Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / August 2006
Ping: Alan Meyer
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J - 11 Aug 2006 10:31 GMT Why would you crosspost, when others here object to it?
Marcia Angell is a "hot button" topic - 8 years of reading a so-called advocate for vomen's issues venting about her, on other newsgroups. After years of totally offtopic and name calling, claims of being stalked, name calling crossposts (and lawsuits between posters), I went over to "her" newsgroup and begged her to stop crossposting to alt.support.cancer. For the most part, for the past 4 years, she's left alt.support.cancer alone and now you drag "Angell" back into alt.support.cancer... !!!
Why would you crosspost, thereby risking Alzheimer's posters? They don't know the "rules" of alt.support.cancer. They don''t know that I "pick off" (read: report to their ISP) any replier whose ISP's AUP respects a Charter. Surely you don't expect Alzheimer's posters/patients to read, remember the rules of the alt.support.cancer Charter?
alt.support.cancer has a Charter. If it's more about medicine, post to sci.med.diseases.cancer. Political calls to action are prohibited. - if they would be allowed, alt.support.cancer would become the target of every political agenda, in the world. (cross) Posting outside the cancer community is prohibited.
Some of the breast cancer patients don't like crossposts, so really I've been discouraging most crosspost/crossposters.
You don't know how many times, I could have crossposted to your newsgroup, but decided that it would not serve your readers well, since many of them don't know how to ( or are unable to filter using Google) filter posts or threads.
Someday it could be a friend or loved one (of yours - God Forbid) trying to wade through a cesspool of crossposts to try and get to information and support, on alt.support.cancer
Please have the same consideration for cancer patients on alt.support.cancer. Most of them know how little medicine plays a role in their types of cancer (and how expensive they are) and it's my task or Steph's to try and break the news gently to them or their loved ones.
Next time, if there is one, please crosspost to sci.med.diseases.cancer. The readers of alt.support.cancer are instructed to watch that newsgroup for topics of interest. Thank you. J
Alan Meyer - 11 Aug 2006 18:36 GMT Sorry J, I don't normally cross post. I did in this case because I follow all three of the newsgroups I posted to and thought it was relevant and important to all three. I wanted to post to each but, by cross posting rather than posting individually, I made it easier for anyone to see anyone else's reply. I did not post to any group, such as the breast cancer group, that I do not follow.
I follow the Alzheimer's group almost as much as this one. My Mom, Dad, and mother-in-law all suffered from dementia. As a caregiver for that older generation, I have seen the inflated, ridiculous claims made by drug companies selling Aricept and other drugs, and the extraordinary costs spent on drugs that did nothing. It makes me very angry.
I hadn't thought of myself as causing problems with this particular cross-post. But since you have called it to my attention, I will be more sensitive in the future and not do it again.
Please accept my apologies.
Alan
> Why would you crosspost, when others here object to it? > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > Thank you. > J J - 11 Aug 2006 21:24 GMT > Sorry J, I don't normally cross post. I did in this case because > I follow all three of the newsgroups I posted to and thought it [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Please accept my apologies. Thanks for your apology, Alan, but it's better to post each individually. As I said before, there are some posts that work well crossposted. For instance, one of your replies to Strauss, an altie. For example, Lori's threads about Curt, is another example of an aceeptable crosspost.
Each newsgroup has its "community standards" and as I mentioned, if it's more about medicine, crosspost to sci.med.diseases.cancer and for the other reasons mentioned. This newsgroup tends to have more Americans than any other country. alt.support.cancer has people from many countries. Each country has their issues and philosophies (and goverments to appeal to or inquire about the approval process) about medicines. The health care systems vary, with each country. The medicines vary with each medicine and each newsgroup.
So I am asking you, when replying to the thread, that you started, to trim out alt.support.cancer and please set Followups to this newsgroup or the alzheimer's newsgroup.
In addition, while I'm here. There's a troll poster who masquerades as 'J' on 4 cancer newsgroups and the alzheimer's newsgroup. You may (or may not) have him "blocked" with your newsreader. The others, on the alzheimer's don't know that it's not me. If he enters the thread, it'll cause all kinds of chaos on alt.support.cancer. Then I have to instruct people, on alt.support.cancer, to block/ignore his posts. Which then takes us way off-topic and is more work for me to explain to the readers of alt.support.cancer.
He can be recognized by his email address burglar_of_turds@yahoo.com see http://tinyurl.com/cdyv5 for his posting history.
I am pleased to read that you follow along, on alt.support.cancer and your other contributions have been most welcome, but you must follow the Charter (and/or how I've had to use it to keep peace on alt.support.cancer), just like everyone else. Thank you. J
Alan Meyer - 11 Aug 2006 22:59 GMT > ... > So I am asking you, when replying to the thread, that you started, to trim out > alt.support.cancer and please set Followups to this newsgroup or the alzheimer's > newsgroup. I will do that, and have just done it on the Alz group.
> In addition, while I'm here. There's a troll poster who masquerades as 'J' on 4 cancer > newsgroups and the alzheimer's newsgroup. > ... > He can be recognized by his email address burglar_of_turds@yahoo.com > see http://tinyurl.com/cdyv5 for his posting history. Ah yes, I've seen his ridiculous postings. He's a beauty alright.
Alan
42n8_1 - 12 Aug 2006 04:12 GMT for what it's worth ,I think your posts are among the most informative posts here no mater what the subject mater.so i hope this little tiff won't discourage your great posts. thanks
> Why would you crosspost, when others here object to it? > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > Thank you. > J Steve Kramer - 12 Aug 2006 11:35 GMT > for what it's worth ,I think your posts are among the most informative > posts here no mater what the subject mater.so i hope this little tiff > won't discourage your great posts. > thanks Hi, Harry!!! Haven't heard from you since right after your RRP. Coming up on a 1 year. That's a nice milestone to get behind you.
So, how's your PSA been? Still "0"?
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06, 6/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 Casodex added daily 07/06 Non Illegitimi Carborundum
42n8_1 - 12 Aug 2006 14:06 GMT yes still 0. so far things are looking pretty good. plumbing is working well. a hint of erections. it will be 1 year september 12th ,which is also my wedding anniversary. thanks for asking.
>> for what it's worth ,I think your posts are among the most informative >> posts here no mater what the subject mater.so i hope this little tiff [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > So, how's your PSA been? Still "0"? Alan Meyer - 12 Aug 2006 17:11 GMT > for what it's worth ,I think your posts are among the most informative posts here no > mater what the subject mater.so i hope this little tiff won't discourage your great > posts. > thanks Thank you for the kind words.
I had never made a cross post before and didn't really understand how much confusion and animosity it can create. But I know now, and will never do it again.
Alan
J - 12 Aug 2006 19:13 GMT > "42n8_1" <42n8-1@comcast.net> wrote in message > > for what it's worth ,I think your posts are among the most informative posts here no [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > understand how much confusion and animosity it can create. > But I know now, and will never do it again. And I want to make clear there's no tiff between alt.support.cancer and alt.support.cancer.prostate.(nor me and Alan, I hope) However, you can all see, in the other thread, how crossposting can cause troubles. Check the newsgroup, for what is or isn't an appropriate topic and/or "community standard" (standards in each newsgroup vary), before posting.
The problem with crossposting is we can all agree, at this moment, that it was a bad idea and decide to drop the thread and so state, but someone new, who does not read, down through all the replies, will jump right in and re-start the thread and then it goes on and on..unless somebody yells at somebody, which is unpleasant for everyone. As I said before, some crossposts are appropriate (and work), most are not. If in doubt. don't. Thank you. J
I.P. Freely - 12 Aug 2006 19:41 GMT > I had never made a cross post before and didn't really > understand how much confusion and animosity it can create. > But I know now, and will never do it again. I don't understand how or why crossposting is inherently bad. What if the topic is of valid interest to multiple forums?
I.P.
I.P. Freely - 12 Aug 2006 20:23 GMT > "J" <macyinno@nospam.inv> wrote >> Why would you crosspost, when others here object to it? . . .
>> They don't know the "rules" of alt.support.cancer. >> They don''t know that I "pick off" (read: report to their ISP) any replier >> whose ISP's AUP respects a Charter. . . .
>> Surely you don't expect Alzheimer's >> posters/patients to read, remember the rules of the alt.support.cancer >> Charter? >> >> alt.support.cancer has a Charter. . . .
>> Political calls to action are prohibited. . . .
>> (cross) Posting outside the cancer community is prohibited. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> don't know how to ( or are unable to filter using Google) filter posts or >> threads. This raises a whole slew of questions for me: 1. How do we know we're crossposting? I see no indication of a post's USENET origin on my screen (nor do I care where it came from, if the post is relevant to "my" forum.)
2. Why is crossposting inherently bad if the posts are mutually relevant?
3. "Rules"? "Charters"? On unmoderated USENET forums? What's that about? I've been on USENET for over a decade and that's news to me. I'd guess most other posters are also unfamiliar with that concept, just as some posters thought all forums were moderated until they were rudely awakened.
4. "Prohibited"? That's a pretty strong and strange term to appear in the free world, ESPECIALLY the internet. How's it implemented here?
5. What's an "AUP"?
6. And while this (I AM on a.s.c.p, aren't I?) is the most polite and sensitive forum I've ever seen, there are drawbacks to moderated forums, too, including the exclusion of anyone or any opinions the moderator disfavors for any reason. i.e., the moderator may as well just do all the posting himself, and some YAHOO group moderators operate in that manner.
I.P.
Steve Kramer - 12 Aug 2006 21:48 GMT > This raises a whole slew of questions for me: > 1. How do we know we're crossposting? When one crossposts and you REPLY TO GROUP, you will see in your "Newsgroups" box above all the newsgroups to which you are replying.
> I see no indication of a post's USENET origin on my screen (nor do I care > where it came from, if the post is relevant to "my" forum.) There is none that I know of. The only way I know is by looking at the "Newsgroups" box on the message and the reply. It's easy to miss. My first reply was inentionally sent to all three newsgroups.
> 2. Why is crossposting inherently bad if the posts are mutually relevant? It may not be inherently bad. It's just usually bad. If, for instance, there is a new cure for cancer in general that works on the most fundamental facets that are common to all cancers, it might not be a bad idea to broadcast it to all the cancer newsgroups.
But, when you do, you get all the replies made from all the newsgroups. We have a small, tight-knit group here and sometimes the replies are more than I can handle. Imagine multiplying them by a factor of three; and that's assuming the others are the same size as us.
Worse yet, imagine the nuts in other forums that are not as disciplined as those here (present company excepted, of course) :-) What happens then is you get the crazies that are still hooked on the "statistic" that we have a greater infant mortality rate.
So, crossposting is not inherently bad, perhaps, but it generally has less than positive consequences.
> 3. "Rules"? "Charters"? On unmoderated USENET forums? What's that about? > I've been on USENET for over a decade and that's news to me. I'd guess [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 4. "Prohibited"? That's a pretty strong and strange term to appear in the > free world, ESPECIALLY the internet. How's it implemented here? I've heard references to these as well over the years. I suspect it is similar to the CB rules and regulations I never read to get my license.
You have Keystone here, backing down and on the side. KALC9833.
Steve Kramer - 12 Aug 2006 21:52 GMT > There is none that I know of. The only way I know is by looking at the > "Newsgroups" box on the message and the reply. It's easy to miss. My > first reply was inentionally sent to all three newsgroups. That was supposed to be "UNintentionally"
J - 13 Aug 2006 00:12 GMT > 4This raises a whole slew of questions for me: > 1. How do we know we're crossposting? I see no indication of a post's > USENET origin on my screen (nor do I care where it came from, if the > post is relevant to "my" forum.) Should be a "view" in your Thunderbird software.
> 2. Why is crossposting inherently bad if the posts are mutually relevant? Steve explained.
> 3. "Rules"? "Charters"? On unmoderated USENET forums? What's that about? > I've been on USENET for over a decade and that's news to me. Unmoderated newsgroups can create a FAQ or Charter that some ISP's respect. It's mentioned in their TOS (terms of service) or AUP (Accesptable Use Policy} Here's an example - Comcast's http://www.comcast.net/terms/use.jsp (see section "Newsgroups") alt.support.cancer created one late 2002 and was voted in Spring 2003
> 4. "Prohibited"? That's a pretty strong and strange term to appear in > the free world, ESPECIALLY the internet. How's it implemented here? I'ts not implemented here, but if you crosspost, you're held to the same accountability as if you a) had read your ISP's AUP and b) read the alt.support.cancer Charter and understood how and why it is implemented. (by understanding the problems that were occuring on alt.support.cancer before the Charter) Who is mostly me. I try to be reasonable and fair . You've had some pesky posters here who've gone on and on, about some alternative treatment. Well, before the Charter, sometimes daily, alt.support.cancer was flooded by alternative/quack/conspiracists. And loonies.alt.support.cancer gets every loonie known to man. (or was until I dissuaded (most of ) them, by the tactics (mentioned below). Total chaos which drove some to believe them and others to run off elsewhere for support.
They're still out there, on other newsgroups, telling others that if they come to alt.support.cancer, they'll be reported or "blocked" (a post I post to instruct readers on how to use their newsreaders to "plonk" a poster and/or thread. My goal is to keep alt.support.cancer a quiet and safe place for people to post.
> 5. What's an "AUP"? explained above.
> 6. And while this (I AM on a.s.c.p, aren't I?) You are, in this thread. When you're crossposting a reply, you are in someone else's territory/neighborhood.
Nobody asked the following, but here's the answers.
1) Where is the Charter/FAQ? http://www.cancersupporters.com/asc/index.html
2) Why weren't we asked to vote? Answer: there were readers and posters from both the breast and prostate cancer newsgroup there during the whole time, including people who were subscribed to the ACOR mail list and I repeatedly asked readers to spread the word about the Charter and FAQ as to those who had objections or corrections or suggestions.... We worked on it from, if I recall correctly October or November until May/2003. It consumed one person's time so much that he had to backburner his private and business life, for over 6 months. Same for me, while continuing support on the newsgroup. I searched and contributed links and made suggestions as to what should or not be in there. I reviewed it, word for word, 3 times and sent corrections to the writer. I felt it was too long, but the writer was burned out and refused to change it, otherwise it would have delayed our being able to use it to rid the newsgroup of same "alties" trolls, loonies, conspiracists, crossposters, etc. Any other questions? J
Steve Jordan - 13 Aug 2006 01:53 GMT After going on and on, J wrote, in pertinent part:
> Any other questions? > Yes. Who appointed "J" Fuhrer?
It's been my experience that fools on Usenet are soon plonked or otherwise disposed of without the "help" of some self-appointed Oberst von Gestapo controlling us. We are adults not children.
Steve J
"The whole drift of our law is toward the absolute prohibition of all ideas that diverge in the slightest form from the accepted platitudes, and behind that drift of law there is a far more potent force of growing custom, and under that custom there is a natural philosophy which erects conformity into the noblest of virtues and the free functioning of personality into a capital crime against society." --H. L. Mencken
Beverley - 13 Aug 2006 02:11 GMT A.S.C. and she's not the Fuhrer!
She's only trying to help and undo the chaos that cross posting creates. "J" is probably 100 times more knowledgeable about newsgroups then 99% of the users. She's also extremely knowledgeable about cancer in general and is a wiz at finding information for people.
I've known "J" for about 9 years maybe more. I can tell you this much, the world would be a better place if there were more people like her in it. You will not find a nicer more caring person, anywhere! She's also highly intelligent and witty. So think twice before you start name calling! Bev
> After going on and on, J wrote, in pertinent part: > > Any other questions? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > crime against society." > --H. L. Mencken J - 13 Aug 2006 10:58 GMT > A.S.C. and she's not the Fuhrer! > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > will not find a nicer more caring person, anywhere! She's also highly > intelligent and witty. So think twice before you start name calling! Thanks Bev, hehe.. I've been called worse,.the first year I was on newsgroups.
Some only stay on one or two newsgroups and for years. I watch chaos on other newsgroups. Some have been totally abandoned due to trolls troublemakers, advertisers and crossposters (etc, meaning the types of troubles is too long to list here). One newsgroup, one person watches for new posters and instructs them to email him and (I assume) pulls them into a private email list. J
I.P. Freely - 13 Aug 2006 03:44 GMT > After going on and on, J wrote, in pertinent part: >> Any other questions? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > otherwise disposed of without the "help" of some self-appointed Oberst > von Gestapo controlling us. We are adults not children. Now, Steve, it took me a whole page to state that. Couldda saved myself some time if I'd read your answer first. But he's the HMFWAIC on another forum, and if they like his approach, more power to 'em.
I.P.
I.P. Freely - 13 Aug 2006 03:41 GMT > Any other questions? My head's still reeling from reading your rather stunning charter one I can't comprehend any newbie wanting to wade through -- but it does raise one set of related questions: Is all that necessary? Does it work well? Is it worth the time of you or other "moderators"? Was your forum THAT bad BC - Before Charter -- i.e., far worse than a.s.c.p. is?
A.S.C.P. has nothing like your charter, yet we do a darn good job of -- and seem to enjoy -- ripping spammers and nutjobs new ones. If spammers don't get it, "members" who'd rather PLONK offenders than deal with them readily do so. Many of us welcome legitimate, undisguised commercial posts such as those from the excellent ActiCuf incontinence product and great prices on incontinence underwear; if any commercial interests harass us or disguises their pitch, they pay a price and we have some fun extracting it.
We see almost no flaming among legitimate posters (i.e., those with PC or posting in PC pts' behalf), and if it crops up it doesn't explode or last long because the rest of us ignore it, shout it down, or resolve the disagreement. And even the vast majority of unresolved differences of opinion remain generally restrained, on topic, and impersonal . . . much more so than any other forum I've seen. Glassman and I don't take it personally that he advocates eating blubber and I advocate eating caca verde, it doesn't bother me that some people don't appreciate or even resent my candor, most OT posts are labeled as such so no one has to stumble into them accidentally, and the handful of ad hominem posters usually calm down once their bluff is called. i.e., the vast majority of discord is self-quenching without invoking Big Gum'mint or usurping the lives of moderators.
Only one of your charter's lines bothers me specifically, It's "Do not respond/complain on the newsgroup about inappropriate or off-topic posts. Ignore them or put them in your kill file." This implies that it's up to one Chosen Person to detect, judge, prosecute, and punish violators. IOW, the whole forum's collective and individual brainpower and participation are suppressed and placed in the hands of one person. Many of us have fought in regional and/or global wars against that kind of thinking, and fight it every day right now in the political front. I've abandoned two forums of vital interest to me because one lacks the group and individual will to confront bad actors and the other had a moderator with no concept of right vs wrong, merely an agenda of his own design.
I.P.
J - 13 Aug 2006 11:32 GMT > > Any other questions? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Is it worth the time of you or other "moderators"? Was your forum THAT > bad BC - Before Charter -- i.e., far worse than a.s.c.p. is? Yes it was - it was like a war zone most days. From time to time, there was a few days break and then the troubles started up again. a.s.c. is the target of every alternative medicine, known to man, because of the nature of many of the readers/posters; many come to a.s.c. when all other options have been exhausted. Not all, some have been there for years and been cured.
> A.S.C.P. has nothing like your charter, yet we do a darn good job of -- > and seem to enjoy -- ripping spammers and nutjobs new ones. Yes, I've noticed, but many of you have been here for years. And, for instance, you've not had to deal with someone like "ironjustice" Or Jai Maharaj, who crossposted recycled "news" to Hindu newsgroups, where they call meat "corpses" All of a sudden a posts shows up, where "ironjustice" is cursing and swearing and people wonder, what's this about and why do I have to read this filth.
Or a poster or loved one is near the end (of his/her life) and he/she sees a post about corpses.???
> If spammers > don't get it, "members" who'd rather PLONK offenders than deal with them [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > harass us or disguises their pitch, they pay a price and we have some > fun extracting it. Many who come to a.s.c. have either been on their own safe newsgroups or are totally new to newsgroups, and in some cases, totally new to computers. Some think it's a "private room". I have to frequently post, please do not reveal personal details. One actually posted his social insurance number (the equivalent of your social security number).
> We see almost no flaming among legitimate posters (i.e., those with PC > or posting in PC pts' behalf), and if it crops up it doesn't explode or [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > discord is self-quenching without invoking Big Gum'mint or usurping the > lives of moderators. This newsgroup is not under seige, every day, the way it was on a.s.c.
> Only one of your charter's lines bothers me specifically, It's "Do not > respond/complain on the newsgroup about inappropriate or off-topic > posts. Ignore them or put them in your kill file." Well, many do that anyway, on many newsgroups. Many newbies don't even know how to use their newsreaders or realize they are posting to a newsgroup.
> This implies that > it's up to one Chosen Person to detect, judge, prosecute, and punish > violators. IOW, the whole forum's collective and individual brainpower > and participation are suppressed and placed in the hands of one person. It can be viewed that way, but I am all knowing/seeing. I'm serious. If a new poster comes on, seemingly contravening the Charter and/or causes a disruption, I research their other newsgroups and their behaviour there and/or recognize them from other newsgroups that I read. I read (scan) and look for posters who've been problems before, on other newsgroups, daily.
> Many of us have fought in regional and/or global wars against that kind > of thinking, and fight it every day right now in the political front. > I've abandoned two forums of vital interest to me because one lacks the > group and individual will to confront bad actors and the other had a > moderator with no concept of right vs wrong, merely an agenda of his own > design. If you go to a public place, are you allowed to bring your pet pony, shoot people, walk in nude? We all have to deal with rules of one kind or another, in our lives. My agenda is (first) to protect the newsgroup and all those who belong there and those who come there to be of support.
Those who never experienced the "warzone" don't understand. I urge them to check the archives and see what troubles were there before. Some do and some take my/our word for it. There's 2 others who've been there longer than I. Because of what I do, their task is easier. One's in palliative care, the other is an oncologist. One (American) oncologist abandoned, some years back, due to threats.
I am anonymous and stand up to threats. And I have the Charter to back me up. We use various tactics, which I am not at liberty to share, to sway "alties" into not posting. (I have to be careful what I publicly share, because some of them can find me, via the archives) and/or could be reading this newsgroup, as we speak.
Here's the way I see it. My presence there frees up those who belong there to post and share their experiences, and yes, products they feel helped their situation (as long as they don't have a financial interest in them). a.s.c also gets people who claim to be doctors, who aren't. Fund-raising posts and everything that's in the prohibited section.
Are there objections? Yes, those who've not been through the war zone.
I guess it's hard for readers to understand, unless they've been in the war zone... J
I.P. Freely - 13 Aug 2006 19:01 GMT >> Was your forum THAT >> bad BC - Before Charter -- i.e., far worse than a.s.c.p. is? > > Yes it was - it was like a war zone most days. > you've not had to deal with someone like "ironjustice" Oh, he's well known here. But overall your situation does sound far worse than ours. Our biggest issues are usually candor above and beyond some members' tolerance, honest differences of interpretation and opinion, and how often to eat prime rib. Occasionally, if we're lucky, someone like Ironjustice or the nani juice lady or Fagbemi throws him/herself on the fire ant bed to our delight and diversion.
> This newsgroup is not under seige, every day, the way it was on a.s.c. Not even close. Our worst regular nightmare is moi, and I'm a pussycat.
> It can be viewed that way, but I am all knowing/seeing. I'm serious. > If a new poster comes on, seemingly contravening the Charter and/or causes a > disruption, I research their other newsgroups and their behaviour there > and/or recognize them from other newsgroups that I read. > I read (scan) and look for posters who've been problems before, on other > newsgroups, daily. Admirable goals and effort, and since your group grants and accepts your authority, their call. But I have a tip I'll bet you've never seen before: not everything on the internet is true. '-) i.e., some people are grossly libeled on the internet, and it can be very time-consuming to decipher the truth about am individual.
>> Many of us have fought in regional and/or global wars against that kind >> of thinking, and fight it every day right now in the political front. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > If you go to a public place, are you allowed to bring your pet pony Yep, as long as I clean up behind it.
> shoot people Yep, if they are committing a felony.
> walk in nude? In some parts of Europe, apparently. I sure see lots of nude Germans at public parks here in the U.S.
> (I have to be careful what I publicly share, because some of them can find > me, via the archives) and/or could be reading this newsgroup, as we speak. Exactly why you don't know my identity. (If you do, please let me know so I can hide better.)
> I guess it's hard for readers to understand, unless they've been in the war > zone... Very persuasive arguments for your position, charter, and efforts. Beverley's accolades seem well justified.
I.P.
MikeHi - 15 Aug 2006 10:03 GMT Alan
The long and the short of all this spot of pother is - just keep posting on this group. I for one would have lost some valuable advice on my queries of a few days ago - and before.
Carry On Alan.
MikeHi
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