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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / March 2006

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Lupron and weight gain

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Bob C - 25 Feb 2006 14:56 GMT
Why didn't I think of asking this question of The Group long ago? I've
followed posts here for the past five plus years and have read voumes of
advice which sometimes comes best from one who has been there. Some doctors
do not realize just how hard it is to handle ones weight while on Lupron,
mine being one of them.  Question; once the weight gain asociated with
Lupron has reached the point where it's affecting quality of life, is it
(still) useless to try and loose any of it? I have gained 48 pounds so far
after 1 year on, 1 year off, and now another 1 3/4 years back on Lurpon. I
recently went for 3 plus months per my doctors suggestion at 2000 max
calories per day and I neither lost nor gained. He said there would be a
substantial loss, guaranteeded, and that after that I would have to redo the
math and go for additional loss at a lower caloric intake. I might be just
starting to go refractory, maybe this weight thing is the least of my
worries, but I'd really like to keep fighting this thing with the intentions
of being around for some number of good years yet.  This weight thing is
causing as much grief as all the other Lupron side effects. I think?  I know
that there are a lot of us facing this problem, and suggestions and success
stories would be appreciated.  Thanks.
DP - 25 Feb 2006 18:07 GMT
> Why didn't I think of asking this question of The Group long ago? I've
> followed posts here for the past five plus years and have read voumes of
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> problem, and suggestions and success stories would be appreciated.
> Thanks.

Weight gain can be a real problem on Lupron.  I have gained a total of 20
pound on my Lupron cycles.  While on Lupron, losing weight can be VERY
difficult, as you are finding out.  Yet, 48 pounds seems little more than it
should be.  Exercise is more difficult on Lupron, both mentally and
physically.  The desire is just not there and weight training does nothing
to build and maintain muscle mass.  Walking is still one of the best
exercises that most everyone can do. If you are able to walk, you should be
walking at least 20 minutes every day.  And by that, it should be continuous
walking.  My problem with walking is that I know too many people in the
neighborhood, and tend to stop and visit too much.  One thing that struck me
as to your weight gain, have you had your thyroid checked? Even if you never
had a thyroid problem in the past, ADT can trigger or add to such a problem.
I have taken Synthroid for many years, and we check it semi annually. Your
doctor should run a complete blood test, including liver function, thyroid,
etc. on you.  Keep trying and best of luck to you.

Dale P
Denver, CO
Ron B - 25 Feb 2006 18:33 GMT
Bob C wrote about weight gain, and DP pointed out that on Lupron...guys
don't FEEL like exercising...and weight training doesn't do much.

It seems that for ALL of us, regardless of treatment plans, WALKING is
the best choice.

Wouldn't a home treadmill...(a GOOD one...but not a wallet-breaker) be
an important part of therapy?

As Joe's list of post RP items is invaluable...maybe some ideas on
treadmills would be a great help to us also.

I know that Sears, Sportmart, Dick's, the Sports Authority and
others...always have great deals.

If guys could tell which treadmills THEY bought...and the features that
THEY find helpful...it would help us all.

My best to everyone,

Ron B.

Chicago


Skids - 25 Feb 2006 19:27 GMT
I have a Weslo Cadence 930.

It will show you speed, time, distance and  calories. It has a little
"button" to put your thumb on and will show your pulse rate. It has an
adjustable incline. It also has a safety device, a cord that can go on your
wrist. If you should happen to fall (no, not yet) it will pull the "key" out
and stop the treadmill. I think I gave about $300 - $350 for it 4 or 5 years
ago.

A portable cd player with headphones is nice to have also to keep you
occupied so you don't get bored to death looking at the walls.

> Bob C wrote about weight gain, and DP pointed out that on Lupron...guys
> don't FEEL like exercising...and weight training doesn't do much.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Chicago
Steve Kramer - 26 Feb 2006 00:29 GMT
There are two in our condo weight room.  Very nice treadmills that even work
with my heart monitor to take me up and down hills depending on my heart
rate.  But, I hate walking the 100 yards to get to them.  So, I wait for
spring when I will again drive for 20 minutes so I can walk for 5 miles.

I think I am certifiable sometimes.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

>I have a Weslo Cadence 930.
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>>
>> Chicago
Bob C - 26 Feb 2006 20:31 GMT
The treadmill can be a really easy way to go for anyone who watches TV. My
wife bought a used treadmill (a Sears model, was maybe $400 or so new) and
that was put to use while recovering from prostate surgery. Could do a whole
1 1/2 mph back then! She has let me set it up in the living room so I can
watch TV while walking and that's about the biggest tip I can offer. If it
were not for being able to be entertained while doing my walk, I would never
have the ambition to keep at it. An electric fan positioned behind me, a
water bottle handy, and the volume control for the TV, and off I go. Now an
hour in front of the TV is not a total waste of time. It does not do much
for the decor, but it is a foldup type so can at least be compacted while
not in use. I suspect that heart health might be the biggest benefit from
using it, especially for anyone on ADT.
> Bob C wrote about weight gain, and DP pointed out that on Lupron...guys
> don't FEEL like exercising...and weight training doesn't do much.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Chicago
I.P. Freely - 26 Feb 2006 21:37 GMT
"Bob C" wrote...
> The treadmill can be a really easy way to go for anyone who watches TV. My
> wife bought a used treadmill (a Sears model, was maybe $400 or so new) and
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> compacted while not in use. I suspect that heart health might be the
> biggest benefit from using it, especially for anyone on ADT.

To expand on that idea ...
Buy another TV and put it in a less public room, such as the den. Most of
the TVs in my house cost well under $100, a VCR adds another $30, and the
cable company ran cable to every room in the house, including the garage and
bathrooms, for $12 a room. That way I have a cheap and permanent gym and
entertainment setup that no one has to see or trip over, and it's always
stocked with tapes of selected TV shows that I actually WANT to watch. The
fan is important to a good workout because we get a much better workout when
we're comfortable, rather than hot. Now add a few more exercise
paraphernalia and you've got your own gym, on the cheap or otherwise.

Then when the weather gets more conducive to taking it outdoors, there are
some high quality AM/FM digital pushbutton memory-select radios the size of
a deck of cards which, with good headphones or ear buds, sound at least as
good as a Bose home stereo. Or you can pack along a few hundred of your
favorite tunes on an iPod the size of three cigarettes for a whopping
hunnerd bucks. Noise-cancelling earphones can block ALL external sounds,
including lawnmowers, that Rottweiler closing in on your leg, or the horn of
the car you just stepped in front of, and there's no reason to pay Bose's
exorbitant price for them.

Heck, while shopping for a treadmill, expand your horizons to the elliptical
cross-trainers, which involve many more muscles for a much broader workout.
Don't expect anything that sells for under 4 figures new to hold up for
long, but there are many barely used models in the classified ads at good
discounts.

If cost is a HUGE issue, buy a rake and a snow shovel and keep your
neighborhood neat.

I.P.
Steve Kramer - 27 Feb 2006 00:55 GMT
Or, travel to garage sales and buy those that others bought and never used.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

> "Bob C" wrote...
>> The treadmill can be a really easy way to go for anyone who watches TV.
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> I.P.
I.P. Freely - 25 Feb 2006 20:34 GMT
"DP" <wrote
>  weight training does nothing to build and maintain muscle mass [on ADT].

Is that because we're fresh out of T and T is necessary to build muscle?
Makes sense.

I.P.
Bob C - 26 Feb 2006 20:17 GMT
Thanks Dale, I appreciate your input.  I have wondered about the thyroid
thing before but no, it has never been checked. I will see if I can get that
done in the near future. In the winter I do walk a treadmill 3-5 nights a
week for 30 minutes each time, fast enough to work up a sweat and then a
cool down at the end. I hold down a desk five days a week, maybe walking a
maximum of  1/2-1 miles during each day at a normal (slow) pace in the
factory, but usually have a moderately active weekend most weeks in the
winter with cutting firewood, maintaining a 1/2 mile driveway, snowplowing,
and walks in the woods. In the summer there is not enough time to do all the
things that need to get done.

You are right about the Lupron having both mental and physical effects upon
the desire and ability to exercise. Thinking about it, these past 8 or so
pounds have appeared while I excused myself from what appeared to be useless
time on the treadmill and useless time spent carefully counting calories. I
have just gone on Provigil to help a fatigue and sleep problem and maybe
that will help get some of the get up and go back.

How long have you been on Lupron? You say "cycles" so I assume you are doing
intermittent therapy but what length on and off and for how long now and so
on? The first year I was on it I put on 18-20 pounds. The next year plus I
was off and did notice a big increase in energy. The past 1 1/2 years back
on has produced considerably more fatigue than the first time. Thanks for
your advise, I'll ask to get the thyroid checked  on my next visit.

> Weight gain can be a real problem on Lupron.  I have gained a total of 20
> pound on my Lupron cycles.  While on Lupron, losing weight can be VERY
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Dale P
> Denver, CO
DP - 28 Feb 2006 19:51 GMT
> Thanks Dale, I appreciate your input.  I have wondered about the thyroid
> thing before but no, it has never been checked. I will see if I can get
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Thanks for your advise, I'll ask to get the thyroid checked  on my next
> visit.

I did a long stint on Lupron/Casodex from early 1999 through 2000.  I have
been off of it since then until September 2005, when I restarted the ADT.  I
think that the leaving of the work force may really help you with weight
problems.  After working and the commute, you are probably tired and don't
get the activity you could otherwise.  Also, working a desk job and
commuting can tend to lead to poorer eating habits.  You know, you grab
something on the run here and there. It can add up on you before you know
it.  Good luck in retirement, and keep moving and trying.  Keep us posted.

Dale P
I.P. Freely - 28 Feb 2006 21:51 GMT
> After working and the commute, you are probably tired and don't
> get the activity you could otherwise.  

THAT'S why finding a vigorous activity we LOVE is so important. The only
way work ever interfered with my play time was keeping me away from it.
I was literally NEVER too tired to play, simply because play was the
most important activity in my life. Example: rush home from work near
dark, grab some food, hook my snowmobile trailer to my 4x4, head up the
mountain,  ride the night away standing up moto-cross style, rush home,
grab a quick breakfast and change clothes and go back to the office ...
'cause it was Thursday morning. We went every winter Wed night, and more
commonly got back in time for a couple hours of sleep, but not always.
Or drive 100 miles from work Fri afternoon, cast for bass all night, get
back just in time to put in a 12-hour Saturday at the office. Ditto many
other sports, jobs, and locations, right up to the present.

I repeat: it's motivation (read: obsession), not time. Even when I am
doing nothing more than working out at home, some of my most vigorous
workouts began with forcing myself to put in 10 minutes ... by which
time the activity had revved me up to the degree I kept going like a
banshee with its hair on fire for the next two hours. After all,
research has shown that a brief, brisk walk beats a nap or a candy bar
for getting and keeping us awake and alert.

> working a desk job and commuting can tend to lead to poorer eating habits.  You know, you grab
> something on the run here and there.  

Allow me to modify that statement: working a desk job and commuting can
PROVIDE AN EXCUSE FOR poorer eating habits. I began eating "right"
(however one defines it) years before I retired, and work almost never
got in the way of it. I got my a.s out of bed in time for a good
breakfast (what most people would label "supper"); brown-bagged a big,
tasty, healthy lunch (I agree one can't go out for lunch and eat healthy
easily); and ate supper at home. Simple! As for all the junk food people
bring to the office, also simple: I just don't eat it. Problem solved.

And the  brown-bagged lunch got me through with lunch quickly and thus
out the door earlier in the afternoon; I got in up to 5-6 hours of
daylight playtime after work in midsummer.

Peter Pan syndrome? HELL, yes ... and it's going to keep me young until
I die. It'll keep me alive LONGER, too, if I can just do an end run
around my cancer statistics.

If no one finds these lectures motivational, I'll quit. But if just one
or two are encouraged and motivated by them, the rest of you will just
have to hit DELETE.

I.P.
Steve Kramer - 02 Mar 2006 14:53 GMT
Of course, it's always nice to have an ocean on one side and mountains on
the other.  Fishing in and around Cincinnati usually involves a float and
housr of sheer boredom.  I haven't seen a snowmobile in 20 years.  And the
last time I tried windsurfing on the Ohio River, I almost got hit by a
barge.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

>> After working and the commute, you are probably tired and don't get the
>> activity you could otherwise.
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> I.P.
I.P. Freely - 02 Mar 2006 20:09 GMT
> Of course, it's always nice to have an ocean on one side and mountains on
> the other.  Fishing in and around Cincinnati usually involves a float and
> housr of sheer boredom.  I haven't seen a snowmobile in 20 years.  And the
> last time I tried windsurfing on the Ohio River, I almost got hit by a
> barge.

The many reasons I left the eastern US (AL, FL, DE, NY, OH) include too
much flat private land, and I've always hated and refused to live in
cities. Even growing up in interior Alabama, I found plenty to do that
kept me moving every moment I wasn't in class. Even my summer jobs were
aerobic, and accommodated at least 50 hours a week of playing grabass
with my friends in the city pool. My grabass now costs much more, but
the mindset was established as a (younger) kid. And even at our age and
in the eastern U.S., there are plenty of opportunities for active
lifestyles, both hedonistic (sports and exercise) and altruistic
(community projects). Two of the scrappiest, leanest, fittest dynamos I
know are recovering heart pts who spend hours in the gym 4-5 days a week
warming up the equipment, the track, and the pool ... when they're not
dodging barges in the Columbia River.

I.P.
Alex - 02 Mar 2006 21:23 GMT
> Two of the scrappiest, leanest, fittest dynamos I know are recovering
> heart pts who spend hours in the gym 4-5 days a week warming up the
> equipment, the track, and the pool ... when they're not dodging barges in
> the Columbia River.
>
> I.P.

Swimming, running, heavy exercise -- OF COURSE they wound up as heart
patients!

Alex
I.P. Freely - 02 Mar 2006 22:15 GMT
>> Two of the scrappiest, leanest, fittest dynamos I know are recovering
>> heart pts who spend hours in the gym 4-5 days a week warming up the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Alex

You ARE joking, right?

I.P.
DP - 02 Mar 2006 18:15 GMT
IP,

You are one who really enjoys life, and that is great. Yet, many of us have
fallen into the work, work, work, watch a little TV and hit the sack. Only
to do it all over again tomorrow.  I certainly do not know anything about
Bob C's life, but have given some generalizations.  I hope you have
motivated some of us to do a little more.  I am active, but certainly not
like you have been.  Actually, yesterday when the dog came to me and wanted
his walk, I was in the middle of something else and we never got to that
walk.  Your thoughts have made me realize that we should have grabbed the
leash and taken off.  The old dog really needs his walks to keep him limber
(the poodle, not ME!!).   Anyway, now that we are seeing signs of warmer
weather and longer days, it certainly makes it easier.

Good luck to all and get out there and get moving!

Dale P
I.P. Freely - 02 Mar 2006 20:14 GMT
> IP,
>
> You are one who really enjoys life, and that is great. Yet, many of us have
> fallen into the work, work, work, watch a little TV and hit the sack. Only
> to do it all over again tomorrow.  

I know countless people like that. My hat's off to the two or three who
loved their work that much; my heart's out to the other hundreds who
felt compelled to do it.

I.P.
Steve Kramer - 02 Mar 2006 21:45 GMT
> I know countless people like that. My hat's off to the two or three who
> loved their work that much; my heart's out to the other hundreds who felt
> compelled to do it.

That's the main reason I stay in Cincinnati.  I qualified for retirement 3½
years ago.  As of March 29, I will be financially set for the rest of my
life (big deal!) and the rest of my wife's.  But, how I do love my job!
I.P. Freely - 02 Mar 2006 22:17 GMT
>> I know countless people like that. My hat's off to the two or three who
>> loved their work that much; my heart's out to the other hundreds who felt
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> years ago.  As of March 29, I will be financially set for the rest of my
> life (big deal!) and the rest of my wife's.  But, how I do love my job!

THAT I envy. Most workaholics I know are the unenviable variety -- the
ones who hate their jobs but have no other interests and feel compelled
to work as long as there's any work to be done.

I.P.
Bob C - 03 Mar 2006 23:52 GMT
I doubt if there is anyone here who cannot use some motivational help at
times. You sound like one fired up dude, heck, you can't be much older than
your late teens, and full of "T" and have energy to burn. Well, that's the
way it sounds, and I guess I am envious of your energy levels.  I have never
lead a sedentary life by any means, but it's sure been a long time since
I've bass or cat  fished all night and then went in to work early the next
morning! Even prior to the Lupron, a full work day and a 94 mile round trip
commute did not leave enough time to do much at home. Like too many guys,
the day at work is usually followed by the chores at home and playtime
stayed on the back burner most of the time. Seldom is that kind of daily
routine vigorous. I still believe that leaving my job will give me more than
enough time to pursue far more energetic activities than I do now. Even
while on Lupron, mainly because I have a lot of things that I enjoy doing. I
will have to give that "vigorous" thing some thought. It seems like all I do
is work, however, none of it is actually vigorous. Big difference.  It's
good to hear someone so fired up, vigorous,  and energetic, and ----alive?
Thanks for sharing,  and I hope you can keep that engine revved!
>> After working and the commute, you are probably tired and don't get the
>> activity you could otherwise.
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> I.P.
I.P. Freely - 04 Mar 2006 06:36 GMT
> I still believe that leaving my job will give me more than
> enough time to pursue far more energetic activities than I do now. Even
> while on Lupron, mainly because I have a lot of things that I enjoy doing.

That's a huge step in the right direction. MANY people of retirement age
  have no outside interests, let alone passions.

I.P.
I.P. Freely - 25 Feb 2006 19:55 GMT
> Why didn't I think of asking this question of The Group long ago? I've
> followed posts here for the past five plus years and have read voumes of
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> problem, and suggestions and success stories would be appreciated.
> Thanks.

I realize that weight gain/loss is "simply" a matter of calories
consumed/expended, but maybe understanding the mechanism of weight gain on
Lupron may help Lupron pts fight it. Does it increase their appetite? Slow
their metabolism? Cause water retention? Inhibit exercise via mental or
physical depression or discomfort? HOW does it do any of those? One effect,
for example, might be the lowered T => muscle atrophy => reduced metabolism
=> fewer calories expended 24/7 => weight gain even on comparably reduced
calories => solution: eat fewer calories and get more exercise, especially
weight training. Same questions apply for any meds we take WITH Lupron.

You've gained 48 pounds in 3.75 years. That's an excess of 122 calories a
day overall. You could stop gaining by eating 122 calories fewer a day
(apparently 2Kcal is your magic balance point NOW), or lose weight by
cutting calories back even further. But weight lost by diet alone is mostly
muscle, and as the muscle goes, so goes the metabolism, so goes the calories
in vs out balance point, and so we keep having to eat less and less just to
prevent weight gain. Keep losing that muscle by diet alone and your "magic
point" will keep dropping .... 1.9 Kcal, 1.8 Kcal,etc., until you just say
"screw it; let's go to Godfather's all-you-can-eat pizza. I'm gonna die fat
and enjoy it." Adding exercise to the equation at least lets us eat more yet
hold our weight; adding weight training (i.e., resistance training to
ever-increasing muscle load) will build muscle (it's the ONLY way we can
build muscle), increase our basal metabolism to help us burn fat 24/7, and,
as long as our calorie intake lags our calorie output, keep losing fat.

You apparently have the same choices every other overweight or underfit
person has:
1. fight a one-sided (diet alone), time-consuming, hungry, restrictive,
raisin-counting, food-weighing, giant dietary hassle which AT BEST makes us
thin, uptight, hungry, often lacking in vital nutrients, physically and
mentally tired, and in poor physical condition.
2. Add exercise to the battle and eat the same, likely even more, yet
reverse ALL the negative outcomes of the diet-only warfare.

Exercise adds many years to our lives (well, not so much for many in THIS
group) and much life to our years (ESPECIALLY for this group), while it
could be argued that dieting alone just takes away. Moderately overweight
but physically FIT people are far healthier than lean, mean, whining
machines who are unfit because they don't work or play hard. If your doctor
gives good cancer advice, thank him very much for his diet advice and ask
him to recommend a qualified professional physical trainer and dietician so
you can get serious about taking charge of your weight AND fitness. If his
PC advice is marginal, maybe it's a good excuse to make a clean break,
because calorie restriction alone is generally a losing battle. (The two
guys I know who spend the most time in the gym are major heart patients
whose exercise has saved their lives.) OTOH, it may be harder to find an
oncologist who understands and practices proper weight management than one
who can do a nerve-sparing RRP with great results. No reason we can't see
one person for our PC problems and a whole 'nuther resource to manage our
weight and fitness, as long as both providers are kept appraised of our
overall conditions.

I.P.
Bob C - 26 Feb 2006 21:34 GMT
Per the suggestion of DP, I will ask to have my thyroid checked at my next
visit to the doctor, but I doubt that a solution to my dilema will be that
easy. That could be part of the problem though, especially in view of the
amount of weight gain. I have had my own feelings that exercise and keeping
active are the key both for weight control and for heart health.  Exercise
for the sake of building muscle is something I have never been into, but
maybe it is a must nowadays due to the Lupron? I believe that this is a
major part of what you are saying, concentrate on burning calories and try
to increase muscle mass.

I am looking to leave the work force very soon and hope that this in itself
will result in a considerable increase in actvity levels.  My desk job and
the two hours on the road in transit takes up a huge part of each day and
sure do not burn many calories. Before leaving the work force,  I will do
exactly what you are suggesting, ask my doctor for direction for both diet
and fitness training, as well as checking my thyroid.  Leaving the work
force will give me many more hours per day to tend to my health. If there is
enough drive to do so, and I think there is.

I now have three things to try based on replies from the NG. Obviously I
cannot get back on here in a week or two and speak of the good/bad results
of following your advise, but eventually maybe I can give some kind of
progress report some day down the road.  Thanks all,

(Oh yes, my wife is still laughing at your signature! We can relate.)

> .
>
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
>
> I.P.
I.P. Freely - 26 Feb 2006 23:36 GMT
> I have had my own feelings that exercise and keeping active are the key
> both for weight control and for heart health.

That's not just a "feeling"; it's been proven in many huge, very long
trials.

> Exercise for the sake of building muscle is something I have never been
> into, but maybe it is a must nowadays due to the Lupron?
Me, neither. But, yes, it is necessary with ADT ... IF it's feasible with
zero T. If not -- and that would not surprise me -- an ADT pt's exercise
effort would probably be better devoted to aerobic exercise. Too bad, since
weights (i.e., exercise against increasing resistance, including Nautilus,
etc.) build muscle and bone -- both casualties of ADT -- in addition to
stoking our fires around the clock.

> I believe that this is a major part of what you are saying, concentrate on
> burning calories and try to increase muscle mass.

Any doctor who puts someone on ADT without a major lecture on exercise AND
referring them to some sort of trainer, at least for starters, is not doing
his damned job, IMO.

> I am looking to leave the work force very soon and hope that this in
> itself will result in a considerable increase in actvity levels.

Nope. Only YOU can generate an increase in activity. Time is not the issue;
we all have the same 24 hours in a day. The difference between exercisers
and non-exercisers is motivation/priorities, not time. NOTHING ... not leaky
roofs, CERTAINLY not mowing the lawn, not social obligations, not even
career, could tear me away from my play for the last 55+ years. My playtime
cost me a promotion, but so what? Once you find something you LOVE that gets
your pulse pumping for at least 30 minutes a day -- 10-12 hours on the GOOD
days -- all that other $#!+ becomes just so much background noise. I've
changed sports over the years for a number of reasons (primarily PAIN), but
by God nothing I can control -- and that doesn't leave much -- has kept me
from my play. Not one minute of my 7-9 collective years of hard play has
felt like "working out" -- to the contrary, it beats sex ALL to hell (and
still leaves time for that) -- yet it's kept me in excellent health (as long
as you don't count cancer) for decades.

> Before leaving the work force,  I will do exactly what you are suggesting,
> ask my doctor for direction for both diet and fitness training

Your doctor is not likely to know squat about either of those. You get that
from dieticians and fitness trainers. Ask your doc to refer you to them, and
maybe your medical coverage will pay for it. If not, I'd guess a good,
large, family-oriented gym would offer plenty of both PLUS all the
equipment. I stress the family-oriented gym because some gyms specialize in
body-building, whereas we want one full of kids and doddering skinny geezers
and 300-pound blubberbutts and skinny little chicks and aerobics classes and
those big fitness balls and ... ta daaa ... personal trainers on the staff.
I've always avoided gyms for many reasons, but I'm running out of heavy yard
projects, I'm enountering ailments due to lack of structured training (e.g.,
our rotator cuffs go straight to hell at our age and produce avoidable
shoulder disability if we don't target them specifically), and it's cheaper
than paying full-time independent dieticians and personal trainers. The gym
I joined several week ago offers all that and more, and so far I'm
benefiting immensely from it even after two decades of researching a very
broads range of health and fitness subjects and a lifetime of hard play. The
fitness trainer I picked from the gym's lineup, for example, also co-manages
a new professional sports research lab and starts med school this fall. He
costs me an extra $40 per session, spends hours off-the-clock planning my
programs, knows a great deal about diet and physiology, and schedules
sessions whenever *I* feel it's time for another one. He teaches me what to
do and how to do it; the rest is up to me, or if I wanted to pay for it,
he'd coach me through every session. The best part? I can quit him or the
whole gym idea any time I damn well please.

> Leaving the work force will give me many more hours per day to tend to my
> health. If there is enough drive to do so, and I think there is.

I could do most gym exercises on my Bowflex system, but going to the gym
frees me from the distractions at home and helps keep my wife going to the
gym, too. And the time flexibility retirement provides gets us to the gym
during its slack hours. We very seldom have to wait for even a minute for
access to a piece of equipment or a swimming pool lane. I'm almost to the
point of liking it, and I (and my friends) have seen OBVIOUS benefits in
just several weeks. We began taking a class there to keep us going at first,
but that's no longer necessary.

> eventually maybe I can give some kind of  progress report some day down
> the road.

If you start a regular exercise program, you will have an obvious
psychological lift to report, and will FEEL better, within one week. You
will achieve observable physical progress to report within one month.

> (Oh yes, my wife is still laughing at your signature! We can relate.)

Oh, you don't think that's my real name? My dad, Paul Philip Freely, would
feel insulted. ;-)

I.P.
Bob C - 28 Feb 2006 02:50 GMT
I.P., you have lots of good input here, much of it appropriate for my
situation, some not.  I do have a game plan, most of which has been
reinforced with your post and others. Maybe there will be something positive
to report back with down the road. Thanks for the input. (And I've seen
enough of your humor here to make it awful hard for me to buy into you or
P.P. Freely being insulted, but I will apologize if you can convince me
otherwise)

>> I have had my own feelings that exercise and keeping active are the key
>> both for weight control and for heart health.
[quoted text clipped - 92 lines]
>
> I.P.
I.P. Freely - 28 Feb 2006 07:08 GMT
> I.P., you have lots of good input here, much of it appropriate for my
> situation, some not.  I do have a game plan, most of which has been
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> P.P. Freely being insulted, but I will apologize if you can convince me
> otherwise)

The smiley should be a dead giveaway.

I.P.
Steve Kramer - 28 Feb 2006 14:41 GMT
> The smiley should be a dead giveaway.

Didja ever think, say 10 years ago, that so much could ride on a colon and
closed parenthesis?
I.P. Freely - 28 Feb 2006 17:24 GMT
>> The smiley should be a dead giveaway.
>
> Didja ever think, say 10 years ago, that so much could ride on a colon and
> closed parenthesis?

i don't know about the parenthesis, but a couple of us have a ton riding
on our colons. ::::::)
I.P.
Steve Kramer - 26 Feb 2006 00:26 GMT
I gained almost 30 since going on Lupron 2½ years ago, including 15 in the
last three months!  But, I think walking will knock that 15 back down.

It's been a real struggle.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

> Why didn't I think of asking this question of The Group long ago? I've
> followed posts here for the past five plus years and have read voumes of
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> problem, and suggestions and success stories would be appreciated.
> Thanks.
Bob C - 28 Feb 2006 02:27 GMT
Steve, I've seen your posts for a long time but never before noticed a
number parallels in our "situations"."  My initial psa was higher (55) and
at a later age,  55. Our surgeries were a few days apart, my margins
positive but with the same Gleason and N0M0 as well.  I went right to EBRT
after healing due to cancer seen on the bladder surface, and Lupron for a
year. After an off cycle I have been back on Lupron for the past 1 3/4 years
now and my current string of psa's are almost identical to yours. Not really
the best string of events for either of us, but they say that considering
where I started, I have been real fortunate to have held it off so far. I
don't know how many time I have been told that. The next psa is three months
off, so we wait. And wait. In the meantime we'll work on the fitness/weight
thing and enjoy what we can. If the next reading is still on its way up, at
any rate, it's time to start a new battle. I'll be watching for your posts,
and wishing you the best of luck in your own battle.

>I gained almost 30 since going on Lupron 2½ years ago, including 15 in the
>last three months!  But, I think walking will knock that 15 back down.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>> this problem, and suggestions and success stories would be appreciated.
>> Thanks.
Steve Kramer - 28 Feb 2006 12:10 GMT
I find it interesting how two people with such disparit initial PSAs (and
margins, I guess) can be brought to just about even by a good doctor and
treatment plan.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05,
2/06
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

> Steve, I've seen your posts for a long time but never before noticed a
> number parallels in our "situations"."  My initial psa was higher (55) and
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>>> us facing this problem, and suggestions and success stories would be
>>> appreciated. Thanks.
 
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