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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / June 2006

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IMRT Dilemma

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Glowing in the Dark - 23 Jun 2006 19:43 GMT
Some of you may recall that I posted a while back that I had started IMRT and
was concerned at the cavalier and apparently careless way the CAT Scan
targets were placed with respect to the tattoos and the way I was manhandled
into position.  Last Friday, they left another target pasted to me which was
a good centimeter off.  I set up an appointment with the supervisor to show
it to her and discuss it.  She was very forthcoming and explained to my
satisfaction that the key alignment was between the CAT Scan and the
Radiation Machine and not with the tattoos which only serve to mark the
general area of placement for the targets.

Beginning this week, however, I noticed a rather frosty attitude in the
technician and my appointment, which for the last four weeks had started on
time or earlier, now was running 15 minutes or more late.  I asked her about
the delay today and she said it was because I had complained about the target
placement.  It was quite apparent she was put off by it.

My dilemma is that this woman, who now bears me a grudge, has the sole
responsibility for positioning me under the machine.  By keying in a wrong
digit she can render the treatment ineffective or worse and no one will be
the wiser.

At this point, I don't like my options.  I hate to abandon the treatment with
three weeks left to go, but if it is unsuccessful and/or complications arise,
I will always wonder.  The tech who is the problem is apparently the only one
who runs the machine during the day and I have no hard evidence and feel like
I'll just look paranoid by complaining again. Going somewhere else to
complete the IMRT isn't practical.  The only other option I can think of is
to go somewhere else for Brachytherapy.

As I read this over, it sounds like "Dear Abby" and, frankly, a bit paranoid.
And yet stranger things have happened in hospitals perpetrated by
disgruntled or misguided employees.  Given how high the stakes are, I wonder
if I am just over-reacting.

Signature

Glowing in the Dark

Steve Jordan - 23 Jun 2006 20:11 GMT
On June 23, Glowing wrote that, after he discussed his concerns about
the rad tech with her supervisor:
> Beginning this week, however, I noticed a rather frosty attitude in the
> technician and my appointment, which for the last four weeks had started on
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> the wiser.
>  
The tx is supposed to be of benefit to the pt.

A question has arisen whether the tx is being properly applied due to
the resentment of the tech.

One never knows what is happening in the mind of another, especially
when that person has admitted that she is retaliating.

I recommend that Glowing immediately and  I mean *TODAY*  raise general
and particular hell with the medic. Not a mid-level employee, the boss.
Insist that they hire a temporary rad tech employee to handle his
remaining txs. Do not be put off; insist and keep on insisting. It is
important that the pt have confidence in not only the tx but the personnel.

If Glowing is in the USA, I can just about guarantee that his complaint
to the boss (when complaining, always go to the top) will receive
immediate attention. Reason: the fear of medical malpractice litigation.

Please advise how it goes.

BTW: during my IMRT in 2004, one of the techs pressed the BAT pickup
very hard against my lower abdomen. Even in my ignorance, I knew that
that was causing my prostate to be displaced. I complained. Never saw
her again.

Regards,

Steve J
Sailor Jack - 23 Jun 2006 21:02 GMT
Glowing in the Dark,
   I had IMRT in Sarasota with 21st Century back two years ago.  My
observations:
----  They were very professional in placing tattoos and using them to
align me every treatment;
----  21St Century also uses ultrasound before very treatment to be
sure they are aligned properly.  Another Sarasota IMRT provider also
makes a plaster cast of the legs/hips of every patient to be sure of
alignment;
----  I always had two, count them two, technicians attending my 26
IMRT sessions;
----  Once, they forgot to do the ultrasound and were prepared to
'shoot' when I stopped the process and reminded them.  They were very
embarrassed and complied.

If you are not confident with your technicians, you should immediately
and strongly require the doctor in charge of your treatment to get you
another technician.  I won't matter much if you miss a treatment or two
until they can get you feeling better.

Diagnosed 9/2001 Gleason 7, PSA 3.8
IMRT 12/2001-1/2002
Pu-103 Seeds 3/2002
PSA every six months since: 0.5, 0.5, 0.6, 0.4
With Flomax, no difficulties
ejaculations decidedly NOT dry
Sailor Jack
Steve Kramer - 24 Jun 2006 01:43 GMT
Welcome back, Sailor Jack.

Great PSA history!

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06, 6/06
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

> Glowing in the Dark,
>    I had IMRT in Sarasota with 21st Century back two years ago.  My
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> ejaculations decidedly NOT dry
> Sailor Jack
From Bob - 23 Jun 2006 22:48 GMT
It would be a reasonable assumption that this technician is angry at you
and does not wish you well. as to whether she would deliberately harm
you is debateable, and we will never know. Enough can go wrong under the
best of conditions, without exposing yourself to a hostile radiation
technician. Any error whether by accident or intentional can result in
pain and misery for the rest of your life
.
I would suspect that other patients have had similar problems with her,
you were not singled out. I would demand that all future treatment be
given by another technician, you do not want to spend the remainder of
your life wondering & worrying about possible sabatoge.
Be strong & firm Glowing in the Dark.
Good luck ~ Bob
Alan Meyer - 23 Jun 2006 23:16 GMT
Glowing,

I don't know what the best solution is to your problem and
I guess none of us do.

You've gotten some suggestions.  One or more of them them
might be right.  For whatever it's worth, here's another approach.
I'm not advocating it.  It may be totally wrong.  But it's another
option to consider.

You could bring in a bottle of wine, a box of chocolates, a
vase of flowers, or some other gift.  Then give it to the
technician and tell her something like the following:

"I know we've gotten a bad start and that you're upset with
me.  But I want you to understand that this terrible disease
has put me under a lot of pressure.  If I've hurt you, I'm
genuinely sorry and wish to apologize.  I know you're a very
competent and caring person and I want things to be right
between us.  Please accept my apologies."

Best of luck.

   Alan
Steve Jordan - 24 Jun 2006 00:41 GMT
On June 23, Alan Meyer suggested that GitD bring the disgruntled rad
tech, who according to him has conducted herself like a spoiled brat, a
gift and an apology.

To what end? GitD simply wants competent medical tx. He has evidently
not been granted that favor and complained about it.

It is GitD who has been offended and who knows? put at risk because of
his complaint.

Moreover, what if he does what Alan recommends and the rad tech won't
forgive him for his supposed offense? Then what? And if she claims to
forgive him, that would place her in the ascendency, in control. It is
GitD who should be in control of his tx, not some childish tech, let
alone a medic.

No, the more I think about it the more certain I am that the solution
lies in amputation, as it were.

Regards,

Steve J

"Among other evils which being unarmed brings you, it causes you to be
despised."
--Niccolo Machiavelli
Alan Meyer - 24 Jun 2006 03:49 GMT
Your point of view is a valid one Steve but, I'm not so proud.
If I thought apologizing for something I didn't do might save
my life, I think I'd do it.  After all, Glowing's goal here is to
finish his treatment successfully and get out of there.

The problem is a tough one because the best solution
requires Glowing to read the minds of people he doesn't
know.  His options are: placate, fight, or do nothing.  Any one
of the three might be best.  He'll have to make a judgment
call based on his reading of the people involved and on
what he is personally most confidant he can bring off.

If I were him I would make that judgment call solely on
the basis of what I thought might get the best outcome,
without regard for who is right or wrong.

Fighting might be the right call.  Or apologizing might
be it.

   Alan
Steve Jordan - 24 Jun 2006 03:57 GMT
On June 23, Alan Meyer replied to me in pertinent part:

(snip)
> Fighting might be the right call.  Or apologizing might
> be it.
>  
OK, let's see what GitD reports.

Regards,

Steve J
I.P. Freely - 27 Jun 2006 01:26 GMT
Flowers, or formal protest?
While flowers MIGHT solve Glowing's problem, they will not help the next
pt, or the next, or the next, etc.

Having considered both ideas, I'd vote for solving the big picture: File
a formal protest against the petulant tech and demand she be watched
like a sex offender. If she can't handle legitimate pt concerns, she's
in the wrong career.

I.P.
Alan Meyer - 27 Jun 2006 12:47 GMT
> Flowers, or formal protest?
> While flowers MIGHT solve Glowing's problem, they will not help the next pt, or the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> I.P.

Maybe.

Alternatively, bring flowers, wait until the treatment is over,
then go into the issues.

As for formal protests, I always prefer informal attempts
first.  We know that the radiation tech got upset.  We don't
know exactly why since we didn't hear what was said to her.
We also don't know whether she's really good at her job
but has an overly sensitive disposition, or if she's bad at
her job.

It's hard to recommend a formal protest until we know
the facts.

   Alan
I.P. Freely - 29 Jun 2006 23:59 GMT
> As for formal protests, I always prefer informal attempts
> first.  We know that the radiation tech got upset.  We don't
> know exactly why since we didn't hear what was said to her.
> We also don't know whether she's really good at her job
> but has an overly sensitive disposition, or if she's bad at
> her job.

Analyzing and resolving employee performance issues is the employer's
responsibility and purview, not the customer's.

I.P.
MAS - 24 Jun 2006 00:11 GMT
For what it is worth, I concur with Alan on his approach. Techs really want
to do a good job and we as patients are sometimes too anxious about a
treatment that we know nothing about.

I had seeds and I had IMRT on a Peacock. I admit that once I wondered about
a particular treatment on day, but decided my fears were unfounded. In
talking to rad techs in the course of my business I found that this is
rather common.

In my case, I brought them all venison sausage... :)

Mike

> Some of you may recall that I posted a while back that I had started IMRT
> and
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> wonder
> if I am just over-reacting.
Steve Kramer - 24 Jun 2006 01:47 GMT
Re purposefully repositioning radiation  treatment....  that would be
paramount to murder.  I do not believe too many people, especially those who
are drawn to medical work, are capable of murder.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06, 6/06
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

> Some of you may recall that I posted a while back that I had started IMRT
> and
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> wonder
> if I am just over-reacting.
juniper - 24 Jun 2006 05:05 GMT
> Re purposefully repositioning radiation  treatment....  that would be
> paramount to murder.  I do not believe too many people, especially those who
> are drawn to medical work, are capable of murder.

Well, it is simple enough for a disturbed person to make a "mistake"
they are not even consciously aware of.  Dial it down, or whatever.  I
don't think we are thinking "murder" here, as in aim the beam at a
major artery and crank it up.  Just, their emotional life running their
behavior.  In this case, such a situation is untenable.

As far as those drawn to medical work being less likely than others to
murder (and only the tiniest fraction of people are even capable of
murder, in any field), I don't know.  Reminds me of counselors--there
are great ones, and there are those who are drawn to the field to
"save" others rather than dealing with their own issues.  I don't think
that being in the medical field is any sort of insurance.  There are
positive and negative reasons any one person is drawn to the field.
Maybe she always wanted to be a doctor, couldn't get into medical
school, now she's a rad tech and is fixing the doctor's prescriptions
for ALL the patients?  Its just not knowable.

What is knowable is her behavior and other red flags.

Also, I have to question that bit about the targets not mattering.
Why, then, do they do those tattoos?  

laurel
Glowing in the Dark - 24 Jun 2006 13:52 GMT
>> Re purposefully repositioning radiation  treatment....  that would be
>> paramount to murder.  I do not believe too many people, especially those who
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> major artery and crank it up.  Just, their emotional life running their
> behavior.  In this case, such a situation is untenable.

I agree that certainly no one wants to think that another person is capable
of this... unfortunately there are precedents.  Not many, I know, but the
odds of it happening are probably better than, say, being struck by lightning
:-)  We spend our lives in this newsgroup struggling with judgements based on
probabilities.  Also we are talking about a low level tech, not a "medical
professional" who has spent years in preparation and taken the Hippocratic
Oath.  Her job is simply to position me under the beam at the proper
coordinates and turn on the machine.  A computer handles everything else.

I am puzzled that the supervisor said anything to her as the supervisor's
position was that they weren't doing anything wrong and I was satisfied with
the explanation.  She specifically asked me if I had any problem with the
techs and I told her no.  I was just trying to understand the process.

It's clear that the supervisor said something to her and that whatever it was
changed her behavior.  I'd hate to think, for example, that this occurred at
annual review time and affected or was perceived to affect her raise.  I
_really_ didn't need this :-(

[snip]

> What is knowable is her behavior and other red flags.

Precisely my concern.

> Also, I have to question that bit about the targets not mattering.
> Why, then, do they do those tattoos?

Here is the explanation I was given and it makes sense to me:

The center I go to has a system that is "on rails".  They have a CAT Scan
machine and a Radiation Machine (don't know the technical name) in the same
room.  The treatment table can be shifted between the two using a set of
rails in the floor... hence the name.

Before they begin the treatment series, they fully image the prostate and
place the tattoos.  As far as that, they placed them in the middle of a big
"X" they made with broad magic markers, so they weren't so precisely placed
to begin with.  I remember being surprised at that, but said nothing at the
time.

The protocol for each treatment is as follows:

1. Using laser beams for alignment they position you on the treatment table
under the Radiation Machine.  The tattoos are used in this initial set up.  
In this stage there is a lot of pushing and pulling which seems quite
imprecise.

2. Radiation opaque crosshair targets are then placed over the tattoos and
the table is transported to the CAT Scan machine.  My concern was that the
crosshairs were not being placed over the the tattooed dots but were off by a
radius of about 5-7 mm, at least on the two I was able to check.

3. The CAT Scan machine locates the prostate _with_respect_to_the_targets.  
That compensates for any day-to-day movement and is the big advantage of this
protocol. They claim treatment accuracy to 1 mm resulting in better targeting
of the cancer and less side effects.  This obviates the need for them, for
example, to do a "simulation run" as in other protocols.

4. The table is transported back under the Radiation Machine and the lasers
are used to align it on the crosshairs.  We now have theoretical coincidence
between the CAT Scan machine and the Radiation Machine.

5. A "physicist" in another location reads the CAT Scan and relays the
coordinates for any fine adjustment of the table to the to the tech who then
makes them via a key pad.

6. The irradiation commences.

As can be seen, the critical adjustment occurs in steps 4 and 5 which are
independent of the tattoos.  I imagine the tattoos are much more critical in
other protocols.

The weak point in the protocol, as I see it, is the lack of any "fail safe"
in this adjustment due to either error, inattention, or malice.

Sometimes there is a second person in the room during the adjustment and
sometimes not.  I can't detect a pattern.  It is often a different second
person and from the comments it often seems to be a trainee.

I normally close my eyes at the beginning so as to remain as still as
possible.  If nothing else, I will certainly be keeping them open in the
future :-(

Thank you all for your thoughtful comments.  After "sleeping on this", I find
the only thing which has changed has been that I couldn't sleep :-(

Signature

Glowing in the Dark

Beverley - 24 Jun 2006 15:57 GMT
Actually it is like any other field, there are good ones and there are not
so good ones.

Rad techs are trained and it is NOT a six week course. I have a friend who
is a RN and she works for one of the big hospitals around here in the
oncology radiation dept and works much like a tech but gets paid BIG $$$$!

The attitude of the tech may have been just a coincidence. She could just
have been having a bad morning or had a bad night.

I'm willing to bet the computer records the positioning each day on each
patient and if anything was amiss it would probably be caught by someone.

Bev

> Re purposefully repositioning radiation  treatment....  that would be
> paramount to murder.  I do not believe too many people, especially those who
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> > wonder
> > if I am just over-reacting.
Glowing in the Dark - 24 Jun 2006 16:32 GMT
[snip]

> I'm willing to bet the computer records the positioning each day on each
> patient and if anything was amiss it would probably be caught by someone.

That would be reassuring, but I can see no evidence that it's so.  I'd ask if
I didn't think doing so would further exacerbate the situation.  In any
event, the mechanical positioning is only relative to the visual positioning
which is eyeballed to the laser beams.  I don't see any way of tracking or
verifying that... unless I bring a mirror and verify it myself.  I'll bet
_that_ would go over big :-)

Signature

Glowing in the Dark

Beverley - 24 Jun 2006 18:51 GMT
My hubby said his was definitely recorded each time!

> [snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> verifying that... unless I bring a mirror and verify it myself.  I'll bet
> _that_ would go over big :-)
juniper - 24 Jun 2006 04:55 GMT
Here is what I think:

You're not paranoid.  It would be stupid to ignore all these warning
signs.  I am reminded of the book "The Gift of Fear."  Very practical
book by a guy that does security for presidents, movie stars, etc.  His
point is that your mind analyzes and sorts thousands of pieces of
information that you aren't even aware of.  So, pay attention to to
that gut feeling of fear.  Also, in knowing this, you don't need to be
needlessly afraid, because you can trust your mind to make these
assessments.  You could read that book before Monday, if you wanted.
It might be useful.

That said, the stuff you are saying sends off a big warning bell to me
too, and I am not even there "picking up the vibes."

My husband is having IGRT, and there are *two* technicians at all times
in the control room.  Each technician says what he is doing to the
other tech, who says okay, then the first tech presses "go" or
whatever.  Both techs do this, using the other for a double check
before any action.

Regardless of the quantity of techs, the thing is that this woman is
not professional.  How scary is that?  She doesn't even have the
emotional control to *fake* professionalism?  Let's rachet the minus
column up a few notches for this one.

As far as I know, there is no reason you have to finish your treatments
right now.  You could take a few weeks and find a doctor and technical
staff that you are comfortable with.  Why can't you go somewhere else
for IMRT?   Is this VA?  Do let me know and I'll put you in touch with
my sister, the VA nemesis.  You'll have a motel, meals, airline
tickets, pretty nurses... well, maybe not the last one.

What can I say about this?  You do not sound paranoid.  You described
behaviors clearly and concisely.  They are all valid concerns and,
taken together, frightening.  Consider the stakes, and please let any
of us know if we can help you figure out an alternate plan.

Best wishes, laurel

> Some of you may recall that I posted a while back that I had started IMRT and
> was concerned at the cavalier and apparently careless way the CAT Scan
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> disgruntled or misguided employees.  Given how high the stakes are, I wonder
> if I am just over-reacting.
Alan Meyer - 24 Jun 2006 05:53 GMT
> ...
> As far as I know, there is no reason you have to finish your treatments
> right now.  You could take a few weeks and find a doctor and technical
> staff that you are comfortable with.
> ...

I was told that I did have to do the treatments in the allotted
time.  The idea was that, in each day's treatment, the healthy
cells are strong enough to recover in one day but the tumor
cells are not.  So the damage cumulates in the tumor cells.
You don't want the tumor cells to get a chance to recover.

In my case, the radiation was administered 5 days a week
and, because it happened over the year end period, Christmas
Eve, Christmas, New Year's Eve, and New Year's Day were
all "off" periods.  I always wondered whether all of that was
medically right, or just done that way because that's the only
way they can get staff to work.

   Alan
juniper - 24 Jun 2006 18:08 GMT
> I was told that I did have to do the treatments in the allotted
> time.  The idea was that, in each day's treatment, the healthy
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>     Alan

I think this is the thinking.  About daily dosing.  But then, ideally,
one would think that you would do it 7 days a week, not 5.  Steve is
taking two days off at 4th of July, making a 4 day break.  They are
working Monday but we asked the doctor if it mattered; he said it was
okay.  (Treatment is 2 hours from our home.)

Anyway, Alan, I believe you are right, and I am wrong, about taking a
couple of weeks off.  However,
_the_alternative_is_a_risk_not_to_be_borne_.

The tech already has put the targets on so sloppily that they are 1 cm
off.  Is that about an inch?  Over a half inch, I am sure.  When you
are talking about radiation to the prostate area, a half inch can make
all the difference in the world.  Both for treatment effectiveness, and
for side effects.  Instead of centering on the prostate (or prostate
bed), it could very well be centering on the colon.  And this was
*before* she got upset with him.

Bert (or was it Bill?) had IMRT, then seeds, then an IMRT boost.  He
did the boost 2 months after the seeds.  I think it is not set in
stone.  Regardless, if it is a choice between no RT or RT that is not
going to cure the cancer, then choose no RT.  You only have one shot to
get it right.  At least if you don't use up all your options, you can
find a way back to it.

GitD needs some answers, now.  Before that tech gets at him again.  Its
not just the tech.  The doctor's soothing oh-well-it-doesn't-matter
pitch is raising my hackles. I don't believe it.  Why the hell tattoo
targets on people if they don't need them?  They'd just put one below
the navel, one on the hip bone, or whatever.  I don't buy it.  Maybe
I'm wrong.  But if I'm right, then not only is the tech unprofessional,
the whole place is questionable.  I don't think that radiation therapy
is something you pick up at the dollar store.  You either get
qualified, capable radiation therapy, or you pull back, reassess, and
make some other decision.  Take the time to get some changes.  Even if
it means going to the medical board to get other treatment.  Or file
claims with the insurance company to force them to pay for a qualified
center.  Whatever.

He still has X-number of Gys available for treatment.  He can get
assessed and a new plan done.  Whether that includes brachy or
whatever.  The cost of continuing in this obviously unacceptable
situation far higher than the cost of "not making waves."  I am sure he
would be glad to bring her roses AND kiss her a.s (literally) before
every treatment but I am afraid that would not address the issues of
ability and competence.  The cost of incompetence could well be
lifelong pain and disability and a shortened life.

I just don't see this as a personality conflict.  I see it as a medical
care issue with potentially devastating consequences if ignored.

laurel
Beverley - 24 Jun 2006 19:02 GMT
The tattoos are a ball park. My husband had an X then a box around the X
drawn with some sort of markers. Soon it looked like a child's drawing of a
window with curtains. He had X's without windows and our buddy wound up with
a smiley face on his tummy! Things shift in there and the bladder moves etc.
Each day they shot a "picture" and then aligned according to the "picture".

A centimeter is about 1/3 of an inch. It takes about 25 mm to make one inch.
Bev

> > I was told that I did have to do the treatments in the allotted
> > time.  The idea was that, in each day's treatment, the healthy
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
>
> laurel
Glowing in the Dark - 24 Jun 2006 15:02 GMT
> Here is what I think:
>
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Best wishes, laurel

Laurel,

Thank you for your kind comments and generous offer.  No, this is not a VA
situation.  I have some very unique and demanding personal constraints
unrelated to PCa that I don't need to burden you all with which made me chose
this particular hospital and this particular treatment protocol.  Had it not
been for these constraints, I would probably have chosen robotic RP, perhaps
even at another institution.

There is a lesson in here, as I see it.  We all want to be involved in our
treatment, search for the best doctor, be questioning, etc.  On the other
hand, these people are only human and potentially take questions, especially
pointed ones, as an unwarranted lack of trust and/or implied criticism.  The
Radiation Oncologist I go to probably sees 30 patients a day and doesn't have
a lot of time for hand-holding.  He also has a fairly large ego (BTW, so do
I:-)) which, in my experience, ususally comes with the territory.  He is not
used to patients who read the medical literature nor does he have time
budgeted by his management to discuss it.  Were I in his shoes, I would
probably feel the same way: years of medical school and practice must count
for something more than a patient searching the Internet :-)

The IMRT facility is like a finely tuned assembly line, stamping out a
patient every twenty minutes.  It's Big Business. They are simply not set up
to handle anything out of process. In retrospect, I would have been better
off not questioning anything.

I realize that others have been able to find more flexible and ideal
situations.  However, given the number of cancer patients and the number of
facilities, I suspect my situation is more like the norm for most people.  It
is a classic supply and demand situation and the demand outstrips the supply
with predictable consequences.  We would all like to view ourselves as "Super
Patient", making demands and calling the shots, but I'm afraid the reality
for most of us is "you pays yer money and you takes your chances".

I still haven't decided what to do but I'm leaning toward a modified Alan
Meyer Gambit.  When you are holding 4 high with a small stack of chips, it's
probably not the best time to bluff :-)

Signature

Glowing in the Dark

Alan Meyer - 24 Jun 2006 20:38 GMT
> ...
> The IMRT facility is like a finely tuned assembly line, stamping out a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> facilities, I suspect my situation is more like the norm for most people.
> ...

I was treated by a technician who told me she had previously
worked at a big, public, general hospital in Washington DC.  They
were treating 50 patients a day on each of two radiation machines.
Assuming 8 hour work days, I make that 9 minutes and 36 seconds
per patient.  [ Who said we don't have the best health care in the
world :) ]

So, although your situation seems rushed, you are getting a bit
over double the amount of attention being given to patients in some
facilities.

> ...
> I still haven't decided what to do but I'm leaning toward a modified Alan
> Meyer Gambit.  When you are holding 4 high with a small stack of chips, it's
> probably not the best time to bluff :-)
> ...

Sacrificing a piece to win the game is a time-honored strategy.

Good luck.

   Alan
juniper - 25 Jun 2006 04:22 GMT
I respect this, and your points are very well made.  laurel

> There is a lesson in here, as I see it.  We all want to be involved in our
> treatment, search for the best doctor, be questioning, etc.  On the other
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> to handle anything out of process. In retrospect, I would have been better
> off not questioning anything.
Skids - 24 Jun 2006 23:37 GMT
Now you go to the supervisor's super or higher (hospital admin). This person
obviously has no respect for you or anyone else if her feelings are that
easily bothered. You are paying for the treatments, if you are not being
treated right, COMPLAIN LOUDLY. Don't let this person get away with her
pettiness.  You probably aren't her first victim and won't be her last
unless something is done. Don't take any crap. I think you're going through
enough already without having to worry that someone may not be giving you
the proper care.

> Some of you may recall that I posted a while back that I had started IMRT
> and
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> wonder
> if I am just over-reacting.
Steve Jordan - 25 Jun 2006 01:35 GMT
On June 24, Skids wrote,in pertinent part:
> Now you go to the supervisor's super or higher (hospital admin). This person
> obviously has no respect for you or anyone else if her feelings are that
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> the proper care.
>  
Give it up Skids, Juniper, me.

GitD has evidently decided, based upon God knows what criteria, that he
will surrender to the tech.

To decline to bring the matter to the attention of the medic is to me
simply beyond belief. Who is in charge, the medic or the patient?

We have tried to give him advice, but he has evidently chosen to, well,
wimp out.

His choice, his life.

Regards,

Steve J

One more time:
"'MD' does not mean 'Medical Deity.'"
-- Stephen B. Strum, MD
Skids - 26 Jun 2006 00:20 GMT
> On June 24, Skids wrote,in pertinent part:
>> Now you go to the supervisor's super or higher (hospital admin). This
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> "'MD' does not mean 'Medical Deity.'"
> -- Stephen B. Strum, MD

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