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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / September 2006

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EBRT in the Treatment of Localized PCa

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Elliott Reinhardt - 15 Sep 2006 02:07 GMT
The Role of External-Beam Radiation Therapy in the Treatment of Clinical
Localized Prostate Cancer

Javier F. Torres-Roca, MD

Cancer Control.  2006;13(3):188-193.  ©2006 H. Lee Moffitt Cancer Center and
Research Institute, Inc.
Posted 08/29/2006

Abstract and Introduction

Abstract

Background: The treatment of clinically localized prostate cancer is
controversial. Options include radical prostatectomy, external-beam
radiation therapy (EBRT), brachytherapy, cryotherapy, and watchful waiting.

Methods: The author reviews EBRT as treatment for clinically localized
prostate cancer, with particular emphasis on the technological advances
that have allowed dose escalation and fewer therapy-related side effects.

Results: Technological advances in the last two decades have significantly
improved the delivery of EBRT to the prostate. This has resulted in an
overall increase in the total dose that can be safely delivered to the
prostate, which has led to modest improvements in biochemical outcome. An
alternative approach of combining androgen suppression therapy and EBRT has
also been successful in improving clinical outcomes. However, establishing
the optimal therapy for prostate cancer remains controversial.

Conclusions: Recent progress has led to improvements in clinical outcomes in
patients treated with EBRT for prostate cancer. It is hoped that the next
decades will bring continued advances in the development of biologicals
that will further improve current clinical outcomes.

Introduction

In 2006, approximately 234,460 American men will be diagnosed with prostate
cancer.[1] One of the first challenges they will face is the decision of
how to treat their disease. A number of options are available to the vast
majority of men with newly diagnosed prostate cancer, including surgery,
external-beam radiation therapy (EBRT), brachytherapy (BT), cryotherapy,
androgen suppression therapy (AST), expectant management, or some
combination of these treatments. This review focuses on the role of EBRT in
patients with clinically localized prostate cancer.

Technological Advancements in Radiation Dose Delivery: From Two-Dimensional
Radiotherapy to Image-Guided Radiotherapy

In the last two decades, technological improvements in the delivery of EBRT
have improved the ability of radiation oncologists to target radiation to
the prostate while more efficiently sparing the surrounding normal tissue
[2] These improvements were initially achieved by integrating
three-dimensional (3D) anatomical information into the radiation therapy
planning process. Treatment planning utilizing 3D conformal radiotherapy
(CRT) permitted the 3D visualization of both the target and the normal
tissue, allowing for the planning of treatment techniques that conform the
dose to the target while sparing the normal tissue. The next step came with
the development of intensity-modulated radiation therapy (IMRT).[3] With
IMRT, further sparing of normal tissue is achieved by modulating the
intensity of the beam across the different fields of radiation being
delivered. Prior to IMRT, radiation oncologists chose and designed the
treatment fields to be utilized in the treatment process.[3] This resulted
in a uniformity of the technique used for patients with a particular
disease. For example, patients with prostate cancer were classically
treated with a four-field technique combining four radiation ports that
were delivered from the front, the back, and both sides of the patient. The
development of CRT provided more options in terms of the field arrangements
that would achieve the desired goals. Using CRT, both the target and normal
tissue are contoured, which allows physicians to better customize treatment
fields. However, in IMRT, the concept of inverse-treatment planning was
introduced whereby the physician no longer chooses and designs the
treatment fields. The responsibility of the radiation oncologist lies in
contouring both the radiation therapy target volumes and the normal tissue
that needs to be spared. The radiation oncologist also establishes a set of
dose constraints for each target and normal tissue volume. A computer
algorithm calculates the most effective way to physically deliver the
radiation and achieve the desired goals.[3]

As the ability to conform radiation dose to the prostate improved, many
studies reported the clinical significance of prostate motion in the
setting of 3D CRT.[4] Movement occurs primarily in the anterior-posterior
direction, although it also occurs in the superior-inferior and lateral
directions.[5-7] To address these concerns, a number of daily prostate
localization techniques have been developed. A common technique utilizes a
transabdominal ultrasound to daily localize the prostate during the
delivery of a fractionated course of radiotherapy.[8-10] Other approaches
involve imaging implanted radio-opaque fiducial markers[11,12] and using
daily computed tomography (CT).[13-15] The ability to image the position of
the prostate on a daily basis has allowed the development of image-guided
radiotherapy (IGRT), where imaging has helped to reduce set-up errors
caused by organ motion and thus has improved the overall accuracy of
treatment. The current development and integration of megavoltage cone beam
CT technology into the design of linear accelerators will play a major role
in IGRT.[14-17]

Clinical Benefits of Dose Escalation

Investigators at the M.D.Anderson Cancer Center were among the first to
recognize the potential clinical benefits of increasing the radiation dose
to the prostate. A principal rationale for increasing doses to the prostate
stemmed from postradiation biopsy studies that showed a high incidence of
positive prostate biopsies in patients treated with standard doses (70 Gy
or less) of radiation therapy.[18-24] Pollack et al[25,26] published the
first prospective, randomized trial that supported a role for dose
escalation in patients with clinically localized cancer ( Table 1 ). They
randomized 305 patients to receive either standard dose (70 Gy/35 fx) or
high-dose (78 Gy/39 fx) EBRT. At a median follow-up of 60 months, there was
an absolute benefit of 6% in improvement of 5-year biochemical failure-free
survival. Further evidence supporting the benefits of dose escalation was
provided by a randomized phase III collaborative study[27] between
Massachusetts General Hospital and Loma Linda University. In this study,
protons were used to deliver a portion of the treatment in all patients.
Patients randomized to the standard dose arm received a standard-dose
equivalent to 70.2 Gy, while patients randomized to the experimental arm
received a dose equivalent to 79.2 Gy. At 5.5 years of median follow-up,
the patients who received 79.2 Gy had a superior biochemical failure-free
survival rate (80.4%) compared with patients treated in the standard arm
(61.4%, P < .001). A study by Sathya et al[28] has also shown a modest
improvement in biochemical failure rates by dose escalation. In their
approach, dose escalation was achieved by using a temporary interstitial
iridium implant. In summary, all three studies showed a modest improvement
in biochemical outcomes in clinically localized prostate cancer. However,
none has shown an improvement in overall or disease-specific survival.
Dose Escalation: Is Brachytherapy Superior?

It could be argued that conceptually, brachytherapy (BT) provides the most
"conformal" of all radiation delivery techniques.[29,30] The placement of
radioactive sources either permanently (iodine-125 or palladium- 103 or
temporarily (iridium-192) in the prostate allows the maximal sparing of the
surrounding normal tissue while concentrating the dose on the target. As
with EBRT, modern techniques of BT have been refined in the last 15 years
with the introduction of transrectal ultrasound and template guidance as
well as 3D volumetric treatment planning.[29,31] Although no prospective,
randomized study comparing BT to EBRT has been reported, most retrospective
series suggest similar prostate cancer outcomes for both therapeutic
approaches.[32-35] Others have argued that BT in combination with
supplemental pelvic radiotherapy may be the most effective approach when
using BT. Several retrospective and mature series have been published
showing excellent results for the combination approach.[36-38]

The belief that EBRT and BT have similar clinical outcomes has recently been
questioned. Pickett et al[39] studied the effect of both EBRT and BT on
normal prostate metabolism using magnetic resonance spectroscopy.
Interestingly, these authors reported that patients treated with BT had a
higher rate of complete metabolic atrophy than those treated with EBRT (60%
vs 40%, respectively), suggesting that BT is biologically more efficient in
abolishing normal prostate metabolism. Although their endpoint was not
prostate cancer control, these intriguing observations strongly suggest
that the biological effect of both techniques is different. Whether this
improved efficiency in abolishing metabolism will translate into better
cancer control is currently being studied. However, it is important to note
that in this study patients did not undergo daily prostate localization
during the delivery of EBRT. Therefore, it could be argued that some of
these patients could have been underdosed during EBRT as a consequence of
the natural movement of the prostate. This is not an issue with BT because
these patients underwent postimplant dosimetry to confirm coverage; it
could be argued that low-dose regions in the EBRT patients could account
for the difference in the complete metabolic atrophy rate.

AST in Low- and Intermediate-Risk Clinically Localized Prostate Cancer

For more than 60 years,AST has played a central role in the clinical
management of prostate cancer. Although the role of AST in metastatic
disease, as well as in high-risk patients with clinically localized
disease, is well established,[40-46] its role in patients with intermediate
and low-risk prostate cancer is more controversial. Table 2 presents the
definitions of risk groups. Four prospective, randomized trials, all using
standard doses of 70 Gy or less, have demonstrated that patients with
high-risk clinically localized prostate cancer derive a clear clinical
benefit from the use of long-term AST (at least 2 years) in conjunction
with EBRT ( Table 3 ).[41,42,44-46] Several investigators have studied
whether intermediate- risk prostate cancer patients also derive a benefit
from the combination of AST and EBRT.[47-49] A recent phase III
prospective, randomized study by D'Amico et al[47] showed an improvement in
5-year survival rate in patients treated with complete AST for 6 months
plus standard EBRT (70 Gy) when compared to patients treated with standard
EBRT alone (88% vs 78%, respectively, P = .04). Eligible patients included
patients with a prostate-specific antigen (PSA) of at least 10 ng/mL or a
Gleason score of at least 7. Although the study was designed before the
development of the risk stratification criteria, all of these patients
would have been grouped in either the intermediate- or high-risk stratum.
The only other trial examining EBRT alone vs EBRT plus AST showed an
improvement in biochemical control ( Table 4 ).[48] The other trials in
this risk stratum addressed the length of AST as well as the sequence of
AST and EBRT.[48,50,51] Although the clinical benefit of AST in high-risk
prostate cancer has been previously established, these trials suggest that
AST in conjunction with EBRT may result in therapeutic benefit in
intermediate- risk patients as well.

AST Plus EBRT or Dose Escalation in Intermediate- and Low-Risk Prostate
Cancer

Determining the best therapeutic approach for patients with low-risk and
intermediate-risk prostate cancer remains a subject of great debate among
radiation oncologists. It is likely that no single approach is best for all
patients. The use of AST is associated with an increase in treatment
morbidity, particularly sexual side effects.[40] Therefore, it is important
that AST is used when treatment is more likely to influence cancer
outcomes. Since there is no randomized trial in intermediate- or low-risk
patients that has addressed whether dose escalation is equivalent or
superior to short-term AST plus standard EBRT, this area will continue to
be controversial. However, an analysis of the features of the
dose-escalating trials as well as the D'Amico trial shows that there are
some differences in both eligibility criteria and clinical outcome. In the
trial by D'Amico et al,[47] 59% of patients showed a Gleason score of 7
compared to 33% and 15% in the trials by Pollack et al[25,26] and Zietman
et al,[27] respectively. Furthermore, the D'Amico trial included patients
with a PSA level of up to 40 ng/mL. Therefore, the populations of these
trials represent different overall risk groups in prostate cancer, with the
Zietman and Pollack trials including patients who would have been
classified mainly in the low-risk and intermediate-risk strata and the
D'Amico trial with patients mainly in the intermediate- or high-risk
strata. Furthermore, all dose escalation trials showed modest improvements
in the biochemical control of the disease but no difference in
disease-specific or overall survival. In contrast, the D'Amico trial showed
an improvement in 5-year overall survival with the addition of 6 months of
complete AST. This suggests that the effect of dose escalation and AST may
be different. It could be speculated that dose escalation appears to be
critical in patients with low risk for micrometastatic disease at the time
of treatment. Since most of these patients would not die of prostate cancer
in the first decade after diagnosis, one would not expect any therapeutic
intervention to affect either disease-specific or overall survival. In
contrast, in the D'Amico trial,AST was shown to affect overall survival at
5 years, suggesting that at least part of its effect is in altering the
natural history of micrometastatic disease. Therefore, it could be argued
that since a significant proportion of patients with intermediate-risk
disease are also at risk of micrometastatic disease as well, short-term AST
in conjunction with EBRT should be considered as an important option in
their clinical management.

Conclusions and Future Directions

The previous two decades have brought great technological innovations in the
field of radiation oncology. The development of more precise radiation
planning and delivery methods has improved our ability of targeting
radiation dose to the prostate,which has resulted in significant clinical
benefit. Technological innovations will continue in the near future with
the development of four-dimensional treatment planning systems that will
allow further refinements in radiation delivery and planning techniques.
However, some of the biggest strides in prostate cancer therapeutics will
probably come from biological innovations that will allow more precise
definitions of clinical risk groups through the use of genomics and
proteomics technology. Furthermore, it is hoped that a better understanding
of prostate cancer biology will lead to the development of better imaging
modalities and to the development of biological modifiers of radiation
response.

LINK --> www.medscape.com/viewarticle/542997_print
ronju99 - 17 Sep 2006 03:30 GMT
RIGHT: My cousin died two years ago after he decided on EBRT. He recieved
the treatment ten years earliar at Methodist Hospital in Indianapolis
after being offered surgery or EBRT. I believe he chose wrong.

Ron S.
Leonard Evens - 17 Sep 2006 14:55 GMT
> RIGHT: My cousin died two years ago after he decided on EBRT. He recieved
> the treatment ten years earliar at Methodist Hospital in Indianapolis
> after being offered surgery or EBRT. I believe he chose wrong.

A single case doesn't prove anything.  But let's consider the
possibilities.

If his cancer recurred, there is a strong chance it had escaped the
prostate and moved to distant sites before the treatment began.   Remote
cancers can be kept under control by the patient's immune system for
extended periods of time.  How else can you explain the fact that even
in the best of circumstances, where post surgical pathology indicates
that the cancer was enitrely confined to the gland, a few men still
suffer recurrence after 10 or more years?  If the initial diagnosis is
less promising, this is even more likely, even if post-surgical
pathology shows no spread to seminal vesicles or lymph nodes.

The other possibiity is that the cancer was in fact confined to the
gland, but the radiation did not manage to destroy it all.  In that
case, it could have subsequently spread.   In 1994, which is when you
say he was first treated, radiation oncologists were just begninning to
use modern techniques.  So it is possible, he didn't get  a sufficiently
high dose to kill the cancer.  In that case, what you say is correct.
But radiation today, particularly 3D conformal radiation with IMRT, does
a much better job of delivering an adequate dose.  I'm not sure when
such methods came into common use, but they were certainly used in the
last part of the 90s.   While such patients haven't been followed as
long as surgery pateints have been, they have now been followed
sufficiently long for it to be clear that the modern methods are very
effective.  Whether or not they are as effective as surgery when cancer
is likely to be confined to the gland is not entirely clear, but
apparently the research doesn't show there is a major difference.

Personally, if I expected to live 20 years or more,  I would choose
surgery for a variety of reasons, but in some cases it can be a close
call.   As men age, for example, it is harder for a surgeon to preserve
potency.  For younger men, the differences in avoiding impotence between
surgery and radiation, when both are done by experts, is not that great,
but for men in their late 60s or older, radiation appears to have the edge.

> Ron S.
ron - 17 Sep 2006 20:00 GMT
> How else can you explain the fact that even
> in the best of circumstances, where post surgical pathology indicates
> that the cancer was enitrely confined to the gland, a few men still
> suffer recurrence after 10 or more years?

One possibility would be a new, local occurrence, brought about 10-20
years later by the same factors that produced the first tumor(s), on
any remaining prostatic tissue...Best wishes and good health, ron
Alan Meyer - 18 Sep 2006 01:40 GMT
>> How else can you explain the fact that even
>> in the best of circumstances, where post surgical pathology indicates
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> years later by the same factors that produced the first tumor(s), on
> any remaining prostatic tissue...Best wishes and good health, ron

I asked my radiation oncologist about this possibility before I had
radiation.  I asked if it were possible for the same process that
brought about the cancer in the first place to do it again, years
after radiation.

She answered, "No", but she didn't explain why and, at that time
I didn't know enough cell biology (something I've learned a lot more
about since then) to have gotten much from the answer anyway.

I would speculate that prostate tissue, like many other tissues
in the body, contains a mix of stem cells that reproduce and
differentiated cells that don't.  I would further speculate that only
the stem cells are likely to originate a cancer and, perhaps,
those are all killed by the radiation.

But that's pure speculation on my part.  I have no idea if any
part of it is true.  I'd be curious, for both academic and obvious
personal reasons, to know the facts.

   Alan
Leonard Evens - 18 Sep 2006 15:21 GMT
>>>How else can you explain the fact that even
>>>in the best of circumstances, where post surgical pathology indicates
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> I didn't know enough cell biology (something I've learned a lot more
> about since then) to have gotten much from the answer anyway.

She may have meant was that it is very unlikely or that there is no
evidence that it actually happens.   As a theoretical possibility, it
could obviously happen.  If some prostate tissue remains, a new cancer
could develop in that tissue.

> I would speculate that prostate tissue, like many other tissues
> in the body, contains a mix of stem cells that reproduce and
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>     Alan
Leonard Evens - 18 Sep 2006 15:18 GMT
>>How else can you explain the fact that even
>>in the best of circumstances, where post surgical pathology indicates
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> years later by the same factors that produced the first tumor(s), on
> any remaining prostatic tissue...Best wishes and good health, ron

That certainly is a possibility in case radiation is the primary
therapy.  But you can't do post surgical pathology without first having
done surgery.   That was the situation I was referring to.
ron - 18 Sep 2006 23:28 GMT
> >>How else can you explain the fact that even
> >>in the best of circumstances, where post surgical pathology indicates
> >>that the cancer was enitrely confined to the gland, a few men still
> >>suffer recurrence after 10 or more years?

Ron replied
> > One possibility would be a new, local occurrence, brought about 10-20
> > years later by the same factors that produced the first tumor(s), on
> > any remaining prostatic tissue...Best wishes and good health, ron

Leonard responded
> That certainly is a possibility in case radiation is the primary
> therapy.  But you can't do post surgical pathology without first having
> done surgery.   That was the situation I was referring to.

Actually my response was to both surgery and RT.  There are studies
showing that 5-10% of post-RP men have a very slowly increasing PSA due
to non-excised, remaining prostatic tissue.  It seems to me that, no
matter how wide the surgeon cuts or how broad the RT target area is,
men will always have some prostatic tissue / cells remaining post-RP or
-RT...Best wishes and good health, ron
JohnHace - 19 Sep 2006 00:59 GMT
> Actually my response was to both surgery and RT.  There are studies
> showing that 5-10% of post-RP men have a very slowly increasing PSA due
> to non-excised, remaining prostatic tissue.  It seems to me that, no
> matter how wide the surgeon cuts or how broad the RT target area is,
> men will always have some prostatic tissue / cells remaining post-RP or
> -RT...Best wishes and good health, ron

It seems like I read that the prostate is one of only a few organs (I
think the liver is another) that can regenerate if only a portion is
removed. Perhaps if a few cells remain, they can regenerate more
prostate cells.

John
ronju99 - 21 Sep 2006 13:09 GMT
John,
Your right about the prostate regenerating itself. Often prostate tissue
is left from from where the nerves were spared. A surgeon will not spare
the nerves if he feels cancer may compromise the location. I have tissue
remaining but that is why I only had one set of nerves spared. The cancer
was to close to the other lobe and couldn't safely been spared. That is
also why PSA's <0.1 are not meaningful even on ultra-sensitive test. A
number of individuals have paniced when they saw an insignificant rise and
wanted to start some other form of treatment usually radiation. Also, there
are other processes that produce what they call psa besides the prostate,
granted the amounts are low however they still exist.

Ron S.
fred - 21 Sep 2006 14:24 GMT
Ron....When my PSA began to increase using the ultrasensitive tests 2
years after surgery, my PCP and the 2 independent urologists (including
the original surgeon) and the rad I consulted sure felt rises below 0.1
were significant. All of them wanted to see 3 consecutive rises with
the last being over 0.1 before they recommended SRT, so I guess we end
up in the same place, but I'm not sure it's correct to say that rises
below 0.1 are insignificant.

I get my first post SRT PSA next week so we'll see if any good done!

Fred

4/99        PSA    1.58
10/01      PSA    1.68
9/02    PSA     2.7
10/03    PSA     3.8
11/03        needle biopsy. Positive for Gleasons 6 on left side.
12/03         Radical Prostatectomy performed at the Cleveland Clinic.
Gleasons 3+4   =               7, clear surgical margins, extracapsular
extension established.
3/17/04      PSA    0.003
4/27/04    PSA    0.003
7/22/04    PSA    <0.1 (not 3rd generation test)
11/10/04    PSA    <0.1 (not 3rd generation test)
5/10/05    PSA    <0.1 (not 3rd generation test)
10/19/05    PSA    0.050
2/3/06    PSA    0.082
3/23/06    PSA    0.110
3/06-6/06   IMRT SRT
ronju99 - 21 Sep 2006 21:09 GMT
Hi Fred,
A lot of the information that I use comes from articles from places like
John Hopkins and Mayo Clinic, Pub Med and University studies. If you read
this article from John Hopkins you can see why I feel the way I do. The
limit for recurrence is 0.2 or above. I don't put much credence to Rad
Oncologist and there short term studies to market their treatment as a
cure. I also don't see how radiation can help you two years out. I would
really like for you to keep me informed of you progress. You can email me
if you want. Maybe I'm wrong but I have to see the proof before I change
my way of thinking. Here is the link;
http://urology.jhu.edu/newsletter/newsletter.php?var=52.php&id=5. Also I
don't aggree with there statement that the prostate is the only source of
psa and that all the prostate is removed during surgery. Maybe it is at
John Hopkins but not in all facilities.

Ron S. jlspane@nospam.verizon.net
fred - 22 Sep 2006 01:51 GMT
Ron....I did not do a lot of independent research, preferring to seek
advice from people at Cleveland Clinic, MD Anderson and John Hopkins
whom I assumed would be better data and clinical evaluators than me. I
was also fortunate to have a close friend who is head of pathology at
one of our local hospitals and is very familiar with the supersensitive
PSA tests.

But I was given and read (and re-read) the article you sent me, and I
asked my drs at length about it.

Their responses were:

1. They all felt that my PSA rise was probably not due to benign
prostate tissue, given the steadiness and persistence of the rise. They
all agreed that the 0.2 standard was useful as a statistical benchmark
for research, but that a steady rise below 0.2 in PSA using
supersensitive tests was and is a reliable indication of recurrence.

2. Given my low PSA post surgery, they felt that there were probably no
metastases and that the recurrence was probably local, although there
is no way to tell for sure. Bone and CT scans were negative.
Prostascint (?) scans were felt to be unreliable and were not done.

3. Because of the extraprostatic extension found by pathology after
surgery, and the upgrade to a Gleason 7 after surgery, there was
discussion immediately after surgery of doing radiation, but in view of
low post-surgery PSA, the feeling was to go the WW route.

4. If the recurrence is indeed local, radiation will likely resolve
it.( I am puzzled by your statement that you don't see how radiation
can help me two years past surgery. The article itself, and other
sources I have read and all of the advice I received, indicates that
SRT is the normal follow up treatment of recurrent prostate cancer if
there is no evidence of metastasis) The doctors' best guess percentages
of after rad non-recurrence for me ranged from 85% (the rad, of
course!) to 50% (the surgeon!), but I was given similar high
percentages after surgery, so I have learned to take these numbers with
a grain of salt.

5. The biggest downside in going for radiation at a relatively low PSA
recurrence level was that we would never know my PSA doubling time
after hitting the 0.2 level (and thus could not be classified using
Partin's table). But, realistically, all of the docs I talked to said
my choices were "radiate now or radiate later".

Will radiation help me? Did I make the right call? Who knows! Time will
tell what the outcome will be, but even then we'll never know if the
outcome would have been different had I had made a different choice. In
trying to deal with prostate cancer, seems to me that we have to make
choices in a fog of uncertainty and inadequate/incomplete data. But I
thought that going the radiation route was logical at the time, and
certainly I would not have gone that route if I felt it had no chance
of helping me.

I'll be happy to keep you informed of my progress. Is your posted email
address valid? If not, would you send it to me?

Fred

4/99            PSA    1.58
10/01          PSA    1.68
9/02            PSA     2.7
10/03          PSA     3.8
11/03        needle biopsy. Positive for Gleasons 6 on left side.
12/03         Radical Prostatectomy performed at the Cleveland Clinic.
Gleasons 3+4   = 7, clear surgical margins, extracapsular
extension established.
3/17/04        PSA     0.003
4/27/04        PSA     0.003
7/22/04        PSA     <0.1 (not 3rd generation test)
11/10/04        PSA     <0.1 (not 3rd generation test)
5/10/05        PSA     <0.1 (not 3rd generation test)
10/19/05        PSA     0.050
2/3/06 PSA     0.082
3/23/06 PSA     0.110
3/06-6/06   IMRT SRT
Alan Meyer - 22 Sep 2006 04:05 GMT
> Ron....I did not do a lot of independent research, preferring to seek
> advice from people at Cleveland Clinic, MD Anderson and John Hopkins
> whom I assumed would be better data and clinical evaluators than me. I
> was also fortunate to have a close friend who is head of pathology at
> one of our local hospitals and is very familiar with the supersensitive
> PSA tests.

Fred,

You are very lucky to have access to such expertise!

...
> Will radiation help me? Did I make the right call? Who knows! Time will
> tell what the outcome will be, but even then we'll never know if the
> outcome would have been different had I had made a different choice.
...

As you say, you'll never know whether the other choice would have
come out the same.  However the choice you made seems to
me to be the right one if you want to increase your chances for
a cure at the risk of additional treatment side effects.

I don't remember the numbers, but I recall that salvage radiation
is most effective when the PSA is low.  The number < 1.0 sticks
in  my head, but I don't know if that's right.  Opting for radiation
now, rather than waiting, probably does improve your chances
and, from everything I've read, your doctors are right that you
have a recurrence.  It may or may not become life threatening
in the years remaining to you, but I'm betting they are right in
saying that it really is a recurrence.

   Alan
fred - 22 Sep 2006 13:41 GMT
> You are very lucky to have access to such expertise!

Actually, I just called the institutions and made appointments and was
able to get appointments within a week or two. Surprised the hell out
of me! One key is to keep a copy of your medical file with you so they
don't have to try to run everything down. Insurance paid all bills
except small deductibles, and my med insurance is OK but nothing
exceptional. So I think most of us have this access if we want it.

Some travel obviously but I am on the road a lot anyway, and have
family around Cleveland and Baltimore.

>  However the choice you made seems to
> me to be the right one if you want to increase your chances for
> a cure at the risk of additional treatment side effects.
>
>  It may or may not become life threatening
> in the years remaining to you, >

That was exactly my thought. I was 54 at time of diagnosis, 57 now and
otherwise in good health so it will get me if I do nothing (given
otherwise normal life expectancy).

I was told the upper cut-off point for SRT is between 0.6 and 1.0,
depending on who's giving the advice. Intuitively, you would think that
the lower the PSA, the better the chance of a successful result, but
apparently that's not proven.

Fred

4/99            PSA    1.58
10/01          PSA    1.68
9/02            PSA     2.7
10/03          PSA     3.8
11/03        needle biopsy. Positive for Gleasons 6 on left side. Age
at dx 54.
12/03         Radical Prostatectomy performed at the Cleveland Clinic.
               Gleasons 3+4   = 7, clear surgical margins,
extracapsular
                extension established.
3/17/04        PSA     0.003
4/27/04        PSA     0.003
7/22/04        PSA     <0.1 (not 3rd generation test)
11/10/04        PSA     <0.1 (not 3rd generation test)
5/10/05        PSA     <0.1 (not 3rd generation test)
10/19/05        PSA     0.050
2/3/06          PSA     0.082
3/23/06         PSA     0.110
3/06-6/06      IMRT SRT
I.P. Freely - 23 Sep 2006 01:22 GMT
> Actually, I just called the institutions and made appointments and was
> able to get appointments within a week or two. Surprised the hell out
> of me! One key is to keep a copy of your medical file with you so they
> don't have to try to run everything down.

The first sentence out of my mouth when calling a new institution or
physician included the words "Gleason 8 verified by Bostwick". That
opened every door immediately. And the first thing each new doc saw in
my hand was a one-page summary of my case with records underneath. The
process was almost like ice skating.

I.P.
ronju99 - 22 Sep 2006 15:09 GMT
Fred,
The email is correct. I aggree with your statment that no one really knows
the best course of action to take because of the lack of any crediable
studies on the subject. Most are either extremely small samples or samples
from to wide of timeframe covering a span of technologies with varing
ranges of followup for the population in the sample and then trying to
project a long term benefit based upon short term results.

I personally don't know what is the best choice of action for any one
person. Everybodies situation is different. I just don't think that people
really appreciate the long term effects of continually adding radiation to
your body. Maybe is starts from my indoctrination on radiation effects
from my days in the Navy. But if the sun can give you skin cancer and we
receive radiation doses everyday from our environment, why keep piling it
on. I notice that many get CT-scans for apparently early localized cancer
to determine if the have mets. I haven't seen anyone say they in fact did
have mets after the test. Ct-scan gives you 700+ times the radiation than
from a chest X-ray. Why do they cover you with a lead blanket when you get
a tooth X-ray?
Yes for someone over 70, the x-ray may not bother him in his life time but
for younger people it can result in cancers before his naturaly time to
die.
It just seems that radiology promotes x-rays as simple effertless test
with no harm for a variety of test. I see they are trying to get approval
to us a CT-scan to do colonoscopys thereby avoiding the discomfort of
having a probe stuck up your rear. Of course if they find something, which
they often do, they will still have to stick it up your rear to remove any
polyps.

Ron S.
I.P. Freely - 23 Sep 2006 01:17 GMT
> Ron....I did not do a lot of independent research, preferring to seek
> advice from people at Cleveland Clinic, MD Anderson and John Hopkins

> 1. They all agreed that a steady rise below 0.2 in PSA using
> supersensitive tests was and is a reliable indication of recurrence.

Academically, my arguably comparable sources (e.g., S-K, U of WA onc
dept, Seattle area onc community, VA) disagree. Anecdotally, my
supersensitive PSA plotted a virtually straight climbing line for a year
before dropping way back down for no known reason most recently. I think
the jury is still out on that issue . . . but will still pursue
quarterly supersensitive PSAs for long time. (But I wouldn't recommend
that to a man with "PSA anxiety".)

I.P.
 
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