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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / November 2006

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PSA result

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gabachin - 21 Nov 2006 20:06 GMT
I wrote to this group six months ago after a rise in PSA  from .5 to
1.8 in 20 months. I'm 47, and in good health. My stats were:

7/2002 .9     (method unknown)

10/2004 .5   (Hybritech Access)

5/27/2006 1.8    (Hybritech Access)

Since many of you were so kind to give me such helpful advice, I just
wanted to let you know that my latest PSA was

11/20/2006 1.600  (Abbott Asyxm)

I've reported the results to the decimal place given by the lab. I find
it interesting that Abbott's results should be good to three decimals,
while the other results are reported only to one. I've also read in

http://www.diagnosis.prostate-help.org/assays.htm

that in the range PSA < 7, Hybritech and Abbott give nearly identical
results. Any comments?

Six months ago, when I went to my GP, he basically told me I was being
neurotic about the PSA and said not to give it a second thought. I then
went to a Uro who told me the same thing. When I mentioned PSA velocity
he laughed in my face and said, "oh yeah, some people even make
charts." He then said that I might check it again in a year's time.
Thanks to this group, I've learned a great deal about the whole issue
of PSA testing and PCa in general, and I intend to keep checking my PSA
every six months to get a more meaningful pattern.

Thanks again for all your advice and kind attention.
Dick Smith - 21 Nov 2006 23:08 GMT
I then
> went to a Uro who told me the same thing. When I mentioned PSA velocity
> he laughed in my face and said, "oh yeah, some people even make
> charts."

I wonder why they laugh at PSAV when it's been proven that's it's a
better predictor of PCa than static PSA.
I.P. Freely - 21 Nov 2006 23:45 GMT
>  I then
>> went to a Uro who told me the same thing. When I mentioned PSA velocity
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I wonder why they laugh at PSAV when it's been proven that's it's a
> better predictor of PCa than static PSA.

For the same reasons so many of them don't inform pts of SEs, including
ignorance and/or a running meter.

I.P.
Alan Meyer - 22 Nov 2006 02:11 GMT
...
> 11/20/2006 1.600  (Abbott Asyxm)
>
> I've reported the results to the decimal place given by the lab. I find
> it interesting that Abbott's results should be good to three decimals,
> while the other results are reported only to one. ...

I don't know about the differences in tests, but from what I
know about PSA, the three decimals are of no real use.
It may be true that you had exactly 1.600 at the moment
of the blood draw, but the next day you might have had 1.523
and the previous day 1.614, and so on.  PSA varies from
day to day.  I'm far from an expert, but my guess is that
only about two decimal digits of precision (1.6 in this case)
are of value in diagnosis.

> Six months ago, when I went to my GP, he basically told me I was being
> neurotic about the PSA and said not to give it a second thought. I then
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Thanks again for all your advice and kind attention.

Your uro knows vastly more about this than I do.  His advice
to get yearly tests doesn't sound bad to me.  Your PSA
is not currently in any way alarming.  The docs are right
that it's possible to get neurotic about things.

On the other hand, getting tested more frequently doesn't
cost much and you did have a larger rise than one would
expect.

Do you have any special risk factors (smoking, obesity,
exposure to carcinogens, PCa in your family?)

If I were you, knowing what I know now, I might want a
test every 6 months.  And making a chart may not be such
a terrible idea because there's a good chance that your
doctor isn't doing it.  But I would also not want to obsess
about it.

    Alan
c palmer - 22 Nov 2006 03:27 GMT
From: ptoppo@gmail.com (gabachin)

I wrote to this group six months ago after a rise in PSA from .5 to 1.8
in 20 months. I'm 47, and in good health. My stats were:
7/2002 .9     (method unknown)
10/2004 .5   (Hybritech Access)
5/27/2006 1.8   (Hybritech Access)
Since many of you were so kind to give me such helpful advice, I just
wanted to let you know that my latest PSA was
11/20/2006 1.600 (Abbott Asyxm)
I've reported the results to the decimal place given by the lab. I find
it interesting that Abbott's results should be good to three decimals,
while the other results are reported only to one. I've also read in
http://www.diagnosis.prostate-help.org/assays.htm
that in the range PSA < 7, Hybritech and Abbott give nearly identical
results. Any comments?
Six months ago, when I went to my GP, he basically told me I was being
neurotic about the PSA and said not to give it a second thought. I then
went to a Uro who told me the same thing. When I mentioned PSA velocity
he laughed in my face and said, "oh yeah, some people even make charts."
He then said that I might check it again in a year's time. Thanks to
this group, I've learned a great deal about the whole issue of PSA
testing and PCa in general, and I intend to keep checking my PSA every
six months to get a more meaningful pattern.
Thanks again for all your advice and kind attention.

========
your psa rise could be as simple as a minor prostate infection.

if you are in doubt, get a free psa test.  that will help give you more
information about your present situation.

also, you can ask the uro to put you a two week treatment of levaquin or
the something similar.  then take the psa test over again and see what
the results are.

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Alan Meyer - 22 Nov 2006 04:11 GMT
> ...
> also, you can ask the uro to put you a two week treatment of levaquin or
> the something similar.  then take the psa test over again and see what
> the results are.
> ...

We always say this, but I still say (and will repeat from time to
time) that taking antibiotics as a "just in case" treatment is not
good medicine.  It's a little more trouble but a lot more accurate
and less invasive to get a urine culture instead to find out if
there actually is a bacterial infection.  If not, why contribute
to developing more antibiotic resistant bacteria in your body
and in society?

   Alan
c palmer - 22 Nov 2006 08:00 GMT
From: ameyer2@yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
We always say this, but I still say (and will repeat from time to time)
that taking antibiotics as a "just in case" treatment is not good
medicine. It's a little more trouble but a lot more accurate and less
invasive to get a urine culture instead to find out if there actually is
a bacterial infection. If not, why contribute to developing more
antibiotic resistant bacteria in your body and in society?
        Alan

======> you're right, that is usually the first two things that they
will do for testing purposes.  it never hurts to see if there is some
bad bugs in the urine.  you need all the information you can in order to
treat what the problem is.

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Steve Kramer - 23 Nov 2006 01:24 GMT
I don't think you can derive much benefit from tests done by alternating
assays.

>I wrote to this group six months ago after a rise in PSA  from .5 to
> 1.8 in 20 months. I'm 47, and in good health. My stats were:
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Thanks again for all your advice and kind attention.
gabachin - 23 Nov 2006 16:05 GMT
Steve Kramer ha escrito:

> I don't think you can derive much benefit from tests done by alternating
> assays.

I'm currently in Aguascalientes, Mexico and all the labs I researched
here use the Abbott Asxym Microparticle Enzyme Immunoassay. The two
methods seem to correlate very well, at least  for PSA<4. A 2005 study
by the State of New York gave the following results:

                         Specimen 1         Specimen 2  Specimen 3
Specimen 4  Specimen 5

Beckman Access  15.2                      8                      4
            2                 1
Abott Asxym         14.6                      7.8                   3.9
              2                 1
Steve Kramer - 25 Nov 2006 02:06 GMT
> Steve Kramer ha escrito:
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Abott Asxym         14.6                      7.8                   3.9
>               2                 1

Okay.  If you are satisfied with the compatibility of the assays, then you
need to concern yourself with a rise in PSA that may be the beginning of an
indication that you have a problem with your prostate.  Notice, I did not
say cancer.  PSA can rise from several ailments, the minority of which is
cancer.

However, the next time you have a PSA, if that one also is elevated past the
first, then you may wish to get a biopsy.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06, 6/06
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

gabachin - 28 Nov 2006 15:27 GMT
I would have preferred that the test used the same assay as those I got
in the States, but at least from what I've researched, there does seem
to be very good agreement between the two assays, in the range 1-4.

I am concerned about the PSA being too high, and will track it, every
three months. My trigger for biopsy is 2.3, what seems to be the lower
limit for my age (47) suggested by the most agressive uros, and also is
the PSA that will be reached if the PSAV gets > .75/year.

Incidently, I have no other risk factors for PCa.

Steve Kramer ha escrito:

> Okay.  If you are satisfied with the compatibility of the assays, then you
> need to concern yourself with a rise in PSA that may be the beginning of an
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> However, the next time you have a PSA, if that one also is elevated past the
> first, then you may wish to get a biopsy.
Steve Kramer - 28 Nov 2006 17:39 GMT
>I would have preferred that the test used the same assay as those I got
> in the States, but at least from what I've researched, there does seem
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Incidently, I have no other risk factors for PCa.

Sounds like you've thought this through.  Good luck.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06, 6/06
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

 
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