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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / September 2006biopsy anxiety
I'm somewhat hesitant to post this here since I know that the prostate biopsy that I have scheduled for Monday is unavoidable and a necessary diagnostic procedure. However, I've got some trepidations resulting, in part, from the experience described by my uncle who subsequently underwent a radical prostatectomy. Even more so than any of the later procedures that he went through, he told me that be biopsy was "the most painful experience of [his] life," and that he nearly passed out from pain in the car afterward. When I told my female GP about my anxiety, as well as my uncle's comment, she laughed and inoffensively said something that suggested that a biopsy like this was nothing compared to the pains of childbirth that women experience every day, and I should get over it. Can anyone here describe for me the degree of pain experienced during and after the biopsy procedure? Thanks. If I ever had to do it again, I would only agree with a general. However, I understand that I am the exception. Most in this group suffered very little. GD > I'm somewhat hesitant to post this here since I know that the prostate > biopsy that I have scheduled for Monday is unavoidable and a necessary [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Thanks. > I'm somewhat hesitant to post this here since I know that the prostate > biopsy that I have scheduled for Monday is unavoidable and a necessary > diagnostic procedure. > Monday? Sheesh. Not much time to act. But it is not "unavoidable." The *patient* is in charge. > However, I've got some trepidations resulting, in part, from the > experience described by my uncle who subsequently underwent a radical [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > that women experience every day, and I should get over it. > Is this GP the one who is to perform the biopsy? She certainly seems to by sympathy-challenged. > Can anyone here describe for me the degree of pain experienced during > and after the biopsy procedure? > After the procedure, the record I've seen seems to indicate that there is little/no pain, but other effects, particularly blood in semen and urine, can occur and persist for a few days. As for the procedure itself, I cannot describe the degree of pain I experienced in two biopsies, one of them trans-urethral. Reason: I demanded and got anesthesia. Dunno where mg1958 (how about a real name? Tnx) resides, but in Arizona a patient has a *legal right* to pain relief. Some men experience much pain, others little. Why gamble when it can easily be avoided? Whatever; I recommend that mg1958 simply demand it and refuse to go forward with the biopsy unless he is satisfied. This is no time to prove one's macho-ness. Be assured that, if a medic is forced to it by a firm and demanding patient -- who is also right -- the medic will agree. I recommend getting this settled immediately -- today. Regards, Steve J "Empowerment: taking responsibility for, and authority over one's own outcomes based on education and knowledge of the consequences and contingencies involved in one's own decisions. This focus provides the uplifting energy that can sustain in the face of crisis." --Donna Pogliano, co-author of _A Primer on Prostate Cancer_, subtitled "The Empowered Patient's Guide." > Thanks. I live in New York. I intend to take your advice and be certain before the start of the procedure of an assurance of complete unconsciousness. Is there a particular anesthesia that is more effective, that I might ask for? I did ask for a Valium to take prior to the biopsy. The doctor told me it could interfere with the antesthesia, claiming that I won't need it (the Valium that is). Though actually, I could use some right about now. Thanks. Tom > > I'm somewhat hesitant to post this here since I know that the prostate > > biopsy that I have scheduled for Monday is unavoidable and a necessary [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > > Thanks. On August 25, Tom replied to me: > I live in New York. I intend to take your advice and be certain before > the start of the procedure of an assurance of complete unconsciousness. > Good! Show them who is in charge! > Is there a particular anesthesia that is more effective, that I might > ask for? > Sorry, I don't recall what I had (I felt purty good, though). Novocaine? Lidocaine? Other? Go ahead, saw off the other one ;-) (snip) Best of luck. Hope it's a false alarm. Regards, Steve J >I live in New York. I intend to take your advice and be certain before > the start of the procedure of an assurance of complete unconsciousness. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > (the Valium that is). Though actually, I could use some right about > now. With happy juice, you won't need the Valium. There is nothing to worry about. I woke up without a memory of the procedure.  SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06, 6/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 Casodex added daily 07/06 Non Illegitimi Carborundum I had the biopsy on Monday, as I've posted here previously. It's now Friday morning. I'm seeing the urologist this afternoon to hear the results. I suppose we'll discuss surgery options one way or the other - either for bph or cancer. Obviously I'm hoping for the lesser of the two evils. A question I have this morning is how long visible blood in semen is normal, and when it begins to clear. I've seen only a little in my urine and stool, plus a little "spotting" in my underwear (looks a little like my wife's used to periodically!). Last night, for the first time since biopsy (three days hence), I had a look at my semen. I was startled that, while the feeling itself was normal, there was an appearance of ejaculating a full load of dark red blood. It didn't even resemble what I consider to be a normal emission. If I hadn't known to expect *some* blood, I would have been scared. However, it was so dark and so plentiful that I am still wondering what's normal or to be expected. Will the bloody semen clear up more quickly if I ejaculate more often, or is a period of internal healing required? Thanks. Tom *** > After the procedure, the record I've seen seems to indicate that there > is little/no pain, but other effects, particularly blood in semen and > urine, can occur and persist for a few days. *** Hi Tom, I hope for the lesser of two evils for you also. Wow, you got your results back quick. My husband is scheduled this coming Thursday for this biopsy and I was under the impression it would be a week to ten days. As the time grows closer I feel more anxious. We have been dealing with this for 3 months...changing docs and antibotics etc. Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience. Good Luck today. Lisa > I had the biopsy on Monday, as I've posted here previously. It's now > Friday morning. I'm seeing the urologist this afternoon to hear the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > urine, can occur and persist for a few days. > *** > Hi Tom, > > I hope for the lesser of two evils for you also. Wow, you got your > results back quick. My husband is scheduled this coming Thursday for > this biopsy and I was under the impression it would be a week to ten > days. My PSA was 10/17 Biopsy was 11/1 Bad news came 11/3 > A question I have this morning is how long visible blood in semen is > normal, and when it begins to clear. Mine lasted about four weeks. It was bright red for about three weeks, then it turned a rust color in the finale days. Then it was back to normal. John Mine had the consistency of rootbeer from the start. Very watery and more brown than red. It gradually returned to near normal over the course of two months or so but even the last one prior to surgery still wasn't totally normal. Never had a drop of blood in urine. Dave Perry > I had the biopsy on Monday, as I've posted here previously. It's now > Friday morning. I'm seeing the urologist this afternoon to hear the [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > urine, can occur and persist for a few days. > *** Crossing my fingers for a good report! Yes, ketchup is pretty normal. Clean the pipes until you run clear again. I'm not suggesting that you do it 16 times a day but a daily workout should have everything back to normal in a short time. Bev > I had the biopsy on Monday, as I've posted here previously. It's now > Friday morning. I'm seeing the urologist this afternoon to hear the [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > urine, can occur and persist for a few days. > *** Tom wrote: > A question I have this morning is how long visible blood in semen is > normal, and when it begins to clear. I've seen only a little in my > urine and stool, Following both of my biopsies (2001 and 2002), I had no blood in my semen and very little in the urine for 3 or 4 days. Reading the other stories, I'd chalk it up to the skills of the 2 different doctors who performed the biopsies. I didn't get my wish, though I suppose the news could have been worse. Of 12 cores, one was positive for cancer, with a Gleason of 6. I'm scheduled for bone and CT scans on Wednesday, followed by a visit to the uro with my very supportive wife on Friday. At this point, my doctor is recommending a radical prostatectomy. Tom > I had the biopsy on Monday, as I've posted here previously. It's now > Friday morning. I'm seeing the urologist this afternoon to hear the > results. I suppose we'll discuss surgery options one way or the other - > either for bph or cancer. Obviously I'm hoping for the lesser of the > two evils. On September 1, Tom wrote: > I didn't get my wish, though I suppose the news could have been worse. > Of 12 cores, one was positive for cancer, with a Gleason of 6. I'm > scheduled for bone and CT scans on Wednesday, followed by a visit to > the uro with my very supportive wife on Friday. > What percentage of the single core? Has the biopsy been validated by a specialist pathological lab? This is vitally important, as everything from here on depends utterly upon the accuracy of the Gleason score. Here's a list: Bostwick Laboratories, David Bostwick [800] 214-6628 Jon Epstein (Hopkins) [410] 955-5043 or [410] 955-2162 (Dr. Epstein does not do ploidy analysis) David Grignon (Michigan) 313-745-2520 Jon Oppenheimer (Tennessee) [888] 868-7522 Dianon Laboratories 1 [800] 328-2666 (select 5 for client services) UroCor, Inc. 1 [800] 411-1839 The cost is ~$350 and should be covered by insurance. My second biopsy was examined by Bostwick and disclosed information that the local lab had omitted. A word to the wise.... Lacking further detail, this appears to be one of those cases in which Dr. Strum considers the cookbook-medicine CT and bone scans to be wasted time and money. > At this point, my doctor is recommending a radical prostatectomy. > Certainly he is; that's how he pays the rent. I'll bet he's pushing hard for it, too. But is that the best tx for Tom? It's up to Tom to find out. Consult the authoritative website of the e Prostate Cancer Research Institute at: http://prostate-cancer.org/index.html ...and see the section on "Newly Diagnosed." Regards, Steve J "'MD' does not mean 'Medical Deity.'" -- Stephen B. Strum, MD 2nd opinions.. my path goes to Epstein if there is atypia or gleason 5 or anything else weird. Otherwise, I don't find that any other nuances of the path report are going to significantly affect my treatment recommendations. I agree that most patients who come to me from outside, already have a bone scan and CT that are invariably negative. I only order these tests if Gleason 8+ and/or PSA over 20. Re. "doctor pushing prostatectomy because it pays the rent.." doubt it. Most private practice docs would make more money if they referred ALL their prostate cancer patients to radiation and spent that half-day (that they would have been doing Mr. X's prostatectomy) in clinic seeing 20-30 patients, doing DREs, cystos, and biopsies. Even for that ONE patient, they would probably make comparable money just monitoring him every 3 months with a PSA. Based on the way things are going with medicare.. I could do 1 prostatectomy in a half-day and make less than if I did 3 vasectomies in my clinic. But, there probably are docs out there pushing prostatectomy for their own agenda.. perhaps even myself. I'm a salary doc, but I usually advocate what I'm trained in.. which for me is the da Vinci robotic laparoscopic Prostatectomy (dVP). Why? In my (admittedly biased) opinion, it offers the advantages and peace of mind of surgical removal of a cancerous prostate with the least (not zero) amount of surgical morbidity and risk. My advice to Tom would be to take your time and seek multiple opinions.. not just your urologist, maybe a few urologists, radiation oncologists, etc.. Best wishes.. === http://www.DrYew.com http://www.SanDiegoRoboticProstatectomy.com *IMPORTANT* Any comments by me are for general informational purposes only, and should never be used to diagnose or recommend treatments for any condition without face-to-face consultation with a qualified health-care provider. Thank you. === > On September 1, Tom wrote: > > I didn't get my wish, though I suppose the news could have been worse. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > "'MD' does not mean 'Medical Deity.'" > -- Stephen B. Strum, MD From: JYewMD@gmail.com (DrYew.com) I usually advocate what I'm trained in.. which for me is the da Vinci robotic laparoscopic Prostatectomy (dVP). Why? In my (admittedly biased) opinion, it offers the advantages and peace of mind of surgical removal of a cancerous prostate with the least (not zero) amount of surgical morbidity and risk. ==========> dr. yew - i admire your straight forward candor. it is refreshing to find someone who will tell it like it is on all fronts. i remember when i was told that i had prostate cancer and the doctor gave me the different choices. he was also very straight forward and put all the cards on the table. he even made a comment that his boss over the entire hospital had pca and had radiation as his choice of treatment, although he did not agree with that choice. as he talked about the different types of treatment, he made this comment. "i am a surgeon. that is the church that i practice at. so, when i recommend choices, it is hard to be unbias when you are practicing this particular religion". i do agree with your logic. remove the cancer form the body and reduce the chance of the pca spreading. have you heard any more news about the custom made shots to fight cancer? this is where they use the patient's own blood, inject viruses into the blood to teach it "how to fight the particular cancer" and then inject this back into the patient. they have done this with skin cancer patients where the cancer had already mets and the cancer is completely gone from the body. it's not 100%, but they are saving patients in the advance stages. the research team is now trying to develop a shot for liver, breast and prostate cancer. who knows. in the future. got cancer? here....... let me give you a shot for that. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc Thanks for these comments, Dr. Yew. These are the most specific details that I can provide at this time. Any further thoughts by you or anyone with expert knowledge, including seasoned healthcare consumers, would be much appreciated. Tom Age 47, height 5'9", weight 177, Caucasian PSA History: 04/13/2006 - 2.73 04/06/2005 - 2.04 10/13/2004 - 3.09 05/12/2004 - 3.30 04/28/2004 - 4.51 08/06/2003 - 2.73 Biopsy dated 8/29/2006, Dianon Systems, Department of Uropathology, Stratford, Connecticut: "PATHOLOGY CONSULTATION: Specimen 12 [of 12]: Prostate CNB, Left Lateral Base. "DIAGNOSIS: Prostatic adenocarcinoma. Gleason's Score 6 (grades 3 + 3) noted in 1 out of 1 submitted procore segments. Approximately 5% of submitted tissue involved. Negative staining with both CK-903 and P63 in suspicious glands favors the diagnosis of adenocarcinoma of the prostate. In addition, the diagnosis of prostatic adenocarcinoma is supported by the positive staining for P504S (racemase), which is preferentially expressed in prostate cancer. All three stains were ordered to determine the nature/behavior of the atypical/suspicious focus of glands. This has been reviewed at the daily intradepartmental conference. "COMMENTS: In cases similar to this with less than 1.0 millimeters of Gleason Score less than or equal to 6 cancer on the biopsy core, approximately 50% of the corresponding radical prostatectomy speciments contain very small (less than 0.1 cc) cancer. "GROSS DESCRIPTION: (12) Container/Location: Left lateral base. Received: in formalin. Pieces: 1; Measurement: 16 mm. Description: pale tissue. Ink: not received. Submitted: in 1 cassette. "BIOPSY SUMMARY: Location: left lateral base (core 1/1). Diagnosis: 3+3=6. Core Length (mm): 16. Tumor length (mm): 0.8. % Tumor: 5%. Tumor Position From Inked Margin: Not inked." > 2nd opinions.. my path goes to Epstein if there is atypia or gleason 5 > or [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] > > "'MD' does not mean 'Medical Deity.'" > > -- Stephen B. Strum, MD >I didn't get my wish, though I suppose the news could have been worse. > Of 12 cores, one was positive for cancer, with a Gleason of 6. SON OF A BITCH!!! Sorry, Tom. Looks like you can trade your pass in for a full-service membership. > I'm > scheduled for bone and CT scans on Wednesday, followed by a visit to > the uro with my very supportive wife on Friday. What was you PSA? Stage? Age? Supportive wives are, IMHO, worth their weight in oil. While you are scared shitless, mad, crying, shocked, and in denial, somehow a wife and ford through the research and keep you aware. Eventually, hopefully before you decide, you will also be involved and the two of you will come to the decision. Steve, Thanks so much for your emphatic empathy. You hit it. Generally, my response to stress, for better or worse, is to analyze and try to get a rational grip. Sometimes in my life tendency that has proven to had survival value for me. Sometimes it's been not at all useful or even counterproductive. In this case, it's probably fairly useful. I just posted my biopsy results in another post, but here's a repeat of the PSA history as I have it, and responses to your other questions. As to stage, I don't know the answer. Age 47, height 5'9", weight 177, Caucasian PSA History: 08/29/2006 - 2.70 [biopsy performed] 04/13/2006 - 2.73 04/06/2005 - 2.04 10/13/2004 - 3.09 05/12/2004 - 3.30 [recommendation withdrawn by the same uro] 04/28/2004 - 4.51 [biopsy recommended by uro] 08/06/2003 - 2.73 FamHx includes a paternal uncle with prostate cancer at age 67, paternal grandmother who died at about that same age of lymphatic lymphoma, maternal grandmother and uncle whose deaths were related to smoking-related cancers. I've seen the questions others here, including Dr. Yew, have raised about the necessity for a bone scan and CT. However, at the moment I'll follow this doctor's advice. I don't see that they will hurt anything. They can't do anything but provide more information, and they cost me nothing except (maybe) a $15 co-pay. No time is wasted since it's unlikely that I'd find another urologist before next Friday when I'm scheduled to see my doctor again. This is actually the fourth uro that I've seen in recent months about symptoms that seemed consistent with BPH (increased frequency, impaired flow, urgency, inabilty to empty, etc.) The first two seemed unduly dismissive of my concerns, and the third one, newly out of residence, recommended a TURP -- of which he said he had performed the vast sum of 30 in his young career. The doctor I've recently begun seeing, who urgently recommended the recent biopsy due to what he said were a consistent string of PSA score that he said were high for my age, is probably the most qualified urologist/oncologist (actually, the only one doubled boarded uro/oncol) that I've found in my region. I live in a semi-rural area of New York about two hours upstate from the top of Manhattan. It's not that I'm unwilling to travel, but I do feel a need for a competent doc close to home who is willing to spend time listening to me and answering questions. I appreciate the information that I've gathered from this group already, not the least of which is the reference to DaVinci Robitic Surgery. While there are no doctors in my immediate are listed in the database at (http://www.davinciprostatectomy.com/hospitals.html) I do find several there who are within a few hours drive. If he were within range for me, I'd be camped on Dr. Yew's doorstep. It's truly rare and wonderful to find an emininent physician like Dr. Yew who is willing to provide pro bono advice in a forum like this. I'm grateful for his remarks, and for all the rest, and for the newsgroup itself... which reminds me of a rhetorical question that I've seen more than once attributed to Thomas Jefferson (though I can't cite an exact source): "Who then can so softly bind up the wound of another as he who has felt the same wound himself?" Thank you. Tom > SON OF A BITCH!!! > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > decide, you will also be involved and the two of you will come to the > decision. > I just posted my biopsy results in another post, but here's a repeat of > the PSA history as I have it, and responses to your other questions. As > to stage, I don't know the answer. Stage is something you might be able to figure out from what he has told you. Palpability and amount of and percentage of cancer within the each lobe makes up the Stage. Did he tell you that he could feel it when he did the digital rectal exam? If I recall, it was found in one needle. That would probably make it less than 50% of one lobe. If he felt it and the biopsy showed occupies less than one half of one lobe, it's a T2a. If he didn't feel it, then it's T1c. The Partin Tables would indicate that with a 4.51, Stage T2a, and Gleason 6, your chance of it all being contained within the gland is about 66%. If T1c, it's about 80% (but T1c might have some special circumstances). Research is still necessary, but it sounds like surgery just might cure you. Steve, I've had two or more DREs a year since 2004 by four different doctors and no one has ever said anything about any palpable concerns until I started complaining of urinary frequency. The two urologists told me my prostate felt "slightly enlarged" and I "probably" had BPH. No mention of nodules or any irregularities, ever. I assume that when I go back on Friday to the uro who supervised the biopsy he'll do another DRE (I am a new patient to him and he has not physically examined me yet). It will be interesting to hear if, knowing that I do have cancer, he tells me that he feels something that none of the other doctors (two uros and an internist) did. So, from what you say, at the moment I guess I'm at T1c, though I'm still not clear on exactly what that means. I'll do some googling on the terms you use. Thanks for the clarification. Tom > > I just posted my biopsy results in another post, but here's a repeat of > > the PSA history as I have it, and responses to your other questions. As [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Research is still necessary, but it sounds like surgery just might cure you. Start with "TNM Staging System" "Partin Tables" But, at some point, you're going to want to read a book. I would have loved to read Walsh with numbers like yours. And, I have heard great things about Scardino's book. I have it, but haven't read it yet. > So, from what you say, at the moment I guess I'm at T1c, though I'm > still not clear on exactly what that means. I'll do some googling on [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> Research is still necessary, but it sounds like surgery just might cure >> you. Steve, These are helpful suggestions and much appreciated. Can you give me a bit more to go on, or perhaps a couple of links, for the "Walsh" and "Scardino" books you mention? Thanks very much! Tom > Start with > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to read Walsh with numbers like yours. And, I have heard great things about > Scardino's book. I have it, but haven't read it yet. > Steve, > > These are helpful suggestions and much appreciated. Can you give me a > bit more to go on, or perhaps a couple of links, for the "Walsh" and > "Scardino" books you mention? Sorry, thought you'd already been advised by someone else: Dr. Patrick Walsh -- Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer Dr. Peter Scardino -- Prostate Book Both are available in libraries and bookstores. Walsh's book was called "The Bible" by most of us early in the millennium. Several of us used to just say, "page 151" and others would know we were talking about Staging. Scardino's is newer and, I'm told, easier to read. I use Walsh as a quick reference because I'm familiar with it. You might want to start with Scardino. Dr. Steven Strum also wrote one -- A primer on Prostate Cancer. It is also very good, but I find it better for people who aren't cured. You might never have to read it. SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06, 6/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 Casodex added daily 07/06 Non Illegitimi Carborundum > Sorry, thought you'd already been advised by someone else: > > Dr. Patrick Walsh -- Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer > Dr. Peter Scardino -- Prostate Book Re: Scardino book: The Prostate Book I'm sure you can get these books on b&n.com or amazon.com. I haven't read the walsh book but highly recommend the scardino. It was published only last year so it is very up-to-date. I found dr scardino's tone to be firm yet encouraging. I felt like he was speaking to me personally. The Prostate Book was on the Economist's "Top Ten Books of 2005" list. I happen to read this mag but i'll bet the book got other awards as well. Imagine a book about this subject getting so much acclaim and attention! The only thing is: beware of dr scardino's metaphors. For example, he writes that the penis is "a feat of mechanical engineering." (pp. 357-58). Congratulations. But for us non-engineers the operations of this machinery can be confounding. My personal favorite: "An erection is like a rubber tire. If you puncture the tire it will deflate..." (same with an erection??) (P. 357). I have never heard of anyone having a leak in his penis so i really scratched my head over this one until (with some help) I figured out that what he meant to say was that both an erection and a rubber tire are a type of "valve" (a pipe with a stopgap on one end). Beyond that the analogy fails miserably. Here's another one: "The erectile nerves run around the prostate like strings around a package." I couldn't even begin to fathom what this meant. I pictured the prostate with strings wrapped around it and a little bow in the middle. My husb. explained that what was he was probably saying is that the erectile nerves run along the outer surface of the prostate etc. Good luck, Leah Sorry for the repetition. I thought the first message didn't post. > Steve, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > to read Walsh with numbers like yours. And, I have heard great things about > > Scardino's book. I have it, but haven't read it yet. Re: Scardino book You can probably find these books at b&n.com or amazon.com or any bookstore (at least the scardino book, which I am familiar with.) One advantage of the scardino book is that it was published in 2005 so it has all the recent info. The Prostate Book was on the Economist magazine's "top ten books of 2005." I happen to read this mag but I'll bet it got other awards as well. Who would have imagined a book on this subject would get such acclaim or interest. Dr. Scardino is firm yet encouraging. You feel like he's talking to you personally. I have to say that occasionally dr. scardino slips up big time when it comes to analogies. For example, he writes that the "penis is a feat of mechanical engineering." Congratulations. But this fact is unfortunate for those of us who are not engineers. At one point he compares an erection to a rubber tire: if you puncture the tire it deflates; (so you think) ditto for an erection. I really scratched my head over this one bec I never heard of anyone with a leaky penis. Eventually I figured out that he was saying was that both an erection and a tire form a type of "valve" (had to look that oneup) . . . however, beyond that the analogy failed miserably. Also at one point he wrote that the erectile nerves run along the prostate "like strings along a package." Couldn't fathom that one at all. I imagined the prostate gift-wrapped with a bow in the middle. (He meant that erectile nerves run along the outer edge of the prostate.) Happy reading. Leah > Will the bloody semen clear up more quickly if I ejaculate more often, You need an EXCUSE? ;-) I.P. It wasn't that long ago that docs were not using local anesthetics and biopsies could be quite painful. Today many docs first apply topical lidocaine to the area with a swab. Once the area is numb, xylocaine is injected. The procedre is much akin to what a dentist might do prior to drilling a tooth. This procedure is adequate for most men. After this procedure, you feel the pressure of the biopsy gun up your butt (that may be uncomfortable, but generally not painful), and then little snaps when the biopsy needle is injected into the prostate. Of course, all men are different, some may not need this procedure, some may need more numbing. Stronger measures such as sedatives are available. Discuss this with your doc prior to the biopsy and make sure he has a plan to handle any level of pain and discomfort...Best wishes and good health, ron > I'm somewhat hesitant to post this here since I know that the prostate > biopsy that I have scheduled for Monday is unavoidable and a necessary [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Thanks. I had a beer and a 10mg Valium on the way to the biopsy. Then once there, I got an anesthetic along with some antibiotics afterwards to prevent infection. Worked for me, no pain while it was being performed (except for a slight stinging feeling when the uro gave the initial anesthetic shot) nor any pain afterwards. I hope that the female GP is not going to do the biopsy. Sounds like she may want you to feel what it's like to have a baby.) B.A. Don't ever worry about posting something. We're here to help. Well the guys out here are going to tell you that they either felt nothing, or a slight prick, to the feel of a rubber band snapping. Most biopsies are done under a local anesthesia and if in doubt ask before they do it! If they say no they don't use anything - tell them "no thanks" and walk out! Then find another doc who does. Did they give you anything such as a Rx to take the morning of the biopsy to help keep you calm? I know how bad anxiety levels can get and I'm sure right now you feel like a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs! Honestly my husband felt nothing more then some pressure in the rectum and once in a while he felt a prick but the prick wasn't painful it was more of bodily reaction maybe to the sound or to the sampling. My husband described it as weird sensation and was most pleased when it was over. He willing jumped off that table and put his pants back on when it was over! Do you have someone to go with who can drive? Consider taking a cup of coffee, ice tea, fruit juice, or bottled water with you, then maybe, walk around for a few minutes afterwards to compose yourself before leaving the doctor's office area. The worst part of the whole procedure even with an anesthetic is that they are putting something in an orifice that for most people normally used as an "out" and not as an "in". You aren't going to feel pain but you'll know they are putting something in there. And that is for most people a weird feeling. You'll do just fine. You'll be back out here Monday night telling us it wasn't that bad and you had worried for nothing. Bev (I'm sorry but a biopsy is nothing compared to having a baby.) > I'm somewhat hesitant to post this here since I know that the prostate > biopsy that I have scheduled for Monday is unavoidable and a necessary [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Thanks. First, a general thanks to all who have replied in this thread. This is a helpful forum, and I appreciate the information and the time each individual spent to respond. To answer a few questions, when I asked the urologist about anesthesia he said that I would not be awake at all. This is what I want -- not to be conscious at all. I can do without the video observation, as interesting as it might be if I were not so personally involved. I interpreted the statement to mean general anesthesia. But it's going to be in the office, so I seriously doubt that I will be intubated. If I'm breathing on my own power, is "general anesthesia" the right term? I learned long ago to be skeptical of doctors who tell me I "won't feel a thing" or "just a vibration". On the other hand, I also realize that I may be building myself up for a worse experience by the over-thinking in advance. No, my GP will not be performing the biopsy. I merely had a conversation with her about it. Her comparison of it to childbirth was memorable while evoking respect. I like my GP a lot and didn't find the comment so much unsympathetic as illustrative and educaitonal. I'm told the biopsy will most likely be performed by a physician's assistant (whom I met briefly), with the urologist there to take over if needed; and an anesthesiologist at the PA's side. The uro told me that his assistant has performed a very large number of prostate biopsies and he persuaded me to trust her (but this doesn't remove the anxiety). My wife will accompany me for the purpose of driving home. I informed my employer that I would be off work both Monday and Tuesday, but that I might come to work on Tuesday if I'm feeling well. My job is fairly sedantary and involves a lot of sitting, which the nurse at the uro's office told me could possibly be uncomfortable. Anyone else experience this? As to the issue of going up the down staircase, or in the out porthole, that's not much of a concern. Enemas aren't unfamilar to me, and DREs aren't a bother. I'm not exactly clear on the size of the tool that's used to perform the biopsy (is it a knife or what?), but the idea of pain scares me much more than that of being "penetrated". Thanks again to all for the kind replies. Tom > Don't ever worry about posting something. We're here to help. > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Bev (I'm sorry but a biopsy is nothing compared to having a baby.) Well my husband said they told him the bigger the piece of equipment the better so his assistant tried the normal sized one first. My husband just looked at it and said "It's not going to fit!" And guess what? It didn't, so they had to try the small one which my husband didn't think was going to fit either. He describes it as a tunnel like thing that opens you up so that they can get the real piece of equipment in there that takes the samples. He said the tunnel thing they used on him was smaller than a vacuum cleaner hose. He said to tell you he hates DRE's more than that thing. He has an office job and was back to work the next day. Bev > First, a general thanks to all who have replied in this thread. This is > a helpful forum, and I appreciate the information and the time each [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > > > Bev (I'm sorry but a biopsy is nothing compared to having a baby.) There is no knife involved. Tiny needles are "shot" into the prostate. If a DRE doesn't bother you this probably won't either. I took a Valium before I left but had nothing for pain once there and didn't need it. Whatever they insert is bigger than a finger but not much. If they put you under you have no worrys. I've had a number of surgeries and my wife is a surgical nurse. This is not a big deal. Wishing you a negative outcome, Tom > First, a general thanks to all who have replied in this thread. This is > a helpful forum, and I appreciate the information and the time each [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > > > Bev (I'm sorry but a biopsy is nothing compared to having a baby.) Tom: You're probably so full of information at this point that you don't need any more. But I'm here, so let me add my two cents. I probably had six biopsies before I got the confirmation I was not looking forward to. My first few biopsies were before they started to numb the prostate, so I have had the most uncomfortable to the most bearable. First, with the numbing that has been described in a prior posting the most discomfort is when the doc uses a rather long needle (which you won't be looking at) to inject the prostate and numb it. It is less painful than when the dentist numbs you gums. Then, when he inserts the instrument, it is also uncomfortable - but not what I would call painful. When the doc takes the actual samples it feels like a staple gun being shot - except where you are numb (where you really can't feel it). It is the anticipation of the next blast that isn't a picnic. . But the whole experience is not really painful. Afterward you will have blood in your urine and semen for a little while. I can't imagine wanting to be knocked out for the procedure. It is uncomfortable, and perhaps mildly painful for a very short time, but you'll get through it easily. I think you're building up the anxiety level unnecessarily - but that's only my opinion, and we all know what opinions are worth. Best of luck with this and the future. Steve > My wife will accompany me for the purpose of driving home. I informed > my employer that I would be off work both Monday and Tuesday, but that > I might come to work on Tuesday if I'm feeling well. My job is fairly > sedantary and involves a lot of sitting, which the nurse at the uro's > office told me could possibly be uncomfortable. Anyone else experience > this? Back then I was either at a desk or in a car. And, I was back the next day without any problem. SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06, 6/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 Casodex added daily 07/06 Non Illegitimi Carborundum > First, a general thanks to all who have replied in this thread. This is > a helpful forum, and I appreciate the information and the time each [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > > > Bev (I'm sorry but a biopsy is nothing compared to having a baby.) I had a beer and a 10mg Valium on the way to the biopsy. Then once there, I got an anesthetic along with some antibiotics afterwards to prevent infection. Worked for me, no pain while it was being performed (except for a slight stinging feeling when the uro gave the initial anesthetic shot) nor any pain afterwards. I hope that the female GP is not going to do the biopsy. Sounds like she may want you to feel what it's like to have a baby.) B.A. Sorry Ron, I meant the response to mountainguy. My uro used a local and gave me either demerol or valium, hmm, funny I can't remember which, and I was fine, very fine. The uro and nurses said it would feel like I was getting snapped with a rubber band but If hadn't been watching on the monitor as the doc was doing the biopsy, I don't think I ever would have known when the biopsy needle went in. I did have the option of doing it with a general but passed on that option. I wanted to get it done and over with and get the hell out of there. > I'm somewhat hesitant to post this here since I know that the prostate > biopsy that I have scheduled for Monday is unavoidable and a necessary [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Thanks. My husband just had a biopsy yesterday. He said it was unpleasant, but not painful. He said that he heard the needle gun click but that he felt no pain. I hope your doctor uses an injection into the prostate. My husband's did and it apparently makes a big difference. We stopped using uro #1 (We're up to #2) because we found out that he didn't use any kind of anesthetizing protocol. BTW, my husband said the doctor took 18 samples. That sounds like a lot. Anyone else had that many samples taken? CW89134 _______________________________________________________________ > I'm somewhat hesitant to post this here since I know that the prostate > biopsy that I have scheduled for Monday is unavoidable and a necessary [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Thanks. Mine originally said he was taking 6 but once he got in there he ended up doing 12. > My husband just had a biopsy yesterday. He said it was unpleasant, but > not painful. He said that he heard the needle gun click but that he [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> >> Thanks. 18 is reasonable nowadays. I think before when docs didn't give sedation and use lidocaine, they could only get away with taking 10-12 before the patient would retaliate. My patients seem pretty comfortable, so I try to do at least 18. They are here and prepped and sedated, so I try to get as much info as possible. My nurse preps the anus with a betadine+lidocaine jelly mixture, and squirts the rest into the rectum and then talks to the patient about the procedure, what to expect, post-biopsy care, etc.. that goes for about 5-6 minutes before I come in and do the ultrasound, and inject lidocaine at 4 points around the prostate, take some pictures for a few minutes, then start doing the biopsies. I've been told it's ok. But occasionally, patients experience a shock or stinging that radiates to the tip of the penis. My patients all get valium before the biopsy, but one of my early patients a long time ago nearly jumped to the ceiling just from the "pop" sound of the biopsy gun. So now, I warn them and do a few test pops in mid-air just so he can hear the sound, and before every biopsy I say "1-2-3-pop". Hope this helps. It's no picnic, but it's not that bad, I hear. Patient: "will this hurt, doc?" DrYew: "me? no, not a bit" (I only use this if I think the valium has kicked in!) === http://www.DrYew.com http://www.SanDiegoRoboticProstatectomy.com *IMPORTANT* Any comments by me are for general informational purposes only, and should never be used to diagnose or recommend treatments for any condition without face-to-face consultation with a qualified health-care provider. Thank you. === > My husband just had a biopsy yesterday. He said it was unpleasant, but > not painful. He said that he heard the needle gun click but that he [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > > Thanks. > 18 is reasonable nowadays. I think before when docs didn't give > sedation and [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > any condition without face-to-face consultation with a qualified > health-care provider. Thank you. My doc had much the same information for me. He discribed it beforehand as an "uncomfortable" experence. It seemed as the procedure advanced that I had more feeling and perhaps more pain, but it may have been just the noise and anticipation of the next shot. After it was completed I drove home and had no other problems except for a bit of bleeding. My surgeon did not do the operation for at least two months after the biopsy. Sept for bio and Dec for the op. Dale j. RP 02/12/02 G6, post G6 > === > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > > > > > Thanks. SignatureEmail: dalej2@mac.com > BTW, my husband said the doctor took 18 samples. That sounds like a > lot. Anyone else had that many samples taken? The more, the better. SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06, 6/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 Casodex added daily 07/06 Non Illegitimi Carborundum The quack who did my biopsy, gave me a local and then started snipping immediately. As a result, the first 6 or 7 snips were excruciating. Then the local obviously kicked in and the balance of the samples were almost painless. A WORD TO THE WISE! -Gordy > I'm somewhat hesitant to post this here since I know that the prostate > biopsy that I have scheduled for Monday is unavoidable and a necessary [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Thanks. > ... > Can anyone here describe for me the degree of pain experienced during > and after the biopsy procedure? My biopsy was 12 needles with no anaesthetic. I would describe it as unpleasant but not horrible. Each snip gave a little shock and made me react slightly, but I thought it was no worse than getting needles stuck in your arm or the other minor pains of life. I didn't like it, but the total amount of pain was not as bad as, say, stubbing your toe. Alan Hello Mountain Guy, The bark is worse than the bite. I drove over 80 miles to the Dr. had the biopsy done with not meds. I complained that the instrument was not very smooth. He said to me, "do you want it to feel good" I said nothing, and actually would rather it feel smooth, and not rough. It went well, and is a good tool to find out what is going on. It is not fun, and then it is over.... Don't worry Mountain Guy, I drove home the same day, and picked up a hitchhiker that was out of luck, and bucks.... He said he was have troubles...... Funny if I explained to him what I just went through.. Ok, it is an intrusion, you can handle it, you will do fine. Be glad they do not have to cut you open...... Best wishes, and let us know how it comes out! That is what this is all about. You should stand right up, and be proud that we have medical info that helps you out! John Loomis...Prostate cancer survivor 1999 > I'm somewhat hesitant to post this here since I know that the prostate > biopsy that I have scheduled for Monday is unavoidable and a necessary [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Thanks. > Can anyone here describe for me the degree of pain experienced during > and after the biopsy procedure? During the procedure: None. Zero. Nada. Zip. Just another widget up my yeng-yeng. And that was wide awake with no drugs other than any topical anesthetic there may have been in the jelly the doc lubricated me with. The colon wall has no pain sensors other than stretch sensors (think gas pains), and our prostate apparently has minimal pain sensors as well. My urologist said my experience was the norm, but was still surprised when one pt rode his bicycle to and from his biopsy. Post-biopsy: my crotch ached a bit that evening. Not enough to take a Tylenol, but noticeable. If my doctor had not told me he was sticking a dozen needles in me, I would not have known I had any more done than a rough DRE, real time or that evening. But then, of course, a week of bloody semen and achy orgasms would have scared the hell out of me. If you're truly afraid of needles, take a Tylenol (NOT an aspirin!) before the bx and you'll probably think the doc was kidding about the needles. A routine dental cleaning hurts much more than a prostate bx. Now THAT I take an anesthetic rinse for. I.P. A routine dental cleaning hurts much more than a prostate bx. Now THAT I > take an anesthetic rinse for. I agree with IP on that one, just had one yesterday. My biopsie did't really hurt either. It wasn't fun, but even though it brought bad news for me, maybe yours won't. I hope it's neg. A question here, the dentist yesterday took an x-ray and said there was bone damage or loss on my jawbone. He's referred me to a peridontist for further examination. Question: can PC get in the Jawbone but be undetectable ina PSA or CAT scan? Thanks David > > Can anyone here describe for me the degree of pain experienced during > > and after the biopsy procedure? [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > I.P. David wrote: > A question here, the dentist yesterday took an x-ray and said there > was bone damage or loss on my jawbone. He's referred me to a > peridontist for further examination. Have you taken Fosamax? Any NSAID's? DMARD's > Question: can PC get in the Jawbone but be undetectable in a PSA > or CAT scan? Wouldn't it have to travel the length of you torso and neck to do that? I'm sure your spine would be totally out of whack first. And there's also your heart and lungs on the way up. NICK, for sure all those things would be in the way. I was under the impression a PC cell could float around in the blood and attach to the brain or bone anywhere in the body. I do HOPE that's wrong. No, no Fosamax, 1 aspirin a day , sometimes, ditto Ibuphrophen > David wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > And there's also your heart and lungs on the way up. > Wouldn't it have to travel the length of you torso and neck to do > that? > I'm sure your spine would be totally out of whack first. No, the cells can deposit themselves anyplace they like. > the dentist yesterday took an x-ray and said there was > bone damage or loss on my jawbone. I surely hope you're not on an osteoporosis drug such as Fosamax. Those are destroying jawbones in some pts. I.P. No, not on Fosamaxh. Had Eligard on 06/30/06. Tylenol at night. (1000 mg). that's all the drugs currently. I finished my 32nd RT (IGRT) Friday. The dentist was alerted because I've had a toothache. The tooth has no decay and was falling into the tooth in front of it. It's the last tooth towards the rear on the right jawbone.An x-ray showed a dark spot under the tooth and going back further on the jawbone aways. He just backed off right there and referred me to another dentist I'll see monday. David > > the dentist yesterday took an x-ray and said there was > > bone damage or loss on my jawbone. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I.P. > No, not on Fosamaxh. Had Eligard on 06/30/06. Same game, different name. See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?tmpl=NoSidebarfile&db=PubMed&cmd=R etrieve&list_uids=16314620&dopt=Abstract for starters. But since you're new to it and SEs are duration-dependent, your jaw damage is unlikely to be ONJ necrosis . . . yet. I.P. > David >>> the dentist yesterday took an x-ray and said there was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> I.P. > "the most painful experience of [his] life," and that he > nearly passed out from pain in the car afterward. I nearly passed out --- from the lack of a working air conditioning system in the damned doctor's office on one of the hottest, muggiest days of the summer. But my wife was by my side, holding my hand, and I didn't feel pain. If you're that scared of a biopsy, volunteer to have a mammogram. Mammograms are not that bad for most women, really. The new computerized imaging makes it pretty simple. It's no longer the garage door slamming down on us, although the techs will say it is harder on women with small breasts, because they have less to squish, then on larger breasted women. But I will say women have been poked and probed more than men over the years and often with, "you're only going to feel a little pinch." H*LL, NO! Bev > > "the most painful experience of [his] life," and that he > > nearly passed out from pain in the car afterward. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > If you're that scared of a biopsy, volunteer to have > a mammogram. >say women have been poked and probed more than men over the years< Bev, I agree whole heartedly. I know of no men that are happy about it, but if it saves or even keeps the health and beauty of those we love, we are grateful the procedures are there. It's been odd to me to hear the number of women that are almost, if not downright, gleeful, to find out that PC victims have to experience hot flashes or invasive, painful procedures. If I've heard once, I've heard 100 times since my diagnosis,"Oh, now you see what women go through!!" I really don't think men constructed the biological features. It's our mothers, daughters, and lovers/friends that endure those pains. We're not indifferent unsympathetic to them. We're not stupid, we just can't, as yet, do anything for them. I wish we could. We can see and don't like suffering by anyone. This PC is not fun. I haven't suffered any unbearable pain with it, but I have talked to a couple of women that weren't that good at hiding their smug attitude at what it's changed in my life. They were the exceptions. > Mammograms are not that bad for most women, really. The new computerized > imaging makes it pretty simple. It's no longer the garage door slamming down [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > If you're that scared of a biopsy, volunteer to have > > a mammogram. Unfortunately people are people and not everyone is nice. I'm married to a man who has never, ever been sick with a cold. The number of times I'd like to wish one on him just so he has some idea what it is like - well, I wouldn't. His idea of a cold is to sneeze twice and blow his nose once. Then I catch it ... :-( And he wonders why I'm sick? Yep, right, it's all in my head! It's in the nose, the sinuses, the ears, the throat and it messes with the brain, too. And that is why the dishes are still in the sink. But when it comes down to it I wouldn't want to wish childbirth on a man. Personally I think having exclusive rights to some things as a female is just fine with me. Yes, being a female comes with its own set of problems but that is all part of being a female. I don't expect a male to really understand the menstrual cycle, just be prepared to make a chocolate run at 10 pm without too much complaining. (No, we didn't know we were going to need chocolate because if we did we would have bought $30 worth of expensive chocolate earlier when we at the store buying the groceries for your dinner!) Yes, hot flashes are annoying but they aren't painful nor are they earth shattering. I doubt anyone ever died from one. At least the guys can pull their shirts off if they feel the need. LOL I'm not un-sympathetic but I'm probably not overly sympathetic either. It's a hot flash, I'm sorry some of you have to experience them because that means you're on ADT. Yep, now you know what they are like. Have some chocolate! PC is a bitter pill to swallow for a man. Not only is the man poked and probed in ways he's never experienced it also takes so much away from him. It's the shattering of all those things he took for granted and figured he'd always have that probably hurts the worst. I'm sorry that people are not nicer about it. Bev >SNIP< > This PC is not fun. I haven't suffered any unbearable pain with it, > but I have talked to a couple of women that weren't that good at hiding > their smug attitude at what it's changed in my life. They were the > exceptions. > I'm married to a man who has never, ever been sick with a cold. The number > of times I'd like to wish one on him just so he has some idea what it is > like - well, I wouldn't. His idea of a cold is to sneeze twice and blow his > nose once. Then I catch it ... :-( And he wonders why I'm sick? I had to laugh. I got sick as blazes a decade or two ago, and probably whined endlessly because it was new to me. My wife finally said, "It's a COLD, you SOB. Get over it!" Didn't like it, don't intend to get another one. ;-) SO FAR, PC beats a lifetime of annual colds. The leading cold researcher in the U.S. told me I'm not alone, that many people (still a very low percentage) never get colds. I.P. Get yer flu shots, too. > I'm somewhat hesitant to post this here since I know that the prostate > biopsy that I have scheduled for Monday is unavoidable and a necessary [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Thanks. The others have more or less covered the ground. Few men describe it as extremely painful, even without local anesthesia. Use of general anesthesia seems to me to be unwarranted. It also has very small risks, so it should be avoided where it isn't necessary. I had local anesthesia, and 12 cores taken. I was happy when he was done, but, overall, the whole thing wasn't as bad as a typical cleaning by a dental hygienist. I drove myself home. I did experience some rectal discomfort afterwards because the procedure activated my hemorhoids. I called my doctor and he prescribed some suppositories, but by the time I got them, the pain was gone. I took some self prescribed Xanax prior and it was very helpful. The probe was not uncomfortable. The lidocaine injections stung. The taking of the 12 samples was uncomfortable, but bearable. Teeth cleaning is much easier, IMHO. The only blood I saw afterwards was in my semen, for about 4 weeks. If it were up to me, I would have patients sedated in a manner similar to when you have a colonoscopy. Scheduled for RRP on 9/18. >The others have more or less covered the ground. Few men describe it as >extremely painful, even without local anesthesia. Use of general [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >activated my hemorhoids. I called my doctor and he prescribed some >suppositories, but by the time I got them, the pain was gone. > If it were up to me, I would have patients sedated in a manner similar > to when you have a colonoscopy. OTOH, I get even less -- i.e., zero -- sedation/anesthetic with colonoscopies. At least I probably had some Lidocaine in the biopsy jelly. Colonoscopies shouldn't hurt as long as the pt keeps passing the gas to relieve the pressure, because all a colon wall can feel is distension; I couldn't even feel the doc trying to excise my golf-ball-sized tumor with a wire snare. Overall, less pain than a dental cleaning for me. I.P. > I'm somewhat hesitant to post this here since I know that the prostate > biopsy that I have scheduled for Monday is unavoidable and a necessary [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Thanks. After the sixth or seventh take it had a little different feel. I woulden't be to concerned, it really was not bad at all, much less than having a tooth drilled without novocain, which I've had when in my teens. The dentist then didn't beleive in having novocain, LOL. He was a ex Army dentist and a tough old bird. That was 50 years ago. Dale j. SignatureEmail: dalej2@mac.com Once again I want to thank all who've posted on this thread for your time and consideration. There was some question yesterday about whether my procedure tomorrow might be cancelled, as they hadn't received medical clearance from my GP. However, I believe that's been taken care of and it's still on track. I'll post after it's over, and also with the outcome when available. Best wishes, Tom > After the sixth or seventh take it had a little different feel. I > woulden't be to concerned, it really was not bad at all, much less than > having a tooth drilled without novocain, which I've had when in my > teens. The dentist then didn't beleive in having novocain, LOL. He was > a ex Army dentist and a tough old bird. That was 50 years ago. As promised, here's my report. A delay in the waiting room further heightened my anxiety, but my fears were soon put to rest with the aid of a shot of Versid. When I awoke, the PA she took 12 samples. As I hoped would be the case, I have no memory of the experience. No pain or adverse effects to this point, aside some mild soreness in the rectum. Anyone reading this who is worrying about a biopsy experience can rest a bit easier. for whatever reason, I believe that I have a heightened sensitivity to pain, which the urologist told me during my last visit is common among people with ADHD (something I've never heard before). I am wondering about the accuracy of my note-taking. After awakening, I wrote down that the PA told me my prostate was 43 ounces. I'm guessing that should be grams, not ounces. (More likely my error than hers, as I was still feeling the anesthesia.) Is that much larger than average for a 48-year-old man? I have had urinary symptoms (frequency, decreased flow, etc.) which is what led me to the uro most recently. Thanks for the support. Tom > Once again I want to thank all who've posted on this thread for your > time and consideration. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > teens. The dentist then didn't beleive in having novocain, LOL. He was > > a ex Army dentist and a tough old bird. That was 50 years ago. I didn't respond originally since it's been over a year since my biopsy and subsequent RRP and after the surgery my biopsy is hardly a significant memory. But since you made the ADHD reference I thought I'd weigh in. I had no pain medicine other than the novacaine mixed with the lubricant. I had 12 samples. After the first few it felt like someone was presssing hard on my prostate and wouldn't stop. Then it got to be more like a burning sensation. It subsided somewhat after it was over. Before I was diagnosed with PC I was diagnosed a few months earlier with ADD (no hyperactivity component) so that reference intrigued me. So my 49th year of life was an eventful one. I do have a very low threshold for discomfort - I don't like to go barefoot at all outside and a swimming pool with water at 90 degrees feels cold to me. On the other hand I do tolerate pain pretty well. I do not have any novacaine or other pain killer before dental fillings are done - and I've had a lot of them. I was given a bottle of Percosets after my RRP. I had one in the hospital but never had another one. > As promised, here's my report. A delay in the waiting room further > heightened my anxiety, but my fears were soon put to rest with the aid [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Tom > I am wondering about the accuracy of my note-taking. After awakening, I > wrote down that the PA told me my prostate was 43 ounces. I'm guessing > that should be grams, not ounces. Better be 43 grams, or you'll need the "Big Dig" to extract it. (If need be) ;) B.A. I called the doctor's office for clarification. The answer was that my prostate was measured at 43 cc, which the PA said is normal for my age (48). If this is true, it brings me back to the question of why I've been having urinary symptoms consistent with BPH. ??? > > I am wondering about the accuracy of my note-taking. After awakening, I > > wrote down that the PA told me my prostate was 43 ounces. I'm guessing [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > B.A. Well you can't convert grams to cubic centimeters. The conversions go between different units of the same kind of a measurement, or visa versa. BUT, I think that the two methods of volume are somewhat the same. For example, a 46 cc prostate maybe similar to a 46 gram prostate in terms of prostate volume, although I am not very sure of this and I may be scolded later by some of the math wizards here. You may very we within the ranges of prostate size/volume, but size isn't everything. So I've been told anyway. B.A. > Well you can't convert grams to cubic centimeters. The conversions go > between different units of the same kind of a measurement, or visa > versa. BUT, I think that the two methods of volume are somewhat the > same. For example, a 46 cc prostate maybe similar to a 46 gram prostate > in terms of prostate volume You're right. It's meat, i.e. mostly water, and runs about the density of water, which is 1 gm per cc. I.P. In looking for the average sized prostate by age range, I came upon this page (http://tinyurl.com/lkb5z) which alleges: "By the time a man is in his 70s, the prostate gland has reached a maximum weight of 31 grams." As I mentioned, the PA who did my biopsy told me that 46 cc is "about average" for my age of 47 years. It appears that either she's wrong, or the above statement is wrong; or else cubic centimeters don't correlate to grams. Can anyone help clarify this for me? Meanwhile, I'll meet with the urologist this Friday and I'm sure he'll give me more information, including the outcome of the biopsy itself. Thanks. Tom > > Well you can't convert grams to cubic centimeters. The conversions go > > between different units of the same kind of a measurement, or visa [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I.P. The statement is nonsense. I don't know of anyone here who had a prostate weight of 31 grams or less. We were all well above that what with BPH and all. I.P. is correct about the grams/cc stuff. One cc of water/flesh has a weight (mass for us purists) of 1 gram. A 40 cc prostate is a 40 gram prostate +/- a gram or so. Dave Perry > In looking for the average sized prostate by age range, I came upon > this page (http://tinyurl.com/lkb5z) which alleges: "By the time a man [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > > > I.P. Mine was 30cc (30 grams according to your statement below) upon ultrasound biopsy. I am 54 and have had BPH for 10 yrs at least. >The statement is nonsense. I don't know of anyone here who had a >prostate weight of 31 grams or less. We were all well above that what >with BPH and all. I.P. is correct about the grams/cc stuff. One cc of >water/flesh has a weight (mass for us purists) of 1 gram. A 40 cc >prostate is a 40 gram prostate +/- a gram or so. >Dave Perry From: mountainguy1958@gmail.com (mountainguy1958) In looking for the average sized prostate by age range, I came upon this page (http://tinyurl.com/lkb5z) which alleges: "By the time a man is in his 70s, the prostate gland has reached a maximum weight of 31 grams." As I mentioned, the PA who did my biopsy told me that 46 cc is "about average" for my age of 47 years. It appears that either she's wrong, or the above statement is wrong; or else cubic centimeters don't correlate to grams. Can anyone help clarify this for me? Meanwhile, I'll meet with the urologist this Friday and I'm sure he'll give me more information, including the outcome of the biopsy itself. Thanks. Tom ======> hi tom - take what they say with a grain of salt about prostate size until the prostate gets taken out and weighed in on the path table. i still have my photos of the prostate biopsy and the ultra sound measured the size of the prostate and stamped it right on the photo. 29 grams. but when the prostate hit the path table, it weighed almost twice that size at 55 grams. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc c palmer wrote,,,snip... > In looking for the average sized prostate by age range, I came upon this > page (http://tinyurl.com/lkb5z) which alleges: "By the time a man is in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to grams. > Can anyone help clarify this for me? Hi Curtis...Tissue density is usually assumed to be 1.0, so grams = cm^3. Here are excerpts from a couple of studies that looked at prostate size...Best wishes and good health, ron Mod Pathol. 2005 Apr 29; Anatomic distribution and pathologic characterization of small-volume prostate cancer (<0.5 ml) in whole-mount prostatectomy specimens; Cheng L, Jones TD, Pan CX, Barbarin A, Eble JN, Koch MO. The mean age at the time of surgery was 59 years (median, 61 years; range, 37-72 years). The mean prostate weight was 53 g (range: 16-132 g). Prostate. 1999 |
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