Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / August 2007
Latest PSA test
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limey - 28 Aug 2007 20:53 GMT Well, today was somewhat of a shock. Henry gets a Lupron shot every four months. His initial PSA was 66.7 in August 2006, 0.6 by December, 0.2 by April 2007 and now, August 2007, it has gone up to 1.7 (different lab, though).
He had another Lupron shot this morning. The doctor was unavailable but the nurse practitioner gave Henry prescriptions for Casodex pending the M.D.s approval.
What effects can he expect from the combined Lupron/Casodex treatment? And how significant is the rise in the PSA?
I appreciate any comments anyone has.
Dora
 Signature limey113@yahoo.com
Steve Jordan - 28 Aug 2007 21:45 GMT On August 28, Dora wrote:
> Well, today was somewhat of a shock. Henry gets a Lupron shot every > four months. His initial PSA was 66.7 in August 2006, 0.6 by December, > 0.2 by April 2007 and now, August 2007, it has gone up to 1.7 (different > lab, though). The difference in labs might explain the difference in results. Especially if the labs employ different measurement techniques/lab regimens. It is very important to maintain consistency in lab methods.
> He had another Lupron shot this morning. The doctor was unavailable > but the nurse practitioner gave Henry prescriptions for Casodex pending > the M.D.s approval. > > What effects can he expect from the combined Lupron/Casodex treatment? > And how significant is the rise in the PSA? The rise in PSA result may or may not be significant. Because a different lab was used, there is no way to be certain. Moreover, one lab result is not very meaningful. It is results over time that can prove useful. As 'tis said, one robin does not make a spring.
So far as side effects (SEs) are concerned, that, too, is uncertain because each of us is different. For instance, I was on Casodex early on to prevent PSA flare when Zoladex was started. I noted no SEs at all, but that is meaningless so far as Henry is concerned. BTW, Henry might very well have been prescribed Casodex when starting Lupron for the same reason. He should have been.
Casodex (bicalutimide) is an anti-androgen, which is to say that its action is different from Lupron. It blocks T that is produced by the adrenal cortexes from attaching to cell receptors in the prostate.
The rxlist section is at http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/bicalutamide.htm
The possible SEs are noted at http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/bicalutamide_ad.htm
Good luck.
BTW, is the doctor a urologist or a cancer specialist, an oncologist?
Regards,
Steve J
Bernieboy - 29 Aug 2007 01:36 GMT Dora,
I monitor this group and rarely respond as the other gurus cover the subjects quite well. In your case I have to respond......
I echo what Steve J has said - using different Labs DOES have an impact on the results. For reasons I won't go into I had two PSA tests done on the same day analysed at different Labs - no medical intervention between tests (e.g. DRE etc.). One result was 74 and the other 70 (> 5% variance). I took this up with the medicos and they told me that this was quite possible/likely.
Also, it's the trend of PSA over time that matters most not any occassional "blip". I have been monitoring mine using MS Excel and the graph over the last two years makes for interesting reading !
SEs? I have been on Zoladex for two years and only moans are hot- flushes and tiredness. I had no SEs from RT and I am getting away lightly on current Chemo regime as thinning hair is the only impact.
Hope that helps
Bernie
PS Steve, isn't the bird a swallow not a robin? - Sorry to be pedantic :-)
limey - 29 Aug 2007 02:08 GMT > Dora, > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Steve, isn't the bird a swallow not a robin? - Sorry to be > pedantic :-) Thanks, Bernie and Steve. My husband and I had the same thought. He was forced to go to a different lab this time because our insurance company and our usual lab parted company; therefore, we suspected there might be a difference in readings.
Dora
limey - 29 Aug 2007 21:05 GMT > Dora, > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Steve, isn't the bird a swallow not a robin? - Sorry to be > pedantic :-) Oops. My reply to your and Steve Jordan's posts didn't show up at this end. Here it is again, just in case:
Thanks, Bernie and Steve. My husband and I had the same thought. He was forced to go to a different lab this time because our insurance company and our usual lab parted company; therefore, we suspected there might be a difference in readings.
Dora
Steve Jordan - 29 Aug 2007 21:12 GMT On August 28, Bernie wrote:
(ka-snip)
> PS > Steve, isn't the bird a swallow not a robin? - Sorry to be > pedantic :-) Well, so long as it isn't a vulture......
Regards,
Steve J
Steve Kramer - 29 Aug 2007 09:39 GMT > Well, today was somewhat of a shock. Henry gets a Lupron shot every four > months. His initial PSA was 66.7 in August 2006, 0.6 by December, 0.2 by [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I appreciate any comments anyone has. I'm sorry to hear this, Dora. But, Casodex should put it in its tracks for awhile.
I had to add Casodex in 2006. My PSA has been undetectable ever since.
It also caused me to immediately gain 15 pounds and it seemed there was nothing I could do to stop it. However, a year later, I've lost 22 pounds without trying all that hard. I would say that I have a little more fatigue in my legs, but I'm still walking 3-5 miles a day, 3-5 times a week. More importantly, though not as important for Henry, I am still working full time in a fairly active job.
With his Gleason, how long Casodex will work is up-in-the air, but I think he'll be okay for a time. Just make sure he stays active.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years Casodex added daily 07/06 PSA <0.04, <0.05, <0.04 (06/12/2007) Non Illegitimi Carborundum
limey - 29 Aug 2007 21:13 GMT limey wrote:
>> Well, today was somewhat of a shock. Henry gets a Lupron shot >> every four months. His initial PSA was 66.7 in August 2006, 0.6 by [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > With his Gleason, how long Casodex will work is up-in-the air, but I > think he'll be okay for a time. Just make sure he stays active. Thanks for the reassuring words, Steve. We'll have to wait and see how the Casodex works out, if the uro confirms Henry going on it.
Fortunately, Henry has always been strong and active and still insists he can (and does) do pretty well everything he always has, except he tires easily (what the heck, we're both 83!!). In April, the uro told him he had a year. I don't believe it.
I still can't persuade him to go to a urologist. He's being pretty fatalistic about the whole thing.
Hanging in there, Dora
Steve Jordan - 29 Aug 2007 21:28 GMT On August 29, Dora replied in pertinent part to Steve K:
> .....In April, the uro told > him he had a year. I don't believe it. > > I still can't persuade him to go to a urologist. He's being pretty > fatalistic about the whole thing. Not sure I follow, sorry. Did he have a uro in April and now should see another? BTW, any medic who guesses like that (and that's what it is when dealing with such a time period) should be sent packing. It borders on cruelty.
The reason I asked upthread about uro or oncologist is that I don't see what a surgeon, which is all most uros are, can be of any benefit at this point. I recommend seeing a cancer specialist, a medical oncologist, ASAP. Preferably one who is well-trained in treatment of prostate cancer.
Regards,
Steve J
"I believe it is a mistake for many urologists to be involved in the endocrine therapy of prostate cancer. Let me state why. Urologists are surgeons and many times surgeons rush to a treatment without really understanding what they are doing." -- Stephen B. Strum, MD
limey - 30 Aug 2007 01:27 GMT > On August 29, Dora replied in pertinent part to Steve K: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > treatment without really understanding what they are doing." > -- Stephen B. Strum, MD Steve, my error. I said I couldn't persuade him to go to a urologist. Obviously, I meant an oncologist. I also agree with your comments. Since my husband reads the newsgroup I'll keep quiet for once.
Dora
Steve Kramer - 30 Aug 2007 01:20 GMT > Thanks for the reassuring words, Steve. We'll have to wait and see how > the Casodex works out, if the uro confirms Henry going on it. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I still can't persuade him to go to a urologist. He's being pretty > fatalistic about the whole thing. He is well past the average lifespan of an American male, he wasn't diagnosed until he had a PSA of 66+, the worst Stage and the worse Gleason. He's got good reasons to be fatalistic. No matter how you look at it, he's not going to make it to the century mark. But, dammit, he doesn't have to give in either. There is three standard types of hormone therapy and they can be combined and adjusted by a competent oncologist. There is much better chemo out there and good meds to help a man handle it better. And there is always prayer, and fun, an laughing, and all those things that can help you live longer. Especially if he's the active sort.
BTW, he is beyond a urologist. He needs a medical oncologist as his primary and occasionally a radiological oncologist for palliative local treatments.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years Casodex added daily 07/06 PSA <0.04, <0.05, <0.04 (06/12/2007) Non Illegitimi Carborundum
limey - 30 Aug 2007 01:32 GMT > He is well past the average lifespan of an American male, he wasn't > diagnosed until he had a PSA of 66+, the worst Stage and the worse [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > primary and occasionally a radiological oncologist for palliative > local treatments. He will read your comments. Maybe you can convince him. I can't.
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