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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / January 2007

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What should I be asking the urologist tomorrow?

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3Putt from South Carolina - 18 Jan 2007 19:29 GMT
3 week follow-up to my seed implants in the morning.  Discomfort in the
rectum when seated for any length of time.  Vicodin may have been
interacting with the Flomax.  Was getting up 5-6 times overnight.  Quit the
Vidodin and switched to Aleeve, and now I can make it through the night.  I
am scheduled to see the Oncologist on the 29th for a CT.  But I wonder how
much swelling of the prostate is still there?
Alan Meyer - 18 Jan 2007 22:02 GMT
> 3 week follow-up to my seed implants in the morning.  Discomfort in the
> rectum when seated for any length of time.  Vicodin may have been
> interacting with the Flomax.  Was getting up 5-6 times overnight.  Quit the
> Vidodin and switched to Aleeve, and now I can make it through the night.  I
> am scheduled to see the Oncologist on the 29th for a CT.  But I wonder how
> much swelling of the prostate is still there?

I don't know anything about Vicodin, but Aleve is an anti-inflammatory.
It may not only help with your pain, but also help shrink the swollen
tissues that cause the frequent urination.

I don't know which kind of seeding you had (Palladium or Iodine)
but both of those will still be putting out a lot of radiation at 3
weeks.  Palladium has a shorter half life and will wind down
sooner.

Your doc can confirm this, but I'm guessing that the swelling will
stay there for many more weeks.  However, if you can make it
through the night you're doing very well.  It took me five months
to get back to where I was before seeding in terms of urinary
side effects.

Radiation will damage the rectal walls.  I suggest asking the
doctor about home remedies for that.  He may think that Preparation
H, or vaseline, or something like that will help.  It helped me.

Ask him about what PSA targets he is expecting at what times.
But don't be too alarmed if you don't meet them.  PSA "bounce"
is very common with seeding.

Good luck, and good luck with your golf.  Maybe someday
you'll write to us as 2Putt from South Carolina.

   Alan
ron - 18 Jan 2007 22:24 GMT
Someone is going to measure a CT-based dosimetry profile.  This will
produce a contour map showing which areas of the prostate, and the
surrounding area, received ...80%, 90%, 100%, 110%... of the computer
planned radiation dose.  The results may also be presented as D90 (the
dose delivered to 90% of the prostate) or V90 (the volume of prostate
receiving 90% of the projected dose).  You should ask to see this
information and make sure there are no very hot or cold spots...Best
wishes and good health, ron
Alan Meyer - 19 Jan 2007 00:11 GMT
> Someone is going to measure a CT-based dosimetry profile.  This will
> produce a contour map showing which areas of the prostate, and the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> information and make sure there are no very hot or cold spots...Best
> wishes and good health, ron

Wow!

Do you know anyone who has done that?  What did they find?
Can a layman interpret such a map successfully?

If it were you, what would you do if there were a hot or cold
spot?  Would you ask for another seed to be implanted in a
cold spot or one to be extracted from a hot spot?

   Alan
ron - 19 Jan 2007 01:11 GMT
> Do you know anyone who has done that?  What did they find?
> Can a layman interpret such a map successfully?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>     Alan

Hi Alan...I seem to recall someone in the NG mentioning they saw their
D90 report.  I guess I assumed most seed practitioners would review the
dosimetry with the patient post-treatment, but I don't know.  I would
think everyone using seeds would want to see theirs.  It's a report
card of sorts, it shows how well the doc executed the computer
generated plan.  I'd ask the doc to review it with me and to point out
any hot/cold spots.  If there were any, I'd ask him what his
recommendation was on how to proceed...Best wishes and good health, ron
Alan Meyer - 19 Jan 2007 02:00 GMT
One radiation oncologist I talked to told me that when he first
began seeding patients, he did careful studies of whether the
seeds stayed in place, whether any wandered into other parts
of the body, etc.  He took chest images for example and found
that it was not altogether uncommon for a seed to wind up in
the lungs.  He implied that hot and cold spots were not
uncommon.

But after he gained experience, he stopped doing that.  He
said there was nothing to do about it anyway and it would
worry the patient for no useful outcome.

Similarly, I suspect that no surgeons will make CT scans
or MRI scans to see if they can determine if any prostate
tissue got left behind.  It's possible that the scans can't
reveal that, but even if they could, it's hard to imagine a
surgeon opening up a patient for a second shot at it.

Treatment of both kinds seems to be a one shot deal.  I've
not heard of a second attempt at either radiation or surgery,
though of course we do know that radiation may be done
after failed surgery.

   Alan
Tom Cular - 19 Jan 2007 08:46 GMT
> One radiation oncologist I talked to told me that when he first
> began seeding patients, he did careful studies of whether the
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>    Alan

Alan,

I had a CT scan a couple of weeks after seeding and received a letter from
the radiation oncologist stating that all went according to plan, like you,
I doubt if many of us would understand the images if they were shown to us.
On a side note, while having a heart catherization, I saw the seeds on the
screen as they were inserting the catheter, it looked like a shotgun
pattern.

Tom
ron - 19 Jan 2007 20:54 GMT
Alan Meyer wrote...snip...
> But after he gained experience, he stopped doing that.  He
> said there was nothing to do about it anyway and it would
> worry the patient for no useful outcome.

I find that surprising.  Seeds is pretty much out-patient to begin
with, removing a seed and inserting another one somewhere else doesn't
sound like a difficult task.  Numerous studies have shown D90 to be a
(or the) significant predictor of patient outcome.  Knowing what I know
now, I'd want a doc that checked the quality of his work.  Further, I'd
make sure he was agreeable to telling me what the computer planned D90
was and what my actual D90 was.  I'd get his agreement up front to tell
me if I had a significant hot or cold spot and I think I would expect
him to fix any problems.  I didn't go through all of this to have 95%
of my prostate fixed...Best wishes and good health, ron
Alan Meyer - 19 Jan 2007 21:44 GMT
> Alan Meyer wrote...snip...
>> But after he gained experience, he stopped doing that.  He
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> him to fix any problems.  I didn't go through all of this to have 95%
> of my prostate fixed...Best wishes and good health, ron

Ron,

That's certainly a good point.

I think I'll post a message asking if anyone has had that happen.

   Alan
Leonard Evens - 19 Jan 2007 14:58 GMT
> 3 week follow-up to my seed implants in the morning.  Discomfort in the
> rectum when seated for any length of time.  Vicodin may have been
> interacting with the Flomax.  Was getting up 5-6 times overnight.  Quit the
> Vidodin and switched to Aleeve, and now I can make it through the night.  I
> am scheduled to see the Oncologist on the 29th for a CT.  But I wonder how
> much swelling of the prostate is still there?

Aleve is a proprietary version of naproxen.   It is a non-steroidal
anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID).  You can take it twice a day.  Doses
range from 220 mg on up to 500 mg, but you have to be careful with it
since it can irritate the stomach and even produce bleeding.  It is best
to take it with food.  If you are taking it for an extended period of
time or in higher doses, you should make sure you clear what you do with
your doctor.  It reduces inflammation.  You can save money by buying
your drugstore's house brand of naproxen instead of Aleve.  There is no
difference.

Vicodin is a combination of hydrocodone, an opiate based painkiller, and
acetaminophen (trade name tylenol).  Each pill, in the usual
formulation, has the eqivalent of one extra strength tylenol.   You
shouldn't take more than 8 of the latter per day, whether combined with
hydrocodone or not.  The hydrocodone is in principle habit forming, but
people who take it for relief of pain don't usually become addicted to
it.  I've taken lots of it and have never become addicted.  The main
problem with Vicodin, particular for you, is that it leads to
constipation, which I would imagine would exacerbate your rectal
problems from the radiation.  Often stool softeners and/or laxatives
will help with the constipation.

In principle, there is no reason why you couldn't take both naproxen and
vicodin, but my guess is that the constipation producing effect of the
vicodin would suggest not using it if the naproxen suffices.
I.P. Freely - 19 Jan 2007 18:38 GMT
> Aleve is a proprietary version of naproxen.   It is a non-steroidal
> anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID). ... you have to be careful with it
> since it can irritate the stomach and even produce bleeding.  

i.e., ulcers. Some people are very sensitive to even light doses of
NSAIDS, quickly producing painful and potentially harmful ulcers. Watch
closely for any abdominal discomfort, including that attributed to
heartburn, cramping, constipation, "tummy ache", etc.

> It is best to take it with food.

But don't assume that will prevent problems; it often doesn't help.

> If you are taking it for an extended period of
> time or in higher doses, you should make sure you clear what you do with
> your doctor.

Even well below max daily doses for just a week or two produces medical
problems in some people. NSAIDS are serious meds for those sensitive to
them, as many are. Do not treat them like candy as I see *many* people do.

Bear in mind that even just a drink or two a day of alcohol can
significantly exacerbate the potential harm of NSAIDS. Both stress the
liver, which is another very common target of NSAID damage.

> Vicodin is a combination of hydrocodone, an opiate based painkiller, and
> acetaminophen (trade name tylenol)

Acetaminophen is also risky with alcohol.

These aren't just rare SEs; they are quite common complications of
NSAIDS that merit medical monitoring by one's physician. With proper
monitoring most people tolerate them fine, but thousands of U.S.
citizens die every year from "simple" NSAIDS . . . *drugs* . . . from
aspirin to designer NSAIDS with their capitalized brand names such as
Aleve. Heed Leonard's advice -- "make sure you clear what you do with
your doctor" -- very rigorously.

I.P.
NICK - 19 Jan 2007 22:35 GMT
> Bear in mind that even just a drink or two a day of alcohol can
> significantly exacerbate the potential harm of NSAIDS. Both stress
> the liver, which is another very common target of NSAID damage.

My pharmacist attached a red label NO ALCOHOL on every bottle
of naproxen he filled for me.

After the 3rd or 4th time, I asked him, "Is this a total ban?"

He asked what I took.

I replied, "1 or 2 glasses of wine a week."

He shrugged his shoulders and stated, "No problem.  Those
warning are for 6-pack-a-night Joe's."
I.P. Freely - 20 Jan 2007 03:15 GMT
>> Bear in mind that even just a drink or two a day of alcohol can
>> significantly exacerbate the potential harm of NSAIDS. Both stress
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>  He shrugged his shoulders and stated, "No problem.  Those
>  warning are for 6-pack-a-night Joe's."

From what I've read, the most recent level of concern has dropped to
right between those levels, at about a drink or two per day -- just the
amount that's supposed to be best for our hearts. Heck, if anything,
you'd be better off with a little more wine if you're still metabolizing
and eliminating those NSAIDS well without SEs.

Damn!

I.P.
Alan Meyer - 20 Jan 2007 05:52 GMT
>> ...
>>  He shrugged his shoulders and stated, "No problem.  Those
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> levels, at about a drink or two per day -- just the amount that's supposed to be best
> for our hearts.
...

I think people differ a lot in their tolerance for NSAIDs, as they do
for alcohol.  I speculate that the warnings are on the conservative
side to keep highly sensitive people from hurting themselves.  But
many others won't have any problem at the same level.

> Damn!

Yes.  There's something terribly civilized and relaxing about
a nice glass of whiskey or wine at the end of a day.

   Alan
I.P. Freely - 20 Jan 2007 06:55 GMT
>>> ...
>>>  He shrugged his shoulders and stated, "No problem.  Those
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> side to keep highly sensitive people from hurting themselves.  But
> many others won't have any problem at the same level.

Of course. But I don't bring SEs up to be contrary or when they are
truly rare and/or mild; I bring them up when I suspect people may be
unaware of SEs that have seriously harmed many people. These warnings
exist because so many people are killed by NSAIDS, so many more suffer
often irreversible liver damage from them with or without very moderate
levels of alcohol, and the safe level of alcohol with acetaminophen was
recently lowered. After all, that lady in Sacramento who died from
drinking too much water to win a Wii game box would be alive today if
any of the radio station staff had known that excess water intake
hospitalizes many competitive runners and kills in extreme cases, and 1)
some of the worst pain I've ever experienced, 2 & 3) my two closest
brushes with drug-induced death, 4) a permanently scarred face, and 5) a
year and counting of often extreme pain were five separate incidents due
to common, routine OTC drugs given to me by my doctors without proper
monitoring.

I.P.
Peter Headland - 22 Jan 2007 19:24 GMT
> 1) some of the worst pain I've ever experienced, 2 & 3) my two closest
> brushes with drug-induced death, 4) a permanently scarred face, and 5) a
> year and counting of often extreme pain were five separate incidents due
> to common, routine OTC drugs given to me by my doctors without proper
> monitoring.

C'mon IP, you can't just leave us on the edges of our seats now -
details, please! If nothing else, I'd like to know what the drugs
responsible were.

Signature

Peter Headland

I.P. Freely - 22 Jan 2007 23:20 GMT
>> 1) some of the worst pain I've ever experienced, 2 & 3) my two closest
>> brushes with drug-induced death, 4) a permanently scarred face, and 5) a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> details, please! If nothing else, I'd like to know what the drugs
> responsible were.

The short answer: laxative, Motrin, Benadryl, routine allergy shot, some
skin cream, a statin.

The details:

1. Ordinary OTC senna-based laxative recommended by my doctor produced
intense, fetal-position, gut-wrenching, prolonged pain that for the
first time in my adult life I cried over pain. *Then* I read the warning
against taking senna while one has an ulcer (the ulcer -- caused by
Motrin -- was not noticeable until the senna hit it.)

2. The VA gave be ordinary, OTC Benadryl to help me sleep after my RP,
despite warnings that it is a dangerous central nervous system
depressant when given with narcotics. It paralyzed me mentally and
physically, but even though my response to it alarmed them, I had to
refuse the same dosage again the next night, just as I had to repeatedly
refuse senna, which they tried to just pop down my throat with no
explanation after I refused it.

3. I caught a nurse about to inject me with ten times my proper allergy
shot (common juniper) dosage; she said it would very likely have sent me
into anaphylactic shock -- and I was driving.

4. A doc gave me a salve to heal aktinic keratoses (sun damaged skin) on
my cheeks. I asked about returning soon to check its effect, but he said
that was unnecessary, that it's harmless. When he saw me walking down a
hallway a few weeks later, he grabbed me in alarm, told me it wasn't
supposed to leave my face as red as fresh blood, said I had overreacted,
and treated THAT damage over the next year or so. It now looks like a
blush at worst. The same stupid doc also tried to sneak a steroid shot
into a sore elbow; only his nurse admitted he had misled me about the
shot's content and risks.

5. F-ing *statin*, Simvastatin in my case. Evidence is piling up, first
outside the U.S. but starting to surface here, that all statins cause
moderate to severe mental and/or physical SEs with many patients --
including many cases of Transient Global Amnesia and way too many
fatalities -- up to nearly 100% of pro-level athletes experiencing
debilitating muscle pain in at least one study  . . . and in me. The
pain is sometimes permanent; mine is now much less debilitating than it
was a year ago.

Then there's the majority of drug-related ER trips -- including an
annual fatality count bumping five figures -- due to ordinary OTC NSAIDS
such as aspirin, yet I know many people who pop them like candy along
with their morning coffee, boasting that they're on Team Advil -- in
their 20s.

I.P.
Peter Headland - 30 Jan 2007 18:38 GMT
Thanks IP - that is *very* useful information. I will be reviewing my
use of statins with my doctor on the basis of it - can you provide any
citations I can show to her?

PS: It's "actinic", not "aktinic" (I just threw that in to show that I
knew what it was). My father-in-law has skin like tissue-paper on his
right arm from years of driving in the tropics with his arm on the
window sill. As a result, I wear long-sleeve shirts or a good SPF 30+,
and a hat.

--
Peter Headland
I.P. Freely - 30 Jan 2007 19:56 GMT
> It's "actinic", not "aktinic" (I just threw that in to show that I
> knew what it was). My father-in-law has skin like tissue-paper on his
> right arm from years of driving in the tropics with his arm on the
> window sill. As a result, I wear long-sleeve shirts or a good SPF 30+,
> and a hat.

WARNING: ANECDOTAL "EVIDENCE" FOLLOWS; FAINT OF HEART SHOULD AVERT THEIR
EYES:
After a doc froze the AK off my forehead, he told me to virtually avoid
the sun for the rest of my life. That was a hundred thousand miles of
desert and tropical windsurfing ago, and we do *not* take mid-day
breaks, and my AK hasn't flared up again.

> Thanks IP - that is *very* useful information. I will be reviewing my
> use of statins with my doctor on the basis of it - can you provide any
> citations I can show to her?

The short answer: There is growing evidence, especially outside the
U.S., that statins cause far more muscle and joint pain and amnesia than
previously thought. Severe and debilitating pain [as I had] was
virtually ubiquitous with statin-treated pro athletes in one study.
After all, statin pts are strongly warned to report muscle pain
*immediately*; my doctor had me in her office, tested me for muscle
damage, and obtained the test results within hours of my initial phone
call. I encounter people fighting statin-induced muscle pain everywhere
I bring it up, especially in medical circles.

Caveat: I haven't yet researched this as extensively as I did ADT SEs,
because that urgent test showed my pain is not life-threatening, as some
statin-induced pain is. It was, however, more *urgent* than ADT, because
of the level (6-8?) and frequency (every time I moved) of pain, so I
quit my statin immediately.

For starters and effect, slam the book "Statin Drugs - Side Effects" by
astronaut physician Duane Graveline (see http://www.spacedoc.net/ ) down
on her desk. I know we can find books touting or pooh-poohing any
hypothesis under the sun, and I don't know where on the scale of gospel
to BS this one stands, but the man has qualifications out the wazoo,
footnotes many pages of specific references, presents convincing
arguments for laymen and physicians, was personally devastated by
statins, and the most brilliant man I've ever known personally was an
astronaut physician who met the same tough standards.

WARNING: LOOOOOOOONG references, with no pony underneath unless you have
 unexplained or statin-blamed muscle or joint pain or transient global
amnesia episodes:

Beyond that, Google. Examples:

Dear Dr. Mirkin: How common is muscle pain from cholesterol-
lowering drugs?
   
    Some patients with high cholesterol levels are afraid to
take statins because off fear of developing side effects such as
muscle pain.  A study from Scripps Mercy Hospital in San Diego
reviews the latest data on side effects of statins  (The American
Journal of Medicine, May 2006).  This review found that statin-
induced muscle damage is more common in Asians, people who
exercise, have had recent surgery, have kidney, liver or
thyroid disease, or have high triglycerides.  The incidence of
muscle pain and damage from statins is extremely low in non-
exercisers, three to ten percent in those who exercise, and very
high in competitive athletes.  Most athletes refuse to take statin
drugs because they train by taking a hard workout that damages
their muscles.  Then they must take easy workouts until the
soreness disappears and muscles heal. When statins prevent
this muscle healing, the athlete must train at reduced intensity for
a much longer period of time.  Brand names of statins include:
Altoprev, Crestor, Lipitor, Mevacor, Pravachol and Zocor.

Statins and muscle pains

From
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1365-2125.2003.02044.x
.
Professional athletes suffering from familial hypercholesterolaemia
rarely tolerate statin treatment because of muscular problems
H. Sinzinger & J. O'Grady*
 Aims
Muscular problems are the major group of side-effects during statin
treatment. They are known to occur much more frequently during and after
exercise.
 Methods and results
For the last 8 years we have monitored 22 professional athletes in whom,
because of familial hypercholesterolaemia, treatment with different
statins was attempted. Only six out of the 22 finally tolerated at least
one member of this family of drugs. In three of these six the first
statin prescribed allowed training performance without any limitation.
Changing the drug demonstrated that only two tolerated all the four or
five statins examined (atorvastatin, fluvastatin, lovastatin,
pravastatin, simvastatin). Cerivastatin was not among the statins
prescribed.
 Conclusions
These findings indicate that in top sports performers only about 20%
tolerate statin treatment without side-effects. Clinical decision making
as to lipid lowering therapy thus becomes a critical issue in this small
subgroup of patients.
 Introduction    Go to:    ChooseTop of pageIntroduction
<<MethodsResultsDiscussionReferencesThis article is cited by the
following articles in Blackwell Synergy and CrossRef               
Statins are one of the most widely used drugs worldwide because of their
clinical effectiveness [1]. Although rare, top sports performers
suffering from familial hypercholesterolaemia (FH) may require drug
treatment even at a young age. Muscular symptoms are the major group of
adverse side-effects among statin users, totaling about 5% in
multicentre-controlled studies [2]. The HPS-Study reported muscular
symptoms at a rate of 32.9% in the active treatment group and 33.2% in
the placebo group [3]. The number of more severe side-effects is quite
low, ranging below 0.1%[4, 5]. However, some years ago we found that
muscular side-effects during exercise clearly are related to statin
treatment even in the absence of elevated creatine kinase (CK) [6]. In
another study examining the role of exercise in patients with statin
treatment we realized that in those people performing regular strenuous
exercise side-effects, characterized as ache- and cramp-like symptoms as
well as muscular weakness, may increase, raising the possibility that as
many as 25% may suffer. In recent reviews [7, 8] exercise-induced pain
and the problem of statin use in top athletes is not even mentioned.
Throughout the years we have monitored a number of professional athletes
in whom FH had been diagnosed and at different stages statin treatment
was initiated. In this paper we describe the individual cases and
response to attempts to treat with various members of this family of
compounds.
 Methods    Go to:    ChooseTop of pageIntroductionMethods
<<ResultsDiscussionReferencesThis article is cited by the following
articles in Blackwell Synergy and CrossRef               
Patients were considered as professional athletes when they had attended
an Austrian championship at any age class during the last 2 years or
were playing in the top two leagues of their respective discipline (for
characteristics of athletes see Table 1). They all were suffering from
FH as diagnosed at the receptor level. No other drugs including vitamins
were taken for at least 4 weeks. Testing for anabolic steroids was done
in all athletes to exclude any possible influence. According to a
recommendation of the Austrian Cholesterol Consensus [9] the starting
dose of the respective statin was always the lowest available dose.
Logic for switching patients who tolerated a statin was that they did
not achieve target values. The shortest duration of treatment before
switching was 8 weeks.
Blood samples for CK and liver enzymes (GOT, GPT, γGT) were regularly
drawn at each monitoring interval.
 Results    Go to:    ChooseTop of pageIntroductionMethodsResults
<<DiscussionReferencesThis article is cited by the following articles in
Blackwell Synergy and CrossRef               
Except for cerivastatin all the other statins available were tried. Some
of the athletes refused to try a further compound (Table 2). When
initiating a statin therapy only three (numbers 5, 11, 15) out of 22
athletes (11%) tolerated the chosen drug (Table 2). Another three
patients (numbers 1, 2, 20) tolerated at least one statin, while only
two athletes (numbers 11 and 15) tolerated all the compounds used.
Switching to other compounds we realized that toleration was rare and 16
(78%) athletes did not tolerate any of the compounds tested (Table 2).
Symptoms experienced on the different statins in one and the same
athlete were very similar. The delay in reporting onset of symptoms was
longer during the first drug attempt, possibly because the athletes were
more alert to the possible emergence of muscle problems. After drug
withdrawal, symptoms in most of the patients disappeared within a few
days (< 1 week) and in all of them within 3 weeks. Patients 1 and 2 were
already reported in part in our earlier work describing statin
associated exercise-induced muscle pain without CK-alteration for the
first time [6]. An increase in CK above the value usually found in
professional athletes was not seen. In the present study an increase in
any of the liver enzymes was not observed in any of the athletes.
Testing for anabolic steroids was negative in all of them. Fenofibrate
given finally mainly to those athletes with extremely elevated Lp(a) did
not produce any adverse reaction in the six athletes treated so far.
 Discussion    Go to:    ChooseTop of
pageIntroductionMethodsResultsDiscussion <<ReferencesThis article is
cited by the following articles in Blackwell Synergy and CrossRef               
Thompson et al. first described exercise-induced skeletal muscle injury
with CK-elevation but in the absence of symptoms after lovastatin [10].
Prevalence of muscle pain without exercise may increase in hobby
athletes and even further in professional athletes. Regardless of the
biochemical background statin therapy and top athletics seem to be
almost incompatible. Whether top athletes are more likely to report
side-effects affecting the results remains open. Switching to nonstatin
lipid reduction therapy or (in less severe FH) to postpone treatment
seemed to be the only options available. As biopsy studies [2] and blood
examination [11] revealed an oxidation injury which may be further
aggravated by heavy exercise (the underlying pathogenesis being
unknown), withdrawal of statins until after finishing an athletic career
considering the usually high HDL these patients have may be advisable.
The decision, however, remains a very individual one based only on
experience and risk calculation rather than facts or recommendations
available.
The case report that incidental vitamin E administration improved
statin-induced muscle pains [12] led to the discovery that many of these
patients show increased lipid peroxidation while normally statin therapy
causes a decrease [13]. It has been described that in patients with
muscle problems on all the statins a withdrawal of the drug results in
cessation in muscular symptoms [14] as also seen in the athletes.
In the original description on exercise-induced muscle pain on statins
[6] problems in all the eight patients (six of them performing hobby
sports activities) disappeared after fluvastatin; in our group of top
athletes, however, the prevalence of side-effects on all the compounds
examined seemed to be comparable. The limitation of this observation is
the lack of a control. However, at least six of them tolerated some
statin. Our data are raising a concern on the use of statins in elite
professional athletics. In order to definitely test the hypothesis,
however, there is a strong need for a placebo-controlled trial of
statins in subjects undergoing intensive exercise.
In conclusion, our findings demonstrate that the great majority of
professional athletes with severe FH do not tolerate any of the statins
available.

From http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=16431 ,
Myositis (Muscle Inflammation)...Check The Meds!
Medical Author: William C. Shiel Jr., MD, FACP, FACR
I am a rheumatologist - an internal medicine specialist who is trained
to evaluate, diagnose, and treat diseases that involve the muscles and
joints. Because rheumatologists have a keen interest in undiagnosed
conditions, I see a number of patients every week who are seeking a
first diagnosis.
It is commonplace for doctors to refer patients to a rheumatologist for
the evaluation of painful muscles. There are many diseases that are
associated with inflammation of muscles. Furthermore, many conditions
may appear to involve muscles, but may actually be a result of disease
of the tendons, joints, or bones.
By way of illustration, I want to call viewers' attention to a patient
that I just saw in the office this week. I feel that this patient is
very representative of a muscle condition that is under appreciated
nowadays. I also know that patients and doctors should have a heightened
awareness of this condition since it is easily managed when discovered
early. When discovered late, it can lead to serious injury - not only to
the muscles, but also potentially to the kidneys and heart.
Mr. Jones is a 75 year old man who was referred by a cardiologist
because of pains and stiffness in the muscles of his arms, shoulders,
thighs, and buttocks. He has been taking Lipitor (atorvastatin) for six
months to control elevated cholesterol levels in his blood. Mr. Jones
reported muscle aching for the past eight weeks. He was also weak in the
locations of pain. Blood testing for the muscle enzyme, CPK, was mildly
elevated.
Now, here's the point:
Lipitor is a member of a class of cholesterol-lowering drugs called
statins. The statins include lovastatin (brand name: Mevacor),
simvastatin (Zocor), pravastatin (Pravachol), fluvastatin (Lescol),
atorvastatin (Lipitor), and cerivastatin (Baycol) (Baycol was withdrawn
from the market in August, 2001). Statin drugs are known to cause muscle
pains and inflammation around the muscle cells (myositis). It should
also be noted that the risk of muscle injury is greater when a statin is
combined with other drugs that also cause muscle damage by themselves.
For example, when lovastatin (Mevacor) is used alone to lower
cholesterol, muscle damage occurs on the average in one person out of
about every 500. However, if lovastatin (Mevacor) is used in combination
with other drugs such as niacin, gemfibrozil (Lopid) or fenofibrate
(Tricor) to further reduce cholesterol levels, the risk of muscle injury
skyrockets to one person out of every 20 to 100 who receive the
combination. The risk of muscle damage is thus multiplied 5 to 25-fold
by using a combination of a statin and another cholesterol-lowering drug
rather than by just using statin alone.
In fact, the manufacturers of statins recommend that any patient taking
a statin "should be advised to report promptly any unexplained muscle
pain, tenderness or weakness.... When a muscle disease is suggested, the
doctor stops the statin drug."
You see, statin drugs cause three types of muscle conditions. First,
they can cause muscle aching. This condition generally reverses itself
within weeks of discontinuing the drugs. Second, they can cause muscle
pains and mild muscle inflammation that may also be accompanied by minor
weakness. Blood testing for the muscle enzyme, CPK, is mildly elevated.
This condition also generally reverses, but it may take several months
to resolve. Third, statins can cause severe muscle inflammation and
damage so that not only are the muscles painful all over the body, they
also become severely weakened. Heart muscle can even (rarely) become
affected. Blood testing for the muscle enzyme, CPK, is markedly
elevated. When the muscles are severely damaged, the muscle cells
release proteins into the blood that collect in and can damage the
kidneys. This can lead to kidney failure and require dialysis.
In each of the above three forms of muscle conditions that result from
statin drugs, the outcome is always much better when the condition is
detected early.
My patient is expected to do well. I have discontinued his Lipitor and
his muscle pain and stiffness will resolve in the upcoming weeks. He
will follow-up with me in a month for a progress report.
There are many other medications (aside from statins) and diseases that
can cause muscle aching. Of all causes, however, statin drugs are what I
see as the most common culprits. If you or someone you know has muscle
pains, check the medications being taken first!
Finally, please understand that the statin drugs have been shown to be
the most effective (and widely prescribed) medications to optimally
lower cholesterol and prevent heart attacks and stroke. This perspective
article is intended to highlight the fact that even the best drugs
require monitoring and can have side effects.

For additional Doctor's Views written by Dr. Shiel, visit the Doctor's
Views Library.

From http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/cache/x20020702113831768120.htm ,
myalgia and myositis associated with statin treatment

The topic of side effects of statin therapy has become more prominent
since the precautionary withdrawal of cerivastatin following reports of
death and rhabdomyolysis with cerivastatin, particularly when given in
simultaneous combination therapy with gemfibrozil. Also many patients
complain of myalgia when on treatment with statins with this side effect
having an incidence of up to 5%.
Myositits
mild myositis is associated with painful muscles and CK elevation. Some
suggest withdrawal of statin therapy is indicated in patients whose CK
rises 10-fold to levels about 2,000 IU/L (1) whilst others suggest that
'patients experiencing muscle pain, weakness or cramps whilst should
have their CK level measured. If this is significantly elevated (>5x
upper limit of normal) or if myopathy is suspected, treatment should be
stopped (2)'
rhabdomyolysis (characterised by plasma CK > 20,000 IU/L, myoglobinuria
and extreme muscular pain) occurs in about 1 in 250,000 patients and is
commoner in females, the elderly, hypothyroidism and with concomitant
therapy with cytochrome P450 3A4 metabolised drugs e.g. cyclosporin,
erythromycin, and fibrates (particularly gemfibrozil)
Myalgia
far commoner than myositis and is not accompanied by any rise in CK levels
the mechanism is obscure but it has been noted that by inhibiting
hydroxy-methyl-glutaryl (HMG)-CoA reductase, statins also reduce
isoprenoid intermediates of cholesterol synthesis, including those that
are utilised in the manufacture of ubiquinone which is essential for
electron transport in mitochondria
The Committee on Safety of medicines recommends various measures to
reduce the risk of myopathy with HMG CoA reductase inhibitors (1):
dosage instructions should be adhered to strictly (see product
information). The maximum recommended dosage should not be exceeded and
any adjustment of dosage should be made at intervals of 4 weeks or more
careful consideration should be given to statin use in patients who are
at an increased risk of developing myopathy (see below):
patients with underlying muscle disorders, renal impairment,
hypothyroidism or alcohol abuse
concomitant use of other lipid lowering agents i.e. gemfibrozil, other
fibrates or nicotinic acid
concomitant use of cytochrome P450 3A4 inhibitors including macrolide
antibiotics, cyclosporin, azole antifungals (e.g. ketoconazole and
itraconazole) and protease inhibitors
in these patients baseline measurement and monitoring of CK should be
considered. If CK is >5 times the upper limit of normal (ULN) at
baseline then treatment with a statin should not be commenced
patients are made aware of the risk of myopathy, including
rhabdomyolysis, and asked to report promptly any muscle pain, weakness
or tenderness, particularly if accompanied by fever, malaise or dark urine
if a patient experiences muscle pain weakness or cramps whilst on
treatment then this is an incidation for CK measurement. If CK is
significantly elevated (>5x ULN) or if myopathy is suspected then
treatment should be stopped, while the patient is monitored for muscular
symptoms and cardiovascular risk
if the symptoms resolve and CK levels return to normal, re-introduction
of the statin or introduction of an alternative statin may be
considered. This should initially be at the lowest dose and with close
monitoring
Reference:
The British Journal of Cardiology (2002), 9 (4), 193-4.
Current Problems in Pharmacovigilance (2002), 28, 8-9.

From http://medrants.com/index.php/archives/564#comment-436 :
Coenzyme Q and Statins - Plausible Mechanism for Statin-Induced Myopathy
and Neuropathy.
Theory was clear for over a decade How Statins Cause
Myopathy & Neuropathy
Statins inhibit the enzyme HMG-CoA Reductase, many
steps before the final formation of Cholesterol in the mevalonate pathway.
This same pathway is used to synthesize the essential biochemical
Coenzyme Q10 (aka Coenzyme Q 10, CoQ10, Ubiquinone).
Thus a major side effect predicted for statins is to reduce Coenzyme
Q10, with consequent danger to Heart and Skeletal Muscle. This was
trivially obvious for theoretical reasons before statins came to be used
medically, to medical research scientists or pre-medical students. The
effect would be most pronounced in cells that have high metabolic rates,
for instance muscle cells and nerve cells.
Reduction in Coenzyme Q10 may cause Myopathy, Neuropathy,
Rhabdomyolysis, Exercise Intolerance, and recurrent Myoglobinuria, based
on decades of research:
Scarlato G, Comi GP.
Metabolic and drug-induced muscle disorders.
Curr
Opin Neurol. 2002 Oct;15(5):533-8
Farley TM, Scholler J, Folkers K.
Response of genetically dystrophic
mice to therapy with hexahydrocoenzyme Q4.
Biochem Biophys Res Commun.
1966 Aug 12;24(3):299-303.
These aspects of Statin action were also noted in patents that issued in
1990, Patent numbers 4,933,165 (May 29, 1990) and 4,929,437 (June 12,
1990) both to Merck.

From a footnote in http://www.ptjournal.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/459  :
“We conclude that HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors exacerbate
exercise-induced skeletal muscle injury.”

Dr. Mercola has a BIG statin file at
http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/21/statin_drugs.htm.

From http://www.thecureforheartdisease.com/owen/coq10.htm  :
Very brief entry from large body of literature research: “Ubiquinone
(CoQ10) is a popular heart medication.  Until 2001, it was only
available by prescription in Japan. The public is hardly aware that an
increasingly popular class of cardiovascular drugs called statins
(HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors) interfere with the body’s synthesis of
CoQ10. [*] Top selling statin drugs, such as LipitorÒ and ZocorÒ, earn
their makers in excess $20 billion per year. These drugs lower the
endogenous production of cholesterol and are often touted as “life
saving” by cardiologists and the Media.
Are the statin drugs really good for us, or are cardiologists mistaken?
 How can drugs that lower the body’s production of CoQ10 benefit heart
patients?  Are the health benefits attributed to CoQ10 supplementation
hype or is it that there is something fundamentally wrong with the
thinking and science being used by those who market statin drugs?

Adverse Side Effects of Statin Cholesterol Lowering Drugs:
The following headlines from BOLENREPORT.COM reveal the many
little-known side effects of the 'artificial' Statin drugs, some of
which are required to be reported in Canadian statin drug ads, but not
the U. S. versions.
Statin Cholesterol Lowering Drugs:

1.   Deplete the ubiquinone (vitamin-like) Coenzyme Q10 causing
cardiomyopthy and heart failure
2.      Change, weaken, damage or destroy muscle (depending on dose and
concomitant use of other drugs)
3.      Do not slow atherosclerosis
4.      Induce sudden total memory loss
5.      Increase eye cataract risk
6.      Suppress immune function
7.      Are linked to cancer
8.      Have been linked for 10-years with Rhabdomyolysis and Myoglobinuria
9.      Have been linked with elevated transaminase (indicator of liver
and kidney damage)
10.  Are linked to nerve damage
11.  Induce muscle pain
12.  Do not extend life
13.  Increase serum Lp(a) concentrations** (Increasing odds of heart
attack or stroke up to 70% SOURCE: CIRCULATION)
14.  Reduce left ventricular function,
15.  Elevate the lactate to pyruvate ratio
16.  Enhance LDL cholesterol oxidation
17.  Would be expected to interfere with any function (e.g. sex hormone
production, hair growth, sleep, or proper brain and nerve function) that
depends on cholesterol or CoQ10
18.  Are prescribed to 13 million (in the U.S., 25 million worldwide)
creating a $20b market
19.  Are MORTAL (else will cause 65,000 predicted myopathies Source:
Merck Patent)
NOTE: Biopsy only reliable test for statin induced myopathy
Conclusion
Apparently a 20 billion dollar market has blinded some scientists.
Merck and the other pharmaceutical companies have known about the CoQ10
biosynthesis “issue” for more than a decade.  (Few medical doctors in
the U.S. are aware of this problem.) There exists no theory that
justifies the use of statin drugs. This author has seen no data or
evidence that demonstrates any real health benefit for statin drug use
in most people that overcomes the proven detriment of hampering the
production of CoQ10.  ”

From
http://www.cbc.ca/story/science/national/2005/03/02/Crestor050302.html  :
Roles of Exercise and Pharmacokinetics in Cerivastatin-Induced Skeletal
Muscle Toxicity
Jennifer L. Seachrist*,1, Cho-Ming Loi, Mark G. Evans*, Kay A. Criswell*
and Charles E. Rothwell*
* Safety Sciences Department, and  Pharmacokinetics, Dynamics and
Metabolism Department, Pfizer Global Research & Development, 2800
Plymouth Road, Ann Arbor, Michigan 48105
Received July 21, 2005; accepted August 24, 2005
Three-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl coenzyme A (HMG-CoA) reductase inhibitors
are associated with adverse skeletal muscle effects, but the underlying
mechanisms remain unclear. To determine whether toxicity involves the
level of drug exposure in muscle tissue and to test the effect of
exercise on cerivastatin (CVA)-induced skeletal muscle damage, female
rats were administered vehicle or CVA at 0.1, 0.5, and 1.0 mg/kg/day by
gavage for two weeks and exercised or not on treadmills for 20 min/day.
Clinical chemistry and plasma and tissue pharmacokinetics were
evaluated; light and transmission electron microscopy (TEM) of Type I
and Type II fiber-predominant skeletal muscles were performed. Serum
levels of AST, ALT, CK, and plasma lactic acid were significantly
elevated dose-dependently. CVA treatment decreased psoas and quadriceps
weights. At 1 mg/kg all muscles except soleus demonstrated degeneration.
Exercise-exacerbated severity of CVA-induced degeneration was evident in
all muscles sampled except soleus and quadriceps. Early mitochondrial
involvement in toxicity is suggested by the numerous membranous whorls
and degenerate mitochondria observed in muscles at 0.5 mg/kg. No
significant differences in CVA concentrations between either EDL and
soleus or plasma and muscle were found. We found that CVA had no effect
on cleaved caspase 3. In summary, we found that treadmill exercise
exacerbated the incidence and severity of CVA-induced damage in Type II
fiber-predominant muscles. Tissue exposure is likely not the key factor
mediating CVA-induced skeletal muscle toxicity.

From
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra
ctPlus&list_uids=14728975&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum


Evaluation of ubiquinone concentration and mitochondrial function
relative to cerivastatin-induced skeletal myopathy in rats.
Schaefer WH, Lawrence JW, Loughlin AF, Stoffregen DA, Mixson LA, Dean
DC, Raab CE, Yu NX, Lankas GR, Frederick CB.
SNIP The results of this study suggest that neither mitochondrial
injury, nor a decrease in muscle ubiquinone levels, is the primary cause
of skeletal myopathy in cerivastatin-dosed rats.

But the next one seems to contradict that:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra
ctPlus&list_uids=15902968&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum


Statin-induced muscle necrosis in the rat: distribution, development,
and fibre selectivity.
Westwood FR, Bigley A, Randall K, Marsden AM, Scott RC.
Safety Assessment, AstraZeneca, Macclesfield, Cheshire SK10 4TG, United
Kingdom. russell.westwood@astrazeneca.com
Simvastatin and cerivastatin have been used to investigate the
development of statin-induced muscle necrosis in the rat. This was
similar for both statins and was treatment-duration dependent SNIP
These findings suggest an important early involvement of mitochondria in
selective glycolytic muscle fibre necrosis following inhibition of the
enzyme HMG-CoA reductase.

I.P.

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