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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / October 2007This flies in the face of prevention..........
1)I have no history of PCa in my family 2)I am relatively young 59 3)I have grown up eating tons of tomatos and blueberries..ALL MY LIFE!! (my father planted them and we ate them for decades) 4)I have had a low fat, high vegetable diet for the past 20 years 5)I have never smoked, eat red meat once a month 6)I have been married over 35 years with no additional parnters 7)I have been taking saw palmetto and evey other highly rated formulas for the last two years 8)I have started drinking pom juice the last month 9)I am 6 ft 175 lbs and healthy, never been overweight 10)My psa has doubled from 7 to 14 in 6 months and now my DRE is abnormal I see my urogolist soon to discuss treatment (I haven't had a biopsy but I can see the writing on the wall and am expecting a high gleason ; ( ) So what went wrong? I so much want to do a course of watchful waiting, and follow those guidelines. I have no symptoms and feel great. Now I have to consider invasive procedures and feeling like sh.t.....which will throw me into a severe depression. > 1)I have no history of PCa in my family > 2)I am relatively young 59 [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Now I have to consider invasive procedures and feeling like > sh.t.....which will throw me into a severe depression. You left out what your level of T is. It has been shown that the lower your level of T (but above castrate level, of course) the more aggressive the prostate cancer will be. As to why you have prostate cancer at all, in my opinion virtually all men over 50 years of age have at least one prostate cancer cell within them. Ed Friedman > 1)I have no history of PCa in my family > 2)I am relatively young 59 [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Now I have to consider invasive procedures and feeling like > sh.t.....which will throw me into a severe depression. Hello Skeptic, You have done everything right to prevent PCa except explain what has been your PSA history. How did it get to 7.0 ng/ml by age 59? Have you had a free-PSA ratio test? Have you had tests to rule out infection or inflammation. Is your prostate gland enlarged? I realize that you are reacting to an increase in PSA, but remember that PSA IS NOT cancer specific and until other things that affect PSA leak into the bloodstream are ruled out, you should be alert and questioning cause. Wish you the very best outcome, RalphV www.pcainaz.org/phpbb > 1)I have no history of PCa in my family > 2)I am relatively young 59 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 5)I have never smoked, eat red meat once a month > 6)I have been married over 35 years with no additional parnters <snip> > 10)My psa has doubled from 7 to 14 in 6 months and now my DRE is abnormal > So what went wrong? This may be difficult to accept, but nothing went wrong. The occurrence of PCa, or other forms of cancer, is a random event, subject to the laws of probability. Our behavior can affect our chances, but not assure us of a 100% safe outcome. A group of, say, a thousand men, following the regimen you describe, would expect to experience a significantly lower incidence of prostate cancer, as well as a number of other bad things. But the incidence would not be zero. Sadly, bad things happen to good people, as your case illustrates. Best wishes for a low Gleason and an optimal recovery, Ernie Nothing went wrong. What is what is. The universe does have a bit of chaos in the perceived order. "sh.t Happens". The toss of the cards has a randomness beyond what we do to stack the deck. If you did not do the steps you mentioned, your prostate issue may have developed earlier and faster than what actually occurred. I too felt a sense of frustration and existential depression upon my diagnosis. I took my plight as an opportunity to manage my destiny (or at least my reaction to). I thought that while I am alive and cognizant, I would research my options and use my power of choice to affect the most positive change I was able to do. Life does not come with a guarantee. We take our best shot and hope to influence our destiny even though we can not control it. Good luck with the process of researching your options. Keep monitoring this group, there are some caring and knowledgeable people here that can help you steer your way through the maze of information. Peter > 1)I have no history of PCa in my family > 2)I am relatively young 59 [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Now I have to consider invasive procedures and feeling like > sh.t.....which will throw me into a severe depression. Thank you all very much for responding.....we know there aren't any real answers to these questions but it's reassuring to read opinions and anecdotes. It's better thqn keeping it bottled up i guess. Thankx. Anyway, I never had a psa test until i was 58 and it was 5, then proceeded to have like 6 more and they all hovered from 5-7 with normal dre's now in the last 6 months took a jump. I never had anything else tested but i'm sure my urologist will have only one thng on his mind... RP. I'm even afraid to have eth biposy, as I believe ht myth it might spread whatever I've got into the bloodstream.. My mind is working overtime on this and I just want it to end. I have to take benzo tranq's every day just to keep from going crazy...and this is before any treatment. > Thank you all very much for responding.....we know there aren't any > real answers to these questions but it's reassuring to read opinions [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I have to take benzo tranq's every day just to keep from going > crazy...and this is before any treatment. Slow down! You are feeling the panic we all felt. The biopsy won't cause any cancer in your prostate to spread. Otherwise all the guys in this group would have metastatic cancer, and we don't. Even if the biopsy shows that you have prostate cancer, you have time to read more and get comfortable with the options available to you. At your age, you may well choose to go for an active treatment (surgery, radiation, etc.) And there is the possibility of some side effects from any treatment you pursue. But as the guys in this group will tell you, they are likely to be quite manageable and to lessen over time. Ask yourj doctor or hospital about face-to-face PCa support groups in your area. You may find it is very helpful to talk personally to guys who have walked the path you may be about to follow. Flip the situation around. Say it was your wife who was told by her doctor that she might have breast cancer. Wouldn't you do whatever you could to help her calm down, focus on the best possible outcome and stay optimistic? Well, if you would do it for her, why not do that for yourself? Alex Thanks again....and for the reality check. I will schedule the biopsy asap and hope for the best. On October 23, "skeptic" replied to Alex: > Thanks again....and for the reality check. I will schedule the > biopsy asap and hope for the best. I recommend that the uro be instructed to provide anesthetic for the procedure. Some say it didn't hurt, others say it was agonizing. I say, why gamble? There is nothing to be gained by being macho. Furthermore, if the patient is not tensing up it makes the uro's job easier. If PCa is reported by the local pathologist, the specimens should be reviewed by an expert path lab that specializes in PCa. A list: Bostwick Laboratories [800] 214-6628 Dianon Laboratories [800] 328-2666 (select 5 for client services) Jon Epstein (Hopkins) [410] 955-5043 or [410] 955-2162 David Grignon (Michigan) [313] 745-2520 Jon Oppenheimer (Tennessee) [888] 868-7522 UroCor, Inc. [800] 411-1839 Regards, Steve J “Prostate cancer is often described as a curable disease made incurable by late diagnosis." --David Wright, Advanced PCa patient East Comiston, Scotland > 1)I have no history of PCa in my family > 2)I am relatively young 59 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > 8)I have started drinking pom juice the last month > 9)I am 6 ft 175 lbs and healthy, never been overweight Nobody... NOBODY... knows what causes PCa or what contributes to PCa except that 10% of people whose father had PCa before the age of 50 have a greater change of PCa. Blacks are about twice as likely and orientals are about half as likely to get PCa. The rest of it is a lot of speculation, study, and theory, but nothing has been proven. You can extend that to supplements. Again, lots of speculation, study, and theory, but nothing proven. > 10)My psa has doubled from 7 to 14 in 6 months and now my DRE is > abnormal > > I see my urogolist soon to discuss treatment (I haven't had a biopsy > but I can see the writing on the wall and am expecting a high gleason ; I cannot imagine a scenario by which a 59-year-old man in the Year 2007 would have a PSA of 7.0 without a biopsy. That's horrendous. Are you sure of the decimals? You have a doubling time of six months. In my humble opinion, you need not see your uro soon. You need a biopsy immediately. And, if your uro let you go from 7 to 14 in 6 months, you need not ever see him again. > I so much want to do a course of watchful waiting, and follow those > guidelines. Let's see. That's 28 in April 2008; 56 in a year; 112.... you'd be dead before Social Security. > I have no symptoms and feel great. I don't know that statistics on this, but I believe about 90% of us were asymptomatic. Maybe more. > Now I have to consider invasive procedures and feeling like > sh.t.....which will throw me into a severe depression. If you expect it, I guess it will. However, if you do have aggressive (high Gleason) cancer, your treatment may not be invasive. I'm guessing it will be radiation and/or hormone therapy. Let us hope you still have invasive treatment as an option. ?snip >> )My psa has doubled from 7 to 14 in 6 months and now my DRE is >> abnormal [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> Now I have to consider invasive procedures and feeling like >> sh.t.....which will throw me into a severe depression. Hi Skeptik Honestly, you don't need to panic now, or if you read a high Gleason. I mean it -not just being reassuring. My Gleason was 9 more than two years ago. It's now well under control - wiped out in the prostate. I've had some side effects which lasted for a few months and were quite manageable. I'm 80 next month not a fit tough guy like you seem to be. But I'm generally in fine fettle currently with little in the way of side effects.. I was very fortunate in getting non-invasive (non-surgery) HIFU but if that is not available to you there are a number of new techniques now on scene where computer control of surgery -and radiation -makes everything much more accurate. They will only hit the mark and leave everything else untouched. May I kindly suggest that one great help in controlling your worries will be to get busy in your own interests. Get on line. Get yourself informed about what non-invasive procedures, latest techniques are available. Start with asking your oncos the direct question. After that start reading through past posts here, and then Google away. It gets interesting! Go on -off you go Skeptik! You had a great President who said once at a dark time for the world: "The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself." Some of the truest words or wisdom ever, applying to so much in life. If and when treatment starts Skeptik you'll wonder what you were worrying so much about, I'm sure. It's the waiting and fearing. So instead get busy (Note: I did tell you about my HIFU (ultrasound) experiences in reply to your post of 19th October.) Again, THANK YOU EVERYONE for your responses....they are really helpful. Also to jloomis, whom I tried to email but it bounced back.....your words were most encouraging. I will keep everyone informed of how things move along...so we will have one more statistic to draw conslusions from....even if I am that statistic. Sorry, for your troubles....I have been in your shoes. I was dx'xd when I was 49. I had a PSA of 7. I had a little lump on the DRE test.......... The biopsy will not spread the cancer. It is no fun, but will give good guidlines for a treatment plan. You have to consider yourself fortunate that we have facilities to find and treat this disease. It is not your fault, or anyones......It is a card you have been dealt, and now, with your superior intelligence, and rational you can go to the right Dr.s to help you out. You may have been dealt a card and you will find out that you will get even stronger when you confront this issue. I wanted to jump off the bridge in town, I cried when I told my wife, i thought of running infront of traffic. I chose a better path though......I fought the bugger. Yes, I stood proud and faced the reality......told my friends etc. I had RP in 1999, I get a yearly PSA and it is lees than 0.01 I do not wet myself at all, and do get great erections and better with a small 25 mgs of viagra. You have lots to live for, and if you need any support or encouragement, let me know. I mean that..... jloomis > 1)I have no history of PCa in my family > 2)I am relatively young 59 [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Now I have to consider invasive procedures and feeling like > sh.t.....which will throw me into a severe depression. > 1)I have no history of PCa in my family > 2)I am relatively young 59 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > So what went wrong? As others have pointed out, there is nothing you can do to prevent prostate cancer with absolute certainty. The most significant risk factor, the fact that you are a man, is something you can't do anything about. The measures you took may have reduced the likelihood of getting prostate cancer, but remember that, in the US, one man i n six will develop prostate cancer some time in life. Even if you cut the risk in half, you would still have one chance in 12. On the other hand, you may have delayed the development of prostate cancer, and you are certainly in a better position to deal with the effects of treatment. Also, the major side effects of treatment such as impotence are less likely for a man your age. For example, some experienced surgeons can avoid permanent impotence in over 80 percent of their patients for men your age. As others have suggested, if it turns out that you do have prostate cancer, try to educate yourself as best you can about the subject. I recommend the books by Sardino (The Prostate) and Walsh (Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer). Also, look around for the most highly q ualified physicians you can find to treat you, and question them about their results for men your age. Don't rely much on anecdotal data, and remnember that prostate cancer is a complex disease. An awful lot depends on the details of each individual case, such as age, specifics of the diagnosis, etc. Good luck! > I so much want to do a course of watchful waiting, and follow those > guidelines. > I have no symptoms and feel great. > Now I have to consider invasive procedures and feeling like > sh.t.....which will throw me into a severe depression. > 1)I have no history of PCa in my family > 2)I am relatively young 59 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > So what went wrong? Have you ever heard the statement "Health nuts are going to feel foolish in a hospital, dying from nothing?" Why do those who believe in predestination look to both the left and right before crossing a street? Things happen over which we have absolutely no control - floods, fires, earthquakes, black sheep in the family.....and cancer. If anyone ever answers the question "So what went wrong?" we will eliminate every disease and disaster from the face of this Earth. Hello, Skeptic: As others have said, nothing went wrong. We just don't yet know the things that cause PCa. But keep in mind that your healthy lifestyle probably has positioned you well to endure whatever treatment you select, and come out on the other side healthier and with fewer side effects. --charlie  Signature6/2006 PSA 5.2, DRE suspicious 7/2006 Biopsy: 2 of 10 positive, Gleason 7(3+4) 11/2006 LRP: Clear margins PSA < 0.01 on 1/2007, 3/2007, 6/2007, 9/2007 so far, so good ... Hello, skeptic: I know this sucks, but you didn't do anything wrong. Please keep in mind that while living a healthy life style does not guarantee prevention of any particular disease, it does increase the chances that you'll be able better endure symptoms, treatments, and side effects. So, all those things you listed that you have done are not wasted. Quite the contrary. --charlie Signature6/2006 PSA 5.2, DRE suspicious 7/2006 Biopsy: 2 of 10 positive, Gleason 7(3+4) 11/2006 LRP: Clear margins PSA < 0.01 on 1/2007, 3/2007, 6/2007, 9/2007 so far, so good ... I'll probably sound like some heath nut but there may be a way of reducing the rate of cancer in our population. Grow your own food and raise your own livestock. "Don't" use the pesticides and chemicals that our commercial producers use. Trying to maximize production forces producers to use growth hormones and pesticides amongst other chemicals that enters the food chain and our bodies ability to remove and repair the damage from all those assaults is overwhelmed. They know the cause of cancer,they just won't do anything about it because of the money corporations and investors make from it. Why is cancer the leading cause of death in China? pollution. Ron S. Clarification on "What Did I do Wrong?" The point I was really trying to make is, the media will have us scrambling for the latest study results: red wine, blueberries, tomatos-lycopene, pumpkin seeds, pomegranate juice, saw palmetto, even watermeleon! and don't forget exercise. Well I honest-to-god really did ALL that! And, apparently without any benefits at all :( So, I know my post came across as a naive whining sounding complaint, but really it's an indictment of the false hope the media gives us by printing this stuff. Why don't they shut up about "cures" until there's proof? They use freedom of the press as an excuse but the reality is they give false hope to people and play with their minds and emotions...and perhaps even prevent traditional medical care...as I was considering. My biopsy is tomorrow. May hope be with you still. Do what you can, do what you must. Life never came with a warrantee. Aim. Take your best shot. The benefits you seek are in the knowledge that you tried and that it could be worse if you didn't. GOOD LUCK TOMORROW!!!!! > Clarification on "What Did I do Wrong?" > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > perhaps even prevent traditional medical care...as I was considering. > My biopsy is tomorrow.
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