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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / March 2006

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penis reduction

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colophony - 27 Feb 2006 18:26 GMT
I do not know if it is only my impression but after 40 days of RP I feel my
penis reduced in size: could it be true or is only my imagination not been
able to proof it with a regular erection?
Steve Jordan - 27 Feb 2006 18:43 GMT
> I do not know if it is only my impression but after 40 days of RP I feel my
> penis reduced in size: could it be true or is only my imagination not been
> able to proof it with a regular erection?
>  
Reduction in the size of the penis is a common effect of RP. I
understand that it's often not mentioned by the surgeon.

Regards,

Steve J

"Flagrantly, 'we' docs ignore the declaration of biology. We do this out
of ignorance, greed or both. The prime directive of the physician, the
real physician, is patient outcome, & not physician income (or ego)."
-- Stephen B. Strum, MD

>  
Ron B - 27 Feb 2006 21:25 GMT
About penis size...the Walsh book will say that there is only a small
reduction in length because...the urethra and the bladder neck have to
be joined...but only about 1/4" is lost.

He says it's because the bladder is pulled downward and it just APPEARS
shorter.

The 'turtlehead' starting point gets better over time.

Using the pump, healing, and manual stimulation help to increase the
length.

Some guys maintain that it gets MUCH shorter...and it makes sense...but
I think that after healing and increased blood flow...things are not as
bad as they seem right after surgery.

But I defer to the smarter guys if they have other thoughts.

Best to all,

Ron B.

Chicago
judamd@aol.com - 27 Feb 2006 20:52 GMT
Happens all the time.  Has to do with reconnecting the ends of the
urethra after cutting out the part that went with the prostate.  I
think there is a psychological component too where little Willie is
cowering after having seen the trauma administered to his close
cohorts. :))

I've heard, and it is my personal experience, that things return to
normal after some time.  I was told the return to normalcy has to do
with the bladder settling down into the void left by the removal of the
prostate.
Dave Perry
colophony - 27 Feb 2006 21:37 GMT
thanks Dave; I really hope things get back to how they were before.
> Happens all the time.  Has to do with reconnecting the ends of the
> urethra after cutting out the part that went with the prostate.  I
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> prostate.
> Dave Perry
RR - 01 Mar 2006 05:48 GMT
Using the pump helps to get it back to normal size quicker

RR

>Happens all the time.  Has to do with reconnecting the ends of the
>urethra after cutting out the part that went with the prostate.  I
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>prostate.
>Dave Perry
Glassman - 27 Feb 2006 21:45 GMT
> I do not know if it is only my impression but after 40 days of RP I feel my
> penis reduced in size: could it be true or is only my imagination not been
> able to proof it with a regular erection?

 Flaccid size seems smaller to me, but with a Viagra raging woodrow, it
looks about right.

Signature

JK Sinrod
www.sinrodstudios.com
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

I.P. Freely - 27 Feb 2006 23:42 GMT
> I do not know if it is only my impression but after 40 days of RP I feel my
> penis reduced in size: could it be true or is only my imagination not been
> able to proof it with a regular erection?

I've got to ask: did you read any PC books, and didn't your doctors
inform you in advance this would happen with RP? It's pretty standard
stuff. You'll never be the "man" you used to be. You'll have to stand
closer to the toilet forever.

I.P.
colophony - 28 Feb 2006 10:28 GMT
no I did not read any PC books and my doc did not say anything about it; I
do not leave closer to a toilet since I need same only every 3 or 4 hours
during day and from 5 to 6 hours during night.
>> I do not know if it is only my impression but after 40 days of RP I feel
>> my penis reduced in size: could it be true or is only my imagination not
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> I.P.
I.P. Freely - 28 Feb 2006 17:28 GMT
> no I did not read any PC books and my doc did not say anything about it; I
> do not leave closer to a toilet since I need same only every 3 or 4 hours
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> You'll never be the "man" you used to be. You'll have to stand closer to
>> the toilet forever.

This translation software is pretty impressive, but it sure leaves some
gaps, doesn't it?

I.P.
Ron B - 28 Feb 2006 19:56 GMT
colophony wrote:

no I did not read any PC books and my doc did not say anything about it;
I do not leave closer to a toilet since I need same only every 3 or 4
hours during day and from 5 to 6 hours during night. "I.P. Freely"

To clarify...

I believe that I.P. meant that since the penis would be shorter...a guy
would have to stand 'closer to the toilet" to pee.

He wasn't referring to how OFTEN a guy would have to pee.

I think that he was using "I.P. Humor."

I'm sure that he'll correct me if I'm mistaken.

Best of health to all,

Ron B.

Chicago
I.P. Freely - 28 Feb 2006 21:56 GMT
> I believe that I.P. meant that since the penis would be shorter...a guy
> would have to stand 'closer to the toilet" to pee.
>
> He wasn't referring to how OFTEN a guy would have to pee.
>
> I think that he was using "I.P. Humor."

Yup. But diapers/pads (or any snug underwear) add to the apparent
shrinkage simply via compression. I almost never had trouble finding and
 aiming the dang thing prior to my surgery; now I often do ... ANOTHER
reason for standing closer to the target.

I.P.
Leonard Evens - 02 Mar 2006 14:54 GMT
>> I believe that I.P. meant that since the penis would be shorter...a guy
>> would have to stand 'closer to the toilet" to pee.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> I.P.

I also have aiming problems, but that has nothing to do with penis
length.   It is because of strictures or scar tissue resulting from the
surgery.  My urologist said he could fix it, but it hasn't yet seemed
worth the trouble since I've learned to live with it.  But there are
times when I tempted to go back to have him "rout it out".
Steve Kramer - 27 Feb 2006 23:51 GMT
Yup, it's true.  Damned sick joke, if you ask me.  Cancer, nerves shot, and
if you finally get the use back, your penis is short.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

>I do not know if it is only my impression but after 40 days of RP I feel my
>penis reduced in size: could it be true or is only my imagination not been
>able to proof it with a regular erection?
John Loomis - 28 Feb 2006 00:31 GMT
NO, No, noooooooooo,
   Erection might not happen, but penis size.......No, no , no.
I can attest to this.
I had RP, I could not get an erection for almost 2 years.  Almost.
I tried injection, pumping, and viagra....still little willie. Well, to my
surprise after slapping this little fellow into shape, he started to raise
his head!  He smiled, and with a little viagra, or none, he rose to
attention, and I do not see any size difference.
With Viagra, I get a taught, hardon, and without, depending on the urge, I
get what occurs....
Yes I lost one set of nerves, so, get out there, practice, don't hurt
yourself, and you will be amazed at nerve healing, and our bodies.
The creator was pretty smart to make 2 of everything, except the brain. Oh,
we may have 2 of those too!
So, It is your imagination, and whatever length is lost in your ideas, just
keep trying....
No sniveling here.....
Have fun,
Tell your wife or friend, you need help getting this rocket off the ground!
John Loomis
Have Fun!
>I do not know if it is only my impression but after 40 days of RP I feel my
>penis reduced in size: could it be true or is only my imagination not been
>able to proof it with a regular erection?
doubleowseven@theplacecalledyahoo.com - 02 Mar 2006 02:10 GMT
>I do not know if it is only my impression but after 40 days of RP I feel my
>penis reduced in size: could it be true or is only my imagination not been
>able to proof it with a regular erection?

I don't recall for sure which website, perhaps Dr. Cantalona's (which
I probably misspelled) but one of them has several reports of studies
that studied the question you ask.  The basic answer, if you believe
the studies, is that on AVERAGE you lose around 10% in length and not
quite that much in girth.  But some lose very very little while others
lose quite a bit more then 10%..  Some have said they think they lost
half the length.
Alex - 02 Mar 2006 03:05 GMT
>I do not know if it is only my impression but after 40 days of RP I feel my
>penis reduced in size: could it be true or is only my imagination not been
>able to proof it with a regular erection?

It's not all in your brain, at least not the one above your ears:

Report: Prostate Surgery May Shorten Penis
Wed March 26, 2003 05:51 PM ET
By Alison McCook

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - New research suggests that men who undergo
surgery to remove their prostate as a result of prostate cancer may get a
little less than they bargained for -- in terms of penis size, that is.

Researchers at the University of Miami in Florida found that men who
underwent prostate-removal surgery, known as prostatectomy, experienced a
slight decrease in the size of their flaccid and stretched penis. The length
of the stretched penis approximates the length of an erect penis.

In most cases, the size difference was quite small. But in 20 percent of the
study participants, penile length decreased by at least 15 percent.

Before undergoing prostatectomy, men should be told that they could walk
away with a slightly smaller penis, study author Dr. Mark S. Soloway told
Reuters Health.

"Probably men should be informed that it's a risk, so that they'll be
prepared for it," he said.

The knowledge that prostatectomy can decrease penis size is very new,
Soloway said, and the vast majority of men have likely never received any
such warning before surgery.

"I think very few urologists, including myself, indicate to men that
following prostatectomy, there may be a shortening of the penis," he noted.

The prostate, a gland located at the base of the bladder, contributes fluids
to semen. Prostate cancer is the most common cancer in older men, but it
only becomes invasive and life threatening in some.

In the Journal of Urology, Soloway and his team note that some men have
reported a decrease in penis size following prostatectomy for prostate
cancer, but little research has been dedicated to the concern.

To investigate this question, the researchers measured flaccid and stretched
penile length, as well as circumference, in 124 men before prostatectomy and
three months later.

All of these measures of penis size decreased after surgery, Soloway and his
colleagues report.

Before surgery, the average flaccid penile length of the men included in the
study was nine centimeters (3.5 inches) or longer, with an average stretched
penile length of at least 13 centimeters (just over 5 inches).

After the procedure, however, the median flaccid penile length fell to eight
centimeters, while the same value for stretched length dropped to 12.5
centimeters.

A total of 68 percent of participants showed a decrease in stretched penile
length, with 19 percent experiencing a decrease in length of at least 15
percent.

Many study participants also reported a marked decrease in sexual
functioning after prostatectomy, a known risk of the procedure, Soloway and
his colleagues note.

While 92 percent of patients prior to surgery reported being able to achieve
an erection, only 33 percent retained that ability three months later.

This marked impotence following surgery may, in part, explain the concurrent
decrease in penis size, Soloway suggested -- with lack of use, the penis may
shorten.

Other potential explanations include changes in the body that occur as a
result of surgery to remove the prostate, he said.

Could knowing that prostatectomy may decrease penis size inspire some men to
forgo the potentially life-saving operation?

"I don't think we know the answer to that," Soloway noted.

SOURCE: Journal of Urology 2003;169:1462-1464.
http://www.phoenix5.org/sexaids/basics/penile/ReutersShrinkStudy.html

Alex
Leonard Evens - 02 Mar 2006 15:00 GMT
>>I do not know if it is only my impression but after 40 days of RP I feel my
>>penis reduced in size: could it be true or is only my imagination not been
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Wed March 26, 2003 05:51 PM ET
> By Alison McCook

Studies of this kind, in my opinion, are just plain silly.  Does anyone
realy think he can measure penis length to the required degree of
accuracy?  And, won't expectation about the result affect the
measurement?  Finally, how do determine how much tension to put on a
particular man's penis when stretching it?

> NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - New research suggests that men who undergo
> surgery to remove their prostate as a result of prostate cancer may get a
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>
> Alex
Alex - 02 Mar 2006 15:17 GMT
>>>I do not know if it is only my impression but after 40 days of RP I feel
>>>my penis reduced in size: could it be true or is only my imagination not
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Finally, how do determine how much tension to put on a particular man's
> penis when stretching it?

My guess is that there is a pretty uniform amount of tension most penises
will accept without providing very effective feedback.
Of course, there is a wide variability in the accuracy of how men read a
ruler placed next to their penis, with an error rate probably in the range
of 200%. (g)

Alex
Roger - 03 Mar 2006 02:38 GMT
I didn't need a ruler.  I couldn't take a leak without drooping my pants for
many weeks because the poor thing couldn't clear my pants fly.

                            Roger  RRP @ age 58 on OCT 17, 2000 one nerve
spared

===============================================================================
<snip>
>> Studies of this kind, in my opinion, are just plain silly.  Does anyone
>> realy think he can measure penis length to the required degree of
>> accuracy?  And, won't expectation about the result affect the
>> measurement? Finally, how do determine how much tension to put on a
>> particular man's penis when stretching it?

<snip>

> Alex
Leonard Evens - 02 Mar 2006 14:49 GMT
> I do not know if it is only my impression but after 40 days of RP I feel my
> penis reduced in size: could it be true or is only my imagination not been
> able to proof it with a regular erection?

A lot of men claim that their penises have been reduced in size after
RP, and there are even some clinical studies which claim to verify it.
But Peter Scardino of Sloan Kettering, a leading prostate cancer surgeon
and researcher, in his book "The Prostate", claims that, except in
special circumstances, it can't happen.   His argument is based on basic
anatomy and the nature of the surgery.   He says it is true that a
section of urethra is removed with the prostate but that the penis just
can't be pulled back into the abdomen because of how it is attached.
Instead, the bladder is pulled down.   His explanation is interesting,
and I suggest you look at it.

I find his arguments convincing.  The problem, as I see it, is that the
penis can be quite variable in size, even when flaccid.  That has always
been true for me, and I think for some men it may become true after
surgery, even if they seldom experienced it before surgery.  The length
of the erect penis, or course, depends on how firm the erection is.
After surgery, even if erections approaching normal return,  they are
still not likely to be as firm as before surgery.

In my case, I don't really notice any difference without an erection,
and any differences with an erection are explainable as above.
 
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