Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / March 2006
appraising the surgeon's skills?
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rosbif - 20 Mar 2006 08:57 GMT Still in a dither about which Tx to opt for though my 'eligibility' for surgery is pulling me that way . Of course most contributors here are from the US so I guess this will be hard to answer for me in the UK, but I wonder how proactive patients are in seeking out the most skilled? How does one go about it?
Leonard Evens - 20 Mar 2006 16:12 GMT > Still in a dither about which Tx to opt for though my 'eligibility' > for surgery is pulling me that way . Of course most contributors here > are from the US so I guess this will be hard to answer for me in the > UK, but I wonder how proactive patients are in seeking out the most > skilled? How does one go about it? Despite the supposed freedom to choose one's own doctor, few of us in the US are entirely free to choose a surgeon. Usually our health insurance plans restrict us to certain preferred providers. Also, even if there were no such restrictions, common sense suggests that the very best surgeons can handle only a limited number of cases. The first thing is to check the surgeons qualifications by seeing where he did his training. Also, ask him how many such procedures he has done and how often he does them. Similarly for the hospital where the procedure will be performed. Also, ask about typical results for a patient like yourself with respect to recurrence rates and side effects. In the US, you can call one of the centers such as those at Johns Hopkins or Sloan Kettering and ask for a reference to a local surgeon. Walsh in his Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer gives a list of questions to pose to a potential surgeon.
Keep in mind that it is the skill of the particular surgeon that counts, not whether or not he is famous. But you can compare the results your surgeons reports with that from the best surgeons. For example, in a man under 60, the best surgeons can preserve potency in 80 percent or more of their patients. If your surgeon has a success rate of 40 percent for such men, he is clearly not proficient in that aspect of the procedure. On the other hand, even the very best surgeons have little luck preserving potency in men over 70.
My case might be instructive. I just went to the urologist my primary care physician referred me to, and it turned out he has one of the better reputations in the area. At the time I considered trying to have the surgery done at Hopkins by Dr. Walsh or one of his colleagues, paying for it myself, but I decided the chances of a cure in my case would not be significantly different and the chances of avoiding impotence at age 66 not enough higher to justify the cost. My surgeon certainly seemed to have done well with me, so I have no regrets.
At the time, there weren't any "star" surgeons in the area, but since then Dr. William Catalona has moved to Northwestern in Chicago, and at least one man posting here has used him. Paradoxically, were I deciding today, I probably would still not be able to use Dr. Catalona unless I wanted to pay for the procedure myself because his medical group doesn't accept my particular health plan, which is one of the largest in Illinois. And, both Dr. Catalona and I are Northwestern faculty, he in the Medical School and I in the College of Arts and Sciences.
colophony - 20 Mar 2006 17:57 GMT LEONARD, when you say "I have no regrets" does it mean you recovered very fast your sexual capabilities? If so, after how many months? Thanks Colophony
>> Still in a dither about which Tx to opt for though my 'eligibility' >> for surgery is pulling me that way . Of course most contributors here [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > both Dr. Catalona and I are Northwestern faculty, he in the Medical School > and I in the College of Arts and Sciences. rosbif - 21 Mar 2006 13:42 GMT >> Still in a dither about which Tx to opt for though my 'eligibility' >> for surgery is pulling me that way . Of course most contributors here [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Keep in mind that it is the skill of the particular surgeon that counts, >not whether or not he is famous. The skill of course - in fact I'm allergic to celebrity. In the UK it's celebrity chefs we have in abundance - the only surgeons achieving high public profile are usually either murderers or those about to be struck off!
>But you can compare the results your >surgeons reports with that from the best surgeons. For example, in a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >procedure. On the other hand, even the very best surgeons have little >luck preserving potency in men over 70. The consultant I saw, without actually putting a figure on it, was pretty downbeat on the prospect of saving potency. But I wonder if you're not raising my expectation too high in mentioning the 80%? I note Scardino makes mention of some surgeons cherry picking their patients to keep these figures high.
Does anyone have any sense of how the figures run for those who've posted here and reported back about success/failure?
>My case might be instructive. I just went to the urologist my primary >care physician referred me to, and it turned out he has one of the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Illinois. And, both Dr. Catalona and I are Northwestern faculty, he in >the Medical School and I in the College of Arts and Sciences. It's as I feared - the US contingent here will be able to offer little that's relevant to the UK situation but thank you for taking the trouble to reply Leonard.
RonL - 21 Mar 2006 18:59 GMT Another idea, in case you haven't thought of it yet: seek out local support groups, either at meetings or through their websites. Or if nothing locally, check the websites for the larger ones in major cities. Start here:
http://www.ustoo.com/chapter_nearyou.asp
You'll find 3 numbers and 2 e-addresses for the UK. Call/write them. Make contacts, and they may lead to referrals or recommendations. I did this with the NYC UsToo website, spoke with a wonderfully empathic fellow, and got another endorsement of the surgeon/hospital I was contemplating.
Good wishes, RonL
> It's as I feared - the US contingent here will be able to offer little > that's relevant to the UK situation but thank you for taking the > trouble to reply Leonard. rosbif - 21 Mar 2006 20:59 GMT >Another idea, in case you haven't thought of it yet: seek out local support >groups, either at meetings or through their websites. Or if nothing [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Good wishes, RonL that's a useful lead - thanks.
>> It's as I feared - the US contingent here will be able to offer little >> that's relevant to the UK situation but thank you for taking the >> trouble to reply Leonard. juniper - 22 Mar 2006 03:16 GMT You know, there are other factors besides the surgeon's skill. Depending on your PSA and biopsies, the surgeon may be thinking more about your specific case than general numbers. Still, the question is does he or doesn't he have the skill to spare nerves if circumstances warrant once surgery is in progress. Our doctor told us first off "I guarantee you will have erections." Guess he wanted to get something positive in there before we started talking about chances of sparing nerves. However, it also told us that he cared (or knew we cared) about sex after. So that was a plus.
rosbif, what is your situation as far as psa, biopsy, all that?
> The consultant I saw, without actually putting a figure on it, was > pretty downbeat on the prospect of saving potency. But I wonder if [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Does anyone have any sense of how the figures run for those who've > posted here and reported back about success/failure? rosbif - 23 Mar 2006 09:19 GMT Hi juniper, I'm sorry to hear your news this morning...
>You know, there are other factors besides the surgeon's skill. >Depending on your PSA and biopsies, the surgeon may be thinking more >about your specific case than general numbers. Yes, I see what you're saying, practiced instinct etc.
> Still, the question is >does he or doesn't he have the skill to spare nerves if circumstances [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >rosbif, what is your situation as far as psa, biopsy, all that? 61 yrs, psa7, 3 of 10 cores gl(3+4) 30%,5%,5%
>> The consultant I saw, without actually putting a figure on it, was >> pretty downbeat on the prospect of saving potency. But I wonder if [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> Does anyone have any sense of how the figures run for those who've >> posted here and reported back about success/failure? juniper - 23 Mar 2006 14:20 GMT > Yes, I see what you're saying, practiced instinct etc. You ought to be able to assess *something*, though.
Flat-out ask him if he *ever* spares patient's nerves.
And if he says *yes*, ask what percent he spares both, what percent he spares one. I would guess it should be a hight percentage, help me out here, guys. I'm guessing 60%? Our PSA was very different, 26.
RonL - 21 Mar 2006 13:33 GMT Here's one thing I did. I went to this page:
http://www.yananow.net/Experiences.html
scrolled to the surgery section, and actually clicked on each entry. The first paragraph in most cases tells you where the person lives, so you can skip those not in UK. I actually found 2 or 3 this way who either had direct experience with a surgeon I was already contemplating, or who knew of him. Everyone I contacted was delighted to help. Yes, it's tedious, but you might find a precious lead this way. Just a thought. Good luck and good health,
RonL
>....I guess this will be hard to answer for me in the > UK, but I wonder how proactive patients are in seeking out the most > skilled? How does one go about it? rosbif - 21 Mar 2006 13:44 GMT >Here's one thing I did. I went to this page: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >RonL Cheers RonL - I'll this follow this through
>>....I guess this will be hard to answer for me in the >> UK, but I wonder how proactive patients are in seeking out the most >> skilled? How does one go about it? juniper - 22 Mar 2006 03:29 GMT > him. Everyone I contacted was delighted to help. Yes, it's tedious, but > you might find a precious lead this way. Just a thought. Good luck and You need Firefox browser. Use mouse gestures or super drag and go extensions. Drag on a link, it opens in a new tab. Drag on a bunch of links then go through the tabs one by one. (also you don't get lost with "back" and "forwards"--you can keep your main window right there and keep track of where you are.) I tried it on Yana, works great. Also its great for Google (or any) searches, because you can open all the promising results at once, then scan/close windows very fast, leaving only the ones you want to peruse open.
I know there's a learning curve, but everyone who has watched me browse has downloaded it and learned it. This isn't a sales pitch, I am only writing because it is much less tedious, and I don't want anyone on this group to experience any more tedium than fate requires.
Peter Headland - 21 Mar 2006 21:20 GMT If you are not confident of the treatment in the UK and have the money (maybe UKP20K, maybe quite a lot less), you could have it done here in the USA by one of the top men. The secret is in negotiating some all-inclusive costs up front, otherwise you get skinned.
 Signature Peter Headland
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