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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / August 2006

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dVP da Vinci robotic-laparoscopic Prostatectomy Question

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DrYew.com - 25 Aug 2006 17:14 GMT
Response to an email submitted via my website...
>-----
>Thank you for the time you take to participate in ASCP! I am sure that
>the group would welcome an online chat, at any time of your choosing. I
>know I have enjoyed your comments to the group as well as your excellent
>website. Your medical and personal ethics are obvious to me, and I wish
>you every continued success.
>   >snip<
>   >snip<
>I am interested in suggesting the dVP procedure over RRP to friends,
>however I have a concern about the removal of the prostate from the body
>cavity. Because of the size, is it possible to remove it intact or do you
>do sections or suctioning? Is there cause for concern in inadvertantly
>leaving behind PCa cells that could migrate to bone, etc.? Is there a
>www.site or DVD available that would show the full procedure in .avi or
>.jpg format to answer these questions?
>
>Thank you for your reply, either directly or through the group, and
>please forgive me for my concerns and the length of this post.
>-----

Very valid concerns! The prostate is always removed intact.
There has never been any documented case of prostate cancer spread
by manipulating or puncturing the surface of the prostate. The biology
of
this cancer just does not support such a mode of spread. If I were to
remove the prostate and locate a tumor, remove some cancer cells,
and squirt them back in the pelvic fat where the prostate used to be,
it
would be improbable to cause cancer spread. Keep in mind that many
patients undergo multiple TRANS-RECTAL prostate biopsies, and there
has never been any case of this causing cancer spread. In fact, it is
almost unheard of for prostate cancer to ever spread into the adjacent
rectum, even in the most aggressive cases. Now, it is possible to leave
cancer cells behind in the peri-prostate fat.. especially if the cancer
has
already penetrated the capsule and extends into the fat. These are more
likely to be Gleason 7+ cancers. This is why I'm reluctant or cautious
to
do an aggressive nerve-sparing in these cases. I'd prefer to go wider,
so
even if the cancer has penetrated and is in the fat next to the
prostate, I
am more likely to get around it and take it all out with the prostate.
Many
open surgeons criticize the da Vinci robotic laparoscopic Prostatectomy
(dVP) because of an inability to "feel" the surface of the prostate for
cancer.
This is pretty bogus. I've done plenty of open radical prostatectomies.
In
most cases, especially with the predominance of cT1c cancer, no cancer
is palpable. Keep in mind there is usually lumps of BPH (aka. adenoma)
that are not cancer, but make the prostate feel bumpy. The cancer is
usually small and multi-focal. Conversely, during daVinci robotic lap
Prostatectomy (dVP) the bloodless surgical field, and enhanced,
magnified,
3-D vision puts my eye right down on top of the prostate so I can see
the
glistening prostate capsule and get those vital nerves and blood
vessels
atraumatically off the prostate. In open surgery, the surgeon is
standing,
with the prostate at arms length away, down in a deep hole, usually
with
bleeding.

Re: prostate removal during da Vinci robotic laparoscopic
Prostatectomy,
the umbilical poke hole is widened a bit to allow intact removal of the
prostate in a special bag. There is some FLV video of this on my
website:

  http://www.dryew.com/pages/resources.htm

The clip is about midway down the page, the 8th video clip under
"Media Library".

These are actual surgical videos and pictures, so please do not view if
you
think the graphic nature will upset you.

===
http://www.DrYew.com
http://www.SanDiegoRoboticProstatectomy.com
*IMPORTANT* Any comments by me are for general informational purposes
only, and should never be used to diagnose or recommend  treatments for
any condition without face-to-face consultation with a qualified
health-care provider. Thank you.
===
Bob Anthony - 25 Aug 2006 17:55 GMT
Dr.Yew:

A quick question. What would cause some pain in the perineal area during
orgasm? I had the robotic surgery 12/04 and I now am 55 years old and in
very good shape physically. This was always a concern. Although it seems
to be getting less intense over time, I still do feel it. My surgeon
said that he thinks that it is possibly some kind muscle spasm. Thanks!

B.A.
DrYew.com - 26 Aug 2006 04:38 GMT
That's odd so far out after surgery. Since it occurs during orgasm, it
does sort of sound like pelvic floor spasm or cramping. Might be
helped with a mild muscle relaxant. Not sure.. I haven't seen that yet.
===
http://www.DrYew.com
http://www.SanDiegoRoboticProstatectomy.com
*IMPORTANT* Any comments by me are for general informational purposes
only, and should never be used to diagnose or recommend  treatments for
any condition without face-to-face consultation with a qualified
health-care provider. Thank you.
===

> Dr.Yew:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> B.A.
Bob Anthony - 26 Aug 2006 16:43 GMT
Dr. Yew wrote:
> That's odd so far out after surgery. Since it occurs during orgasm, it
> does sort of sound like pelvic floor spasm or cramping. Might be
> helped with a mild muscle relaxant. Not sure.. I haven't seen that yet.

Thanks for your response.
If you ever hear of anything in your travels to and from the OR, please
post. Seems most docs do not have a definitive answer. This SE can be
"annoying" to say the least along with having to deal with the regular
non physically painful SEs too. (I sometimes always feel a dull ache in
that area which can intensify after sex). Now I'll have to wait for a
SMR like Robaxin as well as the Levitra to kick in?

B.A.
MH - 26 Aug 2006 22:40 GMT
I understand that this drug was once in clinical trials in the US... or was
going through stages for FDA approval .... but was then removed and is no
longer being studied for E.D. in the US.  It is available in Europe... and I
travel there every summer.  Just wondering if you know anything about
Uprima.... how it was supposed to work... and why it was discontinued in
studies by the FDA??  I understood that it worked in a completely different
way than Viagra, Levitra or Cialis.

I had LRP 11/21/02.... have still not regained erectile functioning other
than with injections.  With Cialis or Levitra, I may get some tumescence,
but nothing that allows penetration.  Have sometimes thought of trying the
Uprima while in France during the summer... but wondering what kind of
dangers may have been associated with it.

Thanks!

MikeH :)
NICK - 26 Aug 2006 23:25 GMT
> I understand that this drug was once in clinical trials in the US... or was
> going through stages for FDA approval .... but was then removed and
> is no longer being studied for E.D. in the US.

http://www.fda.gov/cder/warn/apr2000/dd041200.pdf

Manufacturer got into hot water promoting it for ED
while it was still in clinical trials.

Another source is http://rxlist.com
MH - 27 Aug 2006 03:55 GMT
Thanks for the links, Nick....

I'm wondering if anyone here from another country where Uprima *IS*
available has ever tried it for ED..... and if so, what were the results!?

MikeH

>> I understand that this drug was once in clinical trials in the US... or
>> was
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Another source is http://rxlist.com
DrYew.com - 26 Aug 2006 23:42 GMT
Yeah.. I think Uprima was supposed to come out, by Lilly?
It's a central acting agent (brain), and I think it is somehow
a dopamine agonist. Not quite sure what happened.
===
http://www.DrYew.com
http://www.SanDiegoRoboticProstatectomy.com
*IMPORTANT* Any comments by me are for general informational purposes
only, and should never be used to diagnose or recommend  treatments for
any condition without face-to-face consultation with a qualified
health-care provider. Thank you.
===

> I understand that this drug was once in clinical trials in the US... or was
> going through stages for FDA approval .... but was then removed and is no
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> MikeH :)
MH - 27 Aug 2006 03:57 GMT
> Yeah.. I think Uprima was supposed to come out, by Lilly?
> It's a central acting agent (brain), and I think it is somehow
> a dopamine agonist. Not quite sure what happened.

Thanks, Dr. Yew.... I know Uprima is available in some countries.  Perhaps
someone who reads this list is from a country where it is available and
could share experiences??

MikeH
gary.miller12@comcast.net - 27 Aug 2006 00:41 GMT
mike
where/who  did your the surgery?
gary
> I understand that this drug was once in clinical trials in the US... or was
> going through stages for FDA approval .... but was then removed and is no
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> MikeH :)
MH - 27 Aug 2006 03:44 GMT
> mike
> where/who  did your the surgery?
> gary

Hi, Gary...
My LRP was done 11/21/02 in Atlanta by Dr. Scott Miller.
MikeH

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