Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / February 2006
High Intensity Focused Ultrasound - opinions please
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From Bob - 04 Feb 2006 19:43 GMT Recently diagnosed with pc, age 69, 10 core biopsy revealed 3 positive cores, 2 on the right side, 1 on the left side, 5% of involved cores showed adeno-carcinoma, with a gleason of 7. In process of exploring treatment options, awaiting results of bone scan & cat scan, hopefully it is localized. Not doing well emotionally with this news. Has anyone had HIFU (high tensity focused ultrasound, as a treatment ??? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ High Intensity Focused Ultrasound (HIFU) HIFU: is a medical device piloted by a computer designed to treat localized prostate cancer using high intensity focused ultrasound (HIFU). What is HIFU? HIFU is a procedure where the temperature inside the prostate is raised to 85° Celsius using a focused ultrasound beam A probe is placed into the rectum after spinal or epidural anesthesia has been administered This probe emits a beam of high intensity focused ultrasound At the point where the ultrasound is focused (focal point) the sudden and intense absorption of the ultrasound beam quickly raises the temperature which destroys targeted cells The area destroyed by each beam is very small and precise By repeating the process and moving the focal point it is possible to destroy the prostate tissue The treatment takes from 1 to 3 hours depending upon the size of the prostate and is usually performed on an outpatient basis What Do the Clinical Studies Show? HIFU has been extensively used in Europe One report of 137 patients showed that 93% of the patients had negative prostate biopsies and 87% had PSA levels of less than 1.0 five years after the treatment Over 90% of patients undergoing HIFU therapy will not require further treatment for their prostate cancer HIFU treatment does not preclude other treatments. In those developing a recurrence, they remain candidates for surgery, radiation or hormone therapy HIFU treatment has a similar success rate to radical prostatectomy but has the major advantage of using non-invasive technology with many fewer side effects HIFU has proven to be an effective treatment for localized recurrent prostate cancer Published results indicate that 100 consecutive unsuccessful external beam radiation patients shows 62% of patients had negative biopsies, stable psa results and zero rectal fistulae Is HIFU a Proven Therapy? In 1989, three European research groups united in their efforts and initiated a project to develop an efficient and non-surgical treatment for localized prostate cancer After ten years of development, HIFU was approved for treatment in Europe. At present, HIFU is being used throughout Europe, Russia, Japan and other Asian countries. In 2003, it received Canadian government approval and patients are being treated in Toronto, Canada To date, thousands of patients have been treated successfully in many European centers and throughout the world Advantages of HIFU Destruction of the cancerous tissue with no risk of injury to the surrounding organs No chance of rectal injury Patient does not undergo any radiation exposure Usually no hospital stay is required Treatment is performed under spinal or epidural anesthesia Treatment can be repeated if necessary Other therapeutic alternatives can be considered in case of incomplete results Nerve sparing procedure can be performed HIFU can be used for the treatment of local recurrences (i.e. after external beam radiotherapy) Disadvantages of HIFU No pathology (no tissue) to be examined following the procedure A TUR-P may be required prior to treatment Not yet available in the United States Patients must travel to Canada for treatment Not covered by many insurance plans, as treatment not available in the U.S.
Steve Kramer - 04 Feb 2006 21:10 GMT Sorry, Bob. No one here, to my knowledge, has tried HIFU. Canada Bob researched it. His last email address, that I know of, was or is robert01942@hotmail.com
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 .08 Non Illegitimi Carborundum
Recently diagnosed with pc, age 69, 10 core biopsy revealed 3 positive cores, 2 on the right side, 1 on the left side, 5% of involved cores showed adeno-carcinoma, with a gleason of 7. In process of exploring treatment options, awaiting results of bone scan & cat scan, hopefully it is localized. Not doing well emotionally with this news. Has anyone had HIFU (high tensity focused ultrasound, as a treatment ??? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ High Intensity Focused Ultrasound (HIFU) HIFU: is a medical device piloted by a computer designed to treat localized prostate cancer using high intensity focused ultrasound (HIFU). What is HIFU? HIFU is a procedure where the temperature inside the prostate is raised to 85° Celsius using a focused ultrasound beam A probe is placed into the rectum after spinal or epidural anesthesia has been administered This probe emits a beam of high intensity focused ultrasound At the point where the ultrasound is focused (focal point) the sudden and intense absorption of the ultrasound beam quickly raises the temperature which destroys targeted cells The area destroyed by each beam is very small and precise By repeating the process and moving the focal point it is possible to destroy the prostate tissue The treatment takes from 1 to 3 hours depending upon the size of the prostate and is usually performed on an outpatient basis What Do the Clinical Studies Show? HIFU has been extensively used in Europe One report of 137 patients showed that 93% of the patients had negative prostate biopsies and 87% had PSA levels of less than 1.0 five years after the treatment Over 90% of patients undergoing HIFU therapy will not require further treatment for their prostate cancer HIFU treatment does not preclude other treatments. In those developing a recurrence, they remain candidates for surgery, radiation or hormone therapy HIFU treatment has a similar success rate to radical prostatectomy but has the major advantage of using non-invasive technology with many fewer side effects HIFU has proven to be an effective treatment for localized recurrent prostate cancer Published results indicate that 100 consecutive unsuccessful external beam radiation patients shows 62% of patients had negative biopsies, stable psa results and zero rectal fistulae Is HIFU a Proven Therapy? In 1989, three European research groups united in their efforts and initiated a project to develop an efficient and non-surgical treatment for localized prostate cancer After ten years of development, HIFU was approved for treatment in Europe. At present, HIFU is being used throughout Europe, Russia, Japan and other Asian countries. In 2003, it received Canadian government approval and patients are being treated in Toronto, Canada To date, thousands of patients have been treated successfully in many European centers and throughout the world Advantages of HIFU Destruction of the cancerous tissue with no risk of injury to the surrounding organs No chance of rectal injury Patient does not undergo any radiation exposure Usually no hospital stay is required Treatment is performed under spinal or epidural anesthesia Treatment can be repeated if necessary Other therapeutic alternatives can be considered in case of incomplete results Nerve sparing procedure can be performed HIFU can be used for the treatment of local recurrences (i.e. after external beam radiotherapy) Disadvantages of HIFU No pathology (no tissue) to be examined following the procedure A TUR-P may be required prior to treatment Not yet available in the United States Patients must travel to Canada for treatment Not covered by many insurance plans, as treatment not available in the U.S.
ron - 04 Feb 2006 22:13 GMT Bob...Go to PubMed http://www.ncbi.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi and search "HIFU, prostate cancer". You'll get a lot of hits, the available abstracts should be informative. HIFU hasn't been practiced all that long, so long term results (10 years or so) on disease recurrence are not available. Shorter term recurrence results do not look impressive, they are generally higher than what surgery or RT might produce at equivalent follow-up times. Impotence and the need for a TURP, post-HIFU, are also quite common. On the positive side it is a very well tolerated procedure and will probably improve further with time...Ron
Clarence Crow - 04 Feb 2006 23:43 GMT <snip>
> Has anyone >had HIFU (high tensity focused ultrasound, as a treatment ??? <snip> I haven't had it and wouldn't be keen to try it due to the possible errors in focusing the 2 U/sound vector beams, working from a probe up your rectum trying to pinpoint target areas in your prostate, each of which moves independently of the other.
I had HDR Brachytherapy, which I consider to be more accurate in "mapping" the target areas within the prostate. More CT scans are taken after the template placement and the catheter positions are checked and adjusted against the model at each session.
The object of BOTH treatments is to boil your prostate into one HUGE blister, killing every cell inside the capsule with excessive heat.
The very fact that HIFU Spin Doctors offer a free TURP with each treatment, smacks of "blind shooting".
If you want to be one of the Pioneers in HIFU, you can get it done on the cheap in Mexico.
-- Reader to complete... -- Please reply to this ng as my email adress is fake:
-- Regards
-- CC
Steve Jordan - 05 Feb 2006 00:39 GMT On February 4 (US) Clarence Crow wrote, in pertinent part:
> If you want to be one of the Pioneers in HIFU, you can get it done on > the cheap in Mexico. > Well, I dunno about cheap.
A friend of mine had the procedure (done by a well-known uro from southern California) in Cabo San Lucas, Baja California, Mexico. He had elected to try to have his cake and eat it too by having only a partial "ablation" performed. Cost him US$22,000, none of which was covered by any sort of insurance.
BTW, it didn't work very well. He had a large surge in PSA and had to undergo chemotherapy (Taxotere) + ADT. At the moment, he's dong well, though.
Regards,
Steve J
"The thing is to expect nothing in particular, but be aware of the lack of enforceable guarantees or enforceable contracts with nature/god/entropy as to the condition or durability of our bodies." -- Brian Brunner, PCa survivor, December 12, 2005 on The Prostate Problems Mailing List Thank you, Brian.
> > -- Reader to complete... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > -- CC > c palmer - 05 Feb 2006 00:41 GMT hi bob - Hifi was developed in 1999 and had 7 years to develop. so far, i've not seen much from it as far as actual results. i'm starting to see more along the lines of pushing it in advertising than i'm seeing in lab reports and lab results.
please be advised that you are playing with a treatment that doesn't have a long history as compared to the other two forms of treatment (surgery or radiation) both of those have proven track records.
given your age (69), you would have to ask yourself, 'how's your health?"
this may limit the type of treatment you seek.
for example, maybe your health won't allow surgery as an option.
you didn't say what your psa was.
your biopsy revealed that you are a stage 'c' whether it is in stage 1 or 2.
also, another point to consider is your gleason of 7. was it (4 + 3) or (3 + 4)?
you will find that it isn't a one answer fits all when it comes to prostate cancer, but to research the options and look at your facts, then opt for the best treatment in your particular case.
as to the mental part of not taking it well. that goes with the program. the best way to look at it is that you will go through the different phases as if you experience a death of a loved one.
the disbelief, the anger, the let's make a deal stage, the depression........ etc, etc.
it's normal to cry too.
keep asking questions and researching.
prostate cancer is not a death sentence. you can beat it.
~ curtis
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
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