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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / August 2006

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Pomegranate interference with meds?

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Rich - 31 Jul 2006 21:27 GMT
The latest news seems worth pursuing but I have heard it is like
grapefruit juice and can interefere with meds. Anyone find a resource
regarding this?
Bob Anthony - 01 Aug 2006 00:12 GMT
Yes, grapefruit juice can have effects on certain meds if read. I'm not
sure just which. Pom juice, I'm not aware of any neg effects, but please
let me know what there might be and with what meds that you may
research. (I am not on a lot of meds anyway, except 10mg Crestor.)
(And I don't like grapefruit juice).

B.A.
Bob Anthony - 01 Aug 2006 00:17 GMT
> on certain meds if read

What the heck was I typing? Leave out "if read", and substitute "if taken".

B.A.
I.P. Freely - 01 Aug 2006 03:19 GMT
> I am not on a lot of meds anyway, except 10mg Crestor.)

Be alert for any unexplained muscle or joint pain or mental degradation.
These SEs are surfacing with far too much frequency.

I.P.
Bob Anthony - 01 Aug 2006 04:49 GMT
Hi I.P.

Can you elaborate a bit more? I know statins can cause certain problems
that you described. Mental degradation like typing ability maybe? Or
worse? What have you recently found out and is one statin more harmful
than others? I'd like to do it on diet and exercise alone, and I had
tried, but it still was not where my doctor would've liked it to be. (My
mom had this problem as well). Now it's pretty low with about 157 total,
81 triglycerides, 83 ldl, and 58 hdl.

B.A.
NICK - 01 Aug 2006 06:37 GMT
> Can you elaborate a bit more? I know statins can cause certain problems
> that you described. Mental degradation like typing ability maybe? Or
> worse?

Visit http://www.fda.gov  or http://wwwlrxlist.com
and search for "statin" or "crestor".
I.P. Freely - 01 Aug 2006 18:54 GMT
> Hi I.P.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> mom had this problem as well). Now it's pretty low with about 157 total,
> 81 triglycerides, 83 ldl, and 58 hdl.

I've researched it only far enough so far to convince myself of these facts:
1. Statins cause at least tens of thousands of cases of muscle and/or
joint pain, many cases severe and prolonged, some cases permanently
disabling. An incidence of 1-2% is admitted by the drug manufacturers
and openly advertised.
2. Too many such cases kill by dissolving the body's muscles, including
heart muscle. This (rhabdomyolisys) is detectable early enough for
reversibility *IF* the pt gets his or her liver tested regularly
(dissolving muscle tissue floods the liver with protein, revealed by a
simple blood test for CK) as prescribed and/or runs to a knowledgeable
doctor at the first sign of unexplained pain. I've forgotten the
incidence rate, but the problem is well documented and advertised and
every pt is supposed to be warned about it.
3. Manufacturer in-house documentation shows mental performance
impairment in some cases, but this has not been promulgated to the
public. Cases range from diminished coordination and word recall
problems to total loss of memory, with reversibility uncertain.
4. There may be slight variations in the threats among the different
brands, but because they all act in the same manner their SEs are not
expected to differ much.
5. Many websites disparage statins . . . but the same is true for
everything from deodorants to aspartame to puppies. The most credible
non-institutional site I've seen so far is
http://www.spacedoc.net/statin_side_effects.html . I'm about to order
his book. He's an aerospace physician astronaut whose memory was
reverted to the age of 13 by just weeks on statins and made it his
mission in life to expose the drugs. His story is quite convincing, but
then so are many such books, from diet gurus to L. Ron Hubbard.
6. My civilian doc says some of her statin pts do fine for many years,
then encounter severe joint pain onset. If I hadn't gotten accustomed to
fighting many aches and pains for decades ( from sports overuse), I'd
have caught mine much sooner.
7. I've consulted with three physicians about my pain. Two said drop the
statin cold turkey immediately (because they knew I had no known
cardiovascular problems, which require tapering off the statin); the
third was the orthopod I asked yesterday about statin-induced pain. His
synopsis is that its mechanism is not understood, it is very common, it
is not specifically treatable, and it USUALLY delines over time.

I've begin taking Coenzyme Q10 and L Carnitine, about the only
"treatment" I've found for the pain. CoQ10 is probably not beneficial in
healthy people, but one of statins' express functions is to suppress
CoQ10, which our bodies need. Any benefits will take months.

I'll be very curious to see whether the muscle memory and complex muscle
control I've clearly lost over the past few years -- pretty much my
statin history -- returns. Both of these are attributable to age or
statin SEs, so who knows what's going on in my case?

Years of personal experimentation had convinced me and my doctors that
my high LDL and triglycerides (TG) and low HDL were genetic, that it
took dozens of heavy aerobic exercise per week for months (I was happy
to oblige during windsurfing season, but not in the winter) plus a
spartan diet to have even a mild effect on my lipids. Even when that got
my BP down to 95/65 and my pulse into the 40s, my LDL/HDL/TG still ran a
borderline 190/40/150. Statins achieved much better numbers, but are
apparently not worth the SEs in my case.

I haven't researched statins enough to see what SE incidence may be
realistic, whether statins harm only the admitted few percent or in
reality harm many more. The drugs work near miracles on many health
issues, so are great for those who tolerate them well.

I.P.
Bob Anthony - 01 Aug 2006 21:39 GMT
I.P.

Thanks for the follow up answers and the information. I'm due for a
blood work up anyway. (Psa not being one of them yet) I'll pay close
attention.

B.A.
LPa - 05 Aug 2006 19:02 GMT
snip...

>I've researched it only far enough so far to convince myself of these facts:
>1. Statins cause at least tens of thousands of cases of muscle and/or
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>incidence rate, but the problem is well documented and advertised and
>every pt is supposed to be warned about it.

>6. My civilian doc says some of her statin pts do fine for many years,
>then encounter severe joint pain onset. If I hadn't gotten accustomed to
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>synopsis is that its mechanism is not understood, it is very common, it
>is not specifically treatable, and it USUALLY delines over time.

I have used a statin (Zarator from Parke-Davis) for a couple of years
with very good results on lowering cholesterol.

Then I started having some weird symptoms (kind of "scratching" inside
the thorax). GP tested me for anything he could think of over some two
months to no avail. Finally, as a last resort, he insisted I stopped
the only medicine I was taking at that time (Zarator) and guess what:
after a couple of weeks those symptoms went away and never came back
(and I never used Zarator again...).

Actually, if you read the potential side effects of Zarator on the
leaflet you are scared to death!

LPa
I.P. Freely - 05 Aug 2006 20:16 GMT
> I have used a statin (Zarator from Parke-Davis) for a couple of years
> with very good results on lowering cholesterol.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Actually, if you read the potential side effects of Zarator on the
> leaflet you are scared to death!

Which is why it's important to understand not only the potential SEs but
their likelihoods, their detection, and their treatments. I blamed my
muscle and joint pain on too much gym and/or play time, letting them go
too long before slapping my palm against my forehead and saying, "THE
STATINS!". The three doctors I've consulted so far concur that it was
the statins, and say they're seeing far too many statin pts with these
symptoms to represent just the couple of percent the drug mfrs admit to.

My statin SEs have disabled me far more, and caused far more pain, than
my PC or its tx SEs have so far. Despite its profound improvement in my
lipid profile, I doubt I'll try statins again . . . certainly not until
my pain stops. And I'd be wary of combining pomegranate juice use with
statin use until the apparent conflict regarding their interference is
resolved.

I.P.
NickySantoro - 01 Aug 2006 00:23 GMT
>The latest news seems worth pursuing but I have heard it is like
>grapefruit juice and can interefere with meds. Anyone find a resource
>regarding this?
Google "pomegranate medication interaction" w/o the quote marks. It
turned up a few references to a Japanese study indicating it might be
similar to grapefruit juice in that respect.
FWIW
YMMV
I.P. Freely - 01 Aug 2006 03:15 GMT
> The latest news seems worth pursuing but I have heard it is like
> grapefruit juice and can interefere with meds. Anyone find a resource
> regarding this?

I read just the opposite.

I.P.
Vanilla Tooth - 01 Aug 2006 19:16 GMT
>> The latest news seems worth pursuing but I have heard it is like
>> grapefruit juice and can interefere with meds. Anyone find a resource
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> I.P.

Doesn't grapefruit juice merely enhance the absorption of certain meds?
Even if POM juice does that what's so bad about that? Our absorption is
usually sub=par anyway.
ron - 01 Aug 2006 20:19 GMT
Vanilla Tooth wrote...snip...
> Doesn't grapefruit juice merely enhance the absorption of certain meds?
> Even if POM juice does that what's so bad about that? Our absorption is
> usually sub=par anyway.

The Cytochrome P-450 metabolic pathway involving the intestines and
liver, clears many drugs from our system.  Substances that enhance
P-450 activity (St. John's Wort) or deactivate P-450 (grapefruit juice)
will cause the serum concentartion of certain medications (taxanes,
hormonal treatments, heart medications, statins, sleeping medications,
etc) to be lower or higher than what a doctor may have targeted when
the prescription was written.  It is important to inform your doc of
any herbal remedies you are taking or grapefruit juice consumption...ron
I.P. Freely - 01 Aug 2006 20:38 GMT
>>> The latest news seems worth pursuing but I have heard it is like
>>> grapefruit juice and can interefere with meds. Anyone find a resource
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Even if POM juice does that what's so bad about that? Our absorption is
> usually sub=par anyway.

GJ is eliminated from the body via the same enzyme that rids us of
statins. Drinking a quart or more of GJ daily uses up that enzyme so
there's little left to eliminate the statin, allowing the blood level of
the statin to build to higher levels, as though the person was taking
higher levels of the statin. This process is under evaluation as a means
of achieving higher effective statin doses with less statin, desirable
in part because GJ is far cheaper than statins.

This has been documented since the 1980s, which us why I fired my idiot
 doctor and reported him when he refused to even look it up. Other
citrus juices do not consume this enzyme, and I saw one report in some
magazine that neither does pomegranate juice.

I.P.
 
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