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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / December 2006an interesting situation
Yesterday hubby had a check up and a PSA test done. I'm waiting for the results now and will post them as soon as we know. (Yes, I'm crossing my fingers!) Anyway, we're sitting in this huge waiting room that serves quite a few doctors and the big TV hanging from the ceiling is running with all these mini-info shows on various types of cancer. Being this is a VA facility it's predominately males in the waiting area. I noticed as we sat down that most of the men were watching the TV. These little shows were well done and interesting. We sat through about two and a half shows when we were called back to see the doctor. When we came out hubby had to process through the desk there so my attention went back to the big screen. It was on prostate cancer. I would have liked to have sat back down and watched it but hubby had to go to the lab, etc, and we were both looking forward to a lousy cup of coffee. But what shocked me was not one single person was watching the show on prostate cancer. Not one!!! Every person in there before except for the two men who were cat napping were glued to the TV during the skin cancer show. What the heck happened? Why weren't they watching? When are men going to face up to the fact that they chance having prostate cancer and the more they know the better off they will be? I wanted to scream, "watch the TV!" But I didn't. I did walk away rather pissed at the men sitting there. I doubt there was anyone under the age of 45 in that room, when I came out there was one wife sitting with her husband (don't know where the other two were), probably 60% of the men were black, and no one was watching! Damn, it makes me mad. :-( Bev > Yesterday hubby had a check up and a PSA test done. I'm waiting for the > results now and will post them as soon as we know. (Yes, I'm crossing my [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > know where the other two were), probably 60% of the men were black, and no > one was watching! Damn, it makes me mad. No use telling us, Beverley, we weren't there. Mary Mary, it seems that Beverley was just venting a little and passing along her thoughts on a very serious subject. Your response to her seemed a little over the top and maybe even hateful. It's the holidays ... put a smile in your voice. Jean >> Yesterday hubby had a check up and a PSA test done. I'm waiting for the >> results now and will post them as soon as we know. (Yes, I'm crossing my [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Mary > Mary, it seems that Beverley was just venting a little and passing along > her thoughts on a very serious subject. Your response to her seemed a > little over the top and maybe even hateful. Imagine that! >> Mary, it seems that Beverley was just venting a little and passing along >> her thoughts on a very serious subject. Your response to her seemed a >> little over the top and maybe even hateful. > > Imagine that! That's rich from someone who suggested that Bev's sister was unfaithful! > Mary, it seems that Beverley was just venting a little and passing along > her thoughts on a very serious subject. Your response to her seemed a > little over the top and maybe even hateful. <puzzled> That's your perception, it wasn't intended like that! It was more a statement of shared frustrations. I wonder why you saw hate in it ... I'm sorry you felt affronted, I hope Beverley didn't, I'm sure she knows that if any of us had been there we'd have been watching the film. > It's the holidays ... put a smile in your voice. What holidays? It's not a holiday here ... <puzzled again> Mary >> It's the holidays ... put a smile in your voice. > > What holidays? It's not a holiday here ... <puzzled again> Mary, the last time I checked, the UK also celebrates Christmas and Hannukah. Take your pick. It isn't just ONE day. Even up in Yorkshire they celebrate the above holidays (G). Merry Christmas.......Heather >>> It's the holidays ... put a smile in your voice. >> >> What holidays? It's not a holiday here ... <puzzled again> >> > Mary, the last time I checked, the UK also celebrates Christmas and > Hannukah. Take your pick. It isn't just ONE day. Ah - well, we're not Jewish and it's still Advent - the time of preparation for Christmas, for us. Christmas will begin for us when we get back from the midnight Christmas Eve service, the house will be transformed and it will be wonderful! Until then it's all work, not a holiday at all :-) And Christmas will last through the octave - eight days. Then it's back to work ... > Even up in Yorkshire they celebrate the above holidays (G). Yes, but we don't all start after bonfire night :-) Mary From: beverly.brown28@verizon.net (Beverley) When we came out hubby had to process through the desk there so my attention went back to the big screen. It was on prostate cancer. But what shocked me was not one single person was watching the show on prostate cancer. Not one!!! When are men going to face up to the fact that they chance having prostate cancer and the more they know the better off they will be? I wanted to scream, "watch the TV!" But I didn't. ====== hi bev - you are not alone on this one. i've seen it too. even when i talk to men about the prostate and it's problems, i get that deer in the headlight look. guess that's the difference between men and women - i don't know. all i do know is that it seems that AFTER a man gets prostate cancer, he is VERY much aware of this and wish he knew MORE before he developed pca. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc > From: beverly.brown28@verizon.net (Beverley) > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > is VERY much aware of this and wish he knew MORE before he developed > pca. Indeed. But if Bev HAD screamed at the non-audience she'd have been considered a bossy harriden :-( On the other hand, we can't know about everything in life before it happens. And some men - and women - might not WANT to know, it's their right. I believe it's known as 'denial' <sigh> It's the same the whole world over ... Mary > I would have liked to have sat back down and watched it but hubby had to go > to the lab, etc, and we were both looking forward to a lousy cup of coffee. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > cancer and the more they know the better off they will be? I wanted to > scream, "watch the TV!" But I didn't. I promoted and presented an open, friendly, even humorous talk on PC to our homeowners' association of 300 families, mostly middle age and seniors. Three people -- two wives and a man -- showed. I.P. Dear IP, > I promoted and presented an open, friendly, even humorous talk on PC to > our homeowners' association of 300 families, mostly middle age and > seniors. Three people -- two wives and a man -- showed. > > I.P. I have seen the pca show and the skin cancer show, several episodes of it in fact. First JJ had the melanoma, then the squamous cell and a couple of weeks ago a basal cell (not the first). In our house we have a kind of skin ca "du jour". Then there is that beaut of a melanoma my mother had when she was pregnant w/me ages ago. And let's not forget sister-in-law Lori's black beauty mark. Just so you know, there is no such thing as a "sexy cancer". If you invite me to your home to watch ANY ca show I will tell you flat out, "I would love to attend but I have all this ironing I am just dying to do". Otherwise, send me an invite and I will be right over. The sad thing is that my husb's doc and maybe your doc, too, didn't bother to watch the right "shows". They are the ones who you hope will be "aware" of things, cross your fingers, anyway. A man wrote in another NG the other day: "I have an unsupportive wife. She is always telling me what a dufice I am for not having known what a PSA test was. Even at age 64." I wrote back: Well, yes, I can relate (to her) but you (and my husb) are only SO dumb. Bottom line is the buck stops with the doc. Not you." > I promoted . . . humorous talk on PC Reminds me of what I went thru here trying to master netlingo. The hardest thing was, "O.T. Humor". Each time I saw that tagline I would say to to myself, "I was raised on the Old Testament and I never found it in the least bit funny. More like scared me to death." Now what exactly do you find humorous in ca? Miss ya. LFC > Dear IP, > Now what exactly do you find humorous in ca? In Officer's Training School we got 4-5 auditorium lectures most days, on a huge variety of topics. All the instructors were very good to excellent, but one really stood out. He kept us laughing so hard we had tears running down our cheeks as we wrote furiously to keep up with the subject information he was firehosing us with. I've never laughed that hard or continuously at any professional stand-up comic, and have seldom recorded such densely packed notes. When we learned we were his last class before his three-year teaching stint ended (he had a "real" Air Force job normally; this was a sideline), we leaped to our feet and gave him a rousing, heart-felt, long ovation. The time was Oct, 1968. Most of us were going to Viet Nam at its peak. His topic was survivors' care and benefits . . . all about what happens to and for our widows. Humor is all in the presentation. I.P. So at what base were you stationed? > > Dear IP, > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > I.P. > So at what base were you stationed? Lackland Air Force Base, Texas for training; then Rome AFB in upstate New York; then Holloman AFB in southern New Mexico; then Hill AFB near Salt Lake City, Utah; then Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque, NM. Only three moves (after training) in 20 years, and every one hand-picked. Contrast that to a friend who moved 21 times in 20 years, none of them his choosing. Average runs more like 5-6 moves, I suppose, few by one's own choosing. I.P. I'm sorry I meant to ask what base you were at in Nam (if you were there)? > > So at what base were you stationed? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I.P. > I'm sorry I meant to ask what base you were at in Nam (if you were there)? I was never assigned there, and even though I contributed directly to our efforts in that war and the larger Cold War, I try to make it clear to people that I am not among the elite group known as combat veterans. Most of those who went to war involuntarily are a special class of soldier, and today's volunteer forces are off the chart. I.P. My husband knew he was about to be drafted so he chose to join the Air Force. He spent his tour in Cam Ranh Bay. He was home based at Langley AFB. He served his country with pride just as his father had done (WWII -Pearl Harbor) and his grandfather (WWI). His father was career Navy and his grandfather was disabled during WWI and later died of his injuries. His father survived Pearl Harbor and later was on a ship in the Pacific that was bombed and towed back sans sailors. It's an interesting family military history. Bev > > I'm sorry I meant to ask what base you were at in Nam (if you were there)? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I.P. > My husband knew he was about to be drafted so he chose to join the Air > Force. Same here. I couldn't imagine then anyone going into the military voluntarily, especially during that war, but my tune has changed since then. I.P. Hi Bev, The following is a link to an Us Too effort to raise Pca awareness. http://www.prostatecancerrunwalknroll.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Sneakers_at_W ork_Involved&printer_friendly=1&JServSessionIdr011=h56qtfa903.app7a I'm going to do my best to get participation within our Co. (we have approx. 100 male employees in the "Mature Age Group", that should be somewhat interested in pitching in. I know of at least of 6 that I speak to on a regular basis that have had a personal experience with Pca. I believe that most men (not those who participate in this forum) would choose to sit tight and be silent and suffer, rather than openly discuss issues that they deem to be a private or personal issue. Can you imagine this scenario? Two Ironworkers, working 30 floors above the ground and one says to the other, "Gee, I couldn't get it up last night, or "I don't know what happened, but I just wet my pants". It's a macho / stupitity thing. Tom > Yesterday hubby had a check up and a PSA test done. I'm waiting for the > results now and will post them as soon as we know. (Yes, I'm crossing my [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > :-( > Bev > I believe that most men (not those who participate in this forum) would > choose to sit tight and be silent and suffer, rather than openly discuss > issues that they deem to be a private or personal issue. Well, what would you have them do? pre-diagnosis, I had an annual physical with a full blood screen, cholesterol, cell counts, obscure chemicals, sugar, and PSA. The doc also gave me the finger, did that every year since I was 40. He took my BP, listened to my breathing and every 3 or 4 years did an EKG. Of course, I never gave prostate cancer a thought. Why should I? Why should anyone? There's a thought in this newsgroup that "We need to build awareness." and "talk about it." Why? If you don't have it, don't worry about it. It should not rise above the 5 minutes-a-year check-up, where your doc says, "PSA's OK, but let's take a feel." It's the same as him saying, "BP and cholesterol's OK, but I want you to go for a cardiac stress test." You do it, and, it's done. It is different after diagnosis. Then there's a LOT to think about. Until then, other than the annual physical, the only other time that I was even aware that I had a prostate was 30 years ago, a woman said that she wanted to give me a special treat. "First, we'll take a shower together, get soapy clean everywhere, and I mean everywhere." I can still feel those soapy slippery breasts rubbing my back while she reached around and between to suds up. We got dried off and snuck into her bedroom, fortunately her roomate had her door shut. She said, "lie back, I'll get this K-Y all over my finger and suck on you while I slide my finger right in ...." Ho! Whoa! What! What! What are you doing??!!!! "-mmmffff- You just enjoy yourself. -mmmffff- Come in my mouth when you feel like it." That gal could be demanding but sometimes she felt like playing the submissive, total woman. -kh 30 years ago??? It's very simple. Many/most men don't want to be seen intently watching because they will assume, perhaps correctly, that the others are looking at them thinking, "Poor guy; he probably can't get it up." PCa = ED = loss of manhood. No man wants to be perceived that way. Sometimes when I tell people I had my prostate removed I can almost hear the wheels turning in their heads. Bill Denton RP 2/12/02 PSA 1.10 Memphis > It's very simple. Many/most men don't want to be seen intently watching > because they will assume, perhaps correctly, that the others are > looking at them thinking, "Poor guy; he probably can't get it up." PCa > = ED = loss of manhood. No man wants to be perceived that way. What makes you think they're assuming that? Prostate cancer can = death = loss of everything. > Sometimes when I tell people I had my prostate removed I can almost > hear the wheels turning in their heads. All the more reason why you should continue :-) Mary Mary Fisher wrote: "What makes you think they're assuming that? Prostate cancer can = death = loss of everything." Mary, you have to understand the male psyche. Before you get PCa you don't think you will, and even then you don't think you'll die of it. But you do fear that it will be the loss of your manhood. And, until actually faced w/ the prospect of death, that seems a fate was worse than death. Bill Denton RP 2/12/02 PSA 1.10 Memphis Bill, Without questioning your point about the importance of sexuality in "manhood", it seems to me inaccurate to say that most men, or even many men, would view the loss of erections as "a fate worse than death." Maybe a few, but when the possibility of death seems remote, such a tangible potential loss, which is far easier to imagine than the harder-to-fathom idea of not existing, may certainly seem worse than the alternative that doesn't seem real. As you say, "Before you get PCa you don't think you will die, and even then you don't think you'll die of it." I'm sure we agree that it's a choice that no man wants to have to make, and one which most healthy men (as far as they know) would rather not think about. For that reason it's certainly a less comfortable topic for discussion (or TV viewing) than, say, skin cancer. Tom > Mary Fisher wrote: "What makes you think they're assuming that?Prostate cancer can = death = loss of everything." > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > PSA 1.10 > Memphis > Bill, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > you don't think you will die, and even then you don't think you'll die > of it." I think that my having breast cancer might have made a difference to Spouse's attitude - but we were both matter of fact about that too so I'm not sure. Mary > Mary Fisher wrote: "What makes you think they're assuming that? > Prostate cancer can = death = loss of everything." [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > actually faced w/ the prospect of death, that seems a fate was worse > than death. I don't understand anyone else's psyche :-) But I don't believe that all men think like that. I'm married to one who didn't. After RRP in September he's gradually gaining his EF to the pleasure of both of us but only last night he said if he had to choose he'd rather be continent and impotent than the other way round. He's been 100% continent since a few days after the catheter came out. We've had more than our fair share of lovemaking for the last fifty years :-) The general trend isn't right for everyone :-) Mary > After RRP in September he's gradually gaining his EF to the pleasure of both > of us but only last night he said if he had to choose he'd rather be > continent and impotent than the other way round. I've seen that sentiment expressed in other posts. The thing about being impotent is that, there are ways to cope. >From my VERY limited experience, about a quarter to a third of women aren't that eager to have a hard weenie plunging in and out of them. About half prefer a tongue lashing, as in, "Yes-yes, run the tip up the left side again but slower. brrrrrr, Oh yes, slower. Tell me again how delicious I am." Even if willie is limp, here's a technique that MAY restore intimacy. I call it the KH #6. Get yourselves all fresh and relaxed. A romantic track on the iPOD. Fresh flowers. A scented candle, the lights are off. Have her lie back, you take the time to remove her remaining garments, kiss her breasts and pay special attention to her nipples. Take a few minutes to admire them, kissing them over and over, but slowly and mutter things like "perfect" and "gorgeous". Reach down and touch her between her legs, use a very light touch. Using your fingertips, outline her lips through the cotton. Smooth her thighs. Then bend over and kiss her lightly through her panties. You may feel like panting or inhaling her perfume, go ahead. The sound of your breathing should fill the room. Say something like, "I feel like I'm 19 again." or just groan. Reach under her panties and very slowly feel for her womanhood. Stop. Stop and take another breath. Take your hand out and begin sliding her panties down. She'll raise her hips for you. Toss them away. Kiss her inner thighs, kiss her tummy. Run your fingertips along side her outer labia. She's still on her back. Have her bend her knees forming an arch. Lie under the arch with your hips and front against her bottom. Curl around her on one side and kiss her breasts and nipples. While sucking on her nipples, reach between her legs and take willie by the scruff of his neck. Very slowly rub his head up and down her labia. If he's still limp, fine. Just rub him up and down like a big slippery tongue, up and down. For you, that'd be side to side. Don't worry about being less than stuffable. You're just lapping at her with willie, no need to try for the plunge if you're not ready yet. Take your time. -kh So are you ready to write a full romance novel? You are certainly capable of writing the dirty parts. LOL Bev > > After RRP in September he's gradually gaining his EF to the pleasure of both > > of us but only last night he said if he had to choose he'd rather be [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > -kh > So are you ready to write a full romance novel? You are certainly capable of > writing the dirty parts. LOL If people want, I'll keep working on these "action scenes". I tried writing a full novel about the Civil War but it was exhausting. Between the research and the character development, I gave up several times. This prostate cancer is a, er, ah, ball buster, so to speak. The threads about "why don't guys want to learn about it", coping with side effects, the tragedies, deaths, and that's probably the tip of the iceberg. Who wants to learn about that? I find it frustrating when the docs, nurses, and books talk around the subject, "oh, you can maintain intimacy" -cough-. Best I can tell, every one experiences impotence. I had it for about a year. If my PSA keeps rising, I'll have it again. The doc's talking Casodex and Lupon in my future. Some men avoid treatment because they fear the side effects. That billionaire, Lamar Hunt, diagnosed in 1998, was it. Surgery in 2003? What was he doing for 5 years? My guess is having as much penetrative sex as possible. His father, H.L., had 3 or 4 wives at the same time so maybe he was following the family tradition. Impotence is a big deal to most men and some women. I don't know the percentages but I'd guess that while many women enjoy penetrative, wet sex, an equally large percentage, if not the majority, would be just has happy with a half hour, hot oil back and foot massage, followed by a session of licking, nibbling, sucking that brings them to 2 or 3 orgasms. Especially if their guy gets into it with imagination, heavy snorting, and bellowing. Then the next day, he cooks and serves her breakfast, 3 flowers on the tables, "one for each orgasm last night." -kh > If people want, I'll keep working on these "action scenes". I dunno. I suspect there are plenty of porn sites and newsgroups dedicated to this sort of thing where one could get his/her fill, and where kh could exercise his literary skills. Do we really need these "action scenes" here? Seems like we visited this issue a couple of years ago...lost some members over it.  SignatureJerryW Please respond to group; email address is not valid 2/11/04 PSA 2.6, Suspicious DRE (age 62) 2/23/04 Biopsy: Gleason 3+4=7, T2a, left lobe 5/18/04 RRP, Path: Gleason 4+3=7, T2c, both lobes Fully continent by 9/04 PSA <0.1 since I've always tried to be careful when asked about something or commenting and so far I've been successful. But yes, I remember when another female wrote something that was honest but explicit and she got blasted over it. So I have been surprised that no one has said anything to KH about what he has written. Maybe they are all too busy enjoying it? Probably half the guys here either don't have a partner or they have disinterested partners. The other half already knows how to use their fingers and tongue so they don't need any directions. LOL Bev > > If people want, I'll keep working on these "action scenes". > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Seems like we visited this issue a couple of years ago...lost some members > over it. I'm not at all a prude, and I didnt take any offense at that lady who upset some of the posters. I also am grateful that we can be open and honest here. That said, I agree with Jerry that this kind of graphic detail is a bit over the top for this kind of forum. > I've always tried to be careful when asked about something or commenting > and [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> members >> over it. > I've always tried to be careful when asked about something or commenting > and > so far I've been successful. But yes, I remember when another female wrote > something that was honest but explicit and she got blasted over it. So I > have been surprised that no one has said anything to KH about what he has > written. Maybe they are all too busy enjoying it? Or bored? A couple of lines and I closed, I'm not interested in second hand sex. Mary > I've always tried to be careful when asked about something or commenting and > so far I've been successful. But yes, I remember when another female wrote > something that was honest but explicit and she got blasted over it. So I > have been surprised that no one has said anything to KH about what he has > written. It's been said; you simply missed it. And stuff far less blatant drove a father away in a big huff a year or so ago because his 14 yo daughter read -- past tense -- the forum. I feel it denigrates the forum because it is obviously prurient and explicitly goes beyond dispensing information, and is likely to deter newbies from joining the group and/or attract a whole new group of newbies we don't need. I have magazines and catalogs for the purpose these stories serve. Oh, crap; see you guys in half an hour. I.P. >If people want, I'll keep working on these "action scenes". Keep up the fine work - and book me a front seat when you start the master classes.. "Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:4582d79e$0$763$ > After RRP in September he's gradually gaining his EF to the pleasure of > both of us but only last night he said if he had to choose he'd rather be > continent and impotent than the other way round. He's been 100% continent > since a few days after the catheter came out. One of the doctors I have read (it may have been Walsh) discussed this. He said the impotency is something a man has to deal with intermittantly (sp?), but the incontinence is a daily and continual inconvenience. Obviously not a great choice, but I would be surprised if most men wouldnt agree with your husband. > "Mary Fisher" <mary.fisher@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message > news:4582d79e$0$763$ [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Obviously not a great choice, but I would be surprised if most men wouldnt > agree with your husband. I would have thought so too but rsome of the recent posts here have suggested that erections are THE most important thing to a man. When I joined the breast cancer support ng I was saddened at the reaction of women who had to lose a breast. I'd rather lose a breast - or both - than a hand ... few agreed with me. When I had brain surgery there was a beautiful young woman in the ward who had an operable tumour, like mine. She refused surgery because she couldn't bear the thought of having her head shaved. She discharged herself. I'd like to think that she changed her mind, if not she'll be dead now :-( Mary Mary Fisher wrote: "What makes you think they're assuming that? Prostate cancer can = death = loss of everything." Mary, you have to understand the male psyche. Before you get PCa you don't think you will, and even then you don't think you'll die of it. But you do fear that it will be the loss of your manhood. And, until actually faced w/ the prospect of death, that seems a fate was worse than death. Bill Denton RP 2/12/02 PSA 1.10 Memphis Dear Bill, > Sometimes when I tell people I had my prostate removed I can almost > hear the wheels turning in their heads. > > Bill Denton Yes, especially my sister. When she asks me, "How is he"? I know what it is she REALLY wants to know. And I won't give her the satisfaction of hearing it. The other day a woman mentioned the name of a website where you can order blue ribbons from. I will get myself one and one for my mother but don't expect Him to be wearing one anytime soon. Happy holidays. Leah I have a great blue ribbon enamel pin (tie tack) that I bought through our local hospital's gift shop. Since I hardly ever wear anything other than my rings and remembering to put it on would be impossible for me I have it on my purse. No one has ever said a word about it. My hubby is not going to wear a blue ribbon or bracelet. As a kid he wore a St. Christopher's medal. His mom tried to give him a beautiful gold chain necklace for Xmas a couple of years ago. (Dummy, he gave it back to her; he could have just said thank you and given it to me. LOL) He wears a pen in his pocket and occasionally a watch. So I'm the one with the blue! Bev > Dear Bill, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Leah On December 14, Beverley wrote, in pertinent part: > My hubby is not going to wear a blue ribbon or bracelet. As a kid he wore a > St. Christopher's medal. His mom tried to give him a beautiful gold chain > necklace for Xmas a couple of years ago. (Dummy, he gave it back to her; he > could have just said thank you and given it to me. LOL) He wears a pen in > his pocket and occasionally a watch. So I'm the one with the blue! FWIW, I wear a blue ribbon pin everywhere I go. No man has ever asked me about it, more's the pity. A few women have, and I give them the PCa Lecture, short or long form as appropriate. And whenever I meet a woman who is wearing the BCa pink pin, I consider her a sister and speak to her accordingly. The pins and related paraphernalia are available at: http://www.pcaawareness.net/pins_ribbon.html Regards, Steve J > There's a thought in this newsgroup that "We need to build awareness." > and "talk about it." [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > -kh 30 years ago??? I love a story with a happy ending.....almost makes me miss my prostate..... Not really - I didn't want it any more...it was full of cancer, and I can live without that. > There's a thought in this newsgroup that "We need to build awareness." > and "talk about it." > > Why? For starters, because most men and their SOs don't know squat about it, many men don't go to doctors, many doctors don't check PSA, the vast majority of doctors don't start PSA checks early enough, and many people think it's not a risk until they are doddering old geezers. I.P. > For starters, because most men and their SOs don't know squat about it, > many men don't go to doctors, many doctors don't check PSA, the vast > majority of doctors don't start PSA checks early enough, and many people > think it's not a risk until they are doddering old geezers. I don't know a whole lot about coronary heart disease, strokes, Alzheimer's, ulcers, or most health considerations. Even stranger, folks who consider themselves "buffs" or "health-fans" know even less. I'm not talking about body builders abusing steriods, I mean, the mucus-food people, the colon-cleansers, macro-biotic-types, Choir-practers; there's even a "raw-meat-is-good" movement. All a guy needs to know is what I knew, go to a good primary care doc once a year. I don't know about the "early enough", my doc was running what he called the "full panel" which included PSAs when I was 40. 200 bucks a year, a couple tubes of blood, and 15 minutes of his time. No extra charge for the teaspoon of K-Y and the kleenix. A bargain. It's different if you're diagnosed. Then, yes, do your homework. Until then, I have lots to do. -kh >> For starters, because most men and their SOs don't know squat about it, >> many men don't go to doctors, many doctors don't check PSA, the vast [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I don't know a whole lot about coronary heart disease, strokes, > Alzheimer's, ulcers, or most health considerations. So how do you know what works -- and doesn't -- to help protect yourself from them, and how do you make informed choices about which lifestyle changes are worth the effort? > All a guy needs to know is what I knew, go to a good primary care doc > once a year. You're way ahead of most American men already, on two counts: "good primary care doc" and "once a year". The odds are that my PCP killed me by ignoring my rapidly increasing PSA for three years, the "stupid doctor tricks" others here relate are equally alarming, and many, maybe most, men don't get annual checkups anyway, especially the dreaded FUTA. I.P. Well, 40 years ago the reason people wore hard hats was because of the iron workers. (For those unaware of the construction industry back then, hard hats kept the pee from running down the back of your neck. Okay that's an inside joke.) Those iron workers were crazy, no safety harnesses, no nothing, no unions, but the pay was very good for those insane enough. They were some of the toughest men around, foul-mouthed, strong, well-muscled, Catholic boys (I think it required a great deal of faith to do what they did) with names like Malone and Giovanni. (OMG were they gorgeous specimens of testosterone!) To them safety harnesses were for sissies as were the safety nets that began to go up. Nope, they would never admit to a problem then or probably even now. Bev > Hi Bev, > > The following is a link to an Us Too effort to raise Pca awareness. http://www.prostatecancerrunwalknroll.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Sneakers_at_W ork_Involved&printer_friendly=1&JServSessionIdr011=h56qtfa903.app7a > I'm going to do my best to get participation within our Co. (we have > approx. 100 male employees in the "Mature Age Group", that should be [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > :-( > > Bev The description of hard-hat workers reminds me of some members of my own family a couple of generations back... emigrants, factory workers, stoic about their health, brimming with denial. In contrast, it also brings to mind the bumper sticker you've probably seen, at least on the web, "Real men know their PSA." The other day I filled out a quality of life questionnaire for a woman in the UK who was engaged in a pilot study in conjunction with the NHS of the emotional impact that prostate and breast cancers have on people, and the social sources from which related attitudes eminate (mass media, family, friends, etc.) One of the items on the male version of the form, which respondents were asked to rate on a five-point Likert scale, was "I am able to feel like a man." I had to think for a minute. This wasn't something that I ever remember asking myself. Since turning 18 or so, I guess I've just taken it for granted that I'm a man. I ended up replying in the affirmative, reasoning that PCa hasn't made me feel "not" like a man. But I can't easily define what being "a man" is. I can tell you what it isn't (i.e. a woman), or subsets of men (father, brother, son, etc.) But more than that it's hard to narrow down. Last night I came across an essay by Australian Mark Christensen, entitled "So what does it mean to be a man?" at http://snipurl.com/14zqx . Reading Christensen's article, my mind returned to the questionnaire item, which in the context of PCa seemed to suggest a possible feeling on the part of some that blood flow to the penis or control of urine are necessarily elements of being "a man." To accept this at a rational level suggests that what makes a man is the structure and neurological function of his erectile tissue, his hormones, or the tightness of the neck of his bladder. As Tom Cular observed earlier in this thread, "I believe that most men (not those who participate in this forum) would choose to sit tight and be silent and suffer, rather than openly discuss issues that they deem to be a private or personal issue. Can you imagine this scenario? Two Ironworkers, working 30 floors above the ground and one says to the other, 'Gee, I couldn't get it up last night,' or 'I don't know what happened, but I just wet my pants.' It's a macho / stupidity thing." Maybe machismo stems from old hunter/gatherer roles. I don't know. But I do know that it loses any survival value that it might have ever had for men or the species when it results in denial that leads to illness and death. The famous old poem "If" (one of my late father's favorites, read aloud in his own amateurish voice at http://snipurl.com/14zpp), doubtless known to most posters in this newsgroup) concludes: "If you can fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds' worth of distance run - yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, and - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!" Kipling's conclusion that being "a Man" (a mensch, I guess) involves running life's course and not wasting it, but seeking to extend and find meaning in it, seems right. But ironically, this definition is really a gender-neutral true "quality of life" measure suggesting a willingness to face fears, frustrations, failures and stumbles, regaining one's footing and continuing the run. So what does it mean to be a Man? Or a Woman for that matter? How do they differ, characterologically or otherwise, from simply being human? My apologies for running off at the fingertips. These questions have been on my mind lately and this thread brought it to the fore again. Does anybody have better answers? Tom -- http://vitruvian.tomrue.net http://tomrue.net > Well, 40 years ago the reason people wore hard hats was because of the iron > workers. (For those unaware of the construction industry back then, hard [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > then or probably even now. > Bev [snip] > > I believe that most men (not those who participate in this forum) would > > choose to sit tight and be silent and suffer, rather than openly discuss > > issues that they deem to be a private or personal issue. Can you imagine > > this scenario? Two Ironworkers, working 30 floors above the ground and one > > says to the other, "Gee, I couldn't get it up last night, or "I don't know > > what happened, but I just wet my pants". It's a macho / stupitity thing. [snip] [snip] > > > When are men going to face up to the fact that they chance having prostate > > > cancer and the more they know the better off they will be? I wanted to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > one was watching! Damn, it makes me mad. > > > :-( [snip] > I can't easily define what being "a man" is. To me, it's a person of any gender or persuasion who stands up for what's right and against what's wrong, especially under fire. The rest -- genitalia, hair length, shape, muscles, voice, clothes, bling, etc. -- is just details. (And the more hung up on the details, the less the man.) I.P. Good definition. I went to sleep last night thinking about this and awoke dreaming about it. I wove my post from last night together with a piece I wrote this morning into a blog entry. Kind of an odd combination, but they fit together: http://tomrue.net/?q=gender Tom > > I can't easily define what being "a man" is.To me, it's a person of any gender or persuasion who stands up for > what's right and against what's wrong, especially under fire. The rest > -- genitalia, hair length, shape, muscles, voice, clothes, bling, etc. > -- is just details. (And the more hung up on the details, the less the man.) > > I.P. You guys are funny! Mary, I wasn't offended by your remark or Steve's other comment. Then Heather jumps in. ROTFL Bev > Yesterday hubby had a check up and a PSA test done. I'm waiting for the > results now and will post them as soon as we know. (Yes, I'm crossing my [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > :-( > Bev |
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