Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / November 2006
Another ADT Study
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Tom Cular - 11 Nov 2006 20:21 GMT Excess Mortality Seen Among Prostate Cancer Patients on Long Term Androgen Deprivation Therapy: Presented at ASTRO By Ed Susman
PHILADELPHIA, PA -- November 9, 2006 -- In a surprise finding, a retrospective study suggests long-term use of anti-male hormone drugs increase the risk of mortality among patients who were at high risk for recurrence of prostate cancer, doctors said here at the American Society of Therapeutic Radiology and Oncology (ASTRO) 48th annual meeting.
"More than 6 months' treatment with these androgen deprivation drugs appears to double the risk of mortality in these patients," said Cliff Robinson, MD, resident in oncology, The Cleveland Clinic, Cleveland, Ohio.
Dr. Robinson and colleagues reviewed the charts of 579 men treated for prostate cancer at the Cleveland Clinic between the years 1998 and 2003.
"Specifically, we were looking for ways to improve outcomes of high risk patients," said study co-author Chandama Reddy, MS, biostatistician, The Cleveland Clinic. "We weren't looking to find something wrong with anti-hormone treatment, but these numbers just jumped out."
Dr. Robinson said that the 5-year survival after definitive treatment for prostate cancer among the 153 high-risk individuals who had not received any post-procedure treatment was 92%.
Among the 351 patients who received anti-hormone treatment for 1 to 6 months, the survival rate was also 92%. But among the 74 patients who took the anti-hormone treatment for longer than 6 months, the survival was 76% (P = .0007). "That's a significant difference," Dr. Robinson said.
In addition, Jay Ciezki, MD, staff physician, The Cleveland Clinic, and another co-author of the study, said that with or without hormone therapy there did not appear to be any impact on prostate cancer recurrence.
The group's poster was presented November 8th.
Patients in the study had all undergone surgery to remove the prostate or radiation therapy to kill the cancer, either with external beam radiation sources or brachytherapy, the insertion of radioactive pellets into the prostate gland.
Before any treatment was performed, the men who were considered to be at high risk for prostate cancer recurrence had to have the following: a prostate specific antigen (PSA) level higher than 20 ng/mL; a cancer that was judged by pathologists to be highly aggressive; or cancer that had already extended through the wall of the prostate. They could also be judged at high risk if they had both a PSA score of 10 ng/mL and a moderately aggressive cancer.
The Cleveland Clinic researchers are now looking to determine the cause of death of the study patients to determine if the use or lack of use of the monthly injections of androgen deprivation drugs prevents prostate cancer deaths, Dr. Robinson said.
[Presentation title: Greater Than 6 Months of Androgen Deprivation Therapy Does Not Improve Overall Survival for High-risk Prostate Cancer Patients Treated with Radiotherapy or Prostatectomy. Abstract
Richbro - 11 Nov 2006 20:45 GMT Unless I'm missing the obvious, this study discusses the risk of recurrence - meaning it hasn't yet. I would think the large majority are on androgen deprivation after it has recurred. Maybe I'm not reading this right.
Rich
I.P. Freely - 12 Nov 2006 03:36 GMT > Unless I'm missing the obvious, this study discusses the risk of > recurrence - meaning it hasn't yet. I would think the large majority > are on androgen deprivation after it has recurred. I'm not sure about the "majority" part. Many oncs push ADT after RP or RT "just in case".
I.P.
Leonard Evens - 12 Nov 2006 16:04 GMT > Unless I'm missing the obvious, this study discusses the risk of > recurrence - meaning it hasn't yet. I would think the large majority > are on androgen deprivation after it has recurred. Maybe I'm not > reading this right. I think it was comparing mortality for patients who were at high risk for recurrence but for whom recurrence, as indicated by an increase in PSA, had not yet occurred.
It is not clear what this says about patients who have had signs of recurrence through PSA increase. Clearly, if they have clinical symptoms of cancer or seem very close to that because of relatively high PSA, then they are better off with hormone therapy. Whether it says anything about whether or not to begin HT at the first sign of recurrence through PSA increase is unclear. I presume more study is indicated.
> Rich Steve Jordan - 12 Nov 2006 00:28 GMT On Veterans Day, Tom Cular posted, in pertinent part:
> Excess Mortality Seen Among Prostate Cancer Patients on Long Term Androgen > Deprivation Therapy: Presented at ASTRO [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > resident in oncology, The Cleveland Clinic, Cleveland, Ohio. > If true, this is startling and discouraging news.
But is it accurate? It's certainly contrary to my experience.
My own experience leads me to wonder.
I'd very much appreciate it if Tom would post the actual link to this article so that others might read the original source, not the interpretation of some journalism-school graduate who may or may not be qualified to report on technical subjects.
Does the cock's crow cause the sunrise?? IOW, what is the causal relationship between ADT and increased PCa mortality?
As Sam Clemens (Mark Twain) is cited as saying, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
TIA
Regards,
Steve J
NICK - 12 Nov 2006 02:25 GMT > If true, this is startling and discouraging news. > But is it accurate? It's certainly contrary to my experience. > My own experience leads me to wonder.
> I'd very much appreciate it if Tom would post the actual link to this > article so that others might read the original source, not the > interpretation of some journalism-school graduate who may or may not be > qualified to report on technical subjects. Is he a doctor? Here are the results of a search on the name "Ed Susman."
Mountain biking threatens male fertility By Ed Susman UPI Science ... By Ed Susman UPI Science News From the Science & Technology Desk Published 12/2/2002 1:46 PM http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?Story ID=20021202-124357-7021r ... http://www.healingsearch.com/_ReportPages/mountain_biking_threatens_male...
AEGiS-UPI: AIDS: Is 'Paradise' next? Ed Susman covers medical research and health issues for UPI Science News. E-mail sciencemail@upi.com. 031210 UP031202 ... http://www.aegis.com/news/upi/2003/UP031202.html
Neurology Now - Fall 2005, Volume 1, Issue 3 LEEZA GIBBONS: Easing the Burden of Alzheimer's Disease. Ed Susman. HTML · PDF (3.15 M). 37. A Leeza's Place for Every County. Ed Susman ... http://www.neurologynow.com/pt/re/neuronow/toc.01222928-200501030-00000....
AEGiS-UPI: Complacency threatens Thai AIDS success Ed Susman covers medical issues for UPI Science News. E-mail sciencemail@upi.com 040708 UP040703. Copyright © 2004 - United Press International. ... http://www.aegis.org/news/upi/2004/UP040703.html
AEGiS-UPI: Report: AIDS catastrophe feared in Asia United Press International - July 6, 2004 Ed Susman, UPI Science News ... Ed Susman covers medical issues and research for UPI Science News. ... http://www.aegis.org/news/upi/2004/UP040704.html
AEGiS-UPI: AIDS: Catastrophe builds in Asia (Ed Susman, a medical writer for UPI, has been covering the AIDS epidemic for more than 20 years). 030915 UP030905. Copyright © 2003 - United Press ... http://ww2.aegis.com/news/upi/2003/UP030905.html
Walther Cancer Institute Ed Susman. May 21, Proapoptotic BAX and BAK: a requisite gateway to mitochondrial dysfunction and death. Wei MC, Zong WX, Cheng EH, Lindsten T, ... http://www.walther.org/wcf_blogs/BasicHotTopics.html
Abt Associates - In the News 2002 by Ed Susman, E-Hospital Journal, September 2002. This article cites a presentation ... by Ed Susman, The American Medical Directors Association, June 2002 ... http://www.abtassociates.com/Page.cfm?PageID=16709&FamilyID=16000
United Press International - The Washington Times, America's Newspaper (Ed Susman) · Malaria new opponent for Serena Williams · Analysis: New deivce prevents breast burns (Ed Susman) · Global Fund cuts HIV funds for Uganda ... http://secure.washtimes.com/upi/
Intermittent HIV Treatment Proves Disappointing Ed Susman. July 17, 2003 (Paris) Researchers found disappointing results in a trial that investigated ... Ed Susman is a freelance writer for Medscape. ... http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/458787
Alan Meyer - 12 Nov 2006 06:52 GMT ...
> Is he a doctor? Here are the results of a search on > the name "Ed Susman." My reading of the news article was that Susman was the author of the news article, not of the study. I presume he is not a doctor but was attempting (well or ill we don't know) to summarize a presentation by a doctor.
Alan
callalily - 12 Nov 2006 16:01 GMT > ... > > Is he a doctor? Here are the results of a search on [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Alan Alan the Scientist. You are right to bring up this issue. I am scrupulous to present only research that is completely backed up by credible evidence. I too worship the God of science but only to an extent. What about art, music poetry, let alone spirituality.
Best to you,
Leah
Alan Meyer - 13 Nov 2006 04:51 GMT > ... > Alan the Scientist. I regard that as a high compliment. Thank you.
> You are right to bring up this issue. I am > scrupulous to present only research that is completely backed up by > credible evidence. I too worship the God of science but only to an > extent. What about art, music poetry, let alone spirituality. I hope that science is not in conflict with art, music, or poetry, just as art is not in conflict with music and neither is in conflict with poetry.
"Spirituality" however seems to mean many different things. To the extent that it means "supernaturalism", then my intepretation is that science is in conflict with that. To the extent that it means a desire to seek and find the good, the true and the beautiful, to cultivate both deep and lofty feelings in ourselves, to elevate our relations to the world and to other people, I don't think science is in conflict with that. I'd even go so far as to say that a scientific worldview is helpful in achieving that kind of spirituality.
There have been many scientists whom we would probably classify as highly spiritual people. Some of them are religious believers. Some are not.
I think Einstein, for example, was a highly spiritual person. He even played the violin. See the Wikipedia article on Einstein under the subheading "Religious views". There are some wonderful quotes there.
> Best to you, And to you. I always enjoy your postings.
Alan
Leonard Evens - 12 Nov 2006 16:06 GMT > On Veterans Day, Tom Cular posted, in pertinent part: > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Does the cock's crow cause the sunrise?? IOW, what is the causal > relationship between ADT and increased PCa mortality? I thought it was total mortality, not necessarily PC specific mortality that was at issue.
> As Sam Clemens (Mark Twain) is cited as saying, there are lies, damned > lies, and statistics. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Steve J Alan Meyer - 12 Nov 2006 07:00 GMT This study certainly raises more questions than it answers.
To begin with, it directly contradicts the other study discussed here that said that patients with 2 years of post treatment ADT had higher long term survival rates.
Next, it doesn't say what the patients died of.
It also fails to state why these patients were on ADT longer than other patients. In the other study, the one that said ADT patients live longer, the patients were randomized to 4 months or 4 + 24 months of ADT. In this study, we don't know from the report how the assignment to ADT was made. Presumably the men given ADT had higher grade disease - higher Gleason, staging, PSA, etc. It could be that that accounts for a higher death rate.
Also, it is not uncommon to put older men on ADT, without treatment. That could easily account for a higher death rate. Maybe the ADT population died off because they were closer to the end of their natural lifespans.
I don't want to draw too many conclusions from a newspaper report. It could be that the presentation was clear and intelligent but the reporter didn't understand it.
However it wouldn't surprise me if the original presentation simply left out these issues. It seems to be the rule rather than the exception that researchers rush to publication with every finding they have, whether or not they have any idea what it means.
Alan
Tom Cular - 12 Nov 2006 18:20 GMT Folks,
Here is a link to ASTRO's press release page. they state that the abstract will be released on 11/05/06; I've been unable to find the abstract. http://www.astro.org/annual_meeting/media_corner/annual_meeting_press_releases/1 10506hormone.htm
The following is a link to a Medscape article on the same study.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/547320
Please don't shoot the messenger; I've got a "Google Alert" set for "prostate cancer awareness"; the article was flagged, and I thought some folks might have some interest.
Tom
> This study certainly raises more questions than it answers. > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Alan NICK - 13 Nov 2006 04:02 GMT > Folks,
> Please don't shoot the messenger; We wouldn't think of that.
The question was "who is he?" and it turns out he's a free-lance medical writer who pretty much does nothing but quote from medical journals of any genre.
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