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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / August 2006

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i wonder how soon they will be able to do this with pca?

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c palmer - 19 Aug 2006 07:12 GMT
since breast cancer is the female side of prostate cancer.   if they
have achieved gene expression information contained in a core needle
biopsy may be even more accurate than the information found in a
surgical sample that's taken from,  

because expression of these four genes does not change the tumor's
aggressiveness, their activity could influence risk assessment and
treatment decisions

wouldn't this give a person great insight on the type of treatment for
pca options they would have?  

~ curtis

=======================

Breast tumor samples collected by a procedure called core needle biopsy
provide an accurate snapshot of gene expression for the entire tumor,
researchers say.

The finding confirms the reliability of core needle biopsy as a method
of breast cancer diagnosis and prognosis, the Swiss team reported in the
journal Breast Cancer Research.

In this study, researchers at the Women's University in Basel analyzed
core needle biopsy samples collected from 22 breast cancer patients and
compared those samples to surgical samples taken from the same women.

In most of the women, the core biopsy and surgical sample revealed
identical levels of expression of 60 genes known to be involved in
breast tumor development.

The study also found that the gene expression information contained in a
core needle biopsy may be even more accurate than the information found
in a surgical sample that's taken from the same tumor after a core
needle biopsy.

According to the study, the biopsy appears to trigger the expression of
four genes involved in inflammation and wound healing, as well as tumor
invasion and metastasis. This results in a different gene expression
profile in surgical samples taken after the core needle biopsy.

Doctors must take care when interpreting the gene expression profile of
surgical samples taken after a core biopsy, the researchers said. While
the expression of these four genes does not change the tumor's
aggressiveness, their activity could influence risk assessment and
treatment decisions.

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Alan Meyer - 20 Aug 2006 19:50 GMT
> since breast cancer is the female side of prostate cancer.   if they
> have achieved gene expression information contained in a core needle
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> wouldn't this give a person great insight on the type of treatment for
> pca options they would have?
...

I've been reading up on the molecular biology of cancer.  My
inexpert speculation on the answer to your question is:

Someday: Yes.

Now: Probably not.

Cancer is a disease caused by damage to DNA.  The damage
interferes with proper cell function - allowing the cell to reproduce
when it should not, stay alive when it should not, and live in other
parts of the body where it should not.  However the specific
damage can vary from person to person.  In the book I'm
reading, published in 2002, they report that science had already
found about 100 "cancer critical" genes in which damage could
lead to cancer, and they thought there might be hundreds more.

Different patients have different sets of damaged genes and
different types of damage to those genes.  That's one reason
why some of us have different Gleason scores and have more
or less aggressive cancers as compared to others of us.

Knowing which genes are damaged could, in theory, lead to
specific treatments for that particular type of damage.  But
right now, as I understand it, the development of such
treatments is in its infancy.  I'm not aware of any genetic
oriented treatments being available yet.

   Alan
Steve Kramer - 20 Aug 2006 20:24 GMT
> Knowing which genes are damaged could, in theory, lead to
> specific treatments for that particular type of damage.  But
> right now, as I understand it, the development of such
> treatments is in its infancy.  I'm not aware of any genetic
> oriented treatments being available yet.

I believe  you are correct at every point.  Last I heard, the identified the
culprit strands (one passed on by mom and the other by dad).  And those were
found well ahead of schedule.  But, they are very much in their infancy at
finding a remedial solution.  As I understand it, their studies are limited
to getting familial gene samples for comparisons, traces and analysis.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06, 6/06
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
Casodex added daily 07/06
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

Alan Meyer - 21 Aug 2006 01:29 GMT
>> Knowing which genes are damaged could, in theory, lead to
>> specific treatments for that particular type of damage.  But
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> strands (one passed on by mom and the other by dad).  And those were found well ahead of
> schedule.  But, they are very much in their infancy at finding a remedial solution.

I should amend what I said before.  There are some treatments
based on understanding of genetic damage for some types
of cancer.  I haven't heard of any that are yet approved for
prostate cancer.  But I think it's likely that, over the next 10-20
years, there will be some.

> ...  As I understand it, their studies are limited to getting familial gene samples for
> comparisons, traces and analysis.

They've gone beyond that now.

Genes are sequences of DNA that encode instructions for
assembling proteins.  The process is very like program code for a
computer.  Each group of three nucleotide pairs in a DNA strand
codes for a specific amino acid, and a string of these triplets
codes for a string of amino acids - which are what constitutes a
protein.  It's more complicated than that, but that's the general
idea.

The proteins that are produced from gene "transcription" do
things in the cell.  Some of them are needed in cell division and
replication.  Some are needed for the cell to attach to the place
where it should reside.  Some receive chemical signals from
outside the cell and translate those signals into actions inside
the cell.  Some control cell death - helping to kill the cell if
it becomes abnormal, or preventing the cell from killing itself.

Cancer cells have damaged DNA.  The DNA might have been damaged
by carcinogenic agents in food, air, water, etc.  Or by
radiation, or by natural processes that produce a certain
percentage of errors every time a cell divides - processes that
become more and more error prone as we get older.  Damage in some
areas of our DNA often causes errors that, in turn, lead to
further damage, which leads to more, etc.

It is now possible to take cancerous cells from a patient and
analyze them to find out what proteins are in the cells.  They
can then do the same with healthy cells and compare the results.
If they find too much or too little of a particular protein,
compared to the healthy cells, they can infer genetic damage in
the genes that produce those proteins, or in other genes that
regulate the production process.

In cancer cells, they will find too much of one or another
protein that promotes cell division and growth, or that blocks
cell death, or too little of one or another protein that blocks
cell division and growth, or promotes cell death in abnormal
circumstances.

The researchers are trying to use this information to develop
chemical attacks on the cancer.  For example, if there is too
much of some unusual protein, maybe they can use that as a marker
for the delivery of cell killing drugs.  If there's too little of
something, maybe they can inject it into the patient, or get it
to the cells by piggybacking on some other process.

It's all terrifically hard to do.  The complexity is enormous.
But, as one scientist put it, the difficulties and complexities
are very great, but not infinite.  The problems will be solved
eventually if we just keep working on them.

   Alan

   Alan
 
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