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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / April 2006LATEST PSA UNDERMINES IMMUNE SYSTEM + SUPPLEMENT THEORY
Well, after my PSA went from .60 7/05 to only .67 1/06 I thought my robust immune system and the supplements I have been taking might have this ole disease under control. Not so. My uro called yesterday w/ the latest results - a rather shocking 1.1! So it went up only .07 or <12% in 6 mos. followed by a .43 or 64% increase in 3 mos. That seems somewhat inconguous to me so I am going to have the test run again w/ a new sample, but it still is foreboding news nevertheless. I am also going to try to see a new med-onc at Vanderbilt and see what he thinks. My uro can' wait to do another DRE but I'm not sure of the Dx value it has because I assume I have a local and systemic recurrence and that the PSA surge is due to growth of the latter. Has anyone had a jump like this? Bill Denton RP 2/12/02 PSA 1.1 Memphis Having charted it, I'm guessing it shows a doubling rate of little over one year. I think you should seriously consider SRT.  SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 Non Illegitimi Carborundum > Well, after my PSA went from .60 7/05 to only .67 1/06 I thought my > robust immune system and the supplements I have been taking might have [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > PSA 1.1 > Memphis > Having charted it, I'm guessing it shows a doubling rate of little over one > year. > > I think you should seriously consider SRT. I don't know if doubling rates are reliable when PSA values are very low like this. But I agree with Steve that a consultation with a radiation oncologist is in order - perhaps ASAP. Alan >> Having charted it, I'm guessing it shows a doubling rate of little over one >> year. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > very low like this. But I agree with Steve that a consultation > with a radiation oncologist is in order - perhaps ASAP. From what I've seen in the lit and had confirmed by my onc, 0.6 and 0.67 are well into the PSA DT calculation range and the 1.1 is PAST the optimal SRT action threshold. I.P. ... > From what I've seen in the lit and had confirmed by my onc, 0.6 and > 0.67 are well into the PSA DT calculation range and the 1.1 is PAST the > optimal SRT action threshold. ... That may well be so. But it's time to hie off to see a radiation oncologist and get an expert opinion - still with priority = ASAP. That's my inexpert 2 cents. Alan > ... >> From what I've seen in the lit and had confirmed by my onc, 0.6 and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > That's my inexpert 2 cents. I was agreeing with you, Alan, with emphasis, not opposing your advice. I.P. If the doubling rate is over a year then it would make sense that it is a local recurrence. To me, doubling rate counts for all psa readings low or high. Sure supplements help, sunlight, diet, exercise, positive attitude, etc... all work. It can slow the progression down and maybe even keep it at bay. To what degree and dose you take these things in combination for effectiveness is anyones guess. There may be some guy out there that eats habanero peppers daily with tomato sauce and drinks green tea all day after excercising for 2hrs and running 5 miles a day with a Gleason 8 that will live to be 90+. Realistically, Surgery and Radiation are the only things I know at this time that can kill/cure prostate cancer. If it is a local recurrence and it gets zapped even at 1.1 it could go down to <0.1. The treatment and process in entirely different than even a few years ago. The new statistics are looking at 70-80% success rates at 5 years. Bill seemed to be against Salvage. He had good reasons. He is doing something right if his doubling time is greater than 1 year. I took a shot at Salvage and it worked - so far - for 3 years. At the very least it has bought time. It's his call. I am behind him and wish him the best regardless of his choice. Dave P To remind everyone, I had RP 2/12/02 w/ PSA 33, GS 7 (has been reported both ways - take your pick), + margins, and seminal vesicle involvement. My PSA was <.1 until 10/02 and had gradually risen since. It had risen pleasantly slowly until now. Primarilly because of the SVI and the SEs., I have pretty much decide not to have SRT. Although each uro, med-onc, and rad-onc I have seen (including at M.D. Anderson) said that SRT was the only chance of cure, each and every one has also agreed w/ my statistical assessment of my case. Had I intended to have SRT I would have done it a year ago. I have made an appointment w/ med-onc Bruce Roth at Vanderbilt to see if he thinks I should start HT. Roth was one of Lance Armstrong's doctors when he was at Indiana. Bill Denton RP 2/12/02 PSA 1.1 Memphis > To remind everyone, I had RP 2/12/02 w/ PSA 33, GS 7 (has been reported > both ways - take your pick), + margins, and seminal vesicle [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > med-onc Bruce Roth at Vanderbilt to see if he thinks I should start HT. > Roth was one of Lance Armstrong's doctors when he was at Indiana. I'm sorry to hear that, Bill. But, the decision is made and, as we've always said here, no looking back. I wish you a long and SE-free life. SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 Non Illegitimi Carborundum Are SE side effects. To be honest, I had little to no side effects from the radiation. Still get an erection No leaking - only when running. That's it. However, who knows what long term effects will occur. But I am living one day at a time anyway. Dave P To remind everyone, I had RP 2/12/02 w/ PSA 33, GS 7 (has been reported both ways - take your pick), + margins, and seminal vesicle involvement. My PSA was <.1 until 10/02 and had gradually risen since. It had risen pleasantly slowly until now. Primarilly because of the SVI and the SEs., I have pretty much decide not to have SRT. Although each uro, med-onc, and rad-onc I have seen (including at M.D. Anderson) said that SRT was the only chance of cure, each and every one has also agreed w/ my statistical assessment of my case. Had I intended to have SRT I would have done it a year ago. I have made an appointment w/ med-onc Bruce Roth at Vanderbilt to see if he thinks I should start HT. Roth was one of Lance Armstrong's doctors when he was at Indiana. Bill Denton RP 2/12/02 PSA 1.1 Memphis > Primarilly because of the SVI > and the SEs., I have pretty much decide not to have SRT. I'm very likely to face that dilemma within a few years, and am so far less sure than you about it. A 30% likelihood of cure w/SVI (according to a study with actual data) is a pretty good carrot; I still need to evaluate the stick (the SE scenario). My negative margins, however, do not bode well for a cure from SRT. I.P. I.P., I'm sure I could find it w/ some effort but could you cite me to such a study? And let me try to shoot it down? :-) The numbers I have been working on are in the single digits. Bill Denton RP 2/12/02 PSA 1.1 Memphis > I.P., I'm sure I could find it w/ some effort but could you cite me to > such a study? And let me try to shoot it down? :-) The numbers I have > been working on are in the single digits. I was about to offer to ask my onc for his reference, but Google nailed it in the third hit. See http://www.asco.org/portal/site/ASCO/menuitem.c543a013502b2a89de912310320041a0/? vgnextoid=65ee3d6ad4d89010VgnVCM100000ed730ad1RCRD or Google ASCO - Management of Advanced Prostate Cancer. That's going in my cancer file now. I.P. >> I.P., I'm sure I could find it w/ some effort but could you cite me to >> such a study? And let me try to shoot it down? :-) The numbers I have [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I.P. Me, too. It's really timely. Naaman > I.P. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> That's going in my cancer file now. > Me, too. It's really timely. Mighta been much more timely for me a year ago, shortly after my RP, but then so would have been a better doctor two years ago. Oh, well, I still have some room in my PSA. Maybe . . . I.P. |
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