It really doesn't offer anything remarkably different from Androgen Blockade
Drugs do - I think the only "thing" about them is that PC-SNES is meant for
those folk who don't want to take the drug road - by that I mean those who
are LOOKING for a 'natural' way of doing the deed.
That apart, the drug IS being marketed in Europe but the original formula
has been changed - to what - it doesn't say. It's also quite expensive.
I think I'll stick with my FREE NHS-Provided drugs.
Thanks to everyone for all the help though.
Cheers.
Hughie.

hi hugh - here's something from my file who did check out PC-SPES.
although it is somewhat dated, i thought you might find it
interesting.......

~ curtis

=============

Subject:PC-SPEC -- a clinical study

From: JohnMarkCarter@CompuServe.com Subject: PC-SPEC -- a
clinical study Date: Mon, Jun 1, 1998, 3:53pm (CST+6) Group:
alt.support.cancer.prostate

Last Friday (29MAY98) I attended the 1998 annual retreat of cancer
research in New Jersey. One abstract that was very interesting to me is
worth sharing with the group. It presented results from a small clinical
study of PC-SPES. The study was somewhat poorly designed and performed,
but some of the results are nonetheless conclusive. Below I present the
abstract exactly as it was published in the proceedings. Then I offer a
translation into lay language. Then my notes from the lecture that the
primary author delivered.

And finally a professional critique of the study. (Although the latter
is offered IMHO, I am a PhD biochemist with 10 years experience in
research including a few recent years studying breast and prostate
cancer.)

ABSTRACT:
Clinical and Biological activity of an Herbal Combination (PC-SPES) in
the Treatment of Prostate Cancer.
Robert S. DiPaola, Huayan Zhang, George Lambert, Robert Mecker, Edward
Licitra, Heidi Spaulding, Susan Goodie, Michel B. Toledano, William
Hait, Michael Gallo.

The Cancer Institute of New Jersey, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School,
New Brunswick, NJ and EOHSI.
Background. Herbal medicines have gained popular appeal as alternatives
to proven therapies. PC-SPES, a commercially available herbal
combination, is touted as a non-estrogenic treatment for cancer of the
prostate, although other herbal medicines have been known to have in
vitro estrogenic effects. Therefore we tested the clinical and
biological activity of PC-SPES in men with cancer of the prostate.
Methods. Estrogenic activity of PC-SPES was measured by transcriptional
activation assays in yeast and in a biological assay in rodents. The
clinical activity of

PC-SPES was determined in patients with hormone-sensitive cancer of the
prostate by measuring PSA and serum testosterone concentrations during
and after treatment. Results. In complimentary yeast assays, a 1:200
dilution of an ethanol extract of PC-SPES (320 mg per capsule) contained
estrogenic activity similar to 1 nM estradiol. In ovarectomized CD-1
mice, PC-SPES
increased uterine weights compared to vehicle controls (p=0.004). In 6/6
patients, PC-SPES suppressed the concentration of serum testosterone by
71% +/- 8.0 (p=0.025), and in 8/8 patients decreased PSA by 64% +/- 11
(p=0.005). Patients consuming PC-SPES experienced estrogenic side
effects including breast tenderness (8/8), loss of libido (8/8), and
venous thrombosis (1/8).

Conclusions.

PC-SPES has potent estrogenic activity, as demonstrated in yeast,
rodents, and man. PC-SPES is capable of androgen ablation, reducing PSA,
and producing estrogenic side effects in men with cancer of the
prostate. The use of this agent may confound results of standard or
experimental therapies, and may produce significant toxicity. These data
highlight the potent beneficial and adverse biological activities that
can be associated with unrestricted nutritional food supplements.

LAY TRANSLATION:

PC-SPES works on CaP the same way that androgen ablation therapy works.

That is, it acts like estrogen and inhibits the production of
testosterone which is needed by hormone sensitive CaP for its survival
and growth. It works, but it has side effects, as do most drugs. If you
decide to use PC-SPES tell your physician, since it's a very potent
drug.

MY NOTES:

1. PC-SPES contains the following herbs: chrysanthemum, isatis,
licorice, Lucid gamoderma, pseudoginseng, rubescens, saw palmetto, and
scute.
2. PSA levels typically began to increase within three weeks of
withdrawal from PC-SPES.
3. 2 of 6 patients experienced testosterone depression to <25 ng/dl.
This is castrate level. All 6 of 6 patients experienced significant
reduction of serum testosterone.
4. HPLC analysis of the clinically active ethanol extract administered
in the study indicated many compounds, but no estrogen. (This rules out
the possibility that the distributor simply added cheap estrogen to an
inert herbal compound.)

CRITIQUE:

1. This is a shaky little preliminary trial.

You can't believe everything that it purports. However, it looks really
very interesting. It looks interesting enough that I'm going to write a
grant proposal based on isolation of the active principle(s) from the
mixture. This principle well be a good lead towards a new therapeutic.
Some people will always prefer to take "natural" remedies. But chemists
like me can often improve on the activity and side effect profiles of
naturally occurring remedies. As a matter of fact, that's where a lot of
new drugs come from.
2. It's not really fair of the authors to make an issue of the one
incidence of venous thrombosis they observed, especially since
thrombosis was not pre-decided to be one of the clinical parameters they
would study. However, it's worth watching. One of the reasons CaP
patients don't just take cheap estrogen is because estrogen causes so
many undesirable side effects, including a risk of potentially
life-threatening blood clots.
3. Chalk one up for the alternative medicine folks! I'd like to see a
thorough comparison of PC-SPES versus traditional medicine, with costs
and risks compared to health benefits. Right now most CaP patients will
have to take synthetic pharmaceuticals, since that's what their docs
will prescribe, and it's all their health insurance plans will pay for.
Pretty cool, huh? In closing I reiterate: if you take PC-SPES (or any
other remedy) tell your doc and your pharmacist.
Mark

DISCLAIMER:
This is not a professional evaluation. I did not examine any patient
prior to making these comments, and I have neither charged nor received
any fee. Discuss these comments with your personal physician, and act
upon his/her advice. By participating in an Internet discussion, I am
not creating a physician-patient relationship, nor may I be held
responsible for any potential breach of confidentiality.

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc