 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / August 2006Another thought/question
Chris jiggled a thought in my brain when he said "I think more difficult was deciding to tell my co-workers. I didn't tell them until after the surgery, but I decided that so many people DON'T get PSA checks until it's too late, that it was worth any potential embarrassment. " Why are we hiding prostate cancer and sweeping it under the carpet? Where is the embarrassment? Is it just the word CANCER or is it specifically prostate cancer? And why? Bev > Chris jiggled a thought in my brain when he said "I think more difficult was > deciding to tell my co-workers. I didn't tell them until after the surgery, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the embarrassment? Is it just the word CANCER or is it specifically prostate > cancer? And why? My wife talked openly and freely about my PC to the men where she works. Some mentioned that her candid discussions motivated them to get their first tests. I got over any embarrassment the first -- OK, second -- time I was awakened in the recovery ward by a large gaggle of med students lifting my sheet to gawk at my bloody, crusty, purple, distended but foreshortened, stinking genitals. After that I'll TALK to ANYbody about it. I.P. > Chris jiggled a thought in my brain when he said "I think more difficult was > deciding to tell my co-workers. I didn't tell them until after the surgery, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cancer? And why? > Bev I told my friends and coworkers the very next day after my diagnosis. I talked about it openly and, while going through treatment with Lupron and radiation, joked about it with them. Another co-worker had recently died of colon cancer. I knew he had cancer and wanted to express my sympathy, but I had never been told by him that he had cancer, and never been invited to speak about it, so all of our interactions were a bit strained by our seemingly mutual need to talk around this central subject. For me, openness worked out much better. Alan > Chris jiggled a thought in my brain when he said "I think more difficult was > deciding to tell my co-workers. I didn't tell them until after the surgery, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cancer? And why? > Bev A few weeks before I was dx'd with PCa I had finished Lance Armstrong's book on his battle with the beast, "It's Not About the Bike". I consider this a must read for anyone with a cancer dx and a MUST READ for men with sexually related cancer. He is completely honest about his journey and he made it very easy for me to be equally honest. Here is a man who lost his "balls" to cancer and then went on to prove SEVEN TIMES! that his are bigger than anyone's. He is a Saint and a Hero and I thank him from the bottom of my heart. Sorry about the caps but he deserves it. Buy a yellow wristband... livestrong, Tom > Chris jiggled a thought in my brain when he said "I think more difficult > was [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > cancer? And why? > Bev There is a great tome on this subject. It's called "Men are From Mars; Women are from Venus"  SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06, 6/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 Casodex added daily 07/06 Non Illegitimi Carborundum Very well said Steve. I think that hits the nail on the head. Men are just different when it comes to talking about things like this. I found that out the hard way when I tried to talk to my "friends" about my having Ca. > > Chris jiggled a thought in my brain when he said "I think more difficult > > was [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Casodex added daily 07/06 > Non Illegitimi Carborundum It's a manhood thing. It's not just cancer - it's prostate cancer. AND since most folks have very little information on PC and what they have is probably misinformation they think that PC means your manhood is gone. So no one really wants to let everyone know because it destroys the whole male image. Right????? Bev > Chris jiggled a thought in my brain when he said "I think more difficult was > deciding to tell my co-workers. I didn't tell them until after the surgery, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cancer? And why? > Bev >It's a manhood thing. It's not just cancer - it's prostate cancer. AND since >most folks have very little information on PC and what they have is probably >misinformation they think that PC means your manhood is gone. So no one >really wants to let everyone know because it destroys the whole male image. >Right????? Bev, you can't separate the "manhood" from the man. It's what and who we are. It's not something that females "get", just as females are always harping about the stuff that men don't "get" (like the asinine toilet seat thing). Oft heard female misconceptions about men: "ALL men aren't like that." Sorry, Virginia, they are if they are hetero. "Well, my BROTHER is not like that." Well, Virginia, is he hetero? "Well, my FATHER was not like that." Hate to break it to you: Oh, yes he was. It's how we are wired. Why do all male's heads turn in the same direction when a buxom blond size 4 walks by? The only ones that don't are the ones who are with their wives and want to get laid that night (or in the next week). So after PCa treatment I feel like a fraud when I flirt. Before, even though morals prevented me from jumping in the sack with my neighbor's willing wife, now it's not just the morals. it's the equipment. Does this clear things up? Or just muddy the waters more? Hubby was outnumbered in this house so he keeps the seat down - most of the time. splash :-/ Of course, I compromised and I never use one of those toilet covers. My toilets are naked so the seat stays up and does not have to be held in place. (I guess it takes two hands to steer?) And there are no seashells in my bathrooms but there is a little framed adage next to the mirror that says "Happiness is being married to your best friend". Of course, guys are going to look. We've already discussed that. Bev > >It's a manhood thing. It's not just cancer - it's prostate cancer. AND since > >most folks have very little information on PC and what they have is probably [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Does this clear things up? Or just muddy the waters more? I think that's it, Bev. But.... is it so different for women who have breast cancer? My mother had both breasts removed at age 48... and to this day, she has occasional lymphedema in her right arm... and is embarrassed that *someone will notice and know*. I was 25 at the time... and just wanted her alive. I remember telling her that her breasts were not *who she was*. She was single... and has never remarried. No matter what people think is the *right* way to handle things like this... each person handles it in his/her own frame of reference. My mother was very wrapped up in her femininity.. it was something she used to *define* herself. Since losing her breasts, she has never been the same emotionally. I understand so much better...... now.... after having gone through the prostate cancer and the impotence. Yes, I'm glad to be alive. Yes, I hope to see grandchildren someday. But... do I feel emasculated? Yes! I'm delighted for the men here who can *truly* say "I don't really give a damn. I'm just glad to be alive." I don't know if I'll ever reach that point.... or ever feel masculine again. As Doug said, I feel like a fake when I flirt or think of flirting. My wife and I talked about this after my surgery... and she talked about how difficult it was for her to elect to have her hysterectomy 15 years ago. Though we knew we wanted no more children... and though she had multiple problems related to monthly cycles and such... it was and *end*... There is something *finite* about it. It takes away a part of you.... a part you will never... ever.... have again. Best to all.... MikeH > It's a manhood thing. It's not just cancer - it's prostate cancer. AND > since [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> cancer? And why? >> Bev So it is probably a combination of things. As BA said it is the Darwin thing and finding out you are less than perfect. Then couple that with the loss of perceived manhood and that is why you guys cannot seem to talk about it. Okay, woman are from Venus, I'll admit that. We don't think the same way. But please do not feel as if you are something less than male because you have had PC. Let's face it, PC is a guy thing. When you stand in front of the mirror each morning to shave you see a man; everything is there. Okay so "it" is not watching you shave anymore, but to be honest when was the last time "it" watched you shave? (When you are 35?) You are still a man. Your DNA is still male. So now you have a glitch in your male system; you are surviving PC. But explain one thing to me because I really don't get it. You could flirt before PC even though you had no intentions of doing anything. But if you flirt now (since the equipment has a glich) then you're a fake? The way I look at it, you were a fake for flirting in the first place when you had no "moral" intentions of following through beyond the flirt. I'm sorry but I see no difference between then and now. Bev >But explain one thing to me because I really don't get it. You could flirt >before PC even though you had no intentions of doing anything. But if you >flirt now (since the equipment has a glich) then you're a fake? The way I >look at it, you were a fake for flirting in the first place when you had no >"moral" intentions of following through beyond the flirt. I'm sorry but I >see no difference between then and now. Here's the thing: deep down inside, EVERY man fantasizes about sleeping with EVERY single woman they find sexually attractive. I mean ALL of them. A certain type of man - Bill Clinton is a perfect and well known example - convert the fantasy into reality with abandon. Or, do you remember the Warren Beatty flick, "Shampoo", with the famous quote: "I f***ed 'em all." Looking at the menu all the time, constantly, 24-7-365, is wired into the male psyche. Ordering from the menu all the time requires probably a certain psychological and/or social dysfunction. The institution of marriage is supposed to put a moral lid on the libido, but is only about 40% successful these days, I understand. I, for example, am on number 3, as is my mate. We're just narcissistic baby boomers, I suppose. I.P.'s fantasy f***, the whack job Anne Coulter, has even gone so far to assert that male sexual promiscuity is latent homosexuality. I doubt that - she is skank with zero sex appeal despite a size 2 bod and Breck blond hair, since you cant tell by her viscous hate vibe that she can't achieve an orgasm. I suspect she has an axe to grind. On the contrary, the sexual predator type probably is obsessed with trying to make their partners scream in ecstasy rather than doing the "slam bam thank you m'am" routine, since being a good lay feeds the male ego. I think they worship the female body in all it's mystery and beauty, and would find kissing a scratchy face or fondling a hairy butt totally and utterly disgusting, as I do. And therefore healthily hetero. But I digress. The PCa patient ends up with both sexual dysfunction AND a diminished libido. Limp hard on, little desire. That ain't male, that's neuter. Male is oozing testosterone, scanning the horizon for a.s, with a weapon in the pants ready to jump to attention. Or bugging your wife 4 days a week for a quickie. Neuter is looking away from the menu with chagrin because the weapon is useless and unloaded. Or ignoring your wife until she points to the Vitamin V bottle and says: "It's been 2 weeks." "No sh.t, honey? I hadn't noticed." As I have said before, the latter is payback. And maybe a good thing. Did you wives REALLY like the doing- it-all-the-time thing? Or more accurately, when he wants it even though you aren't in the mood? So maybe in my case being "neutered" is good, because I was a latent Bill Clinton, on the cusp of getting into trouble with the wrong women. Now, I am not just physically faithful, but mentally as well! Now, my wife and I mutually agree on a Vitamin V evening, get out the massage oil, have a martini, smoke a fattie, put on Diana Krall, and mate like bunnies. Not as good as "intact", but not too shabby. > Now, my wife and I mutually agree on a Vitamin V evening, get out the > massage oil, have a martini, smoke a fattie, put on Diana Krall, and > mate like bunnies. Not as good as "intact", but not too shabby. Doug: Sounds like a great night to me!! But I do understand what you mean about feeling neutered. I believe that you had rad treatments, and that the sexual dysfunction comes on much later than if someone had surgery. We surgery guys take this hit right away. Talk about a rude awakening. Wow. It was an utter nightmare for me. I got so depressed that I could barely work. I could not focus or concentrate on anything for too long. I could not sleep, or even eat at times. I'd even cry when there was no one around, out of the blue and with no warning. I rarely lost it like that except when my parents had passed away. I even broke down at my GP's office during a regular check up when he started asking me questions about my mental state. I guess that he sensed me trying to hide behind my happy facade. I never felt so alone and helpless in all my life. Now I'm just am speaking for myself here. Sex did get a little better for me, although not "perfect". Sexuality does return albeit different than I felt before all of this ever happened. I'm feeling much better about myself now too than I did a year ago, really. I have do have my "ups and downs". Pun intended. I was 53 at the time and I'll soon be 55. I was doing great sexually, with no problems whatsoever. Never a health problem, and in great shape physically. Better that most 25 year olds. I don't mean to boast either, but it is the truth. I have a friend that had surgery for PCa 10 years ago and is doing great in the sex department and he's 61 now, I believe. I'm sure that sex is not exactly the same for him either, but better than no sex he says. I wish that I never ever found out what a prostate did, and what psa tests are in the way that I did. It happened non the less and there's no turning back. I think as time passes, your body, and perhaps more importantly, your mind heals. I'm not 100% there yet either, and I truly still get pissed off at times about it, but as you said, "it's not too shabby" and we both could be a whole lot worse off. B.A. >>But explain one thing to me because I really don't get it. You could flirt >>before PC even though you had no intentions of doing anything. But if you [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > sleeping with EVERY single woman they find sexually attractive. I > mean ALL of them. Men are generally animalistic when it comes to first-time associations with attractive women. I will give you that. But, fantacizing about sleeping with every woman? Not me. Maybe it's a component of monogomy, but I rarely get past envisioning bare breast or bare butts. And then only when they're shapely. I agree that men have an animalist need to spread their seed. Survival of the human race sort of thing. Woman for what ever reason seem to not have the need to mate with every male and tend to be selective. Recent studies have shown that women do tend to go for older, more stable males; older males usually have more money and are capable of feathering the nest better than their younger counterparts. OTOH, women tend to outlive men their own age so finding a younger male makes perfect sense. And on and on and on. LOL For many reasons men will look but very few follow through. What keeps a man monogamous? The list is probably a mile long starting with morals and ending with laziness. But probably the number one reason that will send a guy seriously looking is usually an unhappy marriage and it will also send many a female looking too. Women tend to talk to each other more about sex than men do (men tend to brag but never really discuss details) and women tend to read/know more about sexuality. I will agree that men tend to just appreciate a good "lay". Of course, many a man thinks he's a great lover when actually he has no clue what it is to be a good lover. A man is happy if gets to jump on, take a ride, and get off. (Am I really being this crass?) It's that animal instinct in them. I think (that is me, myself and I ) that is what hits you guys the worst is the basic animal instinct to just get it off. That is your pleasure. It is 90% physical and the only reason I'll say it is 90% and not 100% is that most guys once they are married seem to also enjoy the closeness of their partner. So PC comes along and removes most all of your joy. What do you have left? The closeness of your partner? Yes, for guys it is all about orgasm and ejaculate. (I will never know what it feels like to ejaculate and trying to explain that to me would be like me trying to explain to you what it feels like to have your milk let down while breastfeeding. One is a male thing and one is a female thing. One is sexual and one is not.) So you've lost this whole big pleasure thing when it comes to sex. As the guys out here will say, "it's ok", "it's better than nothing", "it's different", but what they really mean is that there is no ejaculate. Therefore they've lost this really big, normal, natural, animalistic component of sex. Physically an erection can be forced via drugs, a pump, or a combination of both. But there is nothing to give men that sensation of ejaculate. That only leaves orgasm. It seems to me, that most of the guys seem to think that is a diminished sensation after Tx maybe because it is coupled with ejaculate. Yet some have discovered that orgasm can be extremely pleasurable and in some ways better than before. (I don't know why.) I guess, fortunately, as men age most do find their sexual drive also slows down with each passing year. So none of us are quite what we were when we were young and willing to spend an entire night having fun. And somehow we managed to survive the next day with no sleep. So a normal male goes through Tx deals with ED and maybe two years later can begin to enjoy sex again but his sexual level has dropped two notches. Yes, woman can enjoy quickies too. Woman also have some very normal animalist desires to just mate for the sheer pleasure of the sex. And yes, guys can want it at the most unreasonable times. And if the partner is not "in the mood" - well, that should be the time to turn on the charm and put her in the mood. (Hint: woman are very touch sensitive.) For her it's just a matter of switching gears and catching up to the partner. Or there is one advantage females do have and that is they can be just a receptacle for the male. "Sure, go ahead, do you mind if I sleep through this one?" (I promise that will never happen again!) Neutered? No way. I don't buy it. Maybe you've lost your appetite for the desserts. You didn't need them anyway. Learn to appreciate what you do have and take advantage of it. PC has slowed you down, things are more planned, maybe even a little more romantic (and that is not a bad thing when it comes to your partner). Don't be afraid to talk about what you feel or don't feel. A willing partner is usually willing to do whatever it takes to make things good but that partner won't know if you don't talk about it. Things have changed and what was wonderful ten years ago doesn't make it wonderful now. I'll avoid being explicit but I will say that for us the rhythm seems to have changed. It's slower, more gentle and it takes longer. I'm not complaining. But that is us and that does not mean it is that way for someone else. Go ahead and look at the menu, you're still a man with all those natural male thoughts. Then look at what you do have and appreciate her. They say the third time's a charm. Obviously she still finds you sexy or she wouldn't be reminding you. Sorry guys, I know, I've got to stop writing tomes; it takes up ng space. Bev >I.P.'s fantasy f***, the whack job Anne Coulter< I've had fantasies about ol Anne and Katie Couric. Not too many about Janet Reno, Rosie O, or Nancy Pelosi......mmmm....Judge Judy....maybe.....LOL. Absolutely none about Hilary. Not no more. I'm just like everyone else now. I still look, but feel totally emasculated. I do flirt...don't want to get out of practice, but it's only in public where I have no chance of having to prove anything. Thanks Bev, it's a great post. It's been very interesting watching friends reactions.....actually, most have shown a lot of concern, offered to rehang the moon etc..etc.. I truly hope some degree of sexuality returns. Most days all I feel is a total lack of pleasure in any form. I have to hope that it's the ADT causing it and not something they cut out, or have heated up with RT. Being single, I'm thinking of joining an internet dating site. Putting in a profile saying I would like a relationship with absolutely no sex. I would look after them, be kind, gentle and helpful.....but don't even think of f***ing. David > I agree that men have an animalist need to spread their seed. Survival of > the human race sort of thing. Woman for what ever reason seem to not have [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > Sorry guys, I know, I've got to stop writing tomes; it takes up ng space. > Bev If you said you didn't want any - you'd probably have a million hits! Do you realize how many women over the age of 40 could care less about sex? Internet dating - that's scary. Bev > Being single, I'm thinking of joining an internet dating site. Putting > in a profile saying I would like a relationship with absolutely no sex. > I would look after them, be kind, gentle and helpful.....but don't even > think of f***ing. > > David >! Do you realize how many women over the age > of 40 could care less about sex? Don't they all wear habits, like my teachers through the 7th grade? No. And the real scary part is how many of them are only in their 30's and could care less. It's not just for post-menopausal women anymore. I'm not joking, there is a whole new breed of women out there that really do not want to be bothered with sex. Maybe it is not new, they are just more open about it. They still want a man in their life but not the sex. Bev > >! Do you realize how many women over the age > > of 40 could care less about sex? > > Don't they all wear habits, like my teachers through the 7th grade? >No. And the real scary part is how many of them are only in their 30's and >could care less. It's not just for post-menopausal women anymore. I'm not >joking, there is a whole new breed of women out there that really do not >want to be bothered with sex. Maybe it is not new, they are just more open >about it. They still want a man in their life but not the sex. Sounds like hell to me. Why would a man want to put up with a woman without sex to balance out the hassle of being bossed around and not being able to get away with being 100% self centered? After all, you can PAY somebody to come in and clean your house :-) Ouch! (Ducking the flames and the death glares from Bev and the other female readers on the n.g.) Oh, are you ever in trouble now! > Ouch! (Ducking the flames and the death glares from Bev and the other > female readers on the n.g.) After all, you > can PAY somebody to come in and clean your house :-) And that's not ALL you can pay them for:-) > >No. And the real scary part is how many of them are only in their 30's and > >could care less. It's not just for post-menopausal women anymore. I'm not [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Ouch! (Ducking the flames and the death glares from Bev and the other > female readers on the n.g.) >I agree that men have an animalist need to spread their seed. Survival of > the human race sort of thing. Woman for what ever reason seem to not have > the need to mate with every male and tend to be selective. Males tend to want descendents. Women tend to want security. The smart woman will negotiate one for the other. > OTOH, women tend to outlive men their own > age so finding a younger male makes perfect sense. And yet it is not inate. > For many reasons men will look but very few follow through. What keeps a > man > monogamous? The list is probably a mile long starting with morals and > ending > with laziness. Outside of prison, only morals, ethics and unattractiveness keep a man monogomous. > I think (that is me, myself and I ) that is what hits you guys the worst > is > the basic animal instinct to just get it off. And your point is..... Let's face it, PC is a guy thing. But explain one thing to me because I really don't get it. You could flirt before PC even though you had no intentions of doing anything. But if you flirt now (since the equipment has a glich) then you're a fake? The way I look at it, you were a fake for flirting in the first place when you had no "moral" intentions of following through beyond the flirt. I'm sorry but I see no difference between then and now. Bev ====== hi bev - when i read what you wrote, i remembered this joke and all of this tied together for a good laugh. hope you get a chuckle of two out of it..... :)) ~ curtis =========== One morning a husband returns to his lake cabin after several hours of fishing and decides to take a nap. Although not familiar with the lake, his wife decides to take the boat out. She motors out a short distance, anchors, and reads her book, enjoying the peace and quiet. Along comes a game warden in his boat. He pulls up alongside the woman and says, "Good morning Ma'am. What are you doing?" "Reading a book," she replies, (thinking, "Isn't that obvious?") "You're in a restricted fishing area," he informs her. "I'm sorry officer, but I'm not fishing, I'm reading." "Yes, but you have all the equipment. For all I know you could start at any moment. I'll have to take you in and write you up." "If you do that, I'll have to charge you with sexual assault," says the woman. "But I haven't even touched you," says the game warden. "That's true, but you have all the equipment. For all I know you could start at any moment." "Have a nice day ma'am", and he left MORAL: Never argue with a woman who reads. It's likely she can also think. knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc > Chris jiggled a thought in my brain when he said "I think more difficult was > deciding to tell my co-workers. I didn't tell them until after the surgery, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cancer? And why? > Bev I think it is different for different people. Some people are just scared by the word 'cancer' and don't want to talk about it. The wife of a friend of mine didn't want to take off from work during his recovery because she didn't want her co-workers to know about her husband's prostate cancer. Some men may consider treatment for prostate cancer as a kind of castration and they may feel their masculinity is diminished. That may make them unwilling to dicuss the specifics or even to let it be generally known. If you consider all the popular jokes about impotence and impotence drugs, such a fear may be merited in some cases. Personally, at 73, I don't worry much about such things. Also, I feel the only one I have to impress with my masculinity is my wife, and so far at least I've been able to manage that. > Chris jiggled a thought in my brain when he said "I think more difficult > was [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > cancer? And why? > Bev Some folks are embarassed discussing what they had for breakfast Bev. Especially if they put ketchup on their pancakes! SignatureJK Sinrod www.SinrodStudios.com www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com > Some folks are embarassed discussing what they had for breakfast Bev. Not Martin Howard. He would have loved that ... he had such a wonderful sense of humor. > > Some folks are embarassed discussing what they had for breakfast Bev. > > Not Martin Howard. Bev I think that society in general reacts to any serious illness as a sign of weakness or "blood in the water". People do not want to show their Achilles Heal. Maybe it has something to do with Darwin and the survival of the fittest. Maybe we are nothing more than animals that just happen to wear pants, (or skirts). B.A. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.