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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / November 2007

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Question re: "Biochemical Failure"

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Sy - 29 Nov 2007 11:45 GMT
"Biochemical Failure"--I have read conflicting definitions of this
phenomenon.

Can anyone elaborate?

Thanks,

Sy
Alan Meyer - 29 Nov 2007 20:45 GMT
>  "Biochemical Failure"--I have read conflicting definitions of this
> phenomenon.
>
> Can anyone elaborate?

I thought it just meant rising PSA after treatment.  Depending on
the treatment type and the practitioner, the amount and duration of
the rise that constitutes "failure" are sometimes defined
differently (e.g., it is usually defined as a higher number for
radiation than surgery, and different rad oncs disagree on the
numbers and frequency of rises that constitute failure.)

It's "biochemical" in that it's just the detection of this chemical
(PSA) in the bloodstream.  It doesn't strictly prove that a person
has cancer.  No biopsy has been done that found any cancer.  But it's
what all the clinical trials uses as an endpoint because:

1. It's easy to test.

2. It's cheap.

3. It happens long before any other symptoms appear, giving advance
warning that something isn't right.

   Alan
Steve Jordan - 30 Nov 2007 01:20 GMT
On November 29, Alan Meyer replied to Sy, in pertinent part re
"biochemical failure":

> I thought it just meant rising PSA after treatment.  

Well, yes, sorta.

But the patient should define how much of a rise he would consider to be
a "biochemical failure."

FWIW, I have my degree of PSA increase; others have theirs. Each
consider that amount to be *our* definition of "biochemical failure."

As Alan pointed out.

What was that? Did someone say "controversial"? Welcome to the world of
medicine.

Regards,

Steve J
callalily - 30 Nov 2007 02:25 GMT
>  "Biochemical Failure"--I have read conflicting definitions of this
> phenomenon.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Sy

Alan is right.  "Biochemical Failure" does not refer to failure of the
body, such as cells proliferating, as one would think..  I once
complained about the use of medical terminology that is either
damaging or incomprehensible to cancer patients in general, and used
this term as an example.  One of the replies I got was from, from MR,
a scientist.  He told me privately that "biochemical failure" is one
term that "should not have escaped the labarotory.".

>>>"You did a good job of conveying the serious semantic issues that come out of using what are basically medical terms by the general (non-medical) public. I
believe I can shed a little light on that since I have a background in
biomedical sciences. I was a microbiologist and have had considerable
interaction
with the clinical/medical community. I have been a medical school
instructor and have supervised a hospital laboratory. I have also been
involved in several
basic research projects, including one on leukemia. Of course, my own
experience as a 3-year PCa survivor has added to that.

=snip=

"One aspect of the terminology problem is that certain words are used
differently within the medical community, than they are by the non-
medical public.  It's when the terms get out into public use and
acquire emotional baggage, they become troublesome.

"The term "biochemical failure" is another example. Medically, it is
used to distinguish it from other means of detecting recurrence, such
as by biopsy or
scans. Since detecting PSA in the blood is a biochemical process, the
term has a very specific, limited clinical meaning. Again it is used
to make a very
clear distinction.

"The problem arises when the word failure shows up in public use, with
its negative implications, etc.

Leah.
Joe Price - 30 Nov 2007 04:24 GMT
> "Biochemical Failure"--I have read conflicting definitions of this
> phenomenon.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Sy

Good question.

You are quite correct that this term is loosely defined.

Statistical studies require an objective rule for classifying surgical
patients but many do not state what they mean by "biochemical failure".

I've seen a couple of studies that classify patients in the "biochemical
failure" category if post surgical PSA is greater than or equal to 0.07.
This is the lowest value I found that was used.   "Recurrence" is commonly
defined as PSA greater than or equal to 0.30 measured more than once at
least 2 weeks apart measured in the same lab.  Many studies use this
threshold to define "biochemical failure".  I found another study that used
0.40 as a threshold, another that used 0.02 and others that use 0.50 as a
breakpoint.

The definition may include the words "and rising".  A PSA of 0.22 or some
such number that is stable could conceivably be the expression of benign
prostate tissue not excised during surgery but post-operative PSA increasing
from say 0.02 to 0.15 to 0.22 might be classified as biochemical failure by
some.

Bottom line - so far as I can see, there is no single universally accepted
threshold but it is in the range of 0.07 to 0.5 and most commonly 0.3
nanograms/litre.
Joe Price - 30 Nov 2007 04:28 GMT
I just found another definition from a recent study:

"Biochemical failure was defined as two consecutive increases in PSA levels
of more than 0.02ng/ml. "

No absolute threshold, just two consecutive jumps of more than 0.02 each.

> Good question.
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> threshold but it is in the range of 0.07 to 0.5 and most commonly 0.3
> nanograms/litre.
 
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