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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / May 2007

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Need people to interview for a Prostate Cancer Documentary

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goodprostate@gmail.com - 12 May 2007 06:22 GMT
Hi,

We are looking for two types of men to interview for a documentary
from an award-winning documentary filmmaker:

1) men who had preventional treatment by surgery or radiation (not
chemo) and are NOT HAPPY with what has happened as a result, even if
the cancer went away.  Maybe the doctor did not reveal the extent of
the side effects, made you choose surgery on a very quick basis where
you felt there was no choice, or never revealed to you any other types
of treatment.

or

2) men who used alternative therapy to treat their prostate cancer and
are very happy with how it has turned out.

We are based out of LA, but will come to you to interview you. If you
feel you have a story to tell, please email me at
goodprostate@gmail.com.

Thanks for sharing your stories,
Taylor

P.S. IF YOU ARE IN DETROIT OR CHICAGO, PLEASE EMAIL IMMEDIATELY!!!
DoubleOwSeven - 12 May 2007 06:43 GMT
Sounds like you plan on making a very biased documentary.  You are
going to get people who used conventional treatment but who didn't
like the outcome and compare them to people who used "alternative"
therapy and liked the outcome.  You must plan on selling it to Faux
News.

>Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
>P.S. IF YOU ARE IN DETROIT OR CHICAGO, PLEASE EMAIL IMMEDIATELY!!!
I.P. Freely - 12 May 2007 07:30 GMT
> Sounds like you plan on making a very biased documentary.  You are
> going to get people who used conventional treatment but who didn't
> like the outcome and compare them to people who used "alternative"
> therapy and liked the outcome.

I was with you 100% right up to the next statement, which I refuse to
ignore because too much is at stake.

> You must plan on selling it to Faux News.

Fox News was declared by a left-wing, multi-university think tank study
based out of UCLA to be the least biased news network on the air and
Fox's Brit Hume as the most balanced reporter on the air. Folks who were
suckered in by the asinine "Outfoxed" video need to actually watch Fox
News for a few weeks before believing its criminally lying (as in libel
and slander) detractors. You can't otherwise even imagine the number of
times major "news" sources are proven by their own false stories to lie
about Fox's shows and journalists and to lie (including lies of
omission) to their listeners about the news. Why do you think Fox News
is blowing all other cable news networks -- combined -- completely out
of the water in the ratings? It's because they vett and back up their
facts, because they let people from both sides of the issues debate them
on the air and let us decide who's right, and because tapes of their
broadcasts disprove claims leveled against them almost daily. I observe
many hours of news, analysis, and discussion thereof from many sources
every day, and truly believe that anyone not watching Fox is not getting
the whole story because *SO* many stories backed up in depth on Fox do
not even appear in any other media until -- if even then -- Fox directly
challenges them by name to actually cover the news. I actually *listen*
when Fox blasts Pres Bush because I know George Soros isn't paying them
to do it.

I.P.
DoubleOwSeven - 12 May 2007 20:37 GMT
>> Sounds like you plan on making a very biased documentary.  You are
>> going to get people who used conventional treatment but who didn't
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>based out of UCLA to be the least biased news network on the air and
>Fox's Brit Hume as the most balanced reporter on the air.

Don't know where you get that.   Here's what they said...

http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=6664

====Only Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and The Washington
Times scored right of the average U.S. voter.

The most centrist outlet proved to be the "NewsHour With Jim Lehrer."
CNN's "NewsNight With Aaron Brown" and ABC's "Good Morning America"
were a close second and third.====

As you'll note, they certainly did not say Faux News was the least
biased but actually said that Lerhrer and Brown and GMA were.

Folks who were
>suckered in by the asinine "Outfoxed" video need to actually watch Fox
>News for a few weeks before believing its criminally lying (as in libel
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>I.P.
I.P. Freely - 14 May 2007 20:35 GMT
>> Fox News was declared by a left-wing, multi-university think tank study
>> based out of UCLA to be the least biased news network on the air and
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> As you'll note, they certainly did not say Faux News was the least
> biased but actually said that Lerhrer and Brown and GMA were.

That report also said "five news outlets — "NewsHour With Jim Lehrer,"
ABC's "Good Morning America," CNN's "NewsNight With Aaron Brown," Fox
News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and the Drudge Report — *were in a
statistical dead heat* in the race for the most centrist news outlet."

It sounds like they're splitting undefined hairs between "most centrist"
and "least biased". Neither warrants the heat Fox takes from both sides.

I.P.
Doug Taylor - 14 May 2007 22:29 GMT
>It sounds like they're splitting undefined hairs between "most centrist"
>and "least biased". Neither warrants the heat Fox takes from both sides.

Instead of putting your own spin on what was reported, why not just
quote it?

[Quote]:

"Only Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and The Washington
Times scored right of the average U.S. voter.

The most centrist outlet proved to be the "NewsHour With Jim Lehrer."
CNN's "NewsNight With Aaron Brown" and ABC's "Good Morning America"
were a close second and third.

"Our estimates for these outlets, we feel, give particular credibility
to our efforts, as three of the four moderators for the 2004
presidential and vice-presidential debates came from these three news
outlets — Jim Lehrer, Charlie Gibson and Gwen Ifill," Groseclose said.
"If these newscasters weren't centrist, staffers for one of the
campaign teams would have objected and insisted on other moderators."

The fourth most centrist outlet was "Special Report With Brit Hume" on
Fox News, which often is cited by liberals as an egregious example of
a right-wing outlet. While this news program proved to be right of
center, the study found ABC's "World News Tonight" and NBC's "Nightly
News" to be left of center. All three outlets were approximately
equidistant from the center, the report found.

"If viewers spent an equal amount of time watching Fox's 'Special
Report' as ABC's 'World News' and NBC's 'Nightly News,' then they
would receive a nearly perfectly balanced version of the news," said
Milyo, an associate professor of economics and public affairs at the
University of Missouri at Columbia.

[/Quote]

Repeat after me:

FOX/BRIT HUME:  RIGHT OF CENTER

ABC/NBC:  LEFT OF CENTER

JIM LEHRER:  CENTER

I.P. Freely:  Lost in space
Steve Jordan - 14 May 2007 22:47 GMT
(ka-snip)

> Repeat after me:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> I.P. Freely:  Lost in space

Keyboard!

Notwithstanding that I like Mike's politics. Mostly.

And notwithstanding that we don't know the biases of the authors of the
report.

Regards,

Steve J

"You can fool some of the people some of the time, and those are the
ones you need to concentrate on."
--Christopher Buckley
Doug Taylor - 15 May 2007 16:13 GMT
>Notwithstanding that I like Mike's politics. Mostly.

Which would make you "right of center" and according to the various
polls regarding Bush popularity, Iraq War support, Republican Party
registration, etc., in the minority as the political pendulum swings
back left (FINALLY!).

As a guy who pukes BOTH from listening to Fox News AND the Al
Sharptons of the world, I'm hoping that the pendulum stays closer to
the center next time around.  While the neo cons and Jesus Freaks
running the US government have made the USA a laughingstock worldwide,
we certainly don't need a shift to the politically correct, campus
commie left to fix it.
Peter Headland - 17 May 2007 02:01 GMT
I consider myself a moderate conservative on most topics. I find some
of Fox News's shows pretty decent, and others intolerably biased to
the right. The worst offender by far is John Gibson's "The Big Story",
which makes my blood boil every time I see it with its deliberate and
cynical distortion and manipulation to demonise liberals. A typical
example: today Gibson was trying to make his audience believe that 35%
of Democrats and even a Republican Senator think that the US military
fired missiles into the Pentagon on 9/11. O'Reilly is another who used
to have a grain of decency, but seems to have abandoned it in favour
of unpleasant ranting shrillness ever since the Dem's won both houses.
Even Cavuto who used to be a pretty sensible fellow now runs amazingly
silly stories about "the liberal media" on a fairly regular basis.
OTOH, Shep Smith shifted visibly leftwards after his trip to New
Orleans during the aftermath of Katrina (I'd say he has ended up in
the center). My opinion is, just because Brit Hume is centreist,
doesn't mean that Fox News as a whole is not biased to the right.

--
Peter Headland
I.P. Freely - 18 May 2007 23:07 GMT
> I consider myself a moderate conservative on most topics.

> Gibson was trying to make his audience believe that 35%
> of Democrats and even a Republican Senator think that the US military
> fired missiles into the Pentagon on 9/11.

I've heard that poll result -- and others far more alarming on several
topics -- from several sources. And look at the insane lies Rosie is
allowed to spew in the presence of ex-journalist Barbara Walters.

> O'Reilly is another who used
> to have a grain of decency, but seems to have abandoned it in favour
> of unpleasant ranting shrillness ever since the Dem's won both houses.

With or without O'Reilly -- whose show is news *analysis*, not news --
Dem control of the nation scares the hell out of me, too, for many very
significant reasons even farther beyond the scope of this forum. He also
clearly and often emphasizes the difference between mere mainstream
"liberals" and the outright socialists who are taking over the
Democratic party.

> Even Cavuto who used to be a pretty sensible fellow now runs amazingly
> silly stories about "the liberal media" on a fairly regular basis.

Silly? Study after study after study, plus their spoken and printed
words and omissions thereof, prove it beyond any debate.

I.P.
goodprostate@gmail.com - 12 May 2007 16:21 GMT
Actually, just the opposite, and it is not biased, but our focus on
the documentary is on alternative treatments and the success they have
had worldwide.  Most documentaries focus on successful traditional
medical practives and most doctors do not discuss alternative
therapies with their patients.  The documentarian was inspired by
people who had used alternative therapies to their success and wanted
to learn more.  So, no, Faux news is not a goal.  Providing
information is a goal.  We have interviewed people with success from
medical treatments as well, but want to see the other side.

Taylor

> Sounds like you plan on making a very biased documentary.  You are
> going to get people who used conventional treatment but who didn't
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -
rosbif - 12 May 2007 16:39 GMT
>Actually, just the opposite, and it is not biased, but our focus on
>the documentary is on alternative treatments and the success they have
>had worldwide.

Apropos, what are the stats for the success of alternative treatments
worldwide?
I.P. Freely - 12 May 2007 16:49 GMT
> Actually, just the opposite, and it is not biased, but our focus on
> the documentary is on alternative treatments and the success they have
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> information is a goal.  We have interviewed people with success from
> medical treatments as well, but want to see the other side.

We'll be watching for it, Taylor. But if it concludes or implies that
any alternative treatment offers better survivability than surgery or
radiation, it'll take some rather incredible and incontrovertible proof
to pry the whistles out of our mouths; there are some bone fide prostate
experts in these cancer forums.

One thing we're already convinced of, however, is that urologists and
oncologists tend to downplay, often ignore or even deliberately and/or
ignorantly misstate the severity and incidence of side effects. I'd love
to see more statistics on that issue.

I.P.
Alan Meyer - 12 May 2007 17:41 GMT
> Actually, just the opposite, and it is not biased, but our focus on
> the documentary is on alternative treatments and the success they have
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Taylor

Taylor,

It is very important to understand that medicine must be based on
evidence, not anecdote.  There are people with indolent cancers
or even who never had cancer at all but thought they did, who
used alternative therapies and believe they were saved by them.
There are many, many others who took alternative therapies,
reported great success, and then died of cancer.

When you think about it, what does "alternative" medicine mean
other than medicine that has not been scientifically verified?
All too often it actually means medicine that has been
scientifically tested and found to be either harmful or of no
benefit.

Consider the laetrile story.  There are thousands of testimonials
from laetrile users and "doctors" claiming cancer cures.  Many
thousands of people have taken the drug.  There are still
hundreds of patients who go to Mexico each year to get the drug.
Yet every attempt by scientific researchers to verify the success
failed.  When the evidence was examined and clinical trials
conducted, there was no benefit found from the drug - none, not
even a little benefit!

Most people don't understand science and don't know the
difference between scientific evidence and anecdote.  They don't
know anything about clinical trials, about statistics, or about
verified results.  They can't relate to that.  What they relate
to is personal stories.

If you broadcast a personal story that says that John Johnson
says he cured his cancer with laetrile, even if you don't
yourself assert that this was scientifically verified, you can be
sure that some viewers will believe that laetrile cured his
cancer, and very likely some cancer patients will believe it too.
If, in addition you combine that with a story about Tom Thompson
who got surgery, radiation or chemotherapy and suffered horribly
and died anyway, they'll really be spooked.

Do you want thousands of cancer patients and their families to
get this message?  Do you want it on your conscience when one or
more of them turns down medical treatment, gets "alternative"
treatment, and dies as a result?

   Alan
I.P. Freely - 12 May 2007 18:36 GMT
> Most people don't understand science and don't know the
> difference between scientific evidence and anecdote.  They don't
> know anything about clinical trials, about statistics, or about
> verified results.

Thanks for hitting me over the head with a well-deserved 2X4. I keep
forgetting that what distinguishes scientific/evidential statistics from
30,000 anecdotes is the *method*, including in our case patient
selection (my coincident carcinoid colon cancer banned me from trials --
perhaps fortunately, since the one trial medicine I could have tried
off-protocol ultimately caused lukemia), verification of the disease,
controls, placebos, trial duration, etc.

Scientifically, I can't prove my statin caused my year of muscle pain or
my brother's months of it. Anecdotally, however, I've already told my
doctor what he can do with another round of statins.

It's all in the methods, Taylor. Please keep us informed, as most of us
have open, even if cautious, minds.

I.P.
Alan Meyer - 13 May 2007 18:47 GMT
I got a reply by email from Taylor to my posting, which I had
also copied directly to her.

It turns out that she is being influenced by "Dr." Larry Clapp,
a quack who was first mentioned in this group as long ago
as 1998 and who is still at large, still telling patients that
they don't need medical treatment - they can cure themselves
with, well, Clapptrap.

Clapp claims a PhD in 1996 from "Galien University" in
London, but I can't find any evidence that such a university
exists or has ever existed.  His prescription for prostate
cancer is the usual alternative medicine BS, from purging
the body of parasites and toxins, to removing dental fillings
from teeth.

Taylor may be an unwitting dupe in all this.  Lots of people
are.  I hope she is one of them, and not a confederate of
the malevolent doctor.  I have written to her with the facts
as far as I could determine them and will let you know if
she replies.

I've also sent in a complaint about Clapp to the Federal
Trade Commission.  I'm not sure what state Clapp practices
in, so I don't know anyone more specific to complain to.
I hope they prosecute the S.O.B. and put him in jail for
life.

   Alan
DoubleOwSeven - 12 May 2007 20:29 GMT
>Actually, just the opposite, and it is not biased, but our focus on
>the documentary is on alternative treatments and the success they have
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Taylor

despite what you say, what you describe is a biased "documentary".
It's not even a documentary, it's more like a sales pitch for the
alternative medication.  It really doesn't matter if there are some
happy alternative patients, what matters is the OVERALL success rate
of the alternative patients compared to the conventional patients in
terms of CANCER cure first and foremost.  

>> Sounds like you plan on making a very biased documentary.  You are
>> going to get people who used conventional treatment but who didn't
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
chasjac - 13 May 2007 17:00 GMT
Taylor, you have to understand what this sounds like to us.  You ask
for people who are not happy with traditional therapies and for those
who are happy with alternatives?!  So, you do not want to hear from
people like me, who are relatively happy with their outcome and
prognosis?  How does this indicate a lack of bias?

--charlie
escapee@nospam.net - 12 May 2007 06:59 GMT
Looks, to me,  like someone wants to do a "documentary" with a
predetermined, built-in bias.  Yellow journalism?

>Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
>P.S. IF YOU ARE IN DETROIT OR CHICAGO, PLEASE EMAIL IMMEDIATELY!!!
Glassman@work - 12 May 2007 17:23 GMT
> Hi,
>
> We are looking for two types of men to interview for a documentary
> from an award-winning documentary filmmaker:

Dig up the old posts from Martin Howard. He drank urine, among many other
alternative self help treatments. A strict vegan & a courageous pioneer.
Someone should do a documentary on him alone.

Signature

JK Sinrod
www.SinrodStudios.com
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

 
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