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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / July 2006

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Post Op psa level

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dakine - 29 Jul 2006 05:47 GMT
on tuesday i had my first PSA level done since i had a radical
retropubic prostatectomy done in early march. the current level is
0.1...it seems that this level should be 0, since i have no gland to
secrete any antigen. does this mean that there has been metastasis and
i still have cancer and that it will find a spot to stop and grow? i
wont be able to ask my doc till monday and dont want to wait all
weekend for a response. tks and aloha
Buck - 29 Jul 2006 06:01 GMT
My understanding is that 0.1 is the lowest level that can be measured
and less than 0.1 is the statistical equivalent of zero.
Steve Jordan - 29 Jul 2006 07:54 GMT
On July 28, Buck replied to "dakine":
> My understanding is that 0.1 is the lowest level that can be measured
> and less than 0.1 is the statistical equivalent of zero.
>  
It is likely the lowest level that the sensitivity of the particular
test will measure.

The ultrasensitive PSA test results can be reported as low as "<0.01".

In and of itself, one PSA test means little. It's the results of a
series that give one a basis upon which to judge how things are going.

Relax.

Regards,

Steve J
Steve Kramer - 29 Jul 2006 11:57 GMT
> on tuesday i had my first PSA level done since i had a radical
> retropubic prostatectomy done in early march. the current level is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> wont be able to ask my doc till monday and dont want to wait all
> weekend for a response. tks and aloha

The first PSA you want to see is < 0.1 (less than 1/10th of a nanogram).
For assays that are not ultra-sensitive, that is considered "virtually
undetectable".  You're doing well!

It would be a very good idea for you to start researching.  Dr. Patrick
Walsh's Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer and Dr. Peter Scardino's Prostate
Book are good places to start.  www.phoenix5.org is a good website.  All
these will give you a fundamental understanding and expectations.  Then you
can go on to bigger and better research.  This is a lifelong and
life-altering disease and you are best able to handle it if you're prepared.

Welcome to the family.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06, 6/06
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
Casodex added daily 07/06
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

ron - 29 Jul 2006 14:00 GMT
> on tuesday i had my first PSA level done since i had a radical
> retropubic prostatectomy done in early march. the current level is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> wont be able to ask my doc till monday and dont want to wait all
> weekend for a response. tks and aloha

There are other organs in addition to the prostate that produce very
small amounts of PSA, so PSA will never be "0"; even women have
measurable PSA's.  Did someone call you on the phone and tell you your
results or did you receive a copy of the test results?  If the latter,
is there a "<" (less than) symbol by the zero as in "<0.1", and what
test does the report say was used?  The standard test cannot read
accurately below 0.1 ng/ml of PSA, so the "<0.1" is the best result
(considered undetectable) you can achieve with this test.  As others
have mentioned the ultrasensitive test can read lower (<0.04, <0.01 and
<0.003, depending on the test and the lab).  If the result was reported
as "0.1" this would mean that some PSA was actually detected.  But even
in this case, sometimes the lab will make an error on the report by
ommitting the "<" symbol...Best wishes and good health, ron
Tee Doubleyou - 29 Jul 2006 18:59 GMT
>>There are other organs in addition to the prostate that produce very
>small amounts of PSA, so PSA will never be "0"; even women have
>measurable PSA's.
----------------------cut---------------------------------------------
..Best wishes and good health, ron

What are those "other organs"? Can you name a few, please?
Tad
--
Verba volant, scripta manent.
ron - 29 Jul 2006 19:42 GMT
Tad...PSA has been found to be present in very low levels in epithelial
cells of the trachea, thyroid gland, mammary gland, salivary gland,
pancreatic exocrine glands, jejunum, ileum, epididymis, seminal vesicle
and urethra, as well as in Leydig cells and epidermis pituitary tissue
and adrenal tissue.  It is found in many tumors (e.g. lung, colon,
ovary, liver, kidney, adrenal and paroria).  As expected from the
above, PSA has also been found in women (breast and ovarian tissue).
PSA in women can occasionally exceed 0.1 ng/ml depending upon BCa
status, age, time in the menstrual cycle, etc...Best wishes and good
health, ron

> >>There are other organs in addition to the prostate that produce very
> >small amounts of PSA, so PSA will never be "0"; even women have
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> --
> Verba volant, scripta manent.
Steve Kramer - 29 Jul 2006 21:56 GMT
Hey, Tee Dub!  Haven't heard from you in a long while.  How's the PSA as you
inch towards the 3-year mark?

I'm going to read forward.  If your question isn't answered, I'll look it
up.  I know right where to go in Walsh's book.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06, 6/06
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
Casodex added daily 07/06
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

>>>There are other organs in addition to the prostate that produce very
>>small amounts of PSA, so PSA will never be "0"; even women have
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> --
> Verba volant, scripta manent.
Dennis D - 30 Jul 2006 10:13 GMT
>on tuesday i had my first PSA level done since i had a radical
>retropubic prostatectomy done in early march. the current level is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>wont be able to ask my doc till monday and dont want to wait all
>weekend for a response. tks and aloha

The surgeon could also have left some benign prostate tissue behind.
This could result in the production of a small but detectable PSA
level of 0.1.  My own PSA has been 0.1 or 0.2 over a three year period
following RP.

Dennis
Bill - 31 Jul 2006 16:14 GMT
But, Dakine, the bottom line is that if your PSA result was actually .1
(w/o the <), that is detecable PSA and is not what you want to have. It
does NOT mean you have a recurrence at all, much less metastatic
disease, but it is a signal to watch it carefully. Insist on
ultrasenstive testing and get a copy of the lab result - do not rely on
verbal reporting.

The adrenal glands alss produce PSA. The existence of benign sources is
why most doctors do not deem a biological failure until .2.

Bill Denton
RP 2/12/02
PSA .93
Memphis

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