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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / May 2007

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Copied from a Jaqui Strax post in the PPL Mailing list

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Hugh Kearnley - 22 May 2007 10:30 GMT
Howard and all,
I'm sure Dr. Myers will respond to this news about lycopene in talks
to support groups and in his publications. He wrote to me with some
disapproval about the news I posted, to say that this is just an
isolated study with serious design problems. "How do you weigh this
as superior to earlier, positive studies?" Dr. Myers said that the
media release is especially distorted. "While beta carotene and
lycopene are carotinoids, their biology is very, very different.
There are no lab or clinical studies that would support extending the
concerns about beta carotene to lycopene or lutein, for that matter.
For example, lutein is commonly used to help manage macular
degeneration. Would you recommend this stop?"

Really, I don't want to recommend anything, I just try to report what
researchers says month to month and year to year. I take lutein (and
bilberry) myself on the advise of my optician, and I wouldn't
discourage others from following their physicians' advice. But what
Dr. Myers said to me has pushed me think further.

Whether from tomatoes, watermelon, strawberries of any food source, I
wouldn't recommend avoiding lycopene or cutting back on these foods
as part of a healthy diet. Not only has nothing been shown to be
wrong with eating those foods, other recent studies continue to
indicate that tomatoes are protective and more so with broccoli). One
fairly recent study found that women who eat tomato products
regularly may be at lower risk of heart disease. Women with the
highest amounts of lycopene in their blood had half the risk of
cardiovascular disease seen in those with low levels.

However, this is precisely the type of evidence not found in the
recent study, which found that lycopene levels in the blood of men
diagnosed with prostate cancer were closely similar to levels in men
of the same age and similar background who were fortunate enough not
to have prostate cancer. Apparently lycopene did no harm and no good
re: risk of developing prostate cancer.

I've featured some reports on protective effects of lycopene and
tomatoes on my site for close to 10 years. So I am obliged to carry
this negative report now. I requested an off-print of the article
from the authors and will send it in .pdf to anyone who wants to read
it in full. In a chart of Median and Range of serum carotenoid
concentrations (Mg/dL) in prostate cancer cases and controls, the
results for LYCOPENE alone go like this:

Cases (n = 692)
Lycopene levels
Median: 64.4
10th-90th percentile: 30.5-110.1

Controls (n = 844)
Lycopene levels
Median: 62.2
10th-90th percentile: 30.5-108.2
p value 0.31

Wouldn't we expect more men diagnosed with PCa to show low levels of
lycopene in their blood and more men without the disease to show high
levels?

Provisos can be added. For example, the best advise to men has always
been to consume their tomatoes with a some olive oil. A recent study
(2006) found that "Serum lycopene level changes with dietary lycopene
intake irrespective of the amount of fat intake. However, a diet high
in olive oil and rich in lycopene may decrease the risk of coronary
heart disease by improving the serum lipid profile compared with a
high-carbohydrate, low-fat, lycopene-rich diet."
http://tinyurl.com/3abke8

Well, the study under discussion does not seem to have considered
serum lipid profile in addition to lycopene levels. Could it be that
few men in this study consumed any significant amounts of what we
would consider to be "healthy" fats and oils?  The authors mention
fat in summarizing previous evidence suggesting that lycopene would
be effective:
   A recent meta-analysis summarizing studies published up to 2003
   reported a 10% to 20% reduction in prostate cancer risk with high
   tomato and lycopene intake, weighted strongly by findings from the
   large Health Professionals Follow-up Study. More recently, we
   prospectively assessed the intake of >25 tomato-related food items in
   almost 30,000 men in the Prostate, Lung, Colorectal, and Ovarian
   (PLCO) cohort, and found no overall association of dietary intake of
   tomatoes and lycopene with prostate cancer [1,338 cases, odds ratio
   (OR), 5th vs. 1st quintile of lycopene intake 0.95; 95% confidence
   intervals (95% CI), 0.79-1.13], although inverse associations were
   suggested for some processed tomato products commonly cooked with
   fat. Because the bioavailability of tomato-derived lycopene, an
   extremely lipophilic antioxidant, varies profoundly with heat and fat
   application, some studies have relied on blood concentrations as an
   integrated measure of lycopene intake and absorption. Overall,
   results from these blood-based studies are inconclusive; some of the
   larger studies suggest the preventive effects of lycopene in
   subgroups with aggressive disease, older men, or men without a family
   history of prostate cancer.

Perhaps it weill turn out thattheir own study was inadequate to find
a "tomato  effect." But on the face of it, it seems to me that what
they have shown, if nothing more, is that for the general population,
taking lycopene supplements and eating tomato sauce offer no
significant protections from prostate cancer.

And with that, I wish you all plenty of tomatoes for taste and
enjoyment and all he good foods that go with them!  And because
(unlike the finding on beta-carotene), nothing so far suggests that
tomatoes do any harm whatsoever.

best
Jacquie
http://psa-rising.com
Hugh Kearnley - 23 May 2007 19:57 GMT
It seems that some people were alarmed/annoyed by my copying the substance
of Jacqui Strax's message in the PPML mailing list, quoting breach of
confidentiality - and have reported me. I was contacted by the PPML site
admin and asked to explain my actions.
I did so, quoting an email exchange between Jacqui and myself (whom I
exchange emails with on a flying basis) where she gives me explicit
permission to copy and post to this group - including all and any follow-up
materials and indeed anything that might make a contribution to this group -
where people might not be subscribed to the PPML mailing lists and possibly
miss something important.
PPML admin have seen Jacqui's email to me giving permission and that has
been satisfactorilly resolved.
Of course, what I might think is important, others may think is trivial.
Many of my posts here ARE trivial, but I write from my gut - NOT my head.
(Ok - so I DONT think! I dont give two hoots what anyone thinks about me,
I'm too old and ugly to shed tears for them)
I do not feel that I breached confidentiality, having taken care to edit out
any references to individual cases and names.
If anyone feels that I did breach etiquette, please email me separately and
not make this a thread.
Thankyou for listening, and bloody ANNOYED now.
Hugh Kearnley.
jstrax@comcast.net - 23 May 2007 20:37 GMT
Hugh and all,

I guess I need to jump in here! Let's not get annoyed over this. Hugh
stripped out the private emails addresses., for which I thank him.
Looks like this is a fairly active group. As far as lists go I've been
involved for about 10 years with The Circle, formerly on
prostatepointers.org. Those groups currently server down and in
transition to support on another server. For the same period I've been
a member of PPML (not counting a few spells of being banned or "on
report" in earlier years for hot-headed wrangling). psa-rising.com I
set up in 1997 and continue to publish with news almost daily.

For the Provenge story see the blog under keyowrd Provenge

http://tinyurl.com/yu3evj

http://www.psa-rising.com/living/ section for testimony at the FDA
meeting plus company releases in http://psa-rising.com/wiredbird/
jstrax@comcast.net - 23 May 2007 20:55 GMT
Hugh and all,
I guess I need to jump in here! Let's not get annoyed over this. Hugh
stripped out the private emails addresses., for which I thank him.
Looks like this is a fairly active group. As far as lists go I've been
involved for about 10 years with The Circle, formerly on
prostatepointers.org. Those groups currently server down and in
transition to another server. For the same period I've been a member
of PPML (not counting a few spells of being banned or "on report" in
earlier years for hot-headed wrangling).

As for www.psa-rising.com I set it up in 1997 and continue to publish
with news almost daily. Re: Provenge I've been covering it via press
releases and abstracts mostly. My husband, who was dx'd in '91 and
died in 2002, participated in clinical trials from 1994 on, considered
Provenge trial around '99 but it wasn't possible for him and the
efficacy for advanced PCa didn't sound promising at that time. For
recent, see e.g.
http://tinyurl.com/yu3evj
http://www.psa-rising.com/living/
http://psa-rising.com/wiredbird/

Other vaccines are in development as Steve  M (hi Steve!!!) pointed
out here. Notably GVAX
http://tinyurl.com/2cfp93
Also
TROVAX
http://tinyurl.com/2y6d93
http://tinyurl.com/2gmbvg

Would anyone here who is eligible consider entering the ongoing
Provenge trial, which would give you a 2 out of 3 chance of receiving
the vaccine?
http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct/show/NCT00065442?order=1

A long way from tomatoes.
best
Jacquie
jstrax@comcast.net - 23 May 2007 20:56 GMT
Hugh and all,
I guess I need to jump in here! Let's not get annoyed over this. Hugh
stripped out the private emails addresses., for which I thank him.
Looks like this is a fairly active group. As far as lists go I've been
involved for about 10 years with The Circle, formerly on
prostatepointers.org. Those groups currently server down and in
transition to another server. For the same period I've been a member
of PPML (not counting a few spells of being banned or "on report" in
earlier years for hot-headed wrangling).

As for www.psa-rising.com I set it up in 1997 and continue to publish
with news almost daily. Re: Provenge I've been covering it via press
releases and abstracts mostly. My husband, who was dx'd in '91 and
died in 2002, participated in clinical trials from 1994 on, considered
Provenge trial around '99 but it wasn't possible for him and the
efficacy for advanced PCa didn't sound promising at that time. For
recent, see e.g.
http://tinyurl.com/yu3evj
http://www.psa-rising.com/living/
http://psa-rising.com/wiredbird/

Other vaccines are in development as Steve  M (hi Steve!!!) pointed
out here. Notably GVAX
http://tinyurl.com/2cfp93
Also
TROVAX
http://tinyurl.com/2y6d93
http://tinyurl.com/2gmbvg

Would anyone here who is eligible consider entering the ongoing
Provenge trial, which would give you a 2 out of 3 chance of receiving
the vaccine?
http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct/show/NCT00065442?order=1

A long way from tomatoes.
best
Jacquie
Hugh Kearnley - 23 May 2007 21:39 GMT
THANKYOU Jacqui!
You're a DOLL.
I thank you for your help - sincerely.
I seldom tell from my heart - YOU are a Warrior. A LEADER in what we need.
I'm sitting in tears now, glad that people like yourself are here to provide
an unceasing service so unselfishly, making your time so freely to help
educate us and keep us up to date with your site. I'm sorry this episode had
distracted you from your main interests - beating prostate cancer.
All my Love and best wishes,
Your Friend,
Hughie.
Charles Clausen - 24 May 2007 20:41 GMT
Hugh,

Aw, we all get a little parnoid sometimes - I know I certainly
do.  :-)

No one from this group "reported" you. I occasionally browse this
newsgroup, and just happened to notice that you had posted Jacquie's
message. At the time I contacted you I was unaware that you had
obtained prior permission from Jacquie to post the message. Inasmuch
as you had permission, in my judgment the post was certainly o.k., and
I have no doubts whatsoever about this.

For the reasons I described in my message to you, I just wanted to be
sure that you were aware about protocols that we ask people to observe
on our email discussion list:

------------------------------------
I noticed that yesterday you posted Jacquie Strax's PPML message about
lycopene to the PCa newsgroup. I don't think she minds, but as a
general principal, posts from the PPML shouldn't be posted to other
groups, as this tends to compromise confidentiality a bit - though
admittedly, not much.

Archives of the newsgroups are openly displayed, while PPML messages
are accessible only if an individual subscribes to the PPML. Newsgroup
messages used to be displayed in search engines results {I don't know
if this is still the case), while PPML messages are blocked from being
displayed.

Jacquie's message contained no personal info, so the quotation cannot
really matter, and perhaps might be helpful, as it may help to make
readers of newsgroups aware of her website.
------------------------------------

As far as I know, no one was, as you said, "alarmed/annoyed", and my
intention was just to clarify our policy, not to "ask you to explain
your actions".

My apologies if this situation has this has caused you discomfort.

And may I say, as you said in your second message - for many years, I
have also have always greatly appreciated Jacquie's very considerable
contributions to providing information to the community of folks who
are coping with prostate cancer.

Best wishes,
Charles Clausen
PPML Facilitator
http://ppml.acor.org
 
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