Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / April 2006
Marathon Training
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Dave P - 05 Apr 2006 20:52 GMT I want to run a marathon - or at least start training for one. I also want to complete a triathlon.
I have a question to the group.
How many runners do we have here?
Just wanted to know if I should keep an eye out for warnings etc.
I work out in the weight room daily and do the treadmill.
Always wanted to do a marathon and triathlon.
Best wishes everyone
Dave P
<0.1 after RP 10.15.02 and salvage 4.1.03
I.P. Freely - 05 Apr 2006 21:29 GMT > I want to run a marathon Great goal. But realize that level of exercise impairs our immune system measurably.
I.P.
Alan Meyer - 05 Apr 2006 22:02 GMT >> I want to run a marathon > > Great goal. But realize that level of exercise impairs our immune system measurably. How long does the impairment last? Is that just while your body is under stress during the exercise? You'd think that, ultimately, it would make everything in your body stronger.
(But of course things aren't always what "you'd think" they are.)
Alan
I.P. Freely - 06 Apr 2006 18:54 GMT >>> I want to run a marathon >> Great goal. But realize that level of exercise impairs our immune system measurably. > > How long does the impairment last? Is that just while your > body is under stress during the exercise? You'd think that, > ultimately, it would make everything in your body stronger. A marathon -- or serious long or intense training for same -- impacts the immune system in several ways, for hours to a day. It's been studied for many years, so various trial results are available on Google, addressing blood chemistry changes and incidence of illness. Some even address the impact of exercise on cancer patients. It's something I'd check out before embarking on long distance running, if I were so inclined. I'd guess 5ks or 10ks would be far more prudent goals for a cancer pt, but then personal satisfaction is a big issue, too; if playing hard all day lets me catch me a bug or boosts a few cancer cells, so be it.
I.P.
Bob Anthony - 06 Apr 2006 21:06 GMT Two words...Lance Armstrong! Go for it. But do make sure every other bodily system is up for this very rugged challenge though, like your cardio-pulmonary system for one. Did you get an EKG recently?
B.A.
Bob Anthony - 06 Apr 2006 21:09 GMT I.P.
Sorry for the mispost. I meant it for Dave.
B.A.
Steve Kramer - 06 Apr 2006 23:21 GMT >> I want to run a marathon > > Great goal. But realize that level of exercise impairs our immune system > measurably. Exercise? Or significant weight loss? I was told a weight loss of 10% or more (no time condition mentioned) can impair your immune system, but this is the first I've heard that exercise can.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 Non Illegitimi Carborundum
I.P. Freely - 07 Apr 2006 01:25 GMT >>> I want to run a marathon >> Great goal. But realize that level of exercise impairs our immune system [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > more (no time condition mentioned) can impair your immune system, but this > is the first I've heard that exercise can. Google.
I.P.
Steve Kramer - 07 Apr 2006 17:29 GMT >>>> I want to run a marathon >>> Great goal. But realize that level of exercise impairs our immune system [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I.P. Is that used as a verb or a noun?
I don't know if you're telling me to look it up myself, and by extension everyone else, or if you're just citing your source.
However, now that I'm wearing new glasses, I just noted "that level" in your original statement. So, I guess the answer is "both." That level of exercise and/or a significant weight loss can impair one's immune system.
I.P. Freely - 08 Apr 2006 03:48 GMT > I.P. sed >> Google.
> Is that used as a verb or a noun? Yep.
> I don't know if you're telling me to look it up myself, and by extension > everyone else, or if you're just citing your source. > > However, now that I'm wearing new glasses, I just noted "that level" in your > original statement. So, I guess the answer is "both." All three.
> That level of > exercise and/or a significant weight loss can impair one's immune system. If you guys would quit arguing with the messenger or postulating "I think . . . " and actually . . . you know . . . Google up the research just as you do with cancer or lawn care, you'd see that the stress of marathon-level training and running all by itself -- aside from losing weight -- impairs our immune systems measurably. ;-)
Where anyone wants to take this information from many studies is a personal matter. I would think that casual training sufficient to get one through one marathon before dark is going to improve one's mindset much more than it would promote his cancer. It's just information, guys . . . one more pixel in the whole PC picture.
I.P.
Bob Anthony - 06 Apr 2006 21:07 GMT Meant for Dave...sorry I.P. Two words...Lance Armstrong! Go for it. But do make sure every other bodily system is up for this very rugged challenge though, like your cardio-pulmonary system for one. Did you get an EKG recently?
B.A.
dale.j. - 06 Apr 2006 23:24 GMT > I want to run a marathon - or at least start training for one. I also > want to complete a triathlon. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > <0.1 after RP 10.15.02 and salvage 4.1.03 I run every day, only for mine own happiness. I'm 63 and had the RP in Dec 02.
Dalej
 Signature Email: dalej2@mac.com
I.P. Freely - 07 Apr 2006 01:29 GMT > I run every day, only for mine own happiness. I exercise very often, too. But obviously some people don't realize the health differences between running and running marathon distances.
I.P.
Dave - 07 Apr 2006 11:01 GMT > I want to run a marathon - or at least start training for one. I also > want to complete a triathlon. Go for it, great goal, make sure you prepare well and you will reap the benefits.
> I have a question to the group. > > How many runners do we have here? I've been running for just over a year and have never felt better (never run in my life before) and lost 10kg. I will be doing a half this year (July - Gold Coast) and a full marathon - who knows? Currently running about 40 km a week, rest a couple of days a week.
> Just wanted to know if I should keep an eye out for warnings etc. Listen to your body, get a decent training program (plenty available on the net), take it easy at first, build up to it. If you've never run "distances" before then set some smaller goals before tackling the big one. Don't rush it, you want to be around to enjoy the experience. Do some fun runs, 5km, 10km, a half, first. Join a running club, talk to others that have done it.
> I work out in the weight room daily and do the treadmill. Run to live, live to run! If the goal is right for you then success is inevitable, it's only the timing that is variable.
Good luck. Dave Dec 03 Age 51, PSA 10.8 Jan 04 Dx PCa T2a Gleason 5 Mar 04 RRP, post op path good, all contained May 04 cystoscopy & BNI now pi**ing like racehorse PSA June 04 < 0.01 PSA Nov 04 < 0.01 PSA Feb 05 < 0.01 PSA May 05 < 0.01 PSA Sept 05 < 0.01 PSA Dec 05 < 0.01
Dave - 07 Apr 2006 11:05 GMT >> Just wanted to know if I should keep an eye out for warnings etc. Forgot to mention, I still leak like a sieve when I run but who cares, I'm soaked with sweat when I get to the end of a decent run anyway :-)
> Good luck. > Dave [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > PSA Sept 05 < 0.01 > PSA Dec 05 < 0.01 Dave P - 07 Apr 2006 16:01 GMT Thanks Guys,
My next PSA test is coming up in May. I will be 3 years out from my salvage radiation treatment. Last one was <0.01 in mid November. From where I came from 3 years ago - I thank God I am even able to think about running and exercising. I will fight this battle with PCa and all the associated havoc it has caused with all I have. Thanks for responding . Although I only check in weekly I pray for everyone and still remember those that had helped me more than anyone. We are all at different places with this disease. Never, never quit.
Dave P.
I.P. Freely - 08 Apr 2006 03:19 GMT >>> Just wanted to know if I should keep an eye out for warnings etc. >> > Forgot to mention, I still leak like a sieve when I run but who cares, > I'm soaked with sweat when I get to the end of a decent run anyway :-) Try a trampoline or rebounder! I can do anything ELSE in the gym for many hours and stay quite dry except for sweat, but 10 minutes on a rebounder (a 4-foot-wide trampoline) and my bladder's empty and my gym shorts are soaked. Gave THAT idea up real fast.
I.P.
Leonard Evens - 07 Apr 2006 16:31 GMT > I want to run a marathon - or at least start training for one. I also > want to complete a triathlon. > > I have a question to the group. > > How many runners do we have here? I used to be a competitive runner for my age. I ran two marathons and numerous shorter distance races. But I developed various back and hip problems, some possibly related to the running, so I had to stop. I don't think I was more vlunerable to infections during this time. I now bicycle two to three times a week for up to two hours at a time, and I try to walk the rest of the time. My back acts up if I up the intensity, but I try to do the best I can at age 72.
> Just wanted to know if I should keep an eye out for warnings etc. I've never seen any studies which suggest that runners are more vlunerable to cancer than non-runners, but I'm hardly an expert. If you take a long time to build up your mileage and do enough long (20+ miles) training runs before it, my guess--and it is only that---is that it shouldn't be too stressful to run a marathon with no time goals in mind, just to finish. But to obtain a good time might be very stressful. It could take a week or two to recover, but I don't know if you would be vlunerable to disease during that time. The most obvious adverse health effects of marathon training would send you to an orthopedic surgeon rather than a cancer specialist.
Of course, running, or any extensive aerobic training, will help keep your weight and blood pressure down and help develop collateral circulation, so you would be more likely to survive a heart attack were you to have one. Similarly, you are less likely to experience side effects of surgery and other aggressive medical procedures. But of course, the amount of training necessary to do a marathon is two or three times what would be adequate for health benefits.
> I work out in the weight room daily and do the treadmill. > > Always wanted to do a marathon and triathlon. A triathalon always seemed crazy to me because of the amount of training necessary.
> Best wishes everyone > > Dave P > > <0.1 after RP 10.15.02 and salvage 4.1.03 I.P. Freely - 08 Apr 2006 03:33 GMT > I don't think I was more vulnerable to infections during this time. Thus the research. We also once thought that ulcers were caused by stress.
I.P.
Alan Meyer - 07 Apr 2006 17:51 GMT I ran several times a week for many years, and did a lot of cycling too. Now, my heels won't take hard runs any more, and my knees get cranky after either a hard run or a stiff uphill bike ride.
So now I mostly use an elliptical trainer for aerobic exercise. I like it because it's very low impact - really no more than bicycling, it seems to be less stressful on the knees than either running or cycling, and it gives some upper body workout at the same time. Finally, I can read a book while I use the machine.
Alan
I.P. Freely - 08 Apr 2006 04:07 GMT > I ran several times a week for many years, and did a lot > of cycling too. Now, my heels won't take hard runs any [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > workout at the same time. Finally, I can read a book while > I use the machine. I agree. I've always been quite proud that I've never run a step unless chasing something fun, running from something NOT fun, or ordered to do so by my commanding officer. (I did try jogging for a year to see what I was missing, but never saw the point.) But the elliptical trainer is almost tolerable, for several reasons from knee problems to rotator cuff rehab.
Speaking of which . . . our rotator cuffs atrophy to virtually nonexistent my our age if we don't deliberately and specifically exercise them regularly. Why do we care if we're not a quarterback? Because they stabilize our shoulder joints, and many aging shoulders encounter very significant pain and disability easily avoidable by a suite of easy, very light weight (3-4 pounds) exercises. It is FAR easier to keep them functional than to rebuild them once they're gone.
Google. (Hint: the biggest loss is in the supraspinatus muscle, one of four rotator cuff muscles.)
I.P.
Naaman - 08 Apr 2006 05:28 GMT >> I ran several times a week for many years, and did a lot >> of cycling too. Now, my heels won't take hard runs any [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > I.P. Interesting that you bring up rotator cuffs as I'm trying to work in a shoulder scoping around educating myself on PCa and visiting my urologist. Supposed to have gotten it (shoulder) done a three months ago but a hernia and a viral infection intervened.
Naaman
I.P. Freely - 08 Apr 2006 22:54 GMT > Interesting that you bring up rotator cuffs as I'm trying to work in a > shoulder scoping around educating myself on PCa and visiting my > urologist. Supposed to have gotten it (shoulder) done a three months ago > but a hernia and a viral infection intervened. Yeah, them shoulder hernias are a PITA. ;-)
Two common shoulder problems include acromion impingement and rotator cuff atrophy, and the latter can cause or exacerbate the former. I've had both, and both are often repairable with little more hassle than an RP. Physical therapy may fix both if mild impingement is caused by cuff atrophy; I got shoulder arthroscopic surgery because I had several problems in there, and am now working my cuff back in shape.
I.P.
Doug Taylor - 09 Apr 2006 14:40 GMT >I want to run a marathon - or at least start training for one. I also >want to complete a triathlon. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Always wanted to do a marathon and triathlon. I gave up running about 15 years ago due to knee issues and have been an avid cyclist and inline speed skater ever since. I do around 100 - 150 miles on the bike, and another 15 - 25 miles on the skates, per week in the warm months (x-c, downhill skiing + ice speedskating in the winter).
Last fall I did a marathon on the skates in Ottawa Canada and did well in my age group (50+), finishing in 1 hour 31 minutes. I plan to do two this season. Skating is approximately half or a tad less the effort of running: the world record marathon time for skating is about 58 minutes, just under half the record for running.
With skating and cycling, you get most or all of the physical benefits of running with none of the bone and joint problems.
Can't say I can think of ANY detriment from all this activity. It keeps me happy and occupied and if I were you, I would go for it without any hesitation. You are a PCa survivor, not an invalid. The only thing different about you than any other man your age is that you leak and can't get it up :-) So put your energies into other "manly" pursuits, and kick some butt on the road...
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