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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / December 2005

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just diagnosed iii

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You smiled, you spoke, and I believed - 22 Dec 2005 16:55 GMT
I had my brachytherapy on Nov 21, 2005.

Have recovered well, but, I am having severe problems urinating at
night.   It is very, very, painfull getting flow started, and keeping it
going.  I am getting up about every hour or hour &1/2.

I have tried every trick I can think of to get flow started:
turning water on
wetting hand
rubbing tip of penis w water,
walking about

but, I still have excruciating pain until the flow starts, then it
subsides some, but I cannot keep the flow going.  BTW, I have to stand,
sitting does not work at all.

I am taking flow max twice a day.

during the day, I drink coffee and it is a lot easier, although I go the
bathroom quite often, and I have very short warning.

I am an attorney, and I always inform the Judge of my problem, so that I
can quickly excuse myself and leave.

Any ideas?

The doctor said it is normal, and would decrease w time.

j.
c palmer - 22 Dec 2005 20:29 GMT
From: nospam@nospam.net
(You smiled, you spoke, and I believed)
I had my brachytherapy on Nov 21, 2005.
Have recovered well, but, I am having severe problems urinating at
night.   It is very, very, painfull getting flow started, and keeping
it going. I am getting up about every hour or hour &1/2.
I have tried every trick I can think of to get flow started: turning
water on
wetting hand
rubbing tip of penis w water,
walking about
but, I still have excruciating pain until the flow starts, then it
subsides some, but I cannot keep the flow going. BTW, I have to stand,
sitting does not work at all.
I am taking flow max twice a day.
during the day, I drink coffee and it is a lot easier, although I go the
bathroom quite often, and I have very short warning.
I am an attorney, and I always inform the Judge of my problem, so that I
can quickly excuse myself and leave.
Any ideas?
The doctor said it is normal, and would decrease w time.
j.

hi j. - what you are describing are some of the more common effects from
radiation.

your body got a heavy dose of radiation and that area is protesting by
swelling up from being injured.  

but like all injuries, they will settle down.  but in the meantime, it
plays hell on your life.

i would like to remind you that it normally takes a lot longer to
recover than what you've indicated.  radiation takes time for the
results to be shown.  you will probably have some effects for 6 months
to a year.  

how's your energy level?   that's seems to be another common side
effect..... lower energy.

maybe the doctor can change the meds a little bit to help with the
urination.

best of luck.

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
kh - 22 Dec 2005 20:51 GMT
> I had my brachytherapy on Nov 21, 2005.
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> j.

Did they give you Pyridium and Decadron along with the Flomax????  
The dietician at Inova told me to cut out the coffee for 3 months
after seeding.  I did that.

Pyridium - Phenazopyridine 200 mg,  dyes the pee orange and takes
the sting away.

Decadron - Dexamethasone 4 mg, a steriod that helps you pee by
reducing swelling of the urethra and prostate.

The worse of the blockage was at the 4-6 week point for me.  I was
off the Pyridium and the Decadron BUT at the advice of the
rad-nurse, I kept 6 Decadron tabs "just in case".

I was taking 1 Flomax and 2 Aleve.  Getting up every 1.5 to 2 hours
to go.   Having to go every couple hours during the day.  I mean,
REALLY go.  My desk is 20 feet from the men's room so it
wasn't an issue.

Once about the 2nd or 3rd month, I forgot to take the Flomax and
Aleve for a couple days and suddenly felt the faucet slam shut.  I
started taking it again and did so for 6 months total.

The "going" was almost normal at the 6th month.   In that, I could
sleep through the night.  It sorta went like this:

Month 1 - getting up every 1 to 2 hours.
Month 2 - getting up every 3 hours
Month 3 - getting up every 4 hours
Month 4 - getting up every 5 hours
Month 5 - getting up every 6 hours
Month 6 - sleeping through the night but having to go right away
when I got up.

After 12 months, I am able to drink 20 ounces of water before going
to bed.   When I go, I can hit the far wall, oh, 3 or 4 feet away.  

I'm at 15 months and there is still some stinging but all I take is
1 Aleve at night.    

-C
I.P. Freely - 23 Dec 2005 20:30 GMT
"kh"wrote

> When I go, I can hit the far wall, oh, 3 or 4 feet away.

Let's hope your aim improves with time.
When I was still at that stage, my wife made me pee outside ...
Condo rules or no condo rules!   '-)

I.P.
Brian - 24 Dec 2005 15:25 GMT
> "kh"wrote
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> I.P.

We aim to please!

You aim, too.... please...
kh - 28 Dec 2005 23:27 GMT
> > "kh"wrote
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> You aim, too.... please...

Aim?   I had rad.   I can write my name on the wall from 4 feet
away, although it is still a little hard to dot the "i"s.  

 "if you sprinkle
 when you tinkle
 be a sweetie
 wipe the seatie"

That's not a rad side effect.  

-
gourd_dancer - 22 Dec 2005 22:55 GMT
After my Brachy, I found it best to sit in a hot bath three times a days for
relief and simply urinated in the tub.

>I had my brachytherapy on Nov 21, 2005.
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> j.
You smiled, you spoke, and I believed - 23 Dec 2005 15:29 GMT
> After my Brachy, I found it best to sit in a hot bath three times a days for
> relief and simply urinated in the tub.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>>
>>j.

Well, gourd dancer, I just discovered a variation of your idea.

I had noticed, that when I took a shower, and urinated in the shower,
not that I had a choice, that it did not burn as much.

So last night, I filled a plastic cup with water, and put my penis in
the water, and urinated, wow, no burning, none at all.  Although I still
got up several times during the night, the pain was much less with the
glass of water technique.

It was great!  I really slept good.

Not the most aesthetical solution, but extremely efficacious.

Note: use warm water, not hot, not cold.

Note: keep the drink glass separate from the pee glass.

Of course, now, during the day, burning still present.  Wonder if I can
find a collapsible cup to carry around with me.

BTW am flying to Nevada, Sat nite, don't know if I will have problem w
security and access to bathroom.

J.
DonC - 23 Dec 2005 16:16 GMT
> Well, gourd dancer, I just discovered a variation of your idea.
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> J.

Well, since we're getting graphic,  I've found that Preparation H applied to
the tip of the penis -- even inserting it an inch or so -- greatly relieves
the burning sensation. Many years ago I discovered this at times I thought I
had a bladder infection -- which I didn't -- and was desperate to relieve
the pain.  After I removed the catheter 8 days following RRP, I was very
irritated and it rescued me again.

Desperate times call for desperate means : )
KenA - 24 Dec 2005 05:49 GMT
If you're serious able the collapsible cup, you can get them for just a few dollars
at camping/back packing sources either at your local retail or online sources like:
http://www.cyberimport.com/catalog/sports/camping_meal_beverage_travel_mug_stain
less_collapsible.htm

http://www.drugstore.com/qxp140272_333181_sespider/ezy_dose/collapsible_drinking
_cup_with_pill_box.htm

http://www.campersland.com/stn-269-p.html

HTH,
ken

>> After my Brachy, I found it best to sit in a hot bath three times a days for
>> relief and simply urinated in the tub.
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
>
> J.
Alan Meyer - 22 Dec 2005 23:36 GMT
> I had my brachytherapy on Nov 21, 2005.
>
> Have recovered well, but, I am having severe problems urinating at
> night.   It is very, very, painfull getting flow started, and keeping it
> going.  I am getting up about every hour or hour &1/2.

I had HDR brachytherapy which is different because you get
all the radiation in a big dose instead of slowly over time, so my
experience might differ from yours.

I had the same problems.  The most acute period lasted about
6-8 weeks, then gradually began to get better.  I took two Flowmax
pills (don't recall the number of milligrams) a day.  I also took a
fair amount of ibuprofen for its anti-inflammatory qualities.  I
also found standing up to be necessary in order to urinate.

I presume the pain you're experiencing is the pressure from
the overfull bladder.

I wish I could tell you some trick to solve the problem that you
haven't tried, but I can't think of one, unless it's to try
gourd_dancer's
approach - which has to be inconvenient at night.  Conceivably an
ice pack applied to the perineum would help a bit - though I'm
sure it wouldn't be very much.  I would stand up, dance, pee a bit,
go to bed, get up again and do it all over, about 7 times per night.

The good news is that this really is pretty common and, for most
of us, it really does go away.  Mine started to get better after about
8 weeks, but it was about 4-5 months before I got completely off
Flowmax.

   Alan
Tom Cular - 24 Dec 2005 12:24 GMT
>> I had my brachytherapy on Nov 21, 2005.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
>    Alan

As others have said, the retention and urgency are normal side effects from
the radiation and the implant process. In my case it seemed to peak at about
6 weeks then began to improve. The timing may vary with different isotopes
as the half life of I125 and Pd103 are quite different.

Tom
Slightly Unsure - 23 Dec 2005 08:40 GMT
> but, I still have excruciating pain until the flow starts, then it
> subsides some, but I cannot keep the flow going.  BTW, I have to stand,
> sitting does not work at all.

Not attempting to sound glib here but what you are describing may not be a
physical thing. Most male kids entering puberty have problems peeing and
even keeping on peeing when started when going to a public urinal for
example. I suspect you may be anticipating the pain and thus not relaxing
enough.

I know this sounds ridiculous but due to prostate problems of one sort or
another for a long time, I use a basic diversion on myself. I think of
something that takes my mind off it when peeing and it works. Takes some
work to get it all working OK but it gets there.
Alan Meyer - 25 Dec 2005 18:48 GMT
>> but, I still have excruciating pain until the flow starts, then it subsides some, but I
>> cannot keep the flow going.  BTW, I have to stand, sitting does not work at all.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> when started when going to a public urinal for example. I suspect you may be
> anticipating the pain and thus not relaxing enough.

The medical explanation for this is that radiation causes inflammation
of the prostate.  The inflammed tissue swells and the swelling clamps
down on the urethra - which is the tube through which urine flows from
the bladder and out the penis.  The urethra goes right through the
prostate and the action of the swollen prostate on it is like squeezing
a rubber tube closed.

The reason people have trouble keeping the flow going, and the reason
why they have to stand, is that it takes a lot of pressure to push the
urine through the clamped down urethra.  Once the bladder empties
partway, the pressure subsides.  Even though there's more urine in
the bladder, the pressure is no longer high enough to push it through
the closed down urethra.

The good news is that the swelling, though long lasting, is not
permanent.  It will eventually (in a few months) subside.

> I know this sounds ridiculous but due to prostate problems of one sort or another for a
> long time, I use a basic diversion on myself. I think of something that takes my mind
> off it when peeing and it works. Takes some work to get it all working OK but it gets
> there.

Whatever works!  Sometimes psychological tricks can help us
overcome physical problems.

   Alan
 
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