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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / October 2003Biopsy Question
I had a biopsy (14 specimens) on October 6, it is now October 17 and I'm still passing a small amount of blood when urinating. Is this normal or should the bleeding have stopped by now? Dr. Walsh's book (p. 137) says call your doctor if blood in the urine persists for more than five days. I think you win a prize for the most holes poked into the prostate of anybody on this newsgroup. I only had 12. So I would expect your doctor will say that's why you still have some bleeding. But I'm not a doctor, so I don't really know. Good luck on your biopsy results, and stay with us. jimhoney > I had a biopsy (14 specimens) on October 6, it is now October 17 and I'm > still passing a small amount of blood when urinating. Is this normal or > should the bleeding have stopped by now? hi jerry - when you say you are passing a small amount of blood, is that at the start of the urine flow? 14 sticks is quite a few, so it makes sense that you may have a lingering blood problem than someone such as myself, who only had 6 sticks. by the 3rd day, mine had straighten up. my guess is that you should be passing less and less as it heals. wait till you see the catsup. but that too, shall pass. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional Yes, it's at the start of the urine flow and I think seems to be less and less. I'll wait a few days to see what transpires. I was diagnosed as having prostate cancer. One specimen was 5% and one was 20%. The rest O.K. URO calls me a T1 case, Gleason 6. Not sure what all this means, but aim to find out ASAP. I'm going to be scheduled to consult with a radiation therapy doctor next week. From my initial research, I'm leaning toward radiation therapy (I'm self employed and it will be a hardship to miss work), also it sounds a lot less radical approach. I'll be going to Kaiser Permanente Sunset in Los Angeles. Has anyone had anything done there? If so please let me know your experiences. Thanks. > hi jerry - when you say you are passing a small amount of blood, is that > at the start of the urine flow? 14 sticks is quite a few, so it makes [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional I would take my specimens, and lab work and talk with a Prostate Cancer Specialist, and consider RP......you have good numbers, and such and I do think a young age. Surgery is over in 3 days or less....Recovery is 2 weeks. I was working at week # 2.5... Surgery seems to be a good standard depending on the surgeon. I was scheduled for radiation,(that can cause many problems also) I decided on the RP route. I am 4 years post operation. doing fine. am 53....was 49 at time of decision. John Loomis. A few days off work, may give you many years of sexual happiness, and health...My 2 bits. Good wishes..not easy.... > Yes, it's at the start of the urine flow and I think seems to be less and > less. I'll wait a few days to see what transpires. I was diagnosed as having [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > > > knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional Yes, do find out what it means. It's very important in order for you to participate in the decision making process. Read Dr. Patrick Walsh's Prostate Cancer book and check out www.phoenix5.org BTW, T1 (which should be T1a, T1b, T1c) and Gleason 6 is damned good news if you have to have PCa.  SignatureSteve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 Begin Lupron 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 > Yes, it's at the start of the urine flow and I think seems to be less and > less. I'll wait a few days to see what transpires. I was diagnosed as having [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > > > knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional You know what Curtis means by "catsup" don't you? Anyway, blood can be present there for up to three months without worry, according to my doctor. jimhoney > hi jerry - when you say you are passing a small amount of blood, is that > at the start of the urine flow? 14 sticks is quite a few, so it makes [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional I've got a good suspicion I know what he means. Not looking forward to that! > You know what Curtis means by "catsup" don't you? Anyway, blood can be > present there for up to three months without worry, according to my doctor. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > > > knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional > I've got a good suspicion I know what he means. Not looking forward to that! Don't worry --- I think he's talking about the thicker, dried blood that you see when it's not actively bleeding anymore. I had no blood in my urine (10 plugs for me), and (dark brown) "catsup" in my ejaculate for two weeks. Scary looking, but otherwise not a problem in my case. Larry Welcome Jerry: Mine was 10 specimens and the main bleeding stopped within a couple days. I had blood in the ejaculate (oh, those were the days) for a longer period, maybe ten days. However, I did notice red drops on the white porcelain, usually either when I started to urinate or at the end, for several weeks. I did not consider that "bleeding" though, so I never mentioned it. I'd call my doctor just to be sure. Wish you the best on the path report. Thank you. David S. > I had a biopsy (14 specimens) on October 6, it is now October 17 and I'm > still passing a small amount of blood when urinating. Is this normal or > should the bleeding have stopped by now? > I had a biopsy (14 specimens) on October 6, it is now October 17 and I'm > still passing a small amount of blood when urinating. Is this normal or > should the bleeding have stopped by now? Mine was 12 specimens. I was told to expect blood in urine for two days and in semen for up to two weeks. I never actually saw any at all. I think it's a good idea to inform your doctor. I'm guessing they won't do anything about it simply because I don't know that there's anything they can do. But it can't hurt to let him know. Why not call his office, explain what's happening, and ask them to get back to you about whether there is anything dangerous about it, or anything that can or should be done? I had mine on 10-22. No signs of blood in stool or urine. Ejaculate is another matter. I tell wifey my love for her is like a red, red rose. The doc told me I might have blood for up to two weeks; beyond that let him know something. He told me to stay away from aspirin and aspirin products in the interim. My biopsy turned out negative. I never knew a person could be so tickled over being diagnosed with benign prostatic hypertrophy. I'll still lurk this news group because I know the negative biopsy does not necessarily mean no cancer is present-they just didn't find any but may next year on the followup. Good luck with all of it. Tom Shearon Tom, you're wife is likely overjoyed at the prospect of a little tainted semen for a couple of weeks as opposed to none for the rest of her life. Congratulations! I hope you never come here as a member. SignatureSteve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 Begin Lupron 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 > I had mine on 10-22. No signs of blood in stool or urine. Ejaculate is > another matter. I tell wifey my love for her is like a red, red rose. The doc [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Tom Shearon Believe me she was, Steve. She is one of the most stoic folks around, but she cried with joy when we got the news. I too hope I never become a member. I went through 14 months with my first wife fighting the battle of breast cancer. I had the honor of being around heroics way beyond what I'd seen on sports fields and battle fields, and redefined what I considered a hero. You guys qualify. I'll admire that quality in all of you but eschew the rubber-meeting-the-road participation if I can. My thanks and admiration are extended to everyone traveling this road. Tom Shearon Tom Shearon Heroes? Nah, we risk nothing. What we have, we have. We didn't ask for it or offer to take it for the good of anyone else. We have warriors. That is a fact. But none of us are heroes -- at least not in our having PCa. Some of us may be heroes in other ventures, but none of us willing accepted this. Perhaps we have one hero. Martin Howard is risking his life so that others might live. I haven't the least bit of evidence that he will succeed, but you cannot count him out as a hero. Someone said there is fine line between hero and fool, but Martin's actions are definitely heroic. SignatureSteve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 Begin Lupron 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 > Believe me she was, Steve. She is one of the most stoic folks around, but she > cried with joy when we got the news. I too hope I never become a member. I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Tom Shearon >Subject: Re: Biopsy Question >From: "Steve Kramer" skramer@cinci.rr.com [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >you cannot count him out as a hero. Someone said there is fine line between >hero and fool, but Martin's actions are definitely heroic. If Martin and several hundred of his friends were doing surgery/radiation/hormones/chemotherapy AND ALSO his urine and other alternative treatments, AND using standard measures of success (PSA), and comparing his results with others who were doing only surgery/radiation/hormones/chemotherapy, he would be a hero. Then he'd be a scientist. Don't get me wrong. I fully understand there are different interpretations of the word "hero" and I fully admit, mine may not be the precise one. But, I personally feel the moniker ought to be laid on someone who willingly involves himself in a significant amount of risk in order to bring about a significant benefit to another or others. If that is correct, then heroism is a state of mind and only the state of mind of the hero. For example: Firefighter Armstrong recently fought a fire here in Cincinnati. Fighting fires does not make one a hero. Outside, at the end of a hose, watching 2x4 burn is not heroism. It was thought that there were people inside the structure. Now, there is something significant for someone to benefit from, but Armstrong is still outside, still not a hero. He gets tapped on the shoulder and told to go in with three others to get the person. Hero? Not yet. He didn't have much of a choice and besides, they had a water hose. Once inside, however, they discovered a kink in the hose. No water. They all know it. Two do the safe thing and back towards the door. Armstrong continues. He's after the occupants. He can't even see in the cloud of smoke, so he's feeling by hand. Someone opens another door to get water in. Fireball! Armstrong is hit right in the chest and killed. There was no one else in the house. In my mind, he was foolish to go forward without water. I suspect if all the truth was known, his buddies probably told him so. And, there were no other people in the house for him to save. But, he risked is life in the thought that there were people in the house. I don't see Martin as much different. He's killing himself and others are telling him it's not safe, but he continues in the hopes of finding a cure. The cure he is hoping to find is not for himself, that is fairly obvious. So, he is risking his life to bring about a significant benefit to us. It has no chance of success, but that doesn't change what is in his mind. SignatureSteve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 Begin Lupron 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 > >Subject: Re: Biopsy Question > >From: "Steve Kramer" skramer@cinci.rr.com [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > surgery/radiation/hormones/chemotherapy, > he would be a hero. Perhaps a more precise way of terming it is courage. The ability and willingness to face adverse circumstances. In the case of disease, it's the willingness and ability to get up every morning and beard a huge, growling lion. It does require willingness because we all have the choice available to us of not facing the next day. It's a different kind of courage, Steve. It's an enduring, day-in-day-out, screw-the-pain-and-adversity, I'm-going-to-survive, I'm-going-to-fight-to-the-last-breath, type courage. Distinctly different from what society generally acknowledges as heroic/courageous. Not a slam dunk over Shaq. Not a diving catch in the end zone. Not a storming of an enemy bunker by some inspired soldier. Not something that's walked away from and forgotten save for the video highlights or historical reference. It's the kind of courage that inspires a bunch of goose bumps when one sits down and really thinks about what it takes to do what's done. That's how I came to see it when my wife fought through 14 months of breast cancer before the cancer won. The heroics and courage also extend to the folks, especially the nurses, who work in this day in and day out. I've proclaimed a bunch of courageous heroes and will brook no dissent. Sit down, shut up, and wear the moniker. I may have been heroic at other times in my life. But, .... Oh, what the hell. I accept your terms. I don't know if "courage" and "hero" related so closely, but neither are they mutually exclusive. And anyone who tries to fight this disease to the last breath (e.g., my father) is certainly courageous. SignatureSteve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 Begin Lupron 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 > Perhaps a more precise way of terming it is courage. The ability and > willingness to face adverse circumstances. In the case of disease, it's the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > proclaimed a bunch of courageous heroes and will brook no dissent. Sit down, > shut up, and wear the moniker. >Subject: Re: Biopsy Question >From: "Steve Kramer" skramer@cinci.rr.com >Date: 10/28/2003 4:44 AM Central Standard Time >Message-id: <aMrnb.90295$uJ2.12863@fe3.columbus.rr.com> > >Then he'd be a scientist. No, a scientist does not do it to himself. The point is, is he doing it out of a distrust and disdain of the medical establishment? His action might actually help us all in the end, but that result does not make him a hero if his motivation is personal. O.K. I can accept that. SignatureSteve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 Begin Lupron 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 > >Subject: Re: Biopsy Question > >From: "Steve Kramer" skramer@cinci.rr.com [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > help us all in the end, but that result does not make him a hero if his > motivation is personal. I'm sorry but I don't think Martin is a hero or that he is being courageous for others. Frankly, I think he is just one hard-headed guy who could not accept the fact that, despite his "healthy" lifestyle, he got cancer. In general I have to admire him or anyone willing to die for their convictions, but he has long since lost the battle and proved he was wrong [to us anyway], and should stop misleading others who may be looking for any excuse not to take the difficult but necessary road. Bill Denton RP 2/12/02 Memphis I'll drink to that one. Martin is indeed a hero. Not unlike the researchers of the past. Whether or not Martin succeeds, I know for sure that I don't have the balls to do what he is doing. Chuck H. Heroic? Courageous? It's possible that Martin is all that. I wouldn't know. The only thing I feel I can definitely conclude from Martin's diary on treatment is that he doesn't understand the concept of science. He imagines that science provides one way to look at the world but equally or more valid worldviews are also possible. We seem to have a choice. We can use theoretical analysis confirmed or disconfirmed by experimental evidence, as one method of drawing conclusions about cancer treatment. It often tells us things we wish we didn't have to hear. Or alternatively we can use ... What? Wishfull thinking? Forcefully asserted claims backed by zero evidence? Poetical statements? Sudden intuition? Random chance? Martin may be a hero who imagines that his chances are low but he's going to be a guinea pig for a treatment he hopes will help others. Or he may just be a poor soul who fell for the soothing talk of some con man who convinced him that scientific medicine is a disaster and quackery, in the guise of homeopathy or laetrile or some other window dressing, is the safer course towards a longer life. Bill Denton's characterization of him as "... one hard-headed guy who could not accept the fact that, despite his "healthy" lifestyle, he got cancer." may be right on the money. Alan > Heroes? Nah, we risk nothing. What we have, we have. We didn't ask for it > or offer to take it for the good of anyone else. We have warriors. That is [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > > > Tom Shearon Mine was 12, as I recall (seems like so long ago, now) and I remember passing one clot. Shot it out against the back of a urinal like it was a spit ball from a straw. I am sure glad I was warned ahead of time. Otherwise, it would have scared the sh.t out of me. SignatureSteve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 Begin Lupron 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 > > > I had a biopsy (14 specimens) on October 6, it is now October 17 and I'm [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > whether there is anything dangerous about it, or anything that can > or should be done? ROFL!! I love your bizarre sense of humour and descriptive phrasing.....grin. The night of Ron's first HDR procedure, he was in a lot of pain and after his 3rd trip to the bathroom came out and said almost exactly the same thing.......except he fired out two inch long clots. No pain when urinating after that!! After the biopsy, he had some blood in the urine for a couple of days, which I believe is quite normal. Ron gets his first checkup and PSA on the 30th.......a bit too soon I think to see a big drop, as radiation only finished 6 weeks ago. But it should be interesting to see what it is. I suppose this is because he is part of a study.......these two rad oncs have been doing this procedure for 2 years with excellent results and are now documenting all the various types of radiation treatments and combinations that they do. My brother-in-law (minor T1 Pca) had 42 EBRT and his PSA dropped from 4.6 to 0.46 in 3 months.......that surprised me (and him). Best.....Heather from the Great White North (no snow yet, but down to freezing at night) > Mine was 12, as I recall (seems like so long ago, now) and I remember > passing one clot. Shot it out against the back of a urinal like it was a [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > whether there is anything dangerous about it, or anything that can > > or should be done? Slight clarification re brother-in-law.......his PSA was 4.6 at Xmas......had 42 radiation treatments from April to June.......and then it was 3 months till the low 0.46 one......but I guess you all knew that....grin. Cheers....Heather > ROFL!! I love your bizarre sense of humour and descriptive > phrasing.....grin. [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > > whether there is anything dangerous about it, or anything that can > > > or should be done? Blood in urine stopped a week ago. Guess all is normal in that department. Visiting radiologist this Thursday to get scoop on rad treatments. Thanks to all who replied. Will be in touch. Jerry > Slight clarification re brother-in-law.......his PSA was 4.6 at > Xmas......had 42 radiation treatments from April to June.......and then [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > > > whether there is anything dangerous about it, or anything that can > > > > or should be done? Heather, His drop will be amertorized (damn, my brain isn't working. I know that's the wrong spelling), more or less, but there will be a drop. And any drop is great news. SignatureSteve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 Begin Lupron 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 > ROFL!! I love your bizarre sense of humour and descriptive > phrasing.....grin. [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > > whether there is anything dangerous about it, or anything that can > > > or should be done? Thanks, Steve. We are calm and curious......not worried. We have great faith in our doctors and our choice of treatment. I spoke to Dr. Loblaw's nurse last week and she said that this would not be vastly lower......so we know that ahead of time. I was astounded that it dropped from Feb. to June by 1.5 points prior to treatment......considering it had doubled in the previous 6 months (or one year.....we are not sure). And is the word 'amortized'?? As in mortgaging? Meaning spread out over a longer period of time, I guess. Only worked in real estate for 15 years and can't give you a dictionary definition, grin!! We also have great faith in the best wishes and prayers of our friends who have been tremendous during this ordeal. I think they were the ones that kept us on track. And the great people on this group, even though none of you have used this particular method of treatment. But you were there to explain things to me when I was totally devastated by this diagnosis. And last, but by no means least......Ron has the most incredibly positive outlook on it all.......and that is at least half the battle. We are big believers in the power of the mind. But he has amazed me. Cheers.....Heather > Heather, > > His drop will be amertorized (damn, my brain isn't working. I know that's > the wrong spelling), more or less, but there will be a drop. And any drop > is great news. Amortized is correct. It finally hit me after I hit SEND. But, I was thinking more in terms of the balk of the interest being paid up front and mostly principle in the end. But, that is really a straight-line decline whereas cancer cell destruction is more of a concave curve. SignatureSteve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 Begin Lupron 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 > Thanks, Steve. We are calm and curious......not worried. We have great > faith in our doctors and our choice of treatment. I spoke to Dr. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > drop > > is great news. > The night of Ron's first HDR procedure, he was in a lot of pain and > after his 3rd trip to the bathroom came out and said almost exactly the > same thing.......except he fired out two inch long clots. No pain when > urinating after that!! Heather, Was Ron's penis catheterized for the HDR? If so, I presume the clots came out after the catheter was removed. I've been told that I would be catheterized, that the catheter will be removed about 2 hours after I wake up, and that I better then pee for the doctor or she'll put it right back in. Tubes in the penis, sensors up the rectum, tube down the throat, hospital gowns - oh the indignity of it all! If only the alternative weren't so unappetizing. Hi Alan........see inline comments....... > > The night of Ron's first HDR procedure, he was in a lot of pain and > > after his 3rd trip to the bathroom came out and said almost exactly the same thing.......except he fired out two inch long clots. No pain when > > urinating after that!! > > Heather, > > Was Ron's penis catheterized for the HDR? If so, I presume the clots > came out after the catheter was removed. Yes......but the clots didn't come out till after he was home for a couple of hours.......and it was a 90 minute drive home. They did various things via the catheter and I saw the blood in the urine while I was with him in the Recovery Room for 6 hours. > I've been told that I would be catheterized, that the catheter will be > removed about 2 hours after I wake up, and that I better then pee for > the doctor or she'll put it right back in. Ron had a saddle block (frozen from the waist down).....he didn't want to be put out.......this man has only ever had his appendix out when he was 7, so hospitals are a bit nerve-wracking to him. Btw......doing it while awake (with some valium type drug in his IV) was a piece of cake......no pain, no problems and he could eat breakfast once the 18 needles were in. He was in and out of the OR and Cat Scan room and mostly in the Recovery Room. And he couldn't leave till the freezing was out of his legs and he could pee for the nurse. No problem in doing so. The freezing in the pelvic area lasted for about the amount of time it took to drive home. The he took a Tylenol 3. Only ever took about 3 of those. > Tubes in the penis, sensors up the rectum, tube down the throat, > hospital gowns - oh the indignity of it all! If only the alternative > weren't so unappetizing. Alan.....it is undignified, but so much better than the alternative. He couldn't feel any of the tubes or sensors. And I know that the tube down the throat leaves you with a bit of a sore throat......but all in all, it was not a bad experience. Will they expect your wife to be with you? They did with me. I was able to talk to him, get him breakfast and a book. He was quite relaxed and content for the whole 6 hours. The only nasty part was the blasted CitroMag and the enema the day before. We stayed in a hotel room close to the hospital because it is a 90 minute drive from home and we had to be there at 7 am. Out of curiosity I asked him which time was more 'scarey'......the first when he had no idea what was going to happen.......or the second one a week later when he did know. He said the First One. I am a firm believer in knowing everything that will go on.....then there are no surprises. He is the opposite. Best......Heather (and Ron) |
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