Linda wrote:
>> At hubby's last check up (6 mos. after completion of salvage
>> radiation after RRP), the doc said his PSA was "zero", yet
>> the actual number was .02.
>> Just what does does undetectable or zero PSA mean? I would
>> think if any number at all shows up in the PSA test, that
>> that is bad news.
And Len responded:
> The test isn't perfect and there is some measurment error.
> So they can't really confirm a measurement of zero.
From my last PSA test: "PSA values from different assay
methods cannot be used interchangeable. This assay was
performed using the Bayer Chemiluminescent method."
Another test contained this memo: "If the patient is
Negroid, please multiply this result by 1.21. This
result has been calculated assuming the patient is
non-Negroid."
> In addition, there are other tissues in the body which
> produce very small amounts of PSA.
Someone posted a couple months ago that PSA is present
in women, from a hormone in the breast.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
Buttercup's Dad - 08 Nov 2006 16:07 GMT
I think it was in Walsh's book that I read that the adrenal gland
produces small amounts of PSA, and that is one reason that women will
have it.
> Someone posted a couple months ago that PSA is present
> in women, from a hormone in the breast.
>
> ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
ron - 08 Nov 2006 16:52 GMT
> I think it was in Walsh's book that I read that the adrenal gland
> produces small amounts of PSA, and that is one reason that women will
> have it.
You are right that the adrenal glandss produce small amounts of PSA,
but I don't think Walsh mentions that in his book. I think Walsh
mentioned the adrenal glands in regards to them producing small amounts
(5-10%) of androgenic compounds like testosterone, and that the LHRH
agonists do not suppress this source of androgens.
Some other organs in the body do produce very small amounts of PSA.
For example, PSA has been found to be present in epithelial cells of
the trachea, thyroid gland, mammary gland, salivary gland, pancreatic
exocrine glands, jejunum, ileum, epididymis, seminal vesicle and
urethra, as well as in Leydig cells and epidermis pituitary tissue and,
as mentioned above, adrenal tissue. It is found in many tumors (e.g.
lung, colon, ovary, liver, kidney, adrenal and paroria). As expected
from the above, PSA has also been found in women (breast and ovarian
tissue). PSA in women can occasionally exceed 0.1 ng/ml depending upon
BCa status, age, time in the menstrual cycle, etc...Best wishes and
good health, ron
Alan Meyer - 09 Nov 2006 20:27 GMT
> Linda wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> > The test isn't perfect and there is some measurment error.
> > So they can't really confirm a measurement of zero.
A reading of .02 often really means <.02, or <=.02.
There are several kinds of tests in use and they have different
degrees of precision. If the lab could not find any PSA, but the
minimum PSA that their test can detect is .02, the lab can't
report that PSA=0.0. All they know is that it is undetectable.
It could be anything up to .02.
Ideally, they should report <.02 in that case, and it's possible
that that is what they really reported but the doctor didn't
bother with the "less than" phrase.
Alan
Beverley - 20 Dec 2006 05:00 GMT
I'm still not sure why the lab returned 0.00 on my husband and not <0.01 but
that is what they did. I know that means that the could not detect any PSA
value on their equipment.
I also know that our brachy doc considers anything under 0.03 as
undetectable because said the difference under 0.03 is infinitesimal and the
test accuracy becomes blurred.
I'm beginning to think that it's not so much the number, but whether or not
the man can hold that number steady. Let's say a man has a 1.2 after
radiation, every time he's checked he's between 1.4 and 0.8 and he can hold
that number for fifteen years or more . Is he just as cured as someone who
is <0.01? I think so, but I think every man wants to see <0.01
Then there are other factors - let's say that the blood isn't processed for
24 hours or wasn't held a certain temperature while awaiting processing. We
have several guys here who have their blood drawn at the doc's office and it
is sent someplace a maybe a 100 miles away or maybe more. Or one person has
more natural PSA being produced in other parts of their body for some
reason. What do the docs know that we don't? So it's not just the equipment
but the time until the blood is processed and each individual's own body
chemistry. Oops, can't forget other factors such as sex or a little
constipation the night before the blood draw.
Bev
> > Linda wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Alan
Mary Fisher - 20 Dec 2006 11:21 GMT
> I'm still not sure why the lab returned 0.00 on my husband and not <0.01
> but
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> constipation the night before the blood draw.
> Bev
All that shows that it's not worth worrying about :-)
Mary