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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / March 2007

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PSA

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Terry - 23 Mar 2007 17:54 GMT
I am having trouble going to the bathroom.  I go frequently and in a
very small amount.  It is not painful, but it is uncomfortable.

I had a PSA test done and it was 4.75.  My urine showed up a little
blood.

The doctor ordered a MRI and did a biopsy.

When I went to see the doctor he said all the results were negative.

He was going to tell me to come back in 6 months and send me on my
way.

I reminded him that I was having trouble going to the bathroom so he
prescribed FloMax.

It seems to help some but I still go at night and frequently.

He never ordered another PSA test.

I am thinking that I should go see another doctor.

Any thoughts?

Thanks
c palmer - 23 Mar 2007 18:35 GMT
From: kilowatt@charter.net (Terry)

I am having trouble going to the bathroom. I go frequently and in a very
small amount. It is not painful, but it is uncomfortable.

I had a PSA test done and it was 4.75. My urine showed up a little
blood.
The doctor ordered a MRI and did a biopsy.
When I went to see the doctor he said all the results were negative.
He was going to tell me to come back in 6 months and send me on my way.
I reminded him that I was having trouble going to the bathroom so he
prescribed FloMax.
It seems to help some but I still go at night and frequently.
He never ordered another PSA test.
I am thinking that I should go see another doctor.
Any thoughts?
Thanks

====> interesting.......

back in 2002, i was having a slowing down in urine flow and when i got
my psa tested, i was 5 49.   after two weeks of antibiotics, it was down
to 4.7   they did a follow up to a uro visit which lead to a biopsy,
which lead to prostate cancer, which lead to surgery, which lead to the
source of my problem on the slow peeing.

i have a piece of BPH tissue growing out of the prostate which had grown
into the bladder wall and collapsed it and it was covering the output
hole of the bladder.  i was in the process of rental shutdown.

the surgeon says that it doesn't happen that often, it does happen.

so, what i thought was a BPH condition proved out to be a lot more.

bottom line - you need to take care of your health.  get more testing
done.  if nothing else, get a free psa test ran.  that will give you
some idea of was going on too.

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
chasjac - 23 Mar 2007 18:50 GMT
Hello, Terry:

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles.  How old a man are you?  A PSA of
4.75 is a danger signal for a younger man.  I am 51, and my PSA was
5.2 when I was diagnosed with prostate cancer.  But a PSA like 4.75 is
interpreted very differently for men in their late 70s or 80s.

If you are having trouble urinating, and producing small amounts, that
could be an enlarged prostate.  The negative biopsy supports that, but
is not conclusive.  I think that a urologist would have discussed with
you a transurethral resection of the prostate (TURP).  Sometimes the
slang term is 'roto-rooter surgery.'  It sounds worse than it is; I
think a lot of men who have had it report relief pretty quickly.  Of
course, I'm not a doctor so I don't know if such a procedure is right
for you.

You always have a right to a second opinion.  And you should feel
informed about what's happening to you.  If you don't and your doctor
isn't helping you, fire him/her.

You should also consider getting a good book on the prostate, like
Walsh's or Scardino's.

Good luck.

--charlie
Terry - 23 Mar 2007 21:53 GMT
> Hello, Terry:
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> You should also consider getting a good book on the prostate, like
> Walsh's or Scardino's.

Thanks to all that chimed in with their thoughts.

I am 49 M BTW.

One other test I forgot to mention was an ultrasound of my bladder.
The doc said that my bladder was emptying like it should.

This would lead me to believe that a swolen prostrate might not be the
problem.
Steve Kramer - 23 Mar 2007 22:18 GMT
> I am 49 M BTW.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> This would lead me to believe that a swolen prostrate might not be the
> problem.

Get a second opinion.  You should not have a PSA of 4.0 without a swollen
prostate.  Your doctor should have told you the exact size of your prostate.
Sometimes, biopsies return false negatives.
J - 23 Mar 2007 20:14 GMT
> I am having trouble going to the bathroom.  I go frequently and in a
> very small amount.  It is not painful, but it is uncomfortable.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Thanks

4.75 is not that high.  Folks here mention that size matters.
There's a (treatment decision making) algorithm here
http://www.cfpc.ca/cfp/2004/Jan/vol50-jan-cme-2.asp (where you'll see that
10 is in the watchful waiting category).

and other things that produce PSA
http://www.diagnosis.prostate-help.org/pcpsaot.htm
from http://www.diagnosis.prostate-help.org/

PSA should not be taken within 48 hours of the prostate
manipulation/massaging orgasm or DRE.

There's other things that can cause blood in the urine, kidney cancer,
bladder cancer, penile cancer, too vigourous masturbation, infections and
the list is probably longer.

Your doctor prescribed Flomax. Most doctors assume followup by the
patient.
(when you go back) Talk with him as to whether further tests should be
pursued and/or some of the issues I've posted here. If still in doubt, get
a different opinion, possibly from a specialist at a teaching hospital to
set your mind at rest and/or get retested in 6 months but do make sure you
don't stress over it; communicate with your doctor.
J
PS blood in the urine
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003138.htm
Richbro - 24 Mar 2007 01:24 GMT
> 4.75 is not that high.  Folks here mention that size matters.

My PSA was 4.8. I started thru additional tests and, long story short,
my cancer had already methasized into the lymph nodes and Gleasons was
8 (5+3). Everybody was surprised and now I'm battleing non-curable
cancer that has turned refractory. Just pointing out the other side to
the odds.

Good luck Terry

Rich
Lud - 24 Mar 2007 21:37 GMT
> I am having trouble going to the bathroom.  I go frequently and in a
> very small amount.  It is not painful, but it is uncomfortable.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Any thoughts?
> Thanks

>From what you describe, your doctor does not seem to be a Urologist,
if he is then you need a different one. You need a Urologist when it
comes to plumbing. I would think your doctor should have checked for
infection and done a cystoscopy (a peek up the urethra to the bladder
- that has been my experience. From recent studies, any PSA over 2.5
is suspicious and prostate cancer should be ruled out by finding out
why the PSA is elevated. What was the pathologist's report from the
biopsy, it should have prostate size and PSA density. Did you get a
Free PSA test - it is another indicator for risk of cancer.

Some doctors take our problems far too lightly. Best wishes.
Terry - 24 Mar 2007 23:42 GMT
> > I am having trouble going to the bathroom.  I go frequently and in a
> > very small amount.  It is not painful, but it is uncomfortable.
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Some doctors take our problems far too lightly. Best wishes

James O. Morgan, III M.D.
Emory Clinic Physician
Assistant Professor of Urology

This is the doctor that preformed my biopsy.  He was recommended by
Emory.  He is supposed to be comfortable with transplant patients.

http://i9.tinypic.com/3zit09j.jpg
http://i5.tinypic.com/2v0jv3k.jpg
http://i11.tinypic.com/34rsuut.jpg

This was the report the doctor handed me.  I am not sure if he
received any extra information.  Like I have said in the past, my
memory is poor.  He was pleased to inform me that all my results were
negative.  I don't think he ever said I have an enlarged prostrate.

During the initial visit I did do a urine sample.  The urine sample
showed a little blood.  He did no other test for infection.  He also
did an ultrasound of my bladder and it was empting like it should.  He
did not do a cystoscopy

Thanks again to all that replied.
Terry - 25 Mar 2007 01:03 GMT
> > > I am having trouble going to the bathroom.  I go frequently and in a
> > > very small amount.  It is not painful, but it is uncomfortable.
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>
> Thanks again to all that replied

Well those snapshots were not very easy to read.

Try this one

http://i3.tinypic.com/4huleud.jpg

There was one more page but it showed the same stuff for sample 6

I got no report showing my prostrate size.

I am going to compile a list of questions I have after reading all
this helpful information and fax it to him.

I don't think I should wait until my 6 month return visit.

Thanks again all.
chasjac - 25 Mar 2007 05:17 GMT
> I don't think I should wait until my 6 month return visit.

Hello again, Terry:

I see from the other thread that you've had a liver transplant.  While
that makes me very hesitant to offer too much advice -- it's no doubt
a very complex situation -- I'd say that 6 months is a very long time,
especially if you're uncomfortable with the doc's assessment.

--charlie
Lud - 25 Mar 2007 15:12 GMT
> James O. Morgan, III M.D.
> Emory Clinic Physician
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> This was the report the doctor handed me.

I am surprised that the biopsy was only 6 samples. The doctors that do
few samples usually check with color Doppler ultrasound to check for
blood vessel concentration indicating a tumor.  My standard biopsy 8
years ago took 12 samples and now some doctors are taking as many as
50 samples (OUCH!). A tiny needle in a walnut sized gland has
limitations as to what it can sample.

If you are planning another PSA test, the rule of thumb is that it
takes 6 to 8 weeks for the prostate to heal and return to normal -
mine did not return to base PSA even 3 months later at which time I
started treatment.

I think a follow up should be much shorter than 6 months.
Terry - 25 Mar 2007 21:57 GMT
> > James O. Morgan, III M.D.
> > Emory Clinic Physician
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> I think a follow up should be much shorter than 6 months.

He did take 12 samples.  I don't know why they only showed 6 on the
report.

I felt like 12 was plenty.  :)
 
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