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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / December 2005

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Received my second PSA test

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Dick Smith - 13 Dec 2005 00:30 GMT
Last week I got the DRE and PSA tested for the second time. First time
was last year at this time. I admit I was nervous about opening up the
envelope the lab sent me. I didn't know what to expect. Last year was
0.8. All these what-if's kept going through my mind. What if it's .9,
is this the start of a trend, what if it's 1.0 and yada yada yada. I'm
sure this is all premature on my part as I'm 38, but nevertheless. It
was 0.7.

A little history on my part. Age 38. Father Dx with aggressive Pca
around age of 65 and passed away at age of 74. I know he'd want me to
avoid his fate so decided to get tested early (Thanks Steve Kramer,
your message prompted me to get tested early) to detect any trend
early. That was against my GP's advice which I wouldn't need to be
tested until I was 50. I've also read Dr Walsh's book and Dr Catalina's
website.

One question,
My GP does the DRE , should I have a urologist do that instead?
Bob Anthony - 13 Dec 2005 01:50 GMT
I would do testing every year. The consensus is a 0.75 of a point
increase per year would be cause to get suspicious.
Get a good uro to do that DRE.

B.A.
I. P. Freely - 13 Dec 2005 02:03 GMT
"Dick Smith" asked
> My GP does the DRE , should I have a urologist do that instead?

All in a period of about six weeks, five or six physicians gave me the
finger. All knew my biopsy showed significant cancer, and were looking for
signs of its boundaries. Most were oncologists, including four urologists.
Only one perceived any anomaly, and that was very slight.

Hmmm . . . one in 6 . . . classic Russian roulette, but in reverse. Just
hope you find the RIGHT finger at an EARLY moment.

But with your awareness, your early examinations, and your rapidly
increasing expertise, any PC is highly unlikely to escape your notice until
it's escaped the kennel. Your dad's situation merely raises your odds of
acquiring PC; it doesn't doom you to catch PC and certainly doesn't doom you
to your dad's fate. Given your level of PC awareness, several other dreadful
diseases bear a greater threat to you.

On THAT pleasant thought . . .

I.P.
Now stop that smoking and move out of McDonald's.
Steve Kramer - 13 Dec 2005 13:36 GMT
Dick,

Glad to hear your PSA is level.  You now have a pretty good baseline.  Your
healthy PSA, at 38-years-old, is about 1.0.  You should be able to expect
that over the next thirty or forty years, it will rise to 4.0 or 5.0.  Keep
getting tested and put PCa at the back of your mind.

As to fingers, I recently had a foreign car repair shop owner tell me that
the IAC Valve on my Ford F150 was shot.  He heard the truck stall as I
pulled into his lot.  I took the truck to a Ford dealership and on the
second day, they diagnosed my problems as an IAC valve.  During 1999, an ER
doc did not feel anything on my prostate.  One year later, I had a PSA/DRE
and the doc sent me to a urologist after the PSA results came back.  The
urologist felt "something funny".  My PSA was 16 and my prostate was T3c.
Moral of the story:  It's the finger of the man (or woman), not what it says
on the certificate in the office.  You want a finger that has penetrated a
lot of rectums and successfully felt nodules when they were there.

As to your father's cancer, I have mentioned before that there is no known
connection between an older father and a younger son getting PCa.  If your
father had been in his 40s, that might have had an indication on your PCa.
As it is, you have a chance at PCa only because every male does.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

> Last week I got the DRE and PSA tested for the second time. First time
> was last year at this time. I admit I was nervous about opening up the
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> One question,
> My GP does the DRE , should I have a urologist do that instead?
Alan Meyer - 13 Dec 2005 18:56 GMT
...
> One question,
> My GP does the DRE , should I have a urologist do that instead?

I figure it this way.  There are thousands of things that can kill us.
For each of them, there is a specialist who knows better than a
general practitioner how to diagnose it.  A cardiologist can read your
electrocardiogram better than your GP.  An endocrinologist can
interpret your blood sugar and hormone levels better.  A lung
specialist can interpret your chest X-rays better, and so on.

But, in the absence of some specific evidence of a problem, how
much sense would it make to make appointments with 50
specialists a year for checkups - even apart from the outrageous
cost?

Since you have no evidence of a problem, I'd stick with the G.P.

   Alan
I. P. Freely - 13 Dec 2005 19:05 GMT
"Alan Meyer" wrote>
> But, in the absence of some specific evidence of a problem, how
> much sense would it make to make appointments with 50
> specialists a year for checkups - even apart from the outrageous
> cost?
>
> Since you have no evidence of a problem, I'd stick with the G.P.

I agree, but my brother and my wife have outstanding GPs. Their GPs send
them to specialists readily, collect and discuss their resulting big
pictures, discuss things at length, and stay on top of new medical findings.
I've had less luck with GPS so far, with some being quite bad. Just as in
selecting your surgeon, you need to choose your GP with a critical eye.

I.P.
Ron B - 13 Dec 2005 19:21 GMT
I'm always really glad to see the consistantly great advice given by the
great guys here.

PCa is NOT a funny topic but they manage to toss in homey little 'terms
of amusement' without minimizing the seriousness of the question.

I.P mentions 'getting the finger'.

Steve K. talks about how...the educated finger has been in a lot of
rectums.

And if I may...Brian said something in an earlier thread (I'm not going
there)...about us not getting into a pissing contest...

well, it made me think of the old adages...

"Never leave your wife or girlfriend with a guy named 'Snake'."

"Don't bring a knife to a gunfight", and the one that applies here the
most...

"Never get into a pissing contest with a guy named 'I.P. Freely' "

Be well,

Ron B.

Chicago
I. P. Freely - 14 Dec 2005 00:34 GMT
"Ron B" cautioned>
> "Never get into a pissing contest with a guy named 'I.P. Freely' "

After my chuckle, I have to add that I'm a pretty safe guy to piss on (at
least verbally) because I don't piss back. I may DEBATE until the cows fly
home wearing combat boots, but I don't engage in ad hominem . . . yet. ;-)

I.P. Freely
But not on theely
Steve Jordan - 14 Dec 2005 01:09 GMT
On December 13, I. P. Backwards wrote, in pertinent part:

> I may DEBATE until the cows fly home wearing combat boots, but I don't
> engage in ad hominem . . . yet. ;-)

Liar.

IP Backwards recently called me a liar, an attack upon my honor. He had
not one scintilla of evidence to support that filthy lie.

Second: He moos about what he calls "ad hominem" which is a phrase he
learned and stole from me after I had used it regarding HIS blather.

There is much more, but I will reserve it for IP Backwards's next bleat.

He can post cutesy jokes and sometimes agreeable political views, but he
plays fast and loose with the truth and his opinions are unworthy of
serious consideration.

Steve J

"Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by
legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid.
But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is
death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically
and without pity."
--Lazarus Long

>I.P. Freely
>But not on theely
>
>  
I. P. Freely - 14 Dec 2005 03:02 GMT
"Steve Jordan" wrote.
> On December 13, I. P. Backwards wrote, in pertinent part:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> evidence to support that filthy lie.
> "ad hominem" . . . is a phrase he learned and stole from me

Dead horse, Steve, discredited by the archives if anyone cares, including my
Dec 3rd definition of a lie as "If a statement isn't untrue, known by the
author to be untrue, AND deliberate, it ain't a lie." Your shoe fits, so my
choice of words is not ad hominem under any definition I've seen in the
decade since I "stole" the term from the public domain. Calling a spade a
spade, explaining why it's a spade, providing evidence it's a spade, and
explaining why the word "spade" was used is not ad hominem; it's protecting
uninformed new decisionmakers from spades.

I've supported my SE claims with detailed quotes and paraphrases from Strum;
you've merely repeated your anecdotal counterclaims more loudly and bravely
downplayed your own SEs  -- later revealed as much more serious in the eyes
of trials subjects and many individual patients.

Strum, peer-reviewed authors, trials, and a poll of this forum say ADT SEs
pose a FAR greater threat than you repeatedly state. If you would explain
why you reference Strum's ADS work yet deny it, so we might settle this
dispute, I'm sure someone will sneak your response around my renewed PLONK.

I.P. Freely
Thus my pants are not on fire
Brian - 14 Dec 2005 23:32 GMT
> On December 13, I. P. Backwards wrote, in pertinent part:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> IP Backwards recently called me a liar, an attack upon my honor. He had
> not one scintilla of evidence to support that filthy lie.

You manifest a bitter and unforgiving spirit.  Regardless of IP's honor,
or defective honor, or complete lack of honor, you appear to me, by this
comment, to need to spend time talking with the guy in the mirror.
Steve Jordan - 15 Dec 2005 00:01 GMT
On December 14, Brian responded to my criticism of IPB:

>You manifest a bitter and unforgiving spirit.  Regardless of IP's honor,
>or defective honor, or complete lack of honor, you appear to me, by this
>comment, to need to spend time talking with the guy in the mirror.
>  

Brian is, I suppose, trying to be a peacemaker. It is futile.

Brian is correct in one thing: I will never, ever, forgive an attack by
anyone upon my honor. I warned IPB that he was making an implacable
enemy; he did not believe it. The light should now be dawning.

So far as the guy in the mirror is concerned, he entirely agrees with me.

Regards,

Steve J

"I am different from Washington; I have a higher, grander standard of
principle. Washington could not lie. I can lie, but I won't."
--Mark Twain
Brian - 16 Dec 2005 02:43 GMT
> On December 14, Brian responded to my criticism of IPB:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Brian is correct in one thing: I will never, ever, forgive an attack by

ISTR that we are commanded to by Jesus, take care that you do not choose
to remember what He may in fact have decided to forget.

Moreover you risk looking more like the Jihadistani Nitwits or ranting
"Sailors of the Bay of Fundie" than anybody of a mature character.  Rest
assured, I'll someday offend just about everybody.  If you are sworn to
unforgiveness, and I stumble in my common stupidities, any friendship we
have between now and that day will have been thenceforth forever wasted.

> anyone upon my honor. I warned IPB that he was making an implacable
> enemy; he did not believe it. The light should now be dawning.

Who exactly cares?  This is a prostate cancer newsgroup, not a grudge and
vendetta newsgroup.  Hold your breath until you turn blue!  If it changes
your PSA, let us know; otherwise we really couldn't care less.

> So far as the guy in the mirror is concerned, he entirely agrees with
> me.

Choose wiser counsel maybe?
 
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