Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / May 2007
Need people to interview for a Prostate Cancer Documentary
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goodprostate@gmail.com - 12 May 2007 06:22 GMT Hi,
We are looking for two types of men to interview for a documentary from an award-winning documentary filmmaker:
1) men who had preventional treatment by surgery or radiation (not chemo) and are NOT HAPPY with what has happened as a result, even if the cancer went away. Maybe the doctor did not reveal the extent of the side effects, made you choose surgery on a very quick basis where you felt there was no choice, or never revealed to you any other types of treatment.
or
2) men who used alternative therapy to treat their prostate cancer and are very happy with how it has turned out.
We are based out of LA, but will come to you to interview you. If you feel you have a story to tell, please email me at goodprostate@gmail.com.
Thanks for sharing your stories, Taylor
P.S. IF YOU ARE IN DETROIT OR CHICAGO, PLEASE EMAIL IMMEDIATELY!!!
DoubleOwSeven - 12 May 2007 06:43 GMT Sounds like you plan on making a very biased documentary. You are going to get people who used conventional treatment but who didn't like the outcome and compare them to people who used "alternative" therapy and liked the outcome. You must plan on selling it to Faux News.
>Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >P.S. IF YOU ARE IN DETROIT OR CHICAGO, PLEASE EMAIL IMMEDIATELY!!! I.P. Freely - 12 May 2007 07:30 GMT > Sounds like you plan on making a very biased documentary. You are > going to get people who used conventional treatment but who didn't > like the outcome and compare them to people who used "alternative" > therapy and liked the outcome. I was with you 100% right up to the next statement, which I refuse to ignore because too much is at stake.
> You must plan on selling it to Faux News. Fox News was declared by a left-wing, multi-university think tank study based out of UCLA to be the least biased news network on the air and Fox's Brit Hume as the most balanced reporter on the air. Folks who were suckered in by the asinine "Outfoxed" video need to actually watch Fox News for a few weeks before believing its criminally lying (as in libel and slander) detractors. You can't otherwise even imagine the number of times major "news" sources are proven by their own false stories to lie about Fox's shows and journalists and to lie (including lies of omission) to their listeners about the news. Why do you think Fox News is blowing all other cable news networks -- combined -- completely out of the water in the ratings? It's because they vett and back up their facts, because they let people from both sides of the issues debate them on the air and let us decide who's right, and because tapes of their broadcasts disprove claims leveled against them almost daily. I observe many hours of news, analysis, and discussion thereof from many sources every day, and truly believe that anyone not watching Fox is not getting the whole story because *SO* many stories backed up in depth on Fox do not even appear in any other media until -- if even then -- Fox directly challenges them by name to actually cover the news. I actually *listen* when Fox blasts Pres Bush because I know George Soros isn't paying them to do it.
I.P.
DoubleOwSeven - 12 May 2007 20:37 GMT >> Sounds like you plan on making a very biased documentary. You are >> going to get people who used conventional treatment but who didn't [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >based out of UCLA to be the least biased news network on the air and >Fox's Brit Hume as the most balanced reporter on the air. Don't know where you get that. Here's what they said...
http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=6664
====Only Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and The Washington Times scored right of the average U.S. voter.
The most centrist outlet proved to be the "NewsHour With Jim Lehrer." CNN's "NewsNight With Aaron Brown" and ABC's "Good Morning America" were a close second and third.====
As you'll note, they certainly did not say Faux News was the least biased but actually said that Lerhrer and Brown and GMA were.
Folks who were
>suckered in by the asinine "Outfoxed" video need to actually watch Fox >News for a few weeks before believing its criminally lying (as in libel [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >I.P. I.P. Freely - 14 May 2007 20:35 GMT >> Fox News was declared by a left-wing, multi-university think tank study >> based out of UCLA to be the least biased news network on the air and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > As you'll note, they certainly did not say Faux News was the least > biased but actually said that Lerhrer and Brown and GMA were. That report also said "five news outlets — "NewsHour With Jim Lehrer," ABC's "Good Morning America," CNN's "NewsNight With Aaron Brown," Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and the Drudge Report — *were in a statistical dead heat* in the race for the most centrist news outlet."
It sounds like they're splitting undefined hairs between "most centrist" and "least biased". Neither warrants the heat Fox takes from both sides.
I.P.
Doug Taylor - 14 May 2007 22:29 GMT >It sounds like they're splitting undefined hairs between "most centrist" >and "least biased". Neither warrants the heat Fox takes from both sides. Instead of putting your own spin on what was reported, why not just quote it?
[Quote]:
"Only Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume" and The Washington Times scored right of the average U.S. voter.
The most centrist outlet proved to be the "NewsHour With Jim Lehrer." CNN's "NewsNight With Aaron Brown" and ABC's "Good Morning America" were a close second and third.
"Our estimates for these outlets, we feel, give particular credibility to our efforts, as three of the four moderators for the 2004 presidential and vice-presidential debates came from these three news outlets Jim Lehrer, Charlie Gibson and Gwen Ifill," Groseclose said. "If these newscasters weren't centrist, staffers for one of the campaign teams would have objected and insisted on other moderators."
The fourth most centrist outlet was "Special Report With Brit Hume" on Fox News, which often is cited by liberals as an egregious example of a right-wing outlet. While this news program proved to be right of center, the study found ABC's "World News Tonight" and NBC's "Nightly News" to be left of center. All three outlets were approximately equidistant from the center, the report found.
"If viewers spent an equal amount of time watching Fox's 'Special Report' as ABC's 'World News' and NBC's 'Nightly News,' then they would receive a nearly perfectly balanced version of the news," said Milyo, an associate professor of economics and public affairs at the University of Missouri at Columbia.
[/Quote]
Repeat after me:
FOX/BRIT HUME: RIGHT OF CENTER
ABC/NBC: LEFT OF CENTER
JIM LEHRER: CENTER
I.P. Freely: Lost in space
Steve Jordan - 14 May 2007 22:47 GMT (ka-snip)
> Repeat after me: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I.P. Freely: Lost in space Keyboard!
Notwithstanding that I like Mike's politics. Mostly.
And notwithstanding that we don't know the biases of the authors of the report.
Regards,
Steve J
"You can fool some of the people some of the time, and those are the ones you need to concentrate on." --Christopher Buckley
Doug Taylor - 15 May 2007 16:13 GMT >Notwithstanding that I like Mike's politics. Mostly. Which would make you "right of center" and according to the various polls regarding Bush popularity, Iraq War support, Republican Party registration, etc., in the minority as the political pendulum swings back left (FINALLY!).
As a guy who pukes BOTH from listening to Fox News AND the Al Sharptons of the world, I'm hoping that the pendulum stays closer to the center next time around. While the neo cons and Jesus Freaks running the US government have made the USA a laughingstock worldwide, we certainly don't need a shift to the politically correct, campus commie left to fix it.
Peter Headland - 17 May 2007 02:01 GMT I consider myself a moderate conservative on most topics. I find some of Fox News's shows pretty decent, and others intolerably biased to the right. The worst offender by far is John Gibson's "The Big Story", which makes my blood boil every time I see it with its deliberate and cynical distortion and manipulation to demonise liberals. A typical example: today Gibson was trying to make his audience believe that 35% of Democrats and even a Republican Senator think that the US military fired missiles into the Pentagon on 9/11. O'Reilly is another who used to have a grain of decency, but seems to have abandoned it in favour of unpleasant ranting shrillness ever since the Dem's won both houses. Even Cavuto who used to be a pretty sensible fellow now runs amazingly silly stories about "the liberal media" on a fairly regular basis. OTOH, Shep Smith shifted visibly leftwards after his trip to New Orleans during the aftermath of Katrina (I'd say he has ended up in the center). My opinion is, just because Brit Hume is centreist, doesn't mean that Fox News as a whole is not biased to the right.
-- Peter Headland
I.P. Freely - 18 May 2007 23:07 GMT > I consider myself a moderate conservative on most topics.
> Gibson was trying to make his audience believe that 35% > of Democrats and even a Republican Senator think that the US military > fired missiles into the Pentagon on 9/11. I've heard that poll result -- and others far more alarming on several topics -- from several sources. And look at the insane lies Rosie is allowed to spew in the presence of ex-journalist Barbara Walters.
> O'Reilly is another who used > to have a grain of decency, but seems to have abandoned it in favour > of unpleasant ranting shrillness ever since the Dem's won both houses. With or without O'Reilly -- whose show is news *analysis*, not news -- Dem control of the nation scares the hell out of me, too, for many very significant reasons even farther beyond the scope of this forum. He also clearly and often emphasizes the difference between mere mainstream "liberals" and the outright socialists who are taking over the Democratic party.
> Even Cavuto who used to be a pretty sensible fellow now runs amazingly > silly stories about "the liberal media" on a fairly regular basis. Silly? Study after study after study, plus their spoken and printed words and omissions thereof, prove it beyond any debate.
I.P.
goodprostate@gmail.com - 12 May 2007 16:21 GMT Actually, just the opposite, and it is not biased, but our focus on the documentary is on alternative treatments and the success they have had worldwide. Most documentaries focus on successful traditional medical practives and most doctors do not discuss alternative therapies with their patients. The documentarian was inspired by people who had used alternative therapies to their success and wanted to learn more. So, no, Faux news is not a goal. Providing information is a goal. We have interviewed people with success from medical treatments as well, but want to see the other side.
Taylor
> Sounds like you plan on making a very biased documentary. You are > going to get people who used conventional treatment but who didn't [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > - Show quoted text - rosbif - 12 May 2007 16:39 GMT >Actually, just the opposite, and it is not biased, but our focus on >the documentary is on alternative treatments and the success they have >had worldwide. Apropos, what are the stats for the success of alternative treatments worldwide?
I.P. Freely - 12 May 2007 16:49 GMT > Actually, just the opposite, and it is not biased, but our focus on > the documentary is on alternative treatments and the success they have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > information is a goal. We have interviewed people with success from > medical treatments as well, but want to see the other side. We'll be watching for it, Taylor. But if it concludes or implies that any alternative treatment offers better survivability than surgery or radiation, it'll take some rather incredible and incontrovertible proof to pry the whistles out of our mouths; there are some bone fide prostate experts in these cancer forums.
One thing we're already convinced of, however, is that urologists and oncologists tend to downplay, often ignore or even deliberately and/or ignorantly misstate the severity and incidence of side effects. I'd love to see more statistics on that issue.
I.P.
Alan Meyer - 12 May 2007 17:41 GMT > Actually, just the opposite, and it is not biased, but our focus on > the documentary is on alternative treatments and the success they have [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Taylor Taylor,
It is very important to understand that medicine must be based on evidence, not anecdote. There are people with indolent cancers or even who never had cancer at all but thought they did, who used alternative therapies and believe they were saved by them. There are many, many others who took alternative therapies, reported great success, and then died of cancer.
When you think about it, what does "alternative" medicine mean other than medicine that has not been scientifically verified? All too often it actually means medicine that has been scientifically tested and found to be either harmful or of no benefit.
Consider the laetrile story. There are thousands of testimonials from laetrile users and "doctors" claiming cancer cures. Many thousands of people have taken the drug. There are still hundreds of patients who go to Mexico each year to get the drug. Yet every attempt by scientific researchers to verify the success failed. When the evidence was examined and clinical trials conducted, there was no benefit found from the drug - none, not even a little benefit!
Most people don't understand science and don't know the difference between scientific evidence and anecdote. They don't know anything about clinical trials, about statistics, or about verified results. They can't relate to that. What they relate to is personal stories.
If you broadcast a personal story that says that John Johnson says he cured his cancer with laetrile, even if you don't yourself assert that this was scientifically verified, you can be sure that some viewers will believe that laetrile cured his cancer, and very likely some cancer patients will believe it too. If, in addition you combine that with a story about Tom Thompson who got surgery, radiation or chemotherapy and suffered horribly and died anyway, they'll really be spooked.
Do you want thousands of cancer patients and their families to get this message? Do you want it on your conscience when one or more of them turns down medical treatment, gets "alternative" treatment, and dies as a result?
Alan
I.P. Freely - 12 May 2007 18:36 GMT > Most people don't understand science and don't know the > difference between scientific evidence and anecdote. They don't > know anything about clinical trials, about statistics, or about > verified results. Thanks for hitting me over the head with a well-deserved 2X4. I keep forgetting that what distinguishes scientific/evidential statistics from 30,000 anecdotes is the *method*, including in our case patient selection (my coincident carcinoid colon cancer banned me from trials -- perhaps fortunately, since the one trial medicine I could have tried off-protocol ultimately caused lukemia), verification of the disease, controls, placebos, trial duration, etc.
Scientifically, I can't prove my statin caused my year of muscle pain or my brother's months of it. Anecdotally, however, I've already told my doctor what he can do with another round of statins.
It's all in the methods, Taylor. Please keep us informed, as most of us have open, even if cautious, minds.
I.P.
Alan Meyer - 13 May 2007 18:47 GMT I got a reply by email from Taylor to my posting, which I had also copied directly to her.
It turns out that she is being influenced by "Dr." Larry Clapp, a quack who was first mentioned in this group as long ago as 1998 and who is still at large, still telling patients that they don't need medical treatment - they can cure themselves with, well, Clapptrap.
Clapp claims a PhD in 1996 from "Galien University" in London, but I can't find any evidence that such a university exists or has ever existed. His prescription for prostate cancer is the usual alternative medicine BS, from purging the body of parasites and toxins, to removing dental fillings from teeth.
Taylor may be an unwitting dupe in all this. Lots of people are. I hope she is one of them, and not a confederate of the malevolent doctor. I have written to her with the facts as far as I could determine them and will let you know if she replies.
I've also sent in a complaint about Clapp to the Federal Trade Commission. I'm not sure what state Clapp practices in, so I don't know anyone more specific to complain to. I hope they prosecute the S.O.B. and put him in jail for life.
Alan
DoubleOwSeven - 12 May 2007 20:29 GMT >Actually, just the opposite, and it is not biased, but our focus on >the documentary is on alternative treatments and the success they have [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Taylor despite what you say, what you describe is a biased "documentary". It's not even a documentary, it's more like a sales pitch for the alternative medication. It really doesn't matter if there are some happy alternative patients, what matters is the OVERALL success rate of the alternative patients compared to the conventional patients in terms of CANCER cure first and foremost.
>> Sounds like you plan on making a very biased documentary. You are >> going to get people who used conventional treatment but who didn't [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> >> - Show quoted text - chasjac - 13 May 2007 17:00 GMT Taylor, you have to understand what this sounds like to us. You ask for people who are not happy with traditional therapies and for those who are happy with alternatives?! So, you do not want to hear from people like me, who are relatively happy with their outcome and prognosis? How does this indicate a lack of bias?
--charlie
escapee@nospam.net - 12 May 2007 06:59 GMT Looks, to me, like someone wants to do a "documentary" with a predetermined, built-in bias. Yellow journalism?
>Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >P.S. IF YOU ARE IN DETROIT OR CHICAGO, PLEASE EMAIL IMMEDIATELY!!! Glassman@work - 12 May 2007 17:23 GMT > Hi, > > We are looking for two types of men to interview for a documentary > from an award-winning documentary filmmaker: Dig up the old posts from Martin Howard. He drank urine, among many other alternative self help treatments. A strict vegan & a courageous pioneer. Someone should do a documentary on him alone.
 Signature JK Sinrod www.SinrodStudios.com www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com
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