 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / August 2006Prostate Cancer prevention
Hello, I'm curious as to what can be done that can help decrease the odds of getting PCa. What type of foods etc can help? I believe Dr Catalona listed lycopene capsules but what else? Is actually scarfing down tomato paste a couple times a week a viable option as PCa *does* run in my family! What about red wine? Should I consider that? Are there any proper studies on this subject? We've had several discussions about foods and supplements and for the most part I think most of us have concluded that they fall under "might help - won't hurt" . Any antioxidant should be part of the diet, and let's face it junk food is junk food and no one needs it. So think about eating good healthy foods. I think you will find more antioxidant qualities in a glass of red grape juice than what you will find in wine but the sugar levels are quite high in grape juice and wine is more fun. LOL As for following certain diets? Well, our Mediterranean diet guy on the group has PC, so does the vegetarian, the no carb guy has it, and the meat and potato guy I'm married to has it. I think the only thing that would protect you from the odds of PC is being a female and since that isn't going to happen, because no matter what you can't change your DNA, the best you can hope for is to be lucky. You're probably doing what you should be doing. Eating healthy foods, getting some exercise, getting a good night's sleep, and keeping your body as healthy as possible is your best defense. Have your PSA routinely checked and spend some time looking at treatment options in case you ever do have to face the beast. If you do ever face it then you will probably have caught it early, you will respond quickly with a treatment and get on with your life. There are no magic bullets. Bev > Hello, > I'm curious as to what can be done that can help decrease the odds of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > my family! What about red wine? Should I consider that? Are there any > proper studies on this subject? > We've had several discussions about foods and supplements and for the most > part I think most of us have concluded that they fall under "might help - > won't hurt" ... There is a lack of solid scientific evidence proving the value of the different prostate cancer diets. So what Bev says here is probably the most we can say for sure. As I understand it, all of the evidence we have is of one of the following types: Test tube ("in vitro") studies. Mouse studies. Human studies, but with insufficient numbers, insufficient controls, or inadequate study designs. You might think that mouse studies can be conclusive, but it isn't so. According to a standard textbook of cell biology that I've been reading, the _great majority_ of cancer treatments that work in mice don't work in humans. Having said all that, I'll admit that I drink tomato juice every day and take small amounts of vitamins and supplements. If you want to pursue this further, I recommend going to the Prostate Cancer Research Institute website search page at: http://www.prostate-cancer.org/search.html If you enter the term "diet" you'll get many different doctors' and other people's recommendations for diet and supplements. Alan > There is a lack of solid scientific evidence proving the value of the > different prostate cancer diets. With respect, that is not exactly true. Los Angeles attorney Thomas Mueller was diagnosed five years ago with PCa at 45, just after getting married. He rejected conventional medical treatments in favor of an extreme diet -- essentially home-prepared macrobiotic food. Over the following years biopsies and color doppler ultrasounds showed a diminution of his cancer, and PSA has remained low and stable. I've talked with him at length; he's a nice guy, and admits it is a very regimented way to live and eat. Still, he and his doctors believe his diet has enabled him to hold his PCa in check. More detailed info is online at: http://www.prostate-cancer.org/education/nutrprod/ScholzBlum_Nutrition_Prostate_ Cancer.html or http://tinyurl.com/hmtyh It's certain fair to say there is not a large body of scientific evidence about the impact of diet, simply because very few of us would, during the course of a study, successfully adhere to the extreme diet Tom has followed. But unless you assume that his doctors are lying (they are also my doctors, and I doubt that) or that his prostate cancer has coincidentally and spontaneously regressed, his example is evidence that diet (and exercise) can fairly dramatically impact PCa. Alex Diet definitely plays a role. Maybe not a "curative" role as you suggest, but there is a considerable amount of research that suggests that certain nutrients have activity against prostate cancer. These include: Vitamin E 100IU Vitamin D 1600IU Selenium 200 mcg Lycopene 30mg Soy Isoflavones 50mg There is a company that provides "pharmaceutical grade" supplements, founded by physicians (not me) that provides links to many research articles on the role of nutrients in urologic conditions, including prostate cancer: http://www.theralogix.com Also, a PDF handout on nutrition and prostate cancer is here: http://www.theralogix.com/images/provider_support/Nutrition%20Prostate%20Cancer.pdf The obvious benefit here is the lack of any side-effects. Unlike Mr. Meyer & Mueller's docs, I personally do not believe these can be curative. However, I am a firm believer in using these supplements in select patients: older or ill patients with low-risk prostate cancer who are essentially "observing" their cancer, but would like to do anything non-invasive they can to treat their cancer, patients who I do a da Vinci robotic laparoscopic Prostatectomy (dVP) on who have high-risk features (gleason 7+). I do direct these patients to the Theralogix website so they can collect information. I think the website is pretty open about their content formulations. They can order it on the website, or just jot down the ingredients and then go price shopping on their own. I think there's a lot of good information there, so check it out. Just so you know, I do NOT have any financial affiliation with that company (or any other company). If you want to order from the website or by phone, you can use code 40889 to get a small discount. === http://www.DrYew.com http://www.SanDiegoRoboticProstatectomy.com > > There is a lack of solid scientific evidence proving the value of the > > different prostate cancer diets. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Alex Oh yeah.. I forgot to mention 2 other important groups that I suggest nutritionals to: (1) patients with PIN on biopsy (high grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia), a pre-cancerous appearance to the cells. (2) patients with family history of prostate cancer but otherwise normal PSA, DRE, etc.. > Diet definitely plays a role. Maybe not a "curative" role as you > suggest, but there is a [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > > > Alex The "a healthy heart diet is a healthy prostate diet" is a bit confusing. Just before my robotic procedure I had to be medically cleared. There was some artifact on my stress test so I went for an angiogram which turned out to be a false positive. The Chief of Cardiology at Cleveland Clinic did the procedure and was amazed that not only did he not find anything wrong with my heart, but that he saw no plaque anywhere. All I remember him saying as I came off of the happy juice was that "what ever you're doing, keep doing it!" He came over to me not once, but twice. I was 53 at the time. (My surgery was 12/04). I always exercised, (both weight baring and aerobic) keep my weight at ideal levels, ate pretty well, took supplements, drank red wine with dinner, ate cooked tomatoes, (marinara sauce just happens to be one of my favorites and I make it myself) and took pretty good care of myself in general. For all intents and purposes, I should not have gotten PCa. I should have been very low risk to develop PCa. But I did anyway. Since, I've heard,(and read) from others here on this ng and elsewhere that had practiced very healthy diets and consumed very little or no hydrogenated fats, saturated fats, or trans fats. Guess what...they got PCa. The Asian diet probably is healthier that the western diet in general because of the lack of these fats consumed by comparison. But, there is a higher incidence of other cancers, such as stomach cancer for instance. Go figure. I think the medical community needs to not only map the human genome, but to read and use that map in order to realize undisputed disease prevention and cures. B.A. > Diet definitely plays a role. Maybe not a "curative" role as you > suggest, but there is a > considerable amount of research that suggests that certain nutrients > have activity > against prostate cancer. WebMD at http://health.webmd.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/eozT0LNg230CBe0omh0E3 says otherwise: July 18, 2006 -- Cancer patients spend billions a year on vitamins and dietary supplements, but there is no proof that these products -- or other nutrition strategies -- are effective for treating or preventing the disease, a new analysis shows. I.P. > July 18, 2006 -- Cancer patients spend billions a year on vitamins and > dietary supplements, but there is no proof that these products -- or > other nutrition strategies -- are effective for treating or preventing > the disease, a new analysis shows. Well, that's true. And also, there is no proof that God exists, but I talk to him every day. Since my first PSA test, I have added nunerous supplements and diet changes. I think that must have something to do with my PSA drop. Granted, I had a DRE and sexual activity prior to my first PSA, but everyone says that should only cause a point or two change. Mine dropped from 20.3 to 13.8. That's not proof, but I'll keep taking the supplements. In a few weeks, before I have any treatment, I'll check it again and I bet it will drop some more. John Believe me, I come from somewhat traditional cancer surgery training where "a chance to cut is a chance to cure". But, I recognize that there is evidence that certain nutritional supplements appear to have an impact on PSA, and theoretically therefore, possibly prostate cancer progression. I agree this is not a direct impact, and probably only a marginally indirect impact at best on prostate cancer outcomes. Also, I agree that there is no evidence to date of any kind of survival benefit. So why advocate it? Because there are NO side-effects! I wish I could say the same about my surgery, or radiation, or lupron. If I have a patient I do a daVinci robotic laparoscopic Prostatectomy (dVP) on and he has gleason 7, margin neg path... I consider him cured. They almost always have PSA less than 0.1 at 1 month. But, I still take a few minutes to tell them that they might consider taking certain supplements. Likewise, for the patient who wants to feel like they are being pro-active in the management of their disease, but are not candidates for more traditional therapies. (Eg, the vibrant 90yo man with a PSA of 30 and a firm prostate) I won't biopsy him, but I would suggest supplements. === http://www.DrYew.com http://www.SanDiegoRoboticProstatectomy.com *IMPORTANT* Any comments by me are for general informational purposes only, and should never be used to diagnose or recommend treatments for any condition without face-to-face consultation with a qualified health-care provider. Thank you. === > > Diet definitely plays a role. Maybe not a "curative" role as you > > suggest, but there is a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I.P. There was a recent review of published studies of the role of supplements in fighting cancer. It was published in the July 19, 2006 issue of the _Journal of the National Cancer Institute_, by Anna A. Davies, et. al. Here are the conclusions from the abstract: Conclusions: The impact of most nutritional interventions cannot be reliably estimated because of the limited number of trials, many of which were of low quality. There is no evidence that dietary modifi cation by cancer patients improves survival and benefi ts disease prognosis. [J Natl Cancer Inst 2006;98: 961 - 73] It was discussed on this newsgroup. Search Google groups for the title: "No indication nutrition helps fight cancer" (with quote marks) to find it. The thread was begun on July 19, 2006 by I.P. Freely. I'm not competent to evaluate the article, but the reviewers of the Journal of the NCI probably are and they thought enough of it to publish it. The article doesn't imply that nutritional interventions do no good, only that the level of evidence for them is not yet raised to a high enough level to come to the scientific conclusion that they definitely do do good. We all know individual cases, a few have been posted on this newsgroup and the one you cite Alex is another, where diet and/or supplements _seem_ to have had a positive impact. And as I said before, I take supplements myself. But the scientific data behind this doesn't yet appear conclusive - or at least that's what the JNCI says. Alan >> There is a lack of solid scientific evidence proving the value of the >> different prostate cancer diets. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > spontaneously regressed, his example is evidence that diet (and exercise) > can fairly dramatically impact PCa. Once again, "anecdotal evidence" is an oxymoron. If we considered anecdotes to be "evidence", we could "prove" ANYTHING. Just because a WWII tailgunner fell out of his bomber at 10,000 feet with no parachute and walked away doesn't "prove" skydivers don't need parachutes; it just proves that ONE GUY happened to land in the upper branches of giant snow-packed fir trees which cushioned his fall. And many cases of "terminal cancer" of various types have just vanished. Mueller could have had spontaneous remission, his immune system may have rallied, his cancer could have just up and run off when it learned its host was a freaking LAWYER, his diet and exercise may have helped, or maybe Bill Clinton felt his pain and absorbed its negative vibes. But it proves nothing except that "a macrobiotic diet is not immediately fatal to all adherents". I.P. >> Los Angeles attorney Thomas Mueller was diagnosed five years ago with PCa >> at 45, just after getting married. He rejected conventional medical [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> it is a very regimented way to live and eat. Still, he and his doctors >> believe his diet has enabled him to hold his PCa in check. > Once again, "anecdotal evidence" is an oxymoron. If we considered > anecdotes to be "evidence", we could "prove" ANYTHING. Just because a WWII > tailgunner fell out of his bomber at 10,000 feet with no parachute and > walked away doesn't "prove" skydivers don't need parachutes; it just > proves that ONE GUY happened to land in the upper branches of giant > snow-packed fir trees which cushioned his fall. If true, it proves that it is possible to survive a 10,000 free fall. Just as Mueller's story is true, it proves that it is possible to survive cancer without surgery, radiation or HT. Though, I admit, I suspect both stories. >>> Los Angeles attorney Thomas Mueller was diagnosed five years ago with PCa >>> at 45, just after getting married. He rejected conventional medical [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Though, I admit, I suspect both stories. 1. Flight Sergeant Nicholas Alkemade jumped from his Lancaster at 18,000 feet [OK, my 10,000 feet was in error; I read the story over 40 years ago) to escape the holocaust of his blazing bomber, leaving behind his useless parachute that had been torn to shreds by shrapnel. His headlong fall was broken by a fir tree and he finally landed in an eighteen inch snow-drift, without a single fracture. Naturally, the Luftwaffe authorities were highly suspicious of his story of falling from such a height without a parachute, but on investigation they found his shredded and unused ‘chute in the crashed remains of the aircraft. Tail gunners had to stash their 'chutes inside the fuselage, and when Alkemade opened the rear hatch of his turret, he found flames raging inside the plane and his only means of escape a blazing mass of silk. Faced with the choice of falling to his death or burning to a crisp, he rotated the turret and did a back somersault into space, 18,000 feet above Germany. Falling at speeds of up to 120mph, it would have taken him about two minutes to hit the ground. He was fantastically lucky. First, he blacked out during the fall, ensuring his body would not be dangerously rigid and tense on impact. Second, he fell into a dense pine forest, whose branches broke his fall, and then into a deep snowdrift. He survived with nothing worse than a somewhat twisted ankle. Alkemade's case is particularly well-researched because the Germans who found him discovered that his parachute harness had not been used and suspected him of being a spy. A Luftwaffe probe, involving an investigation of the crashed bomber, proved the airman's story, and Alkemade was shipped off into captivity. He survived the war and eventually passed away on 22 June 1987. 2. We already knew some people survive cancer, that it sometimes disappears, but that is not evidence that Mueller's macrobiotic diet affected his cancer. I.P. >>> There is a lack of solid scientific evidence proving the value of the >>> different prostate cancer diets. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > I.P. I stand corrected. I.P. is correct that one instance is not "evidence." On the other hand, there are many studies indicating that diet appears to be linked to the incidence of prostate cancer in a given population, such as the differences in PCa rates of Japanese men who follow traditional diets in Japan versus Japanese men who emigrate to Hawaii or the United States and switch to a Western diet. That by no means supports the notion that diet will have an impact AFTER prostate cancer is diagnosed. But it does suggest some linkage between diet and the body's tendancy to fight the cancer. On the other hand, if becoming a lawyer would inevitably produce a spontaneous remission -- well, that's a pretty high price to pay just to overcome cancer! (g) Alex Alex wrote...snip... > I stand corrected. I.P. is correct that one instance is not "evidence." On > the other hand, there are many studies indicating that diet appears to be [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > prostate cancer is diagnosed. But it does suggest some linkage between diet > and the body's tendancy to fight the cancer. Hi Alex...I tend to believe that diet does have a beneficial effect on PCa. No particular reason, just what I choose to believe until more information comes along. Like Bev said, file it under can't hurt, might help. But rather than saying that the PCa data on Japanese natives and emigres "suggests some linlage", I might say that it is consistent with some linkage. Other factors creep into this example and make analysis less straightforward than it might at first appear. For example, Do emigres tend to live longer than natives? Do emigres have better access to health care and screening? In Japan, anything related to urologic disorders is difficult to speak about. Does ths mean that PCa is under-reported on death certificates? All of these variables could cause emigre PCa rates to be higher than native rates. And this is a short list, other variables exist as well. Diet is associated with cardiovascular disease. If a healthy diet reduces cardiovascular deaths, then wouldn't it be (sadly) ironic if some of these men who would have died from a heart attack now live longer and die from PCa, driving the rate up. Let's hope not...Best wishes and good health, ron > Alex wrote...snip... >> I stand corrected. I.P. is correct that one instance is not "evidence." [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > longer and die from PCa, driving the rate up. Let's hope not...Best > wishes and good health, ron Ron, the points you raise are interesting but speculative, and certainly are ones that a researcher would anticipate and, if present, correct for. These studies include men in Japan, Italy, Greece, which have radically different cultural mores. And I am not sure American men are dramatically more comfortable than their counterparts in other countries about discussing their urological situation. From Prostate-Cancer.com: "Traditional Diet and Prostate Cancer -- Men from Italy and Greece who consume a traditional Mediterranean diet of fresh fruits and vegetables, fish, and olive oil have a lower incidence of the disease. Men from Japan who consume a traditional rural diet of fish, rice, and green tea also have a very low incidence of prostate cancer. Both of these diets are examples of also preventative dietary habits. "If men from any of these groups move to the United States, within two generations, their chances, probably due to dietary changes, increase to that of a typical Caucasian man. Researchers are also finding that as Japan becomes more Westernized, and its citizens consume larger amounts of Western food, the disease rate tends to increase." Alex > I'm curious as to what can be done that can help decrease the odds of > getting PCa. What type of foods etc can help? http://tinyurl.com/h4b9a Dietary changes and stress management MAY attenuate PCa Saxe GA; Major JM; Nguyen JY; Freeman KM; Downs TM; Salem CE Department of Family & Preventive Medicine Moores UCSD Cancer Center I don't know where you're located, but............ Gordon Saxe, M.D., Ph.D. UCSD, is the speaker at the Prostate Cancer Research & Education Foundation Saturday, September 9 10:00 Alvarado Hospital 6655 Alvarado Road, San Diego, CA Topic: The Macrobiotic Diet in Prostate Cancer (aka: plant-based diet) Thanks.. I know these guys. They're just down the street! I agree completely. If a patient has PSA recurrence that is slowly creeping or low-stable after either surgery or radiation, and they are otherwise completely asymptomatic, I think nutritional therapy is a reasonable approach with no side-effects. === http://www.DrYew.com http://www.SanDiegoRoboticProstatectomy.com > > I'm curious as to what can be done that can help decrease the odds of > > getting PCa. What type of foods etc can help? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Topic: The Macrobiotic Diet in Prostate Cancer > (aka: plant-based diet)
|
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.