Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / December 2005
Newly Diagnosed. Worried about empty specimen container.
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Ron - 27 Dec 2005 19:45 GMT Hello. Thank goodness for this group. I've been reading and reading, ordered books, etc.
I'm 63, no history of PCa in family. I've had an enlarged prostate for several years, with "normal" DRE's and PSA's in 3.5 to 4.5 range. Based on a PSA of 5.11 a few weeks ago, my regular doctor said "see a urologist." I chose one recommended by a neighbor as having a national reputation for surgery. That guy's DRE showed "assymetry" (not a nodule), and so recommended biopsy.
I was informed a few days ago of a positive biopsy. From the pathologists report: of 12 sample cores, one is Gleason (3+3)=6, involving 15% of the surface area. Three others are labeled "Focus of Atypical Small Acinar Proliferation," and one other is labeled High Grade PIN. PSA is 5.3. I'll be getting a bone scan and bladder endoscopy in next few weeks, then urologist will meet with me to discuss options.
But here's what's disturbing me at the moment (besides the fact that I have cancer): One of the 12 biopsies is labeled by the pathology lab as: "Right Apex: No tissue is received in the specimen container."
I can't get through now to the urologist's office because of the holidays. I am wondering what happened to the sample? Has anyone ever heard of this? Where is the mistake likely to have been made? Is it possible the sample was released before removal of the probe? It happens to have been a core adjacent to the malignant core, so I'm wondering if it's possible that malignant cells were released into my body.
Thank you for any advice. And thank you for this group! -Ron
Clarence Crow - 27 Dec 2005 21:39 GMT <snip>
>But here's what's disturbing me at the moment (besides the fact that I have >cancer): One of the 12 biopsies is labeled by the pathology lab as: "Right [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >adjacent to the malignant core, so I'm wondering if it's possible that >malignant cells were released into my body. It happens, though mine was not the same in the biopsy report. I had 10 cores taken and only 9 were referenced in the report. Down the line, I queried the chief oncologist at the start of my treatment on this and he just shrugged and suggested the unreported core was probably "a misfire" and moved on to other matters.
Actually, anyone having a prostate biopsy is extremely LUCKY to get a valid report first time round, as the TRUS imaging is very hazy just looking at the prostate, let alone defining the tumour. I know of a guy who eventually had 4 biopsies, (2 at different venues), before he got a valid report, which showed some 2x G8s and 1 x G9.
I wouldn't worry about malignant cells released into your body. PCa doesn't work like that.
-- Reader to complete... -- Please reply to this ng as my email adress is fake:
-- Regards
-- CC
ron - 27 Dec 2005 22:01 GMT Ron wrote...snip...
> Is it possible the sample was released before removal of the probe? It happens to have > been a core adjacent to the malignant core, so I'm wondering if it's possible that > malignant cells were released into my body. Ron...Don't know what happened to the sample, but cancerous cells from the prostate were circulating in you body way before the biopsy. Generally, it is not until the disease progresses to the point where various growth factors and proteins allow colonization of the cells at distant sites that circulating cells can cause mets. Until that time, circulating cancerous cells simply die and are removed from the body. Given the few pieces of information you included in your note, you are unlikely to be at that stage. So don't worry, even if the snippet was left in your body, it is unlikely to cause any negative effects...Best wishes and good health, Ron
Brian - 27 Dec 2005 22:21 GMT > That guy's DRE showed "assymetry" (not a > nodule), and so recommended biopsy. Considering how a DRE is done, of course is "ass-symetry".
The "no tissue" needle might just be a miss... I've never heard of it, which does not astound me since I'm new to all this. Was the biopsy finger or ultra-sound guided?
Ron - 28 Dec 2005 00:33 GMT >> That guy's DRE showed "assymetry" (not a >> nodule), and so recommended biopsy. > > Considering how a DRE is done, of course is "ass-symetry".
:-) Heh. Now there was a Freudian typo, eh? (I'm so discombobulated, I've done a lot worse. The other night I walked into a glass inner door, heading for the outer door beyond it. None the worse except for some bent eye-glasses. I guess if anyone can sympathize, you guys will.)
> The "no tissue" needle might just be a miss... I've never heard of it, > which does not astound me since I'm new to all this. Was the biopsy > finger or ultra-sound guided? Ultrasound. Dumb me even asks the MD while he's doing it: "You do have a way of mapping each extract with the position, right?" He said "Of course." Now I see, the path report shows the mapping (though he probably never read the detail that shows one sample tube was empty.) Each sampling sounded like a pneumatic stapling gun going off. He was working with a technician - maybe she made a sample-transfer mistake, I don't know.
I'm so keyed on details; methinks I gotta take a break for a while. I've been asking myself, do I want to go with an MD who'd make a mistake like this, but I'm sure I'll get better perspective after I read more and stay tuned with you guys. Also, I live in a suburb of NYC, so maybe I'll try for a second opinion at Sloan Kettering. (Any MD recommendations?)
Anyway, thank you Brian and everyone else who responded! I appreciate your help and support, Ron
Sandy K. - 29 Dec 2005 00:43 GMT > :-) Heh. Now there was a Freudian typo, eh? (I'm so discombobulated, I've > done a lot worse. The other night I walked into a glass inner door, heading > for the outer door beyond it. None the worse except for some bent > eye-glasses. I guess if anyone can sympathize, you guys will.) Yup, a bit distracted. I would think it's quite normal.
Also, I live in a suburb of NYC, so maybe I'll try for
> a second opinion at Sloan Kettering. (Any MD recommendations?) I too live in a suburb of NYC - NJ to be more precise. Although I use a very well respected urologist, I went to Sloane for my second opinion. The head of urology there is Dr. Peter Scardino - very well known and respected. Dr. Scardino took over my case and perfromed my RRP. I suggest you contact his office - if he's not seeing new patients, his office will recommend other very competent Drs. at Sloane. Others on this board have been to Sloane and used other docs - they will most likely chime in and provide other names.
Good luck, Sandy K. Diagnosed 2/04 RRP 6/04
> Anyway, thank you Brian and everyone else who responded! I appreciate your > help and support, Ron Alan Meyer - 29 Dec 2005 16:09 GMT > ... > I'm so keyed on details; methinks I gotta take a break for a while. I've [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a second opinion at Sloan Kettering. (Any MD recommendations?) > ... Like most of us here, I'm not a doctor and my opinion is often uninformed guesswork based on oversimplified reasoning from faulty premises.
So, starting with that caveat, I'll go on to venture an uninformed opinion.
I surmise that the actual sample is taken by the equipment, not by the doctor. The doctor guides the needle to the right place and then activates the equipment which performs the "snap" to get the sample.
If that's true, your doctor had no opportunity to drop the core. The part he did was probably done right but, for some reason, the biopsy needle device dropped the sample, or the technician mis-handled it after the doctor brought it to him or her. So I wouldn't conclude that your doctor is a fumbler.
As for Sloan-Kettering. Their reputation is so high that I expect they get their pick of doctors and all of them are good. Ditto for Hopkins in Baltimore, M.D. Anderson in Dallas, and many other famous cancer centers.
On another matter, your numbers are very encouraging. It appears your cancer was caught very early. Most of the men on this group who have been "cured" probably started out with worse numbers than you have.
Your prospects for success by any of the standard treatment methods are excellent, and you might wish to investigate some of the easier treatments, like brachytherapy (radioactive seeds), as well as surgery.
Best of luck.
Alan
Steve Kramer - 30 Dec 2005 02:20 GMT > :-) Heh. Now there was a Freudian typo, eh? (I'm so discombobulated, > I've > done a lot worse. The other night I walked into a glass inner door, > heading for the outer door beyond it. None the worse except for some bent > eye-glasses. I guess if anyone can sympathize, you guys will.) The day I found out, I backed into my wife's car in the driveway. Cancer tends to overwhelm the synaptic gaps.
Steve U - 27 Dec 2005 22:41 GMT Ron, Sounds to me like one of your biopsy specimens was intended, but not completed somewhere in the process. You already know what you have so it does not make much difference from the point of view of what to do next. I just sent a message to another "club" member, that I'll repeat for you since we have some things in common (don't we all?). Sorry to hear of your misfortune. I was 50 when I got the bad news about 2 years ago. It was devastating! I'm doing great now. Only you can decide what is best for you. Take your time and read all you can. Most of the guys here did that, and we came to different conclusions. Most sound happy with their decisions, and you probably will be too. I had a Robotic Laparoscopic RP in February of 2004. The surgeon was Dr.Joseph Wagner. He has done hundreds of robotic procedures.I'm very pleased with him. You could look at the Hartford Hospitals website www.harthosp.org for information about the procedure. They have a video of one of the operations that you can watch on your computer, and the doctors explain everything. I went there and I am very happy with my results. The operation took about 3 hours, but seemed like seconds to me. I was able to go home 20 hours later, and back to work day 6. Now I never leak, and a most of my erection ability has returned. The worst part was waiting between the diagnosis and the surgery. I picked surgery because I think it offers the best chance of a complete cure. PSA is expected to drop to nothing. You can have the pathologist go over the whole gland, nor just tiny pieces of it. Also, I wanted to take the hit on erection and continence at the start and get it over with. If you get good results from surgery, it lasts. I wanted the robot technique because I like having the doctor be able to see as well as possible, and the post op misery is less. All the treatments have potential benefit and risks. Check them all out. My PCa stuff is: age 50 PSA 4.5 Bx showed High Grade PIN 5 months later PSA 5.6 repeat Bx 1/12 cores <1mm gleason 3+3=6 stage T1c RLRP 2-11-04 at age 50 Favorable path, 5 small foci of 3+3, organ contained Post op PSAs <0.1 Steve U
Glassman - 28 Dec 2005 03:18 GMT > Hello. Thank goodness for this group. I've been reading and reading, > ordered books, etc. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Thank you for any advice. And thank you for this group! -Ron That's the least of your worries Ron. It's like being a little bit pregnant. If that sample turned out to be pos or neg..... you'd still be faced with movin gon to the next step. This is not a death sentence. You're much more likely to die of something other than PCa based on what I'm hearing. Keep reading and interviewing good docs to help you make your treatment choice.
 Signature "Don't get me wrong... I'm SNARKY" JK Sinrod Sinrod Stained Glass Studios www.sinrodstudios.com Coney Island Memories www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories
Steve Kramer - 30 Dec 2005 02:17 GMT I do not recall anyone bring it up before, but now that I think back, people have reported their full biopsy results and I think there are often times where a core is left blank or "no sample".
The three most likely reasons that I can think of (and I am not a doctor) would be miss, misfire, hit a vein.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 .08 Non Illegitimi Carborundum
> Hello. Thank goodness for this group. I've been reading and reading, > ordered books, etc. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Thank you for any advice. And thank you for this group! -Ron
|
|
|