slightly OT - newsgroups?

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peter*pan - 13 Aug 2006 05:07 GMT

Why do you all who use newsgroups, use newsgroups? I just use a browser to
access forums such as this on. By newsgroups I assume you are talking
about posts to a forum being routed directly to your mail server(?). And
that you of course reply from your mail client. I hadn't thought about it
much until the "crossposting" thread.

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NICK - 13 Aug 2006 08:37 GMT

> Why do you all who use newsgroups, use newsgroups?

You may receive as many answers as there are types of newsgroups -
pets, medical, business, professional, sex, music, soaps, dramas, Star
Wars, Star Trek, politics, cars, racing, football, baseball,
basketball, tennis, surfing, Olympics, stamp/coin collecting,
opererating systems, programming, hardware, software, peripherals,
viruses/trojans, security, fishing/hunting, flying/gliding/parachuting,
babies, dating, marriage planning.

I have been retired on disability since the late 1980's (dx'd 1976 -
other than cancer).

I like to remain up-to-date with what's going on in my profession,
attend meetings and conferences with former co-workers and attend
their funerals (which are becoming more and more frequent); attend
dedication ceremonies of new facilities.

I desire to remain up-to-date on developments in the two diseases I
have.

I have developed and maintained a strong relationship with the members
of one particular group. They hold "gimp fests" across the country so
we can meet, chat, put a face to a name. My wife and I attended one in
Portland, OR in June 2005. We have met members on a one-to-one basis
in Reno, Anaheim, Yuba City, Manteca and other towns and cities.
I went into the first newsgroup, ca. 1994, seeking answers to
questions (I had a bitch of a doctor who tried to treat patients like
mushrooms - and you know how they grow). I've since had to stop
driving, had a THR (2000), and nowaday can welcome newbies and answer
their questions. It's not all medical; there's quite a bit of humor,
success stories, growing families, members becoming grandparents,
congratulations, etc. etc. etc. My wife and I hope to meet a few more
in the SF Bay Area in October while we're attending a meeing in San
Jose.

Now I'll ask you, "Why do you use newsgroups?"

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J - 13 Aug 2006 10:47 GMT

> Why do you all who use newsgroups, use newsgroups? I just use a browser to
> access forums such as this on. By newsgroups I assume you are talking
> about posts to a forum being routed directly to your mail server(?). And
> that you of course reply from your mail client. I hadn't thought about it
> much until the "crossposting" thread.

It's the reverse.
You're reading and posting to a newsgroup from a forum.
And yes, many, not all, use an email program which also doubles as a
news(group) reader.
Many ISP's, not all, (who you pay to connect to the internet) have both mail
and "news" servers.
J

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Steve Kramer - 13 Aug 2006 12:30 GMT

> Why do you all who use newsgroups, use newsgroups? I just use a browser
> to
> access forums such as this on. By newsgroups I assume you are talking
> about posts to a forum being routed directly to your mail server(?). And
> that you of course reply from your mail client. I hadn't thought about it
> much until the "crossposting" thread.

If you are talking about using Google, or the like, to get to this
newsgroup, the reason I use Outlook and my ISPs news server is that I here
from some that using Google, et al., is a pain in the buttocks.

I like Outlook a lot and it use it at home and at work. There is almost no
difference between using it for email or newsgroups.

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Buttercup's Dad - 14 Aug 2006 20:26 GMT

For some reason I could never figure out my Road Runner news server was
the main problem. For months at a time it would not work, although the
mail server was working fine. Upon occasion it would work. Go figure.
That is when Mike, and some others, told me to try Google Groups
because it was readily available. There are some quirks with it, e.g.,
I often cannot get back to the ng I was in after reading a post or
responding to one. I get a message that the connection had expired?
If I click on one of the other newsgroups that I have suscribed to, and
then select this one again, that is what I have to do to navigate. Not
really a big deal, but it is a pain for sure.

> If you are talking about using Google, or the like, to get to this
> newsgroup, the reason I use Outlook and my ISPs news server is that I here
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Casodex added daily 07/06
> Non Illegitimi Carborundum

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peter*pan - 13 Aug 2006 14:31 GMT

Thanks for your replies - but I guess I wasn't totally clear. I understand
what a newsgroup is, and I use this one for the same reason as the rest of
you.

My question was why use a mail client vs a browser? I'm not sure what is
meant by using Google since Google isn't a browser. When accessing thru a
browser (IE, Firefox, etc), this newsgroup is a forum application, and is
very user friendly.

Thanks, Tom

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Steve Kramer - 13 Aug 2006 16:28 GMT

> Thanks for your replies - but I guess I wasn't totally clear. I
> understand
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> browser (IE, Firefox, etc), this newsgroup is a forum application, and is
> very user friendly.

I understood the question and thought I answered it. To expound, Google is
kind of a browser. It's also a search engine. It's also an advertising
medium. From Google, you can go to "Groups" and end up in newsgroups;
probably like Firefox. I have never seen Firefox, so I really have no idea.

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rosbif - 13 Aug 2006 17:08 GMT

>> My question was why use a mail client vs a browser? I'm not sure what is
>> meant by using Google since Google isn't a browser. When accessing thru a
>> browser (IE, Firefox, etc), this newsgroup is a forum application, and is
>> very user friendly.

Broadly you've 3 options (as I see it). As you say, there are google
groups (GG) which will give you a www door into usenet and which is
completely independent of the scope of your ISP (which might have poor
newsgroup (usenet) coverage). The overriding advantage of
google-groups is that all posts in the main discussion groups have
been archived since their inception. In fact, if you want to read
posts from the distant past GG is your only option.

Or you can use an email client like outlook express which can be
configured to scan usenet, then enable you to read and post messages
via your own ISP.

You also have usenet clients like Agent which operate exactly as email
clients except that the software is designed to advantage newsgroup
access in terms of layout, readability and extensive facilities for
filtering posts and cross posting if you want (!).

Aside from the matter of user-friendliness, these last two options are
comparable - OE and Agent will both do email and newsgroups though OE
is primarily an email client, Agent a newsreader. Both are
significantly faster and neater in layout than GG. But what you gain
in convenience of access to usenet, you lose in terms of retention of
posts - depending on the trouble your ISP takes, you may only have
access to the last 3 or 4 months posts though clearly if you're
constantly involved in a particular ng, this wouldn't be a problem in
practise.

I'd recommend a dedicated newsreader if you want to read and post a
lot. You'll find it a lot easier in the long run.

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J - 13 Aug 2006 16:50 GMT

> >> My question was why use a mail client vs a browser? I'm not sure what is
> >> meant by using Google since Google isn't a browser. When accessing thru a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> is primarily an email client, Agent a newsreader. Both are
> significantly faster and neater in layout than GG.

Absolutely.
I still use an older version of Netscape (mail and news).

> But what you gain
> in convenience of access to usenet, you lose in terms of retention of
> posts - depending on the trouble your ISP takes, you may only have
> access to the last 3 or 4 months posts though clearly if you're
> constantly involved in a particular ng, this wouldn't be a problem in
> practise.

I can retain 2 year's worth of posts. On some busier newsgroups, I would not
want to and/or I would be limited by the ISP server by the number of posts.

> I'd recommend a dedicated newsreader if you want to read and post a
> lot.

Or if he wants to explore other hierarchies.

> You'll find it a lot easier in the long run.

yes, thanks.
J

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glassman - 14 Aug 2006 01:58 GMT

>> Thanks for your replies - but I guess I wasn't totally clear. I
>> understand
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> newsgroups; probably like Firefox. I have never seen Firefox, so I really
> have no idea.

Firefox is just like IE without all the ads and popups, and it is
customizable WITHOUT all the microsoft BS. Isn't that good reason to DL it
and give it a try?

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www.SinrodStudios.com
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

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J - 13 Aug 2006 16:29 GMT

> Thanks for your replies - but I guess I wasn't totally clear. I understand
> what a newsgroup is, and I use this one for the same reason as the rest of
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Thanks, Tom

Apparently there's well over 100,000 newsgroups. You only have access to some.
Looks like talkaboutsupport carrries mainly "support" newsgroups. Probably not
*sci newsgroups.
Probably not # de.* Discussions in German
# fr.* Discussions in French
# microsoft.* Discussions about Microsoft products
# gnu.* Discussions about GNU software
# england.* Discussions (mostly) local to England
# hawaii.* Discussions (mostly) local to Hawaii
# harvard.* Discussions (mostly) local to Harvard
# fidonet.* Discussions routed from FidoNe

With newsreaders we can access many, as many as our ISP's carry and if wanted,
we can ask our ISP to carry one (or more) that they don't carry.

I can sort (and read and post) the posts by date, by topic (alphabetically), by
poster name, by "unread", by thread and other criteria.

I can block (filter) threads and/or posters, that I do not wish to read. Some
newsreader software can filter crossposts or posters on header information.

In less than a second (usually) I can jump from one newsgroup to another. By
the looks of it, you have several steps to back out of one thread, out of the
newsgroup and then to click on a different newsgroup and find a thread.

We can view headers of other posters who use newsreader software. Headers shows
the ISP they're posting from, the newsgroups they're crossposting to, the path,
the message ID, their email address, if they show it.
My newsreader shows me "references" - numbers, I can click on that take me back
through the prior posts in the thread. Talkabout shows the threads in one way.

The way I see it there's more features and less restrictions using an ISP and
newsreader software.
J

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Elliott Reinhardt - 13 Aug 2006 19:33 GMT

> My question was why use a mail client vs a browser? I'm not sure what is
> meant by using Google since Google isn't a browser. When accessing thru a
> browser (IE, Firefox, etc), this newsgroup is a forum application, and is
> very user friendly.

In contrast to web browsers, most newreaders allow you to download
discussion threads for off-line reading and composing replies. Most
newsreaders enable you to filter downloads based on a wide level of
criteria including message size, author, subject, number of crossposts...
Most newsreaders allow you to archive individual posts for later retrieval,
well after the messages have been purged from the newserver. Overall
newsreaders are much more efficient at communicating across Usenet than a
browser.

You also mentioned "forums"... these are entirely distinct from Usenet and
for the most part require web-based site membership to post (unlike
Usenet), and a web browser interface to interact...

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Bob Anthony - 13 Aug 2006 18:21 GMT

I use Mozilla Thunderbird as both the email client and newsgroup reader.

B.A.

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