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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / August 2006Vitamin/Herb regime
I know not everyone subscribe's to this theory that vitamins/herbs may do some good, but we are doing everything to battle this. Tom is taking all the stuff below to help his blood/immune system ... even if it is a little boost to help fight the bad cells. Do any of you take any of this or anything else we could possibly add to the list? Indole 3 Carbinol - 1 tab/ 3x day, 200 mg. This is in question though ... Tom found this link: http://www.phytochemicals.info/phytochemicals/indole-3-carbinol.php Especially this line: "Most studies report protective effects but a few studies indicate that indole-3-carbinol may promote prostate cancer formation." So he is going to quit taking it, just in case that is true. Pau D' Arco - 2 tabs/ 3x day, 500 mg Zyflamend - 1 tab/ 2x day Astragalus - 1 tab/ 3x day, 250 mg root, 250 mg extract Selenium - 1 tab/ 1x day, 100 mcg Cayenne - 1 tab/ 2x day, 450 mg Vitamin E - 1 tab/ 1x day, 400 iu Essiac - 2 tsp/ 2x day Omega 3 - 1 tab/ 2x day, 500 mg Emer' gen-C - 1 envelope/ 2x day - This has B1, B2, B3, B6, B12, folic acid, etc. Mushroom Immune Defense - 16 mushroom complex - 1 tab/ 2x day Thank you and I hope you are all having a great day! :) Catherine > I know not everyone subscribe's to this theory that vitamins/herbs may > do some good, but we are doing everything to battle this. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > you take any of this or anything else we could possibly add to the > list? Some time in 2005, a fellow posted his multi-page anti-PC regimen, which sounded like it a) included most supplements known to mankind and b) surely must occupy most of his waking hours. He grew stuff, ground stuff, mixed some stuff, separated other stuff, scheduled the ingestion of various stuff to the nearest 15 minutes from alarm clock:AM to Leno:PM, made sure no stuff encountered other stuff in his digestive tract that might negate or inhibit the last stuff he took, and no doubt avoided some stuff. I don't think he ate FOOD any more, just stuff, seriously. Now, I hope you guys don't go that far with it, because he has replaced a productive and fun life with an all-consuming obsession, but you may get some useful ideas from his regimen. You may be able to find it by searching the forum archives with a few obscure supplements as key words. I.P. As we sit here cracking up ... Tom says "tell him I am not that organized!!" :) And trust me, he's not!! I have been reading the archives, but will continue to search for that "stuff" ;) Thank you, I.P. Btw, love the name! Catherine > I know not everyone subscribe's to this theory that vitamins/herbs may > do some good, but we are doing everything to battle this. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Catherine Perhaps we've been through this before, but there is a clinical trial in progress which is studying the utility of Selenium 200 mc plus 400 units Vitamin E. So there must be some scientifically valid reason to believe that regimen might prevent prostate cancer. Otherwise no one would fund it. Of course, we won't know if it is effective until the study is complete. also, even if it helps prevent prostate cancer, it may or may not be useeful in preventing it to recur. Peter Scardino's book "The Prostate" has a list of supplements which have been proposed as possibly effective in different cirucmstances and comments about each. The more I study that book, the more I am impressed with it. Scardino is one of the world's leading prostate cancer researchers as well as being a highly skilled surgeon. A recent study of other studies found that there is no clear evidence from any of them that any vitamin or other supplement prevents or treats cancer. They didn't conclude that supplements don't help, only that we don't yet have scientifically and statistically valid evidence that they help. Now, having said that, I will go on and confess to taking some supplements - though only those that I think are very safe. I do it first, on the theory that they won't hurt me, secondly on the theory that they may help (all of the ones I take have either killed a tumor cell in a test tube or in a mouse), and thirdly, because they make me feel like I'm doing something besides passively accepting my fate. One supplement that I like that you didn't mention is a glass of tomato juice each day, for the lycopene. I like tomato juice anyway so it's not a problem for me to take it. Pomegranate juice has also been touted by a recent study. It was funded by a big pomegranate grower so I don't think we can trust it yet until it's confirmed. However, I think it passes the "we can eat this safely" test. Alan Catherine, Another one I've been reading about, but I haven't tried yet is Equiguard. There is some info here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed Also, I'm consuming a lot of soy products. Apparently, when soy protein is digested, in about 50% of people, it creates something called equol. This negates the effects of DHT. It seems like it's sorta like HT without the side effects. I may be way off base on that. Anyway, if you look at the clinical trials for PCa, several involve soy. So somebody thinks there is some effect. John You might try checking soy in combination with post-menopausal symptoms. I think it is a major ingredient in many post menopausal natural supplements for women. Something about soy eliminating hot flashes, etc. Bev > Catherine, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > John [ SNIP] > One supplement that I like that you didn't mention is a glass of > tomato juice each day, for the lycopene. I like tomato juice [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Alan I've become addicted to both V8 and pomegranate juice. However, be aware that V8 has a LOT of sodium in it, so the low-sodium version may be a better choice. And pomegranate juice has a lot of calories from carbs and sugar. An option is commonly available and low-cost pomegranate extract capsules. I gulp down a couple of those, plus tumeric, omega 3, selenium, vitamin D -- pretty much anything that doesn't have a skull-and-crossbones on the label. :-) Alex > One supplement that I like that you didn't mention is a glass of > tomato juice each day, for the lycopene. I like tomato juice > anyway so it's not a problem for me to take it. Alan, Dr. Andrew Weil said on a recent PBS program that tomatos only provide lycopene after they've been cooked, especially with a healthy oil like olive oil. I gathered from what he said that raw tomatos and tomato juice (which I love) would not provide much benefit. So I use a lot of tomato sauce instead. John > One supplement that I like that you didn't mention is a glass of > tomato juice each day, for the lycopene. I like tomato juice > anyway so it's not a problem for me to take it. Alan, Dr. Andrew Weil said on a recent PBS program that tomatos only provide lycopene after they've been cooked, especially with a healthy oil like olive oil. I gathered from what he said that raw tomatos and tomato juice (which I love) would not provide much benefit. So I use a lot of tomato sauce instead. John >> One supplement that I like that you didn't mention is a glass of >> tomato juice each day, for the lycopene. I like tomato juice [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > John Isnt there some cooking involved in producing tomato juice and V8? If you make it at home the answer is YES. I have no idea how the major companies do it but most juice now is pasteurized so that means it is heated and held at a steady temp for a certain length of time. Bev > >> One supplement that I like that you didn't mention is a glass of > >> tomato juice each day, for the lycopene. I like tomato juice [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > John > Isnt there some cooking involved in producing tomato juice and V8? > Isnt there some cooking involved in producing tomato juice and V8? I think you're right. I just assumed they juiced a raw tomato, but you comment made me do some checking. I found at: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-lycopene.htm "Tomatoes are chock full of lycopene. Fresh tomatoes are an excellent source of lycopene, but cooked tomato products such as tomato and pizza sauce, tomato juice, tomato soup, and even ketchup, are more concentrated. For example, one fresh tomato contains 3.7 mgs of lycopene, while one cup of tomato soup has 24.8 mgs of lycopene. Because of the form of lycopene in this cooked type of tomato product, the body can more easily absorb the chemical." I also found that 1 cup of tomato juice is 22.9 mg and one cup of tomato sauce is 40 mg. I'm going to load up on juice today. Thanks for pointing that out. John >> Isnt there some cooking involved in producing tomato juice and V8? > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > I'm going to load up on juice today. Don't forget that watermelons contain more lycopene than tomatoes do. I haven't tried watermelon sauce on pasta, nor have I thrown watermelons at a bad stage act, but they are surely more fun to eat than tomatoes if you're dressed right and outdoors. I.P. >>> Isnt there some cooking involved in producing tomato juice and V8? >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > a bad stage act, but they are surely more fun to eat than tomatoes if > you're dressed right and outdoors. My mother ate lots and lots of watermelon. She lived to be 91. And not the slightest sign of prostate cancer. > My mother ate lots and lots of watermelon. She lived to be 91. And not the > slightest sign of prostate cancer. There ya go! A perfect example of the validity of anecdotal evidence. ;-) We used to raid watermelon fields late at night. It's amazing how many watermelons a teen-aged boy can eat when ya concentrate on the heart of them. I.P. Hi Catherine...Here are two links that may prove helpful. The first link http://cancer.ucsf.edu/crc/nutrition.php takes you to a UCSF website. Once there, click on "Nutrition and Prostate Cancer" to download a PDF file on nutrition and PCa. The article covers diet, supplements, herbs, etc. It even provides some recipes! The second link, http://www.brazjurol.com.br/january_february_2006/Santillo_ing_3_14.htm or http://tinyurl.com/k4236 is to a recent publication that summarizes studies / tests that have been performed on various supplements and then presents a conclusion for that supplement. As to your question about what else to add to your regimen, I'll second Alex's recommendation on Vitamin D. Most North American and European males are deficient in this vitamin, and this plays into PCa and bone density (has your husband had his bone density measured?). There are simple blood tests that measure serum vitamin D; if found to be low, start upping your Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol, cheap and widely available) intake...Best wishes and good health, Ron Although it diverges from an "all natural" approach, you might investigate a statin, such as Vytorin, and a COX-2 inhibitor such as Celebrex (least problematic). Here are two references http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/cansaid.htm http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=11894121&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum I've been holding-off having to take the dreaded "hormonal therapy" for recurrent PCa for the past four years, by taking those meds, along with a low-fat/no-fat/mono fat diet of cooking only with olive oil, no red meat, occasional white meat chicken, fish (salmon, sardines, anchovies, tuna) at least twice a week, whole wheat pasta and breads, cooked tomato at least twice a week, whole grain cereal, fresh and cooked hot and sweet peppers, and any other yellow-to-red vegetable, apples, etc. And, I take the following: Multiple vitamin B-complex Selenium, 200 mcg High gamma tocopherol (E), 400 mg Time-release C, 1500 mg CoQ-10, 400 mg Calcium citrate, 300 mg 2x daily Vitamin D, 2000 IU 2X daily with the calcium Fish oil (DHA-144 mg, EPA-216mg) 2x daily Zyflamend, 2 softgels in the AM (Started that about three months ago) Vytorin 10/20 Celebrex, 200 mg > I've been holding-off having to take the dreaded "hormonal therapy" for > recurrent PCa for the past four years, by taking those meds, along with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > tomato at least twice a week, whole grain cereal, fresh and cooked hot > and sweet peppers, and any other yellow-to-red vegetable, apples, etc. IOW, a normal, healthy diet. One exception: occasional lean, trimmed red meat is desirable for some nutrients unique to it, and its sat fat content is no greater than that of the skinless chicken breast. Add canola oil for salads and peanut oil for stir-fry (it takes the heat best), some low-fat dairy, nuts, and plenty of fruits, and you're batting a thousand. I'm constantly amazed at the variety of foods my wife whips up from that foundation. Don't forget to watch for ANY unexplained muscle or joint pain. At the first sign of either, contact your doctor immediately and inquire about your statin. If your cardiovascular system is healthy, stop the statin immediately; if not, cut your statin intake by 50% every couple of days. And don't forget that occasional pizza (I still remember the one I had a few months ago). Unless you have known cardiovascular disease, an occasional high-fat meal isn't going to hurt us . . . much. (With CVD, one high-fat meal can kill.) That . . . or change your genes and eat like the Glassman. ;-) I.P. Ken, we're in the same boat; what has your PSA been doing in response to all that? I don't eat nearly as good as you do but I take Theralogix Prostate 2.2 (200 IU E, 3200 IU D, 400 mcg selenium, 60 mg lycopene, 250 mcg soy isoflavones) caps, a 250 mg pomegranate extract cap, and 325 mg naproxen 2x. I've been trying different cominations and have also included higher doses of E and fish oil. Another caveat on the studies of the vitamin/nutrient studies: they DO NOT use enough to reach what is believed to be a therapeutic dose. My PSA has been doing weird things. In 6 mos. it went up only .07 from .6 to .67, then jumped to 1.1 in 3 mos., after which it was down to .93 3 weeks later, and now .96 3 mos. after that. I'm thinking the 1.1 was a fluke. Bill Denton RP 2/12/02 PSA .96 Memphis > Ken, we're in the same boat; what has your PSA been doing in response > to all that? I don't eat nearly as good as you do but I take Theralogix > Prostate 2.2 (200 IU E, 3200 IU D, 400 mcg selenium, 60 mg lycopene, > 250 mcg soy isoflavones) caps, a 250 mg pomegranate extract cap, and > 325 mg naproxen 2x. I've been trying different cominations and have > also included higher doses of E and fish oil. I guess this is as good time as any to hijack a thread. By GP wants me to go off Vit. E due to recent studies regarding effects on the heart. Is there any evidence that Vit. E actually helps the fight against PCa?  SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06, 6/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 Casodex added daily 07/06 Non Illegitimi Carborundum > I guess this is as good time as any to hijack a thread. Given the number of times E has been touted lately, I agree. > My GP wants me to go off Vit. E due to recent studies regarding effects on > the heart. > > Is there any evidence that Vit. E actually helps the fight against PCa? I've gotten the IMPRESSION there's more evidence that 400 IU of vit E is harmful to our CV system than there is that E fights PC. OTOH . . . someone recently said he'd prefer to die of a heart attack than by PC. I.P. > OTOH . . . someone recently said he'd prefer to die of a heart attack than > by PC. Excellent point!!! Why did I eat those four pieces of banana nut bread if I'm worried about my heart? :-) SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06, 6/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 Casodex added daily 07/06 Non Illegitimi Carborundum >> OTOH . . . someone recently said he'd prefer to die of a heart attack than >> by PC. > > Excellent point!!! Why did I eat those four pieces of banana nut bread if > I'm worried about my heart? :-) Because potassium and fiber are good for us. The main problem was the butter. And, oh yeah . . . because it TASTES GOOD. I.P. >>Ken, we're in the same boat; what has your PSA been doing in response >>to all that? I don't eat nearly as good as you do but I take Theralogix [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Is there any evidence that Vit. E actually helps the fight against PCa? Steve, The study your GP is referring to is bogus. The problem is that doctors call a substance "Vit. E" even if its chemical composition is totally different than the actual substance found in nature. Basically, if you just look at natural Vit. E complex, then nobody has ever reported any adverse effects at any dosage. The worst "Vit. E" to take is the synthetic Vit. E (differenct chemical composition). Natural Vit. E (not the complex) is also not that good to take in large dosages, since it is purified d-alpha tocopherol, and significant health benefits have been identified in the beta and gamma components. Too much alpha will decrease your beta and gamma concentrations. Although I'm not aware of any studies that show a positive effect for Vit. E in vivo, Dr. Meikle has demonstrated that it kills Pca cells in vitro: Gunawardena K, Murray DK, Meikle AW. Vitamin E and other antioxidants inhibit human prostate cancer cells through apoptosis. Prostate. 2000;44:287-295 Ed Friedman > Steve, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > have been identified in the beta and gamma components. Too much alpha > will decrease your beta and gamma concentrations. Okay. I have 400IU of Vit E that includes di-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate as its first ingredient. Are you saying that is the good or the bad? I usually take 1000IU, but the wife has a hard time looking at labels. SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06, 6/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 Casodex added daily 07/06 Non Illegitimi Carborundum > Okay. I have 400IU of Vit E that includes di-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate as > its first ingredient. > > Are you saying that is the good or the bad? > > I usually take 1000IU, but the wife has a hard time looking at labels. Steve, It sounds like you are taking synthetic Vit. E, which would be labeled dl-alpha tocopherol instead of the d-alpha tocopherol which is found naturally. To see an example of what a label with natural Vit. E complex would look like, check out: http://shop.lifetimefitness.com/items/supplement_page.cfm?ITEM_ID=14 Also, the succinate form of Vit. E is reputed to have the most anti-cancer activity (I've heard that said on some sci.med.nutrition post a few years ago, but I don't have any references to back up that statement). Ed Friedman > It sounds like you are taking synthetic Vit. E, which would be labeled > dl-alpha tocopherol instead of the d-alpha tocopherol which is found > naturally. You are correct, sir! > Also, the succinate form of Vit. E is reputed to have the most anti-cancer > activity Thanks for your help! SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06, 6/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 Casodex added daily 07/06 Non Illegitimi Carborundum > It sounds like you are taking synthetic Vit. E, which would be labeled > dl-alpha tocopherol instead of the d-alpha tocopherol which is found > naturally. To see an example of what a label with natural Vit. E > complex would look like, check out: > Also, the succinate form of Vit. E Ed, my bottle of Vitamin E reads: di-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate Where does the "acetate" come into the picture? I found nothing about "succinate". >> It sounds like you are taking synthetic Vit. E, which would be labeled >> dl-alpha tocopherol instead of the d-alpha tocopherol which is found [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > di-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate Are you sure it's not dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, which is synthetic? > Where does the "acetate" come into the picture? > > I found nothing about "succinate". Synthetic vitamin E (dl-Alpha Tocopheryl or dl-Alpha Tocopherol) should be avoided. In addition to or instead of the natural Alpha Tocopherol, natural gamma-tocopherol or natural vitamin E mixture containg also gamma-tocopherol should be used, IMHO. Below some Medline references related to gamma-tocopherol and prostate cancer: 1: Vraka PS, Drouza C, Rikkou MP, Odysseos AD, Keramidas AD. Synthesis and study of the cancer cell growth inhibitory properties of alpha-, gamma-tocopheryl and gamma-tocotrienyl 2-phenylselenyl succinates. Bioorg Med Chem. 2006 Apr 15;14(8):2684-96. Epub 2005 Dec 27. PMID: 16378730 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=16378730> 2: Jiang Q, Wong J, Ames BN. Gamma-tocopherol induces apoptosis in androgen-responsive LNCaP prostate cancer cells via caspase-dependent and independent mechanisms. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2004 Dec;1031:399-400. PMID: 15753180 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/1031/1/399> "We found that gamma-tocopherol, the predominant vitamin E form in diets, but not alpha-tocopherol, which is the exclusive form of vitamin E in most supplements, exhibited antiproliferation effect on prostate (PC-3, LNCaP) and lung (A549) cancer cells. gamma-Tocopherol induced apoptosis in androgen-sensitive LNCaP but not androgen-resistant PC-3 cells. Consequently, gamma- tocopherol treatment caused cytochrome c release and caspase-9, -3 and -7 activation. However, the apoptosis could not be completely reversed by an irreversible pancaspase inhibitor, indicating that an alternative caspase-independent pathway may also be involved. Our study suggests that gamma-tocopherol may be valuable in the prevention and therapy for certain types of cancer." 3: Weinstein SJ, Wright ME, Pietinen P, King I, Tan C, Taylor PR, Virtamo J, Albanes D. Serum alpha-tocopherol and gamma-tocopherol in relation to prostate cancer risk in a prospective study. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2005 Mar 2;97(5):396-9. PMID: 15741576 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://jncicancerspectrum.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/jnci;97/5/396> "... Participants with higher circulating concentrations of the major vitamin E fractions, alpha-tocopherol and gamma-tocopherol, had similarly lower prostate cancer risk." 4: Jiang Q, Wong J, Fyrst H, Saba JD, Ames BN. gamma-Tocopherol or combinations of vitamin E forms induce cell death in human prostate cancer cells by interrupting sphingolipid synthesis. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2004 Dec 21;101(51):17825-30. Epub 2004 Dec 13. PMID: 15596715 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/101/51/17825> 5: Galli F, Stabile AM, Betti M, Conte C, Pistilli A, Rende M, Floridi A, Azzi A. The effect of alpha- and gamma-tocopherol and their carboxyethyl hydroxychroman metabolites on prostate cancer cell proliferation. Arch Biochem Biophys. 2004 Mar 1;423(1):97-102. PMID: 14871472 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=14871472> 6: Huang HY, Alberg AJ, Norkus EP, Hoffman SC, Comstock GW, Helzlsouer KJ. Prospective study of antioxidant micronutrients in the blood and the risk of developing prostate cancer. Am J Epidemiol. 2003 Feb 15;157(4):335-44. Erratum in: Am J Epidemiol. 2003 Jun 15;157(12):1126. PMID: 12578804 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/157/4/335> "... A strong inverse association between gamma-tocopherol and prostate cancer risk was observed in CLUE II." 7: Jiang Q, Christen S, Shigenaga MK, Ames BN. gamma-tocopherol, the major form of vitamin E in the US diet, deserves more attention. Am J Clin Nutr. 2001 Dec;74(6):714-22. Review. PMID: 11722951 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/74/6/714> "... Both gamma-tocopherol and gamma-CEHC, but not alpha- tocopherol, inhibit cyclooxygenase activity and, thus, possess antiinflammatory properties. Some human and animal studies indicate that plasma concentrations of gamma-tocopherol are inversely associated with the incidence of cardiovascular disease and prostate cancer. These distinguishing features of gamma-tocopherol and its metabolite suggest that gamma- tocopherol may contribute significantly to human health in ways not recognized previously. This possibility should be further evaluated, especially considering that high doses of alpha- tocopherol deplete plasma and tissue gamma-tocopherol, in contrast with supplementation with gamma-tocopherol, which increases both. ..." 8: Helzlsouer KJ, Huang HY, Alberg AJ, Hoffman S, Burke A, Norkus EP, Morris JS, Comstock GW. Association between alpha-tocopherol, gamma-tocopherol, selenium, and subsequent prostate cancer. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2000 Dec 20;92(24):2018-23. PMID: 11121464 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://jncicancerspectrum.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/jnci;92/24/2018> "... RESULTS: The risk of prostate cancer declined, but not linearly, with increasing concentrations of alpha-tocopherol (odds ratio (highest versus lowest fifth) = 0.65; 95% confidence interval = 0.32--1.32; P(trend) =.28). For gamma- tocopherol, men in the highest fifth of the distribution had a fivefold reduction in the risk of developing prostate cancer than men in the lowest fifth (P:(trend) =.002). The association between selenium and prostate cancer risk was in the protective direction with individuals in the top four fifths of the distribution having a reduced risk of prostate cancer compared with individuals in the bottom fifth (P(trend) =.27). Statistically significant protective associations for high levels of selenium and alpha-tocopherol were observed only when gamma-tocopherol concentrations were high. CONCLUSIONS: The use of combined alpha- and gamma- tocopherol supplements should be considered in upcoming prostate cancer prevention trials, given the observed interaction between alpha-tocopherol, gamma- tocopherol, and selenium." SignatureMatti Narkia >>> It sounds like you are taking synthetic Vit. E, which would be labeled >>> dl-alpha tocopherol instead of the d-alpha tocopherol which is found [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Tocopherol, natural gamma-tocopherol or natural vitamin E mixture >containg also gamma-tocopherol should be used, IMHO. The article Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University <http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminE/> gives a good summary about vitamin E. In the previous message I gave some references about gamma-tocopherol and prostate cancer. Now a few words about alpha-tocopherol. Alpha-tocopherol supplements are available in the ester forms, alpha-tocopheryl succinate and alpha-tocopheryl acetate. Of these two alpha-tocopheryl succinate seems to be better against PCa, although so far the evidence is fairly scarce. Below some Medline references about alpha-tocopheryl succinate and PCa: Basu A, Imrhan V. Vitamin E and prostate cancer: is vitamin E succinate a superior chemopreventive agent? Nutr Rev. 2005 Jul;63(7):247-51. Review. PMID: 16121478 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=16121478> "There is convincing evidence that vitamin E succinate significantly reduces human prostate cancer growth in experimental models compared with alpha-tocopherol or tocopheryl acetate. Its intact delivery to cancer cells is questionable when administered orally; however, a study in transgenic mice showed a synergistic inhibitory effect of dietary vitamin E succinate, selenium, and lycopene on prostate cancer incidence. Clinical trials have yet to confirm this effect." Malafa MP, Fokum FD, Andoh J, Neitzel LT, Bandyopadhyay S, Zhan R, Iiizumi M, Furuta E, Horvath E, Watabe K. ' Vitamin E succinate suppresses prostate tumor growth by inducing apoptosis. Int J Cancer. 2006 May 15;118(10):2441-7. PMID: 16380976 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=16380976> Shiau CW, Huang JW, Wang DS, Weng JR, Yang CC, Lin CH, Li C, Chen CS. alpha-Tocopheryl succinate induces apoptosis in prostate cancer cells in part through inhibition of Bcl-xL/Bcl-2 function. J Biol Chem. 2006 Apr 28;281(17):11819-25. Epub 2006 Mar 6. PMID: 16520381 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/281/17/11819> Zhang M, Altuwaijri S, Yeh S. RRR-alpha-tocopheryl succinate inhibits human prostate cancer cell invasiveness. Oncogene. 2004 Apr 15;23(17):3080-8. PMID: 15048090 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=15048090> Donapaty S, Louis S, Horvath E, Kun J, Sebti SM, Malafa MP. RRR-alpha-tocopherol succinate down-regulates oncogenic Ras signaling. Mol Cancer Ther. 2006 Feb;5(2):309-16. PMID: 16505104 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://mct.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/5/2/309> Ni J, Chen M, Zhang Y, Li R, Huang J, Yeh S. Vitamin E succinate inhibits human prostate cancer cell growth via modulating cell cycle regulatory machinery. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2003 Jan 10;300(2):357-63. PMID: 12504091 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=12504091> Zhang Y, Ni J, Messing EM, Chang E, Yang CR, Yeh S. Vitamin E succinate inhibits the function of androgen receptor and the expression of prostate-specific antigen in prostate cancer cells. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2002 May 28;99(11):7408-13. PMID: 12032296 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=12032296> Israel K, Yu W, Sanders BG, Kline K. Vitamin E succinate induces apoptosis in human prostate cancer cells: role for Fas in vitamin E succinate-triggered apoptosis. Nutr Cancer. 2000;36(1):90-100. PMID: 10798221 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLIN <http://www.leaonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207%2FS15327914NC3601_13> Israel K, Sanders BG, Kline K. RRR-alpha-tocopheryl succinate inhibits the proliferation of human prostatic tumor cells with defective cell cycle/differentiation pathways. Nutr Cancer. 1995;24(2):161-9. PMID: 8584452 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=R etrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=8584452> Ripoll EA, Rama BN, Webber MM. Vitamin E enhances the chemotherapeutic effects of adriamycin on human prostatic carcinoma cells in vitro. J Urol. 1986 Aug;136(2):529-31. PMID: 3735528 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=3735528> SignatureMatti Narkia >>>> It sounds like you are taking synthetic Vit. E, which would be labeled >>>> dl-alpha tocopherol instead of the d-alpha tocopherol which is found [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >alpha-tocopheryl succinate seems to be better against PCa, although so >far the evidence is fairly scarce. In addition to tocopherols vitamin E family contains another group of molecules called tocotrienols, some of which may also be useful in PCa, although so far the volume of research ha been very small. Links: Tocotrienols <http://www.gettingwell.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/toc_0254.shtml> Tocotrienols <http://www.deliciouslivingmag.com/healthnotes/healthnotes.cfm?org=nh&lang=EN&Con tentID=2918000> Tocotrienol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocotrienol> Tocotrienols : by Ray Sahelian, M.D. health benefit <http://www.raysahelian.com/tocotrienols.html> Tocotrienol.org <http://www.tocotrienol.org/> Medline references: Srivastava JK, Gupta S. Tocotrienol-rich fraction of palm oil induces cell cycle arrest and apoptosis selectively in human prostate cancer cells. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2006 Jul 28;346(2):447-53. Epub 2006 Jun 2. PMID: 16762318 [PubMed - in process] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=16762318> Kumar KS, Raghavan M, Hieber K, Ege C, Mog S, Parra N, Hildabrand A, Singh V, Srinivasan V, Toles R, Karikari P, Petrovics G, Seed T, Srivastava S, Papas A. Preferential radiation sensitization of prostate cancer in nude mice by nutraceutical antioxidant gamma-tocotrienol. Life Sci. 2006 Mar 27;78(18):2099-104. Epub 2006 Jan 18. PMID: 16413038 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=16413038> Vraka PS, Drouza C, Rikkou MP, Odysseos AD, Keramidas AD. Synthesis and study of the cancer cell growth inhibitory properties of alpha-, gamma-tocopheryl and gamma-tocotrienyl 2-phenylselenyl succinates. Bioorg Med Chem. 2006 Apr 15;14(8):2684-96. Epub 2005 Dec 27. PMID: 16378730 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=16378730> Conte C, Floridi A, Aisa C, Piroddi M, Floridi A, Galli F. Gamma-tocotrienol metabolism and antiproliferative effect in prostate cancer cells. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2004 Dec;1031:391-4. PMID: 15753178 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/1031/1/391> Schaffer S, Muller WE, Eckert GP. Tocotrienols: constitutional effects in aging and disease. J Nutr. 2005 Feb;135(2):151-4. Review. PMID: 15671205 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/135/2/151> Theriault A, Chao JT, Wang Q, Gapor A, Adeli K. Tocotrienol: a review of its therapeutic potential. Clin Biochem. 1999 Jul;32(5):309-19. Review. PMID: 10480444 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1 0480444&dopt=Citation> SignatureMatti Narkia Bill, my PSA was 6.8, four years ago. Four "second opinon" doctors said I had to get on Lupron and/or at least intermittent Casodex, or I had 12 to 18 months to live. To make a long story short... I found out that Dr. Dan George, at Boston's Dana-Farber Cancer Center, was working on a theory that COX-2 inhibitors such as Vioxx and Celebrex promoted cancer cell apoptosis. I went to see him. His diagnosis for me was exactly the same as everyone else's, but he gave me an hour of his time to discuss - unofficially - his research. A week later, I was on Celebrex, and six months later, my monthly PSA had dropped to 6 and plateaued there. Then the Vioxx flack hit the fan and my doctor said it wasn't worth it for me to take Celebrex. Two months later, my PSA had jumpted to 9.9. Coincidentally, a study was published showing that COX-2 inhibitors increased their effect on apoptosis when combined with statins. A week later, I was on Vytorin, and back on Celebrex. A year later, my PSA was 5.2. It has been bumping along since then holding a horizontal line on the graph, given the error margin for PSA testing. I get a CT and bone scan and X-rays every year, and the cancer cells haven't been able to grow large enough to be detected. I'm constantly aware that the little bastards are in me, just waiting for an opportunity... but, so far, so good. My oncologist's current rule of thumb for starting anti-androgens is when the PSA doubles in 12 weeks or less, or if it goes above 10. (For any new folks reading this, we're talking about post prostatectomy PSA.) Oh, I forgot to mention that I drink about 10 ounces of green tea, and about 10 ounces of pomegranate juice (from pure concentrate), daily. I also enjoy an occasional John Adams Cherry Wheat Ale. ;-) By the way, in reference to omega-3 and 6 oils, here is an excellent resource: www.pubmed.gov with the search string: "alpha-linolenic acid AND prostate cancer" I'm writing concerning my father-in law who is 84.I was over there tonight and he is just so frustrated with taking meds. His Dr. just put him on a new med called Uroxatrol, he's been taking it for about a week now with no relief. In fact he can't leave the house, do to him needing to go to the bathroom all the time. Sometimes 10 times in a hour. Anyway he came upon an ad for an herbal tea called Prostate Ezee flow. Has anyone heard of this, please respond if you know of anyone trying this. He's desperate and wanting relief . Thanks wags >I know not everyone subscribe's to this theory that vitamins/herbs may >do some good, but we are doing everything to battle this. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > >Catherine |
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