Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / January 2007
No indication nutrition helps fight cancer
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I.P. Freely - 19 Jul 2006 23:48 GMT From WebMD at http://health.webmd.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/eozT0LNg230CBe0omh0E3 :
July 18, 2006 -- Cancer patients spend billions a year on vitamins and dietary supplements, but there is no proof that these products -- or other nutrition strategies -- are effective for treating or preventing the disease, a new analysis shows.
Researchers who reviewed 59 previous studies assessing a wide range of diet-related approaches found little evidence that specific vitamins, supplements, or foods had any impact on disease-free survival, mortality, or cancer recurrence.
The impact of diet on cancer was either disappointing or could not be determined because most studies conducted to date have been of poor quality, the researchers concluded.
"There is no evidence that dietary modification by cancer patients improves survival and benefits disease prognosis," they wrote.
Antibiotics vs. Diet Supplements
The analysis was one of two reports on nutrition and cancer, published in the July 10 issue of the Journal of the National Cancer Institute.
In an original study from the National Cancer Institute and China's Peking University, researchers assessed various interventions thought to prevent stomach cancer or precancerous lesions in Chinese people of Linqu County in Shandong Province, where stomach cancer causes 42% of cancer deaths.
The long-time use (around seven years) of either garlic or vitamin E, vitamin C, and selenium supplements did not result in a reduction in precancerous lesions or in stomach cancers. But a two-week course of antibiotics given to kill Helicobacter pylori bacteria in the stomach was associated with a reduction in precancerous lesions.
H. pylori infection is known to be a major cause of stomach ulcers, and it is believed to play a critical role in the development of stomach cancer.
Researchers concluded that the H. pylori treatment reduced the occurrence of precancerous stomach lesions, which could prevent stomach cancers.
Studies Show No Impact
The analysis of previous nutrition and cancer studies included 25 studies in patients with cancer and 34 studies in patients with precancerous conditions.
Steven Thomas, MD, PhD, and colleagues from the U.K.'s University of Bristol concluded that the vast majority of the studies they looked at were poorly designed or poorly executed.
With this caveat, they reported that none of the interventions studied appeared to have an impact on cancer one way or the other.
Specifically, vitamin A supplementation did not appear to be beneficial in studies involving patients with lung, cervical, head and neck, and skin cancers, and leukemia.
Other studies examined multivitamins use by patients with a variety of cancers: beta carotene supplementation in patients with skin, stomach, cervical, mouth, and colorectal cancers; fiber for colorectal cancer; and green tea for esophageal cancer.
"We did not find any conclusive benefit or harm for any of these interventions," Thomas tells WebMD.
More Study Needed
But that doesn't mean eating a healthy diet with plenty of fruits and vegetables is not important for people with cancer or for cancer survivors, he adds.
"People with cancer are increasingly living longer as medical treatments improve. We can certainly say that healthy diets are important for general well-being. But it is more problematic to say that a healthy diet is beneficial in treating cancer. There is some evidence that this is the case, but it is not conclusive."
Nutrition and cancer researcher John A. Baron, MD, of Dartmouth Medical School, tells WebMD that the studies to date have tended to identify dietary interventions that do not benefit cancer patients.
"We actually do know a lot, but it is mostly about what doesn't work," he says. "We now know that antioxidant and fiber supplements are not protective against colorectal cancer, for example."
In an editorial accompanying the study, Baron wrote that while the studies examining diet and cancer have tended to be negative, there are some "hopeful nuggets of progress" in the search for useful diet plans.
He tells WebMD that his own studies strongly suggest that dietary calcium may help prevent colorectal cancer.
"I do believe that we will have more answers in the near future, but we do need better studies to give us these answers," he says.
I.P.
MAS - 20 Jul 2006 00:16 GMT IP,
There is precedence that a low fat diet lowers PSA.
The lower the PSA, the less likely that a recurrence happens.
GD
> From WebMD at http://health.webmd.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/eozT0LNg230CBe0omh0E3 > [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > > I.P. I.P. Freely - 20 Jul 2006 02:35 GMT > IP, > > There is precedence that a low fat diet lowers PSA. > > The lower the PSA, the less likely that a recurrence happens. Better run tell the guys who conducted this metastudy.
I.P.
glassman - 20 Jul 2006 06:01 GMT > IP, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > GD Documentation?
 Signature JK Sinrod www.SinrodStudios.com www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com
MAS - 22 Jul 2006 05:51 GMT When I back to see the Medical Oncologist I will ask. When I was in his office and he was trying to determine why PSA was undetectible. Low fat diet came up in the conversation. He called another researcher and confirmed that test show positive results for a decreased PSA.
The research setting is Methodist Research Institute; newly created when Methodist Hospital became no longer associated with Baylor College of Medicine.
GD
>> IP, >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Documentation? Bob Anthony - 20 Jul 2006 05:26 GMT Well then, I'm going with some Johnny Walker on ice instead of going to to the vitamins! Freak it! You always said that this may be the case (nutrition/supplements mean little to prevent cancer) and explains much of the frustration that some of us Dudley Do-rights are experiencing now. You know, before the PCa surgery I had to go for a angiogram because of some artifact that they saw on my EKG and then some other artifact that was on the stress test. All were false positives. (Too bad the Pca wasn't). The doctor who preformed the angiogram said to keep up whatever I was doing because my heart was clean with no plaque or blockages of any kind. Now I know. More Johnny!! ;)
B.A.
I.P. Freely - 20 Jul 2006 06:28 GMT > You always said that this may be the case (nutrition/supplements mean > little to prevent cancer) Well, all I REALLY said was that there's no PROOF they help. This metastudy simply reinforces it.
> and explains much of the frustration that some > of us Dudley Do-rights are experiencing now. I don't feel frustrated . . . much. My nutrition changes two decades ago, with one or two exceptions, were not aimed at cancer (fortunately, it seems). What they WERE aimed at, seem to have worked well at, and still are believed to accomplish is the OTHER benefits, such as cardiovascular health and its markers, control of my irritable bowel syndrome (misdiagnosed anyway, I believe), pulmonary health, athletic ability and endurance, OA mitigation, immune system health (unless you wanna get picky and count two cancers; otherwise I've had one cold and one case of flu in my life), and insulin system health (I eat tons of carbs -- as athletes must -- and my blood sugar and insulin control are excellent). Several physicians, personal trainers, and recently a pro sports metabolic analyst have all said my physiology beats that of most college kids.
I don't regret one lost donut or slab of bacon, and have "worked out" only for the past few winters and only moderately and sporadically until last winter (in which I added about 10 pounds, as intended). Besides a couple of nuisances like wearing pads and having lousy erections, I still do just about anything I want to do, and one hell of a lot more than most of the 20-somethings I windsurf with.
As for food, I eat like a king . . . a king with a good nutritionist in the palace. Almost all I (usually) avoid is sat and trans fats -- which taste like so much grease to me now anyway -- and white bread in its many forms.
And from the sounds of it, you are in better shape than I. If we can just beat this frigging, probably genetic, cancer thing, our vigor and lives will far outlast those of the general population.
Rejoice . . . if you live that long.
I.P.
Bob Anthony - 20 Jul 2006 14:10 GMT I hear you. I was just being a bit facetious. I basically eat similarly like you for most of the reasons that you have stated. I generally feel better and avoid the extra pounds by doing so too. The weight that I do want to add is in the form of muscle and results in added strength. Although I am far from a professional athlete, I too can hold my own (no pun intended) with some of the younglings. I'm sure you're probably right too about being predisposed to the maladies that we have. (Just the Pca misadventure in my case). I posted this in a previous thread. I have a brother in law that is 5'10 and weighs in at 366 lbs. The guy eats everything and anything. Mostly crap like cookies and cakes because his wife bakes a lot. She is also huge, although not quite as large. They had to weigh him at a location that weighs stones because the doctor's office had a scale that just goes to 350 lbs. (NO kidding about this). His LDL, HDL, Triglycerides and his PSA at 64 years of age are all excellent!! He has had two hip replacements though because of the effect that gravity has on his joints. He huffs and puffs around like an old locomotive just to get out of a chair and walk a few feet. I'm sure that his cardio condition despite his numbers could be much better. But go figure!! I go nuts over stuff like this! As once said, live long and prosper, I.P.
B.A.
Joe Price - 20 Jul 2006 06:32 GMT I've also seen a study that concluded that a "positive attitude" does nothing to improve cancer survival rates (but it does make one a more pleasant sick person for others to be around) and I've seen a study published that concludes that knowing others are praying for you correlates well with worse outcome - though as I recall, that study involved heart patients, not cancer patients.
Since it is easy to do, and since the studies were not all well conducted, I'll stick with a few of the "can't hurt and might help" simple dietary/supplement modifications - pomegranate juice, Vitamin E (200 mgm) and Selenium (200 micro gm) but I do think this sort of thing is akin to peeing on a forest fire.
> From WebMD at http://health.webmd.com/cgi-bin21/DM/y/eozT0LNg230CBe0omh0E3 > [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > > I.P. Bob Anthony - 20 Jul 2006 14:18 GMT You'd figure that antioxidants would help prevent cell oxidation, thus help prevent free radicals, thus help prevent cell damage, and thus help prevent cancer. Or maybe I have it backwards?
B.A.
Bill - 20 Jul 2006 15:54 GMT I don't know about this one but in several similar studies they used dosages that were far below what is generally considered necessary to fight cancer. E.g. a study that says that the D (probably not the right type anyway) in a multi-vitamin has no effect does not mean that taking 6000 IUD per day has no effect.
Bill Denton RP 2/12/02 PSA .93 Memphis
Matti Narkia - 28 Jul 2006 13:00 GMT >I don't know about this one but in several similar studies they used >dosages that were far below what is generally considered necessary to >fight cancer. E.g. a study that says that the D (probably not the right >type anyway) in a multi-vitamin has no effect does not mean that taking >6000 IUD per day has no effect. There is a small pilot study showing that in patients with PSA relapse after definitive therapy 2000 IU of regular vitamin D3 daily either stabilized PSA or decreased its rate of rise:
Woo TC, Choo R, Jamieson M, Chander S, Vieth R. Pilot study: potential role of vitamin D (Cholecalciferol) in patients with PSA relapse after definitive therapy. Nutr Cancer. 2005;51(1):32-6. PMID: 15749627 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=1574962> <http://www.leaonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207%2Fs15327914nc5101_5>
"Abstract: When local treatments for prostate cancer have failed, and prostate-specific antigen (PSA) rises in the absence of symptoms, there is little consensus as to the best management strategy. Calcitriol has been shown to prolong the doubling time of PSA in this context, but near-toxic doses are required. We investigated the effect of the nutrient vitamin D (cholecalciferol), a biochemical precursor of calcitriol, on PSA levels and the rate of rise of PSA in these patients. Fifteen patients were given 2,000 IU (50 µg) of cholecalciferol daily and monitored prospectively every 2-3 mo. In 9 patients, PSA levels decreased or remained unchanged after the commencement of cholecalciferol. This was sustained for as long as 21 mo. Also, there was a statistically significant decrease in the rate of PSA rise after administration of cholecalciferol (P = 0.005) compared with that before cholecalciferol. The median PSA doubling time increased from 14.3 mo prior to commencing cholecalciferol to 25 mo after commencing cholecalciferol. Fourteen of 15 patients had a prolongation of PSA doubling time after commencing cholecalciferol. There were no side effects reported by any patient. Further study is needed to confirm this finding and to explore the potential therapeutic benefit of nutrient vitamin D in prostate cancer."
 Signature Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia - 28 Jul 2006 15:08 GMT >>I don't know about this one but in several similar studies they used >>dosages that were far below what is generally considered necessary to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] ><http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=1574962> ><http://www.leaonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207%2Fs15327914nc5101_5> In another thread today I mentioned that too large quantities of some dietary fatty acids such as omega-6 arachidonic acid (AA) and omega-3 alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) could be harmful for prostate cancer patients.
Dr. Charles Myers is a prominent prostate cancer researcher and a prostate cancer patient, diagnosed 1998. Based on his research and on his personal experience he strongly believes that the diet can make difference in prostate cancer. His dietary recommendations can be seen on the web pages
DR. CHARLES MYERS visits Sydney <http://www.prostate.org.au/myers.htm>
Prostate Forum <http://www.prostateforum.com/>
and
Eating Your Way to Better Health-The Prostate Forum Nutrition Guide by Charles E. (Snuffy) Myers, Jr., M.D. Sara Sgarlat Steck, R.T. and Rose Sgarlat Myers, PT., Ph.D. <http://www.prostateforum.com/nutrition.htm>
Other potentially useful links about prostate cancer and nutrition:
Nutrition and Lifestyle - Prostate Cancer Foundation <http://www.prostatecancerfoundation.org/site/c.itIWK2OSG/b.47431/k.8A27/Nutritio n_and_Lifestyle.htm>
Changing Your Dietary Habits to help fight prostate cancer - Prostate Cancer Foundation <http://www.prostatecancerfoundation.org/site/pp.asp?c=itIWK2OSG&b=68240>
Nutrition and Prostate Cancer (Prostate Cancer Foundation) - Large PDF file <http://www.nlm.nih.gov/cgi/medlineplus/leavemedplus.pl?theURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2 Eprostatecancerfoundation%2Eorg%2Fatf%2Fcf%2F%7B705B3273%2DF2EF%2D4EF6%2DA653%2D E15C5D8BB6B1%7D%2FNutrition%5FGuide%2Epdf>
Chan JM, Gann PH, Giovannucci EL. Role of diet in prostate cancer development and progression. J Clin Oncol. 2005 Nov 10;23(32):8152-60. Review. PMID: 16278466 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.jco.org/cgi/content/abstract/23/32/8152>
Miano L. [Mediterranean diet, micronutrients and prostate carcinoma: a rationale approach to primary prevention of prostate cancer] Arch Ital Urol Androl. 2003 Sep;75(3):166-78. Review. Italian. PMID: 14661397 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=14661397>
Trichopoulou A, Lagiou P, Kuper H, Trichopoulos D. Cancer and Mediterranean dietary traditions. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2000 Sep;9(9):869-73. Review. PMID: 11008902 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/9/9/869>
My very brief summary about these sites and some other evidence;
- Reduce or eliminate the consumption of red meat (contains arachidonic acid and saturated fat).
- Reduce or eliminate high-fat, farm-raised fish, because they contain too much saturated fat and arachidonic acid. Eat wild fish and seafood instead.
- Eat plenty of vegetables including among others beans, peas, lentils, broccoli and other cruciferous vegetables. Include also plants or plant based products, which are known act as inhibitors to 5-lipoxygenase enzyme, such as Boswellia serrata a.k.a.frankincense (Boswellic acid)cocoa, GLA (from evening primrose oil for example; GLA could cause accumulation of AA in serum, so it should always be taken with EPA or fish oil which prevents this), quercetin, dried or semi-dried qinger powder, curcumin, propolis, milk thistle extract silymarin and its ingredient silibinin (silybin), resveratrol (from red wine), garlic, onions and saw palmetto berry extracts
- Eat fruit and berries.
- Consider soy foods.
- Reduce dairy products
- Avoid eggs (contain arachidonic acid)
- Use only olive oil, eliminate all other oils and oil based products.
- Use garlic, spices and flavoring rather than cooking oils whenever possible.
- Use tomatoes and tomato based products (contain lycopene).
- Drink pomegranate juice daily.
- Drink green or white tea daily.
- Make sure you get enough selenium, vitamin E and vitamin D (at least 2000 IU of vitamin D3/d). Take supplements, if necessary.
- Limit your alcohol use to 1-2 glasses of red wine daily (_low_ consumption of red wine may be beneficial due to its ingredient resveratrol)
 Signature Matti Narkia
Juhana Harju - 31 Jul 2006 17:26 GMT ::: I don't know about this one but in several similar studies they used ::: dosages that were far below what is generally considered necessary [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] : consumption of red wine may be beneficial due to its ingredient : resveratrol) What do you think is the difference between foods that prevent prostate cancer compared to foods that are helpful in the treatment of prostate cancer?
 Signature Juhana
Matti Narkia - 31 Jul 2006 19:03 GMT >::: I don't know about this one but in several similar studies they used >::: dosages that were far below what is generally considered necessary [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >cancer compared to foods that are helpful in the treatment of prostate >cancer? I think we can only speculate about that. My opinion currently is that mostly same foods and nutrients could be used, except that in the treatment I would probably use wider wariety of them to get better synergy advantages, and larger doses, when the effect is expected to increase with dose. That could become expensive, so I wouldn't spend that much in prevention, at least if I don't have a high risk. In the treatment you also have to be stricter, because you already had/have cancer, whose growth could accelerate rapidly, if you take too much of wrong kind of food. One example is for example ALA. If I don't have prostate cancer and I'm not in a high risk group, perhaps I could use canola/rapeseed oil, at least occasionally, but if I already had prostate cancer, I wouldn't, bexause about 10% of it is ALA. Another example is Boswella serrata as supplement. It's perhaps the best or at least one of the best herbal 5-lipoxygenase inhibitors, but it could have side effects, for example suppression of immune system, so I wouldn't use it as prevention.
 Signature Matti Narkia
soares.glaucio@gmail.com - 15 Aug 2006 01:22 GMT Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it studies species abundant in the researchers' own region. What do we know about the fatty acid content of fish in South Atlantic warmer waters? Are there comparison tables?
thanks
> >>I don't know about this one but in several similar studies they used > >>dosages that were far below what is generally considered necessary to [quoted text clipped - 115 lines] > consumption of red wine may be beneficial due to its ingredient > resveratrol) Matti Narkia - 15 Aug 2006 12:43 GMT >Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it studies >species abundant in the researchers' own region. What do we know about >the fatty acid content of fish in South Atlantic warmer waters? Are >there comparison tables? Warm water fish have less omega-3 fatty acids than cold water fish, but I have not been able to find any online source about their exact omega-3 content. If you think that you cannot get enough omega-3s from local fish, you could always use fish oil supplements or canned fish or both.
 Signature Matti Narkia
I.P. Freely - 15 Aug 2006 12:50 GMT >> Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it studies >> species abundant in the researchers' own region. What do we know about [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > local fish, you could always use fish oil supplements or canned fish > or both. And nuts, esp walnuts. Great on cereal and salads.
I.P.
Steve Kramer - 15 Aug 2006 13:38 GMT >> Warm water fish have less omega-3 fatty acids than cold water fish, >> but I have not been able to find any online source about their exact [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> > And nuts, esp walnuts. Great on cereal and salads. But, rough on diverticula.
I.P. Freely - 15 Aug 2006 14:38 GMT >>> Warm water fish have less omega-3 fatty acids than cold water fish, >>> but I have not been able to find any online source about their exact [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > But, rough on diverticula. Yep.
OTOH, a doc diagnosed me with diverticulosis >20 years ago, and told me never to eat any more nuts or seeds, especially strawberries. Since then I've eaten more than 10 million strawberry seeds, well over a thousand jars of extra crunchy peanut butter, buckets of pumpkin and sunflower seeds, and over a quarter ton of walnuts, w/o one problem.
I.P.
Steve Kramer - 15 Aug 2006 19:58 GMT >>>> Warm water fish have less omega-3 fatty acids than cold water fish, >>>> but I have not been able to find any online source about their exact [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > jars of extra crunchy peanut butter, buckets of pumpkin and sunflower > seeds, and over a quarter ton of walnuts, w/o one problem. I got a good doctor. He only restricts me to peanuts and larger nuts and popcorn.
Matti Narkia - 15 Aug 2006 14:00 GMT >>> Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it studies >>> species abundant in the researchers' own region. What do we know about [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> >And nuts, esp walnuts. Great on cereal and salads. Although walnuts are excellent food and good for the heart, I'm a bit hesitant to recommend them to prostate cancer patients, because omega-3 in them is alpha-linolenic acid, which has been associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer in several, but not all, of those epidemiological studies, where associations of dietary fats with prostate cancer have been investigated.
 Signature Matti Narkia
I.P. Freely - 15 Aug 2006 14:48 GMT > Although walnuts are excellent food and good for the heart, I'm a bit > hesitant to recommend them to prostate cancer patients, because > omega-3 in them is alpha-linolenic acid, which has been associated > with an increased risk of prostate cancer in several, but not all, of > those epidemiological studies, where associations of dietary fats with > prostate cancer have been investigated. Would you say the walnut/alpha-linoleic/PC connection is sound enough that we PC pts should reduce or eliminate nuts for that reason, or is the link merely suspicious enough that walnuts are not encouraged?
I get so discouraged about every new finding that says we must reduce or eliminate just about everything from our diets that I almost -- JUST JOKING -- want to just start eating ribs and Haagen Daaz for every meal.
I.P.
Matti Narkia - 15 Aug 2006 14:58 GMT >> Although walnuts are excellent food and good for the heart, I'm a bit >> hesitant to recommend them to prostate cancer patients, because [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >that we PC pts should reduce or eliminate nuts for that reason, or is >the link merely suspicious enough that walnuts are not encouraged? The link is only statistical, so causality has no been proved. But until more is known about alpha-linolenic acid/PCa conncetion, perhaps high consumption of walnuts should not be encouraged for PCa patients. Other nuts are probably OK, because they contain less or no alpha-linoleic acid.
 Signature Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia - 15 Aug 2006 15:13 GMT >>> Although walnuts are excellent food and good for the heart, I'm a bit >>> hesitant to recommend them to prostate cancer patients, because [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Other nuts are probably OK, because they contain less or no >alpha-linoleic acid. alpha-linoleNic
 Signature Matti Narkia
Juhana Harju - 15 Aug 2006 21:46 GMT :::: Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it studies :::: species abundant in the researchers' own region. What do we know [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] : those epidemiological studies, where associations of dietary fats with : prostate cancer have been investigated. Walnuts are also very high in myricetin, a flavonoid which is associated with reduced prostate cancer insidence, and gamma-tocopherol, an isomer of vitamin E, which is also associated with reduced prostate cancer probably due to its antiinflammatory effects.
 Signature Juhana
"All facts are theory-laden" - Paul Feyerabend
Matti Narkia - 15 Aug 2006 23:11 GMT >:::: Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it studies >:::: species abundant in the researchers' own region. What do we know [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >vitamin E, which is also associated with reduced prostate cancer probably >due to its antiinflammatory effects. Remember that you are talking to cancer patients. Do you have cancer? We are not talking casually about prevention here, but about people, whose lifes could be endangered by careless advice. Do you want them to gamble on that flavonoids and gamma-tocopherol in walnuts would possiböy offset the the potential harmful effect of ALA? Flavonoids can be obtained from other vegetables and one can get more gamma-tocopherol from supplements tahn from walnuts without taking any ALA at all.
 Signature Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia - 15 Aug 2006 23:43 GMT >>:::: Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it studies >>:::: species abundant in the researchers' own region. What do we know [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >gamma-tocopherol from supplements tahn from walnuts without taking any >ALA at all. The article
DR. CHARLES MYERS visits Sydney Prostate Cancer Foundation of Australia <http://www.prostate.org.au/myers.htm>
cites prominent prostate cancer researcher and prostate cancer patient Dr. Charles Myers as follows:
"Dr Myers believes there is evidence linking alpha linolenic acid (the omega 3 fatty acid in flax seed oil) with increased metastatic prostate cancer. Laboratory tests have shown when this substance is placed in contact with live prostate cancer cells, the rate of growth of the cancer cells increases by up to three hundred percent. A similar result was obtained in a test of 15,000 doctors reported in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute in 1994."
 Signature Matti Narkia
Juhana Harju - 16 Aug 2006 06:10 GMT :::::: Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it studies :::::: species abundant in the researchers' own region. What do we know [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] : possiböy offset the the potential harmful effect of ALA? Flavonoids : can be obtained from other vegetables I understand your point but is there any higher source of myricetin in any other food source? I think the answer is no. Walnuts are an exceptionally high source. It is quite possible that the high myricetin intake would offset the effect of ALA. This is just speculation, though.
Also, I am not giving any direct advice here but rather I am discussing about the issue hoping that an intelligent conclusion could be found.
: and one can get more : gamma-tocopherol from supplements tahn from walnuts without taking any : ALA at all. As you yourself have written elsewhere the adverse effects of higher ALA are probably caused by heating of oils. Heating in turn causes oxidation of ALA and these rancid oils are a possible reason why higher ALA is harmful to prostate.
 Signature Juhana
"All facts are theory-laden" - Paul Feyerabend
Matti Narkia - 16 Aug 2006 13:17 GMT >:::::: Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it studies >:::::: species abundant in the researchers' own region. What do we know [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >high source. It is quite possible that the high myricetin intake would >offset the effect of ALA. This is just speculation, though. Has myricetin any documented effect on established prostate cancer? I doubt it, and I certainly wouldn't risk taking ALA with it just because of your speculations about myricetin.
>Also, I am not giving any direct advice here but rather I am discussing >about the issue hoping that an intelligent conclusion could be found. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >and these rancid oils are a possible reason why higher ALA is harmful to >prostate. That was just my speculation and many disagree with me, apparently also Dr. Myers.
 Signature Matti Narkia
Juhana Harju - 16 Aug 2006 13:58 GMT :::::::: Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it :::::::: studies species abundant in the researchers' own region. What [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] : doubt it, and I certainly wouldn't risk taking ALA with it just : because of your speculations about myricetin. Here is one /in vitro/ study:
Nutr Cancer. 2000;38(1):116-22. Flavonoids suppress androgen-independent human prostate tumor proliferation. Knowles LM, Zigrossi DA, Tauber RA, Hightower C, Milner JA. Graduate Program in Nutrition, Nutrition Department, Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802, USA.
The present studies compared the effects of selected bioflavonoids on the proliferation of androgen-independent human prostatic tumor cells (PC-3). Complete growth retardation was observed in PC-3 cells treated with 100 microM quercetin, kaempferol, and luteolin, while isomolar genistein, apigenin, and myricetin suppressed PC-3 proliferation by 73%, 70%, and 59%, respectively (p < 0.05). Naringenin and rutin were not as effective and inhibited growth by < 25%. Exposure to increasing concentrations of quercetin and kaempferol led to a dose-dependent decrease in proliferation. Refeeding kaempferol-treated cells (50 microM) complete medium without the flavonoid resulted in a return toward control growth rates. Similar growth recovery was not observed in quercetin-treated cells. The antiproliferative response of PC-3 cells to quercetin and kaempferol was additive when supplemented to the medium at 25 microM. A block in G2-to-M phase progression was observed after the addition of 25 microM kaempferol. When quercetin reached 100 microM, an increase in the proportion of cells in the S phase became apparent within 24 hours. Apoptosis was not evident, even when concentrations of quercetin or kaempferol were raised to 100 microM. The present studies suggest that alterations in cell cycle progression contribute significantly to the antiproliferative effects of quercetin and kaempferol in PC-3 cells. PMID: 11341036
http://tinyurl.com/gq6wj
:: Also, I am not giving any direct advice here but rather I am :: discussing about the issue hoping that an intelligent conclusion [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] : That was just my speculation and many disagree with me, apparently : also Dr. Myers. It is OK to change mind.
 Signature Juhana
"All facts are theory-laden" - Paul Feyerabend
Matti Narkia - 16 Aug 2006 21:24 GMT >:::::::: Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it >:::::::: studies species abundant in the researchers' own region. What [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >Graduate Program in Nutrition, Nutrition Department, Pennsylvania State >University, University Park, PA 16802, USA. Which shows that quercetin was far more effective in preventing proliferation of prostate cancer cells in vitro than myricetin. If you want a flavonoid take quercetin. ALA increases growth rate much more than myricetin slows it down, so _very_ theoretically and speculatively, the net result of taking walnuts could be increased proliferation.
 Signature Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia - 16 Aug 2006 22:58 GMT >>:::::::: Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it >>:::::::: studies species abundant in the researchers' own region. What [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] >speculatively, the net result of taking walnuts could be increased >proliferation. Quercetin is in many ways good for the prostate: it may be used to prevent and experimentally treat prostate cancer, it may help in prostatitis, and when used together with finasteride, it may reduce prostate weight in BPH. It is also COX-2 and 5-lipoxygenase inhibitor, which is helpful in prostate cancer prevention and treatment:
Quercetin links:
Mayo Clinic: Quercetin Prevents Prostate Cancer <http://www.youngagain2000.com/mayclinquerm.html>
Quercetin May Be Used in Treating Prostate Cancer - Brief Article Prepared Foods - Find Articles <http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3289/is_9_170/ai_78576217>
Prostatitis Website -- Quercetin Page <http://www.prostatitis.org/quercetin.html>
Quercetin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin>
Medline references about quercetin:
Vijayababu MR, Arunkumar A, Kanagaraj P, Venkataraman P, Krishnamoorthy G, Arunakaran J. Quercetin downregulates matrix metalloproteinases 2 and 9 proteins expression in prostate cancer cells (PC-3). Mol Cell Biochem. 2006 Jul;287(1-2):109-16. Epub 2006 Apr 28. PMID: 16645725 [PubMed - in process] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=16645725>
"... Conclusion: Hence, we speculated that inhibition of metastasis-specific MMPs in cancer cells may be one of the targets for anticancer function of quercetin, and thus provides the molecular basis for the development of quercetin as a novel chemopreventive agent for metastatic prostate cancer."
Vijayababu MR, Arunkumar A, Kanagaraj P, Arunakaran J. Effects of quercetin on insulin-like growth factors (IGFs) and their binding protein-3 (IGFBP-3) secretion and induction of apoptosis in human prostate cancer cells. J Carcinog. 2006 Apr 6;5:10. PMID: 16600019 [PubMed - in process] <http://www.carcinogenesis.com/content/5/1/10>
Al-Fayez M, Cai H, Tunstall R, Steward WP, Gescher AJ. Differential modulation of cyclooxygenase-mediated prostaglandin production by the putative cancer chemopreventive flavonoids tricin, apigenin and quercetin. Cancer Chemother Pharmacol. 2006 Mar 22; [Epub ahead of print] PMID: 16552572 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=16552572>
Vijayababu MR, Kanagaraj P, Arunkumar A, Ilangovan R, Dharmarajan A, Arunakaran J. Quercetin induces p53-independent apoptosis in human prostate cancer cells by modulating Bcl-2-related proteins: a possible mediation by IGFBP-3. Oncol Res. 2006;16(2):67-74. PMID: 16898267 [PubMed - in process] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=16898267>
Vijayababu MR, Kanagaraj P, Arunkumar A, Ilangovan R, Aruldhas MM, Arunakaran J. Quercetin-induced growth inhibition and cell death in prostatic carcinoma cells (PC-3) are associated with increase in p21 and hypophosphorylated retinoblastoma proteins expression. J Cancer Res Clin Oncol. 2005 Nov;131(11):765-71. Epub 2005 Nov 1. PMID: 16049707 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=16049707>
"... From this study, it was concluded that quercetin inhibits prostate cancer cell proliferation by altering the expression of cell cycle regulators and apoptotic proteins."
O'Leary KA, de Pascual-Tereasa S, Needs PW, Bao YP, O'Brien NM, Williamson G. Effect of flavonoids and vitamin E on cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2) transcription. Mutat Res. 2004 Jul 13;551(1-2):245-54. PMID: 15225597 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=15225597>
"... However, the tocopherols inhibited COX-2 activity showing that the tocopherols act post-transcriptionally on activity, whereas quercetin and some quercetin conjugates affect both the transcription and activity of COX-2. Flavonoid modulation of COX-2 transcription may therefore be an important mechanism in anti-carcinogenesis."
Ma Z, Hung Nguyen T, Hoa Huynh T, Tien Do P, Huynh H. Reduction of rat prostate weight by combined quercetin-finasteride treatment is associated with cell cycle deregulation. J Endocrinol. 2004 Jun;181(3):493-507. PMID: 15171697 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=15171697> <http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/cgi/reprint/181/3/493> (full text PDF)
"... The results suggest that quercetin synergizes with finasteride to reduce the wet prostate weight through a cell cycle-related pathway, which may be androgen independent."
Ma ZS, Huynh TH, Ng CP, Do PT, Nguyen TH, Huynh H. Reduction of CWR22 prostate tumor xenograft growth by combined tamoxifen-quercetin treatment is associated with inhibition of angiogenesis and cellular proliferation. Int J Oncol. 2004 May;24(5):1297-304. PMID: 15067354 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=15067354>
"... These findings indicate that tamoxifen inhibits CWR22 prostate tumor by modulating the angiogenesis and its antineoplastic effects can be potentiated by combined use with quercetin."
de Pascual-Teresa S, Johnston KL, DuPont MS, O'Leary KA, Needs PW, Morgan LM, Clifford MN, Bao Y, Williamson G. Quercetin metabolites downregulate cyclooxygenase-2 transcription in human lymphocytes ex vivo but not in vivo. J Nutr. 2004 Mar;134(3):552-7. PMID: 14988445 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/3/552>
Nair HK, Rao KV, Aalinkeel R, Mahajan S, Chawda R, Schwartz SA. Inhibition of prostate cancer cell colony formation by the flavonoid quercetin correlates with modulation of specific regulatory genes. Clin Diagn Lab Immunol. 2004 Jan;11(1):63-9. PMID: 14715546 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://cvi.asm.org/cgi/content/full/11/1/63?view=long&pmid=14715546>
"... The results of these studies provide a scientific basis for the potential use of flavonoids as nutraceuticals in the chemoprevention of cancer."
Shenouda NS, Zhou C, Browning JD, Ansell PJ, Sakla MS, Lubahn DB, Macdonald RS. Phytoestrogens in common herbs regulate prostate cancer cell growth in vitro. Nutr Cancer. 2004;49(2):200-8. PMID: 15489213 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.leaonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207%2Fs15327914nc4902_12>
Banerjee T, Van der Vliet A, Ziboh VA. Downregulation of COX-2 and iNOS by amentoflavone and quercetin in A549 human lung adenocarcinoma cell line. Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 2002 May-Jun;66(5-6):485-92. PMID: 12144868 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=12144868>
"... Taken together, our data indicated that amentoflavone and quercetin differentially exerted supression of PGE(2) biosynthesis via downregulation of COX-2/iNOS expression."
Kobayashi T, Nakata T, Kuzumaki T. Effect of flavonoids on cell cycle progression in prostate cancer cells. Cancer Lett. 2002 Feb 8;176(1):17-23. PMID: 11790449 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=11790449>
Lin SY, Tsai SJ, Wang LH, Wu MF, Lee H. Protection by quercetin against cooking oil fumes-induced DNA damage in human lung adenocarcinoma CL-3 cells: role of COX-2. Nutr Cancer. 2002;44(1):95-101. PMID: 12672646 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=12672646>
"... Our data showed that COX-2 mRNA and protein levels were significantly repressed by addition of quercetin in a dose- dependent manner. Gel retardation assay showed that nuclear factor-kappaB DNA binding activity induced by COF was significantly inhibited by quercetin. From our previous and present studies, it is revealed that coexpression of COX-2 and cytochrome P-450 1A1 caused by COF may contribute to genomic instability in lung cancer development. Thus quercetin may act as a potent chemopreventive agent of lung cancer for nonsmoking Taiwanese women."
Nakanoma T, Ueno M, Iida M, Hirata R, Deguchi N. Effects of quercetin on the heat-induced cytotoxicity of prostate cancer cells. Int J Urol. 2001 Nov;8(11):623-30. PMID: 11903689 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=11903689>
"... CONCLUSION: These results suggest that quercetin may enhance heat-induced cytotoxicity in prostate cancer cell lines through the inhibition of hsp70 production."
Asea A, Ara G, Teicher BA, Stevenson MA, Calderwood SK. Effects of the flavonoid drug quercetin on the response of human prostate tumours to hyperthermia in vitro and in vivo. Int J Hyperthermia. 2001 Jul-Aug;17(4):347-56. PMID: 11471985 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=11471985>
"... These experiments, thus, suggest the use of Quercetin as a hyperthermia sensitizer in the treatment of prostate carcinoma."
Xing N, Chen Y, Mitchell SH, Young CY. Quercetin inhibits the expression and function of the androgen receptor in LNCaP prostate cancer cells. Carcinogenesis. 2001 Mar;22(3):409-14. PMID: 11238180 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/3/409>
"... Our result suggests that quercetin can attenuate the function of AR by repressing its expression and has the potential to become a chemopreventive and/or chemotherapeutic agent for prostate cancer."
Raso GM, Meli R, Di Carlo G, Pacilio M, Di Carlo R. Inhibition of inducible nitric oxide synthase and cyclooxygenase-2 expression by flavonoids in macrophage J774A.1. Life Sci. 2001 Jan 12;68(8):921-31. PMID: 11213362 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=11213362>
"... Quercetin, galangin, apigenin, and naringenin markedly decreased PGE2 release and COX-2 expression in a concentration- dependent manner. This study suggests that inhibition of iNOS and COX-2 expression by flavonoids may be one of the mechanisms responsible for their anti-inflammatory effects."
Kampa M, Hatzoglou A, Notas G, Damianaki A, Bakogeorgou E, Gemetzi C, Kouroumalis E, Martin PM, Castanas E. Wine antioxidant polyphenols inhibit the proliferation of human prostate cancer cell lines. Nutr Cancer. 2000;37(2):223-33. PMID: 11142097 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=11142097>
"... The proliferation of LNCaP and PC3 cells was preferentially inhibited by flavonoids (catechin, epicatechin, and quercetin), whereas resveratrol was the most potent inhibitor of DU145 cell growth. ..."
Kolchin IuN, Popovich LF, Grabovskii LA, Luik AI, Moibenko AA. [The effect of the 5-lipoxygenase inhibitor quercetin on the functional and morphologic manifestations of myocardial lesions in ischemia and reperfusion of the heart] Kardiologiia. 1990 Mar;30(3):72-5. Russian. PMID: 2381127 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=2381127>
 Signature Matti Narkia
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I.P. Freely - 11 Jan 2007 22:48 GMT Wayne - 19 Jan 2007 20:24 GMT Is it also good for coughs ,colds and dirty holes?
Juhana Harju - 17 Aug 2006 06:35 GMT :::::::::: Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it :::::::::: studies species abundant in the researchers' own region. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] : proliferation of prostate cancer cells in vitro than myricetin. : If you want a flavonoid take quercetin. I don' t deny that, but that is another issue. We were talking about walnuts and ALA here.
: ALA increases growth rate much : more than myricetin slows it down, so _very_ theoretically and : speculatively, the net result of taking walnuts could be increased : proliferation. There are also other factors affecting the net effect, like the high gamma-tocopherol content of walnuts which is of course a beneficial effect. (And yes, it is possible to take gamma-tocopherol as a supplement but that is another issue again.)
 Signature Juhana
"All facts are theory-laden" - Paul Feyerabend
Juhana Harju - 17 Aug 2006 07:16 GMT ::::::::::: Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it ::::::::::: studies species abundant in the researchers' own region. [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] : effect. (And yes, it is possible to take gamma-tocopherol as a : supplement but that is another issue again.) http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/2004/041214.Jiang.vitamine.html
Abstract: http://tinyurl.com/qshq2
Full study: http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/101/51/17825
 Signature Juhana
"All facts are theory-laden" - Paul Feyerabend
Matti Narkia - 17 Aug 2006 10:21 GMT >::::::::::: Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it >::::::::::: studies species abundant in the researchers' own region. [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] >Full study: >http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/101/51/17825 Absolutely irrelevant to walnuts. You can get more gamma-tocopherol for example from pistachios than from english walnuts and pistachios have _much_ less ALA. You can also get gamma-tocopherol from supplements.
 Signature Matti Narkia
Juhana Harju - 17 Aug 2006 11:01 GMT ::: There are also other factors affecting the net effect, like the high ::: gamma-tocopherol content of walnuts which is of course a beneficial [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] : for example from pistachios than from english walnuts and pistachios : have _much_ less ALA. By consuming them you don't get myricetin.
: You can also get gamma-tocopherol from : supplements.
 Signature Juhana
"All facts are theory-laden" - Paul Feyerabend
Matti Narkia - 17 Aug 2006 11:42 GMT >::: There are also other factors affecting the net effect, like the high >::: gamma-tocopherol content of walnuts which is of course a beneficial [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >By consuming them you don't get myricetin. Are you sure? Do you have any evidence about that? Myricetin is not a rare flavonoid. It's found for example in berries, fruits, vegetables, herbs and red wine. The best source is probably southern bayberry (Myrica cerifera). Myricetin is also available as supplements.
About the myricetin content in berries, see for example
Hakkinen SH, Karenlampi SO, Heinonen IM, Mykkanen HM, Torronen AR. Content of the flavonols quercetin, myricetin, and kaempferol in 25 edible berries. J Agric Food Chem. 1999 Jun;47(6):2274-9. PMID: 10794622 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=R etrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10794622>
But even if there is no myricetin in pistachios, as is your unsupported claim, their ALA content is so much lower than walnuts' that the net result is for the benefit of pistachios even if don't consider the fact that the have more
And as mentioned, there are better flavonoids for PCa than myricetin, quercetin for example. Quercetin is found in many foods, onions are one of the best sources. Red wine has some quercetin as well. Also quercetin is available as supplements.
 Signature Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia - 17 Aug 2006 11:57 GMT >::: There are also other factors affecting the net effect, like the high >::: gamma-tocopherol content of walnuts which is of course a beneficial [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >By consuming them you don't get myricetin. Are you sure? Do you have any evidence about that? Myricetin is not a rare flavonoid. It's found for example in berries, fruits, vegetables, herbs and red wine. The best source is probably southern bayberry (Myrica cerifera). Myricetin is also available as supplements.
About the myricetin content in berries, see for example
Hakkinen SH, Karenlampi SO, Heinonen IM, Mykkanen HM, Torronen AR. Content of the flavonols quercetin, myricetin, and kaempferol in 25 edible berries. J Agric Food Chem. 1999 Jun;47(6):2274-9. PMID: 10794622 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=R etrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10794622>
But even if there is no myricetin in pistachios, as is your unsupported claim, their ALA content is so much lower than walnuts' that the net result is for the benefit of pistachios, even if don't consider the fact that they have more gamma-tocopherol than walnuts.
And as mentioned, there are better flavonoids for PCa than myricetin, quercetin for example. Quercetin is found in many foods, onions are one of the best sources. Red wine has some quercetin as well. Also quercetin is available as supplements.
 Signature Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia - 17 Aug 2006 14:16 GMT >>::: There are also other factors affecting the net effect, like the high >>::: gamma-tocopherol content of walnuts which is of course a beneficial [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >PMID: 10794622 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] ><http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=R etrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10794622> Ginkgo biloba also has both myricetin and quercetin.
 Signature Matti Narkia
Juhana Harju - 17 Aug 2006 14:51 GMT ::::: There are also other factors affecting the net effect, like the ::::: high gamma-tocopherol content of walnuts which is of course a [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] : J Agric Food Chem. 1999 Jun;47(6):2274-9. : PMID: 10794622 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=R etrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10794622>
: But even if there is no myricetin in pistachios, as is your : unsupported claim, their ALA content is so much lower than walnuts' [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : one of the best sources. Red wine has some quercetin as well. Also : quercetin is available as supplements. If you look at this Finnish study by Knekt P et al, you can see that no other flavonoid is as clearly associated with reduced prostate cancer risk than myricetin, RR 0.43 (0.22, 0.86), /P/ for trend 0.002. While this is an epidemiological observation only the result is statistically very significant.
The abstract: http://tinyurl.com/zrs7j
The full study: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/76/3/560
 Signature Juhana
"All facts are theory-laden" - Paul Feyerabend
Matti Narkia - 17 Aug 2006 15:46 GMT >::::: There are also other factors affecting the net effect, like the >::::: high gamma-tocopherol content of walnuts which is of course a [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >The full study: >http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/76/3/560 Ok, in this study. Other studies, among them your lab study, have shown greater benefit for quercetin. And if you read the above study, you'll see that myricetin in it was derived from berries. You don't need walnuts to get myricetin.
 Signature Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia - 18 Aug 2006 01:44 GMT >>::::: There are also other factors affecting the net effect, like the >>::::: high gamma-tocopherol content of walnuts which is of course a [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >>The full study: >>http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/76/3/560 The above link is for PDF file. The full study is available also in HTML format:
<http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/76/3/560>
>Ok, in this study. Other studies, among them your lab study, have >shown greater benefit for quercetin. And if you read the above study, >you'll see that myricetin in it was derived from berries. You don't >need walnuts to get myricetin.
 Signature Matti Narkia
Juhana Harju - 18 Aug 2006 02:04 GMT :::::::: There are also other factors affecting the net effect, like the :::::::: high gamma-tocopherol content of walnuts which is of course a [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] :::: J Agric Food Chem. 1999 Jun;47(6):2274-9. :::: PMID: 10794622 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=R etrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10794622>
:::: But even if there is no myricetin in pistachios, as is your :::: unsupported claim, their ALA content is so much lower than walnuts' [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] :: you'll see that myricetin in it was derived from berries. You don't :: need walnuts to get myricetin. While the issue about walnuts remains unclear, we can probably agree that consumption of myricetin containing berries, like strawberries and blueberries, is beneficial in prostate cancer. I noticed that there is myricetin in rutabaga (Swedish turnip), too.
 Signature Juhana
"All facts are theory-laden" - Paul Feyerabend
Juhana Harju - 18 Aug 2006 02:25 GMT ::::::::: There are also other factors affecting the net effect, like ::::::::: the high gamma-tocopherol content of walnuts which is of [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] ::::: J Agric Food Chem. 1999 Jun;47(6):2274-9. ::::: PMID: 10794622 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=R etrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10794622>
::::: But even if there is no myricetin in pistachios, as is your ::::: unsupported claim, their ALA content is so much lower than [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] : and blueberries, is beneficial in prostate cancer. I noticed that : there is myricetin in rutabaga (Swedish turnip), too. The myricetin content of some foods can be found in this file. Please note the exceptionally high content of myricetin in walnuts.
The role of antioxidant phytonutrients in the prevention of diseases. Andrea Lugasi, Judit Hóvári, Katalin V. Sági, Lajos Bíró Volume 47(1-4):119-125, 2003 Acta Biologica Szegediensis
The full study as a pdf-file: http://www.sci.u-szeged.hu/ABS/2003/ActaHP/47119.pdf
 Signature Juhana
"All facts are theory-laden" - Paul Feyerabend
Matti Narkia - 18 Aug 2006 02:52 GMT >::::::::: There are also other factors affecting the net effect, like >::::::::: the high gamma-tocopherol content of walnuts which is of [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] >The myricetin content of some foods can be found in this file. Please note >the exceptionally high content of myricetin in walnuts. We don't know, however, whether very high myricetin intake is converted to correspondingly greater benefit in prostate cancer. In the earlier cited study
Knowles LM, Zigrossi DA, Tauber RA, Hightower C, Milner JA. Flavonoids suppress androgen-independent human prostate tumor proliferation. Nutr Cancer. 2000;38(1):116-22. <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=11341036>
only quercetin and kaempferol are mentioned causing a dose-dependent decrease in proliferation of PCa cells.
 Signature Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia - 18 Aug 2006 02:35 GMT >:::::::: There are also other factors affecting the net effect, like the >:::::::: high gamma-tocopherol content of walnuts which is of course a [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] >blueberries, is beneficial in prostate cancer. I noticed that there is >myricetin in rutabaga (Swedish turnip), too. Myricetin intake in Knekt et al. was 0.1 ± 0.2 mg/d. On this backround red wine is probably also a good source of myricetin, if you choose your wine wisely:
Vuorinen H, Maatta K, Torronen R. Content of the flavonols myricetin, quercetin, and kaempferol in finnish berry wines. J Agric Food Chem. 2000 Jul;48(7):2675-80. PMID: 11032478 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=11032478>
"The amount of myricetin ranged from 3.8 to 22.6 mg L(-1) in red berry wines and from 0 to 14.6 mg L(-1) in red grape wines."
And wise choices are for example Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon wines:
McDonald MS, Hughes M, Burns J, Lean ME, Matthews D, Crozier A. Survey of the Free and Conjugated Myricetin and Quercetin Content of Red Wines of Different Geographical Origins. J Agric Food Chem. 1998 Feb 16;46(2):368-375. PMID: 10554248 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=10554248>
"... High total flavonol levels appear to be associated with the use of thick-skinned grape varieties, such as Cabernet Sauvignon, with a high skin:volume ratio, which were left to ripen fully in sunny conditions before harvest and which were extracted efficiently by modern methods of vinification. Some Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon wines contained up to 40 mg of total flavonols L(-1), which was higher than the levels detected in Cabernet Sauvignon from France, California, and Australia. The flavonol content of 1989 and 1990 Cabernet Sauvignon from Bulgaria was <6 mg L(-1). Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, and Pinot Noir all contained consistently higher concentrations of flavonols than their counterparts from different geographical regions."
Some of the berries with high myricetin contents are cranberry, black currant, crowberry, bog whortleberry, blueberries, and bilberry:
Hakkinen SH, Karenlampi SO, Heinonen IM, Mykkanen HM, Torronen AR. Content of the flavonols quercetin, myricetin, and kaempferol in 25 edible berries. J Agric Food Chem. 1999 Jun;47(6):2274-9. PMID: 10794622 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=R etrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10794622>
"... Amounts between 14 and 142 mg/kg of myricetin were detected in cranberry, black currant, crowberry, bog whortleberry, blueberries, and bilberry. ..."
More about black currants' myricetin content in
Mikkonen TP, Maatta KR, Hukkanen AT, Kokko HI, Torronen AR, Karenlampi SO, Karjalainen RO. Flavonol content varies among black currant cultivars. J Agric Food Chem. 2001 Jul;49(7):3274-7. PMID: 11453762 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=11453762>
"... Myricetin was the most abundant flavonol, and its amount varied significantly among cultivars, from 8.9 to 24.5 mg x 100 g(-1). ..."
Jam processing does not seem to have large effect on the phenolic content of the berries:
Amakura Y, Umino Y, Tsuji S, Tonogai Y. Influence of jam processing on the radical scavenging activity and phenolic content in berries. J Agric Food Chem. 2000 Dec;48(12):6292-7. PMID: 11312801 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ctPlus&list_uids=11312801>
 Signature Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia - 17 Aug 2006 10:16 GMT >:::::::::: Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it >:::::::::: studies species abundant in the researchers' own region. [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] >I don' t deny that, but that is another issue. We were talking about walnuts >and ALA here. Yes, and I have just shown that there is no reason to take walnuts. There is nothing in them which you couldn't get elsewhere or even replace with substances more beneficial in PCa. According to the current knowledge walnuts' relatively high ALA content causes them to classified as undesirable for PCa patients.
>: ALA increases growth rate much >: more than myricetin slows it down, so _very_ theoretically and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >There are also other factors affecting the net effect, like the high >gamma-tocopherol content of walnuts which is of course a beneficial effect. You can also get plenty of gamma-tocopherol from other nuts which have concsiderably less or no ALA. Pistachios for example have more gamma-tocopherol than english walnuts and much less ALA. There is absolutely no need to take ALA in the form of walnuts to get beneficial substances.
>(And yes, it is possible to take gamma-tocopherol as a supplement but that >is another issue again.) Why it should be a separate issue?
 Signature Matti Narkia
Juhana Harju - 17 Aug 2006 10:59 GMT :::::::::::: Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it :::::::::::: studies species abundant in the researchers' own region. [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] : current knowledge walnuts' relatively high ALA content causes them to : classified as undesirable for PCa patients. I don't share your opinion.
::: ALA increases growth rate much ::: more than myricetin slows it down, so _very_ theoretically and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] : concsiderably less or no ALA. Pistachios for example have more : gamma-tocopherol than english walnuts and much less ALA. According to the data I have pistachios are only slightly better source of gamma-tocopherol than walnuts: Pecans 24,4 mg/ 100 g Pistachios 22,6 mg/ 100g Walnuts 20,8 mg/ 100 g
: There is : absolutely no need to take ALA in the form of walnuts to get [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] : : Why it should be a separate issue? Very few people consume mixed tocopherols as supplements. (I do, however. ;-) )
 Signature Juhana
"All facts are theory-laden" - Paul Feyerabend
Matti Narkia - 17 Aug 2006 11:55 GMT >:::::::::::: Research often has a coverage bias, in the sense that it >:::::::::::: studies species abundant in the researchers' own region. [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > >I don't share your opinion. That does not come as surprise You have, however, failed to show convincing evidence why PCa patients should eat walnuts no matter what and regerdless of the risk associated to them by their high ALA content. There is nothing in walnuts which cannot be got from other sources without ALA.
>::: ALA increases growth rate much >::: more than myricetin slows it down, so _very_ theoretically and [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Pistachios 22,6 mg/ 100g >Walnuts 20,8 mg/ 100 g So what? What's your point?. Pistachios' ALA content is neglibile compared with walnuts, which makes them much safer source of gamma-tocopherol than walnuts for PCa patients, IMHO. If in future it's found that ALA is, after all, safe for PCA patients, I'll change my opinion, but according to current knowledge the situation is this.
>: There is >: absolutely no need to take ALA in the form of walnuts to get [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Very few people consume mixed tocopherols as supplements. (I do, however. >;-) ) And that should make it a separate issue? I fail to understand your logic.
BTW, gamma-tocopherol is available also as a separate supplement. Taking gamma-tocopherol raises both alpha-tocopherol and gamma-tocopherol levels.
 Signature Matti Narkia
Steve Kramer - 16 Aug 2006 16:27 GMT > Remember that you are talking to cancer patients. Do you have cancer? > We are not talking casually about prevention here, but about people, > whose lifes could be endangered by careless advice. Hi Matti
More out of curiosity than anything else, are you somehow connected to prostate cancer?
I really enjoy your posts and welcome the apparently educated opinions. Just wondering if it is altruism or if someone you know is a victim.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06, 6/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 Casodex added daily 07/06 Non Illegitimi Carborundum
Matti Narkia - 16 Aug 2006 21:28 GMT >> Remember that you are talking to cancer patients. Do you have cancer? >> We are not talking casually about prevention here, but about people, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I really enjoy your posts and welcome the apparently educated opinions. >Just wondering if it is altruism or if someone you know is a victim. Ca dx 1988, not PCa though, have been seeking information since then and have to sometimes spill it out ;-)
 Signature Matti Narkia
I.P. Freely - 18 Aug 2006 17:56 GMT > I really enjoy your posts and welcome the apparently educated opinions. > Just wondering if it is altruism or if someone you know is a victim. Third option: a fondness for academic debate. Regardless of their motives, I enjoy the process, and although my head spins as I skim their debate, I hope to glean a bottom line consensus on these questions: Should we eat walnuts? Should we take flax seed oil?
So far, I THINK it's time I quit eating a handful of walnuts every day and take gamma tocopherol supplements instead, and just drop the flaxseed oil. Or are the effects so genuinely debatable that it's a tie and we may as well eat the dang walnuts if we like 'em? I eat bales of strawberries and bags of blueberries, but rutabagas or wine? No way (can't get past the taste).
I.P.
Juhana Harju - 18 Aug 2006 19:38 GMT :: I really enjoy your posts and welcome the apparently educated :: opinions. Just wondering if it is altruism or if someone you know is [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] : bales of strawberries and bags of blueberries, but rutabagas or wine? : No way (can't get past the taste). Quitting flaxseed oil is a reasonable choice to make, but I am not so sure about walnuts. There are at least two factors favouring eating them (very high myricetin content and high gamma-tocopherol content). On the other hand, they also contain a moderate amount (9%) alpha-linolenic acid which might be harmful in prostate cancer.
I don't think that there is any reason to add rutabagas into your diet (particularly if you don't like them) if you already eat strawberries and blueberries, but I think that there is good evidence favoring drinking red wine in relation to PC. It should be noticed that non-alcoholic red wine should work also.
 Signature Juhana
"All facts are theory-laden" - Paul Feyerabend
Matti Narkia - 19 Aug 2006 01:01 GMT >:: I really enjoy your posts and welcome the apparently educated >:: opinions. Just wondering if it is altruism or if someone you know is [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Quitting flaxseed oil is a reasonable choice to make, but I am not so sure >about walnuts. I agree that quitting flaxseed oil is the sensible thing to do, if one has PCa. Walnuts are are a bit tougher to decide. They contain myricetin and gamma-tocopherol, which probably are beneficial, but they also contain alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), which is probably harmful for PCa patients (not for others). I personally wouldn't consume large amounts of walnuts, if I had PCa, but I guess everyone has by now some kind of idea what the current facts are, and can make his one decisions.
>There are at least two factors favouring eating them (very >high myricetin content and high gamma-tocopherol content). On the other [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >wine in relation to PC. It should be noticed that non-alcoholic red wine >should work also. I totally agree about red wine as long as it is Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon, or with salmon, sufficiently cooled Chilean Pinot Noir. :-)
 Signature Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia - 19 Aug 2006 01:11 GMT >> I really enjoy your posts and welcome the apparently educated opinions. >> Just wondering if it is altruism or if someone you know is a victim. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >debate, I hope to glean a bottom line consensus on these questions: >Should we eat walnuts? Should we take flax seed oil? I think you are right about the fondness for academic debate :-).
Flaxseed oil: don't take it. Walnuts: you have the facts, its your decision; I wouldn't consume large amounts though, if I had PCa, but that's just me.
>So far, I THINK it's time I quit eating a handful of walnuts every day >and take gamma tocopherol supplements instead, and just drop the >flaxseed oil. Or are the effects so genuinely debatable that it's a tie >and we may as well eat the dang walnuts if we like 'em? I eat bales of >strawberries and bags of blueberries, but rutabagas or wine? No way >(can't get past the taste). Berries are definitely good for you, and a glass or two of Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon or Pinot Noir daily won't harm you and could be beneficial, but anything more than that could be harmful, because alcohol tends to increase tumor angiogenesis, if used excessively.
 Signature Matti Narkia
Juhana Harju - 19 Aug 2006 08:04 GMT :: I eat bales of strawberries and bags of blueberries, but rutabagas :: or wine? No way (can't get past the taste). [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : beneficial, but anything more than that could be harmful, because : alcohol tends to increase tumor angiogenesis, if used excessively. It is probably wise to drink most of the red wine as non-alcoholic as over 3 alcoholic drinks a week starts to raise the risk of prostate cancer. The study below does not find a higher risk in red wine consumption, but I extrapolated my view from the the data of total alcohol consumption. I assume that resveratrol and other flavonoids in red wine are beneficial but alcohol is to be avoided.
http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/30/4/749
 Signature Juhana
"All facts are theory-laden" - Paul Feyerabend
Juhana Harju - 19 Aug 2006 08:24 GMT ::: I eat bales of strawberries and bags of blueberries, but rutabagas ::: or wine? No way (can't get past the taste). [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] : : http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/30/4/749 This study has found a more beneficial effect of red wine in relation to PCa.
Int J Cancer. 2005 Jan 1;113(1):133-40. Alcohol consumption and risk of prostate cancer in middle-aged men. Schoonen WM, Salinas CA, Kiemeney LA, Stanford JL. Division of Public Health Sciences, Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, Seattle, WA 98109-1024, USA.
Alcohol consumption is a modifiable lifestyle factor that may affect prostate cancer risk. Alcohol alters the hormonal milieu and contains chemical substances such as flavonoids (red wine), which may alter tumor cell growth. Data from a population-based case-control study in King County, WA, were utilized to evaluate the association of alcohol consumption with prostate cancer in middle-aged men. A total of 753 newly diagnosed prostate cancer cases, 40-64 years of age, participated in the study. Seven hundred three control subjects, frequency matched to cases by age, were selected through random digit dialing. All participants completed an in-person interview on lifetime alcohol consumption and other risk factors for prostate cancer. Logistic regression models were used to estimate odds ratios (OR) and assess significance (95% confidence intervals [CI]). All tests of statistical significance were two-sided. No clear association with prostate cancer risk was seen for overall alcohol consumption. Each additional glass of red wine consumed per week showed a statistically significant 6% decrease in relative risk (OR = 0.94; 95% CI = 0.90-0.98), and there was evidence for a decline in risk estimates across increasing categories of red wine intake (trend p = 0.02). No clear associations were seen for consumption of beer or liquor. Our present study suggests that consumption of beer or liquor is not associated with prostate cancer. There may be, however, a reduced relative risk associated with increasing level of red wine consumption. Further research is needed to evaluate the potential negative association between red wine intake and prostate cancer risk. PMID: 15386436
http://tinyurl.com/3rj2p
 Signature Juhana
"All facts are theory-laden" - Paul Feyerabend
Matti Narkia - 19 Aug 2006 14:02 GMT >:: I eat bales of strawberries and bags of blueberries, but rutabagas >:: or wine? No way (can't get past the taste). [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >http://ije |
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