Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / February 2006
Which is first ??
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From Bob - 23 Feb 2006 07:36 GMT Have T1c, with a Gleason of 7, three cores are involved 2 on right lobe, 1 on left lobe., five percent of the three cores have adenocarcinoma. This appears to put me between early discovery and intermediate, because of the aggressive 4 + 3 = 7 gleason. Have been on proscar for past four years fof bph, had also taken hytrin for years. The prostate is estimated at 32 grams. Last psa was 2.44 (which needs to be doubled, because of the proscar). Both the Urologist and Medical oncologist have advised EBRT and seeds. I think i want the IMRT and seeds. Does it make a difference which i do first ?? PS ~ Just finished reading Michael Dattoli book "Surviving prostate cancer without surgery",very well written with a lot of clear detailed information, in easy to understand stlyle. However as expected biased toward radiation therapy.
c palmer - 23 Feb 2006 09:03 GMT From: IATROGENIC@webtv.net (From Bob)
Have T1c, with a Gleason of 7, three cores are involved 2 on right lobe, 1 on left lobe., five percent of the three cores have adenocarcinoma. This appears to put me between early discovery and intermediate, because of the aggressive 4 + 3 = 7 gleason. Have been on proscar for past four years fof bph, had also taken hytrin for years. The prostate is estimated at 32 grams. Last psa was 2.44 (which needs to be doubled, because of the proscar). Both the Urologist and Medical oncologist have advised EBRT and seeds. I think i want the IMRT and seeds. Does it make a difference which i do first ?? PS ~ Just finished reading Michael Dattoli book "Surviving prostate cancer without surgery",very well written with a lot of clear detailed information, in easy to understand stlyle. However as expected biased toward radiation therapy. ======
hi bob - the standard rule of treatment for early detection of pca is surgery first, radiation second and hormone third.
the logic behind this is because, if you were to have a recurrence of prostate cancer after surgery, then, you would have a second chance for a cure through radiation treatment.
if you opt for radiation and were to have a recurrence, then surgery is not looked at normally as an option.
if both surgery and radiation treatments fail, then hormone therapy is the treatment of choice, but it is not a cure.
hope that explains what you are asking.
~ curtis
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
From Bob - 23 Feb 2006 11:45 GMT When surgery is NOT a consideration, is EBRT, or Seed implants done first, or does it not make a difference ???
c palmer - 23 Feb 2006 12:46 GMT From: IATROGENIC@webtv.net (From Bob)
When surgery is NOT a consideration, is EBRT, or Seed implants done first, or does it not make a difference ???
====== hi bob - simply put, radiation is radiation. the body responds to the same way. it's the manner in which it is applied. and it is adds to the damage each time, so you are normally not radiated but once - regardless of treatment.
here's a simple test. take your hand and bend it backwards. see the skin? now, take your thumb and finger and pinch it firmly and hold it for a couple of seconds. now, let go. how long did it take for you skin to straighten up. that radiation damage from the sun. now, do the exact same thing on an area of the body where it has not been exposed to sun light and see the difference.
some of the radiation is applied outside the body, such as EBRT. some of the radiation is applied from inside the body such as seeds.
bottom line - the goal is the kill the prostate cancer.
but you will have the possibility of side effects. can be impotence, incontinence, or colon problems.
as far as the problems of side effects after treatment or basically the same. it's just that surgery happens up front and gets better with time and radiation takes it slowly over time as the body reacts to the radiation.
i don't know why surgery is not an option, so i won't go there.
but i will say this. i was originally going to have seeds done. but there was two points that the doctor said that bothered me.
one - cancer grows on the outside lobes of the prostate. if you put the seeds into the prostate, you will kill any cancer in the prostate, but what about the cancer on near the outside of the prostate? did you kill it?
two - radiation is a concern in the fact that too much radiation can cause cancer, such as too many chest x-rays. but what about radiation of the prostate. if you were able to kill all the bad cancer cells, what about the good cancers the were left? who's to say that maybe years later, they wouldn't go rouge and go cancerous.
that last point bothered me........ and i didn't have an answer....
~ curtis
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Steve Kramer - 24 Feb 2006 02:05 GMT i don't know why surgery is not an option, so i won't go there.
If I recall correctly, Bob's doctor doesn't want him getting surgery for medical reasons.
Greg Louis - 23 Feb 2006 13:16 GMT > Both the Urologist and > Medical oncologist have advised EBRT and seeds. I think i want the IMRT > and seeds. Does it make a difference which i do first ?? That sounds to me like a question for your radiation oncologist. There is a lot of wisdom and experience in this group but I doubt we can give you authoritative answers to questions that subtle.
Good luck...............
 Signature Greg Louis At age 58, PSA 5.4 rising triggered biopsy 2004-06-22, Gleason 3+3, T1c, prostate volume 27 cc. Monotherapy, 55 I-125 seeds implanted 2004-11-16.
juniper - 23 Feb 2006 14:33 GMT There is no "first". You can only get radiation once. Maybe there is no equipment/ *** experienced radiologists *** / in your area for IMRT?
>From Bob wrote: > Have T1c, with a Gleason of 7, three cores are involved 2 on right lobe, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > information, in easy to understand stlyle. However as expected biased > toward radiation therapy. ron - 23 Feb 2006 14:34 GMT Bob...Ditto Greg. RCOG does seeds before RT, a lot of other docs do it the other way around. They each have their reasons for their specific ordering. If they haven't adopted a uniform methodology, then my guess is there is no generally accepted reasoning as to why one way is better than the other...Ron
Steve Kramer - 24 Feb 2006 02:02 GMT Never heard of the book or author. However, having made up your mind against surgery, I would read Strumm's book.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06 PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 Non Illegitimi Carborundum
> Have T1c, with a Gleason of 7, three cores are involved 2 on right lobe, > 1 on left lobe., five percent of the three cores have adenocarcinoma. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > information, in easy to understand stlyle. However as expected biased > toward radiation therapy.
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