paid the price: the bumbler failed to do a complete freeze.

The most successful aspect of the procedure was destruction of the
erectile nerves and consequent total, irreparable, impotence. This was
an expected side effect SE) of the procedure.

I had a suprapubic catheter for almost a month. When removed, I leaked
from the wound, but only when urinating. This lasted while the wound
healed, about another six weeks.

That was about all by way of SEs.

Now to the mystery: Cryosurgery, like radiation, is a local tx. With a
Gleason 9 case, there is an excellent chance that the prostate cancer
(PCa) is at least systemic. If such be the case, no local treatment will
be helpful.

Bear in mind that uros are first and foremost surgeons. The referring
uro appears to me to have run out of ideas. And what, exactly, is to be
frozen if the gland was destroyed (as it should have been) by the radiation?

I most urgently recommend that Cliff consult a genuine cancer
specialist, an oncologist. Preferably one who is well-trained in the tx
of PCa.

There are many tests that are helpful in constructing a clinical picture
of an individual's situation. Unfortunately, they are all too often
ignored by uros, who might not even be aware of them.

Some of them are:
1. Chromogranin-A (CGA): a marker for small-cell or neuroendocrine PCa,
a particularly virulent type.
2. Carcino-embryonic antigen (CEA):  a fetal antigen or protein that may
be expressed by PCa that is aggressive and often androgen independent.
3. Prostatic acid phosphatase (PAP): an enzyme or biomarker secreted by
prostate cells associated with a higher probability of disease outside
the prostate when levels are 3.0 or higher; PAP elevations suggest that
the disease is not OCD (organ confined disease).
4. Neuron-specific enolase (NSE): Similar to CGA, above.

I recommend the objective, encyclopedic and reliable information
available on the website of the Prostate Cancer Research Institute
(PCRI) at: http://prostate-cancer.org/index.html

For example, searching on cryosurgery will produce 78 entries, none of
them from equipment manufacturers.

Good luck!

Regards,

Steve J

Welcome to the group, Cliff.  I am sorry to hear of the failure of your
EBRT.  There are several unusual issues with your case.

Few people have been treated with EBRT alone as a primary treatment; at
least as late as 2005.  I think none here.  And a post-treatment biopsy is
also rare.

Less rare is Cryo.  Since I have attended this newsgroup, over 800 people
have passed through.  Of those who identified their primary treatment, only
ten chose Cryo.  Their email addresses, as they were when they visited, are
listed below.  One, Steve Jordan, is still an active participant and will
probably answer you soon (or has already).

Unfortunately, most of those listed will not give you warm feelings about
the cold treatment.  Canada Bob seems to have had better luck with Celebrex.
Frank's PSA went up after treatment and he then ended up having RRP.  Jack
in Phoenix's was just a complete failure (of course some may consider all
failures complete).  Robert Austin's PSA was rising upt to October 2004 when
we last heard from him.  Scrapio is on hormone therapy.  I don't think any
would claim success, but I could be wrong.

     robert01942@hotmail.com
     dubosky@DELETETHIS.earthlink.net
     donbfla@webtv.net
     ewnowak@adelphia.net
     vinge3@cox.net
     jsshp@earthlink.net
     RobertBob@Att.Net
     scrapiro@comcast.net
     mycroft@cox.net
     trishpet@peoplepc.com

On Jan 17, 4:13 am, ccar...@xtra.co.nz wrote:

Suggest you contact your local support group.  They can likely put you
in contact with people with similar experience locally.  In New
Zealand
check out:
http://www.prostate.org.nz

That link and others are listed here:
http://palpable-prostate.blogspot.com/2007/03/community-resources.html

---
The Palpable Prostate
http://palpable-prostate.blogspot.com