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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / December 2005

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tooter - 30 Nov 2005 04:19 GMT
Husband has had biopsy every year for the past 3 yrs.  All have been
negative.

After the first two he had blood in his ejaculation for over a month and
half then went to a lighter tan color.

This time it is very sticky, not like before, and it is also a grey color
with NO blood. the first ejaculation was Old blood clot and dark.  From
then on it has been the sicky grey brown color.  Biopsy was done the 12,
and he said it was very painful and told the doctor when seeing him for
results.  All negative but will watch and do again next year.

My question is this?  He is having problems getting hard and shall I use
the word come?  Ejaculating I believe they call it.  Seems he is having
very little feeling there. We realize it is only a month but this has never
happened before.
He is concerned but doesn't want to run it by the doctor, since the biopsy
was negative.

What is going on with that and is that normal for some men??

thanks a bunch.
We posted here last year and asked the question about PSA and Free PSA,
thank you Chris for helping us then.

tooter
tooter - 30 Nov 2005 04:30 GMT
Forgot to say the biopsy was OCTOBER 12,not this month.

tooter
Alan Meyer - 30 Nov 2005 04:51 GMT
> ...
> After the first two he had blood in his ejaculation for over a month and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> then on it has been the sicky grey brown color.
> ...

I'm not a doctor, but here's my non-expert opinion on this.

First the good news.

Blood in the semen is not a symptom of prostate cancer.  It
does not indicate that your husband has a cancer problem.

The not so good news is that this kind of reaction to a biopsy
is not common.  Having a few drops of blood in the semen or
urine for a week or so is not uncommon, but it sounds like
your husband has much worse results than most of us have
had.

It may be unfair to the doctor to say so, but I'm wondering if
the urologist is doing a very poor job of doing the biopsies.
He's inflicting more pain and more damage than he should.
Maybe he's inexperienced, clumsy, or plain incompetent.

I think it's very likely that the damage will heal up just fine
over time.  Most of us on this newsgroup have had far more
damaging surgeries or radiation inflicted on our prostates -
with blood, scars, bruises, radiation burns, and so on - yet
we almost all seem to recover eventually.

Knowing that you're going to ejaculate a bloody mess,
anticipating pain, and worrying about what's happening
to you are not the kind of thoughts that make sex easy
for a man.  That may have a lot to do with the difficulties
he's having now.  Hopefully, when the physical damage
heals up, full sexual function will also return.

I know that doctors can be intimidating.  They usually know
more than we do about what they're doing and they can
make some of us feel bad about criticizing them.  However,
if more procedures are required in the future, maybe your
husband should find a different urologist to do them and
explain carefully to him what happened on the last ones.
It would be ideal if you could find other patients who have
had good experiences with biopsies from whatever doctor
you find.

Best of luck.

   Alan
I. P. Freely - 30 Nov 2005 06:19 GMT
"Alan Meyer" <wrote
> The not so good news is that this kind of reaction to a biopsy
> is not common.  Having a few drops of blood in the semen or
> urine for a week or so is not uncommon, but it sounds like
> your husband has much worse results than most of us have
> had.

IIRC, I read that the ejaculate may contain blood for several weeks. Mine
was a bloody mess and was quite uncomfortable for at least a couple of
weeks, and it seems to me it took several weeks for the last of the
discoloration and discomfort to subside completely.

I.P.
Steve Kramer - 30 Nov 2005 11:19 GMT
Call the doctor, Tooter.  I gotta feeling he hit a nerve, but there might be
something else going on in there.  I have never heard of all those symptoms.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

> Husband has had biopsy every year for the past 3 yrs.  All have been
> negative.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> tooter
Buttercup's Dad - 30 Nov 2005 11:20 GMT
Why is he having biopsies every year?

I would see a doctor about the ejaculate.  That does not sound normal to me.
The blood in mine cleared up in less than two weeks.  The ejaculate was
normal, just with the blood in it and my recollection is that it was red,
not a brownish color.

I would also consider either getting a second opinion from another
urologist, or maybe changing doctors altogether.  A doctor you can't talk to
is of little use.

Good luck.

David S.

> Husband has had biopsy every year for the past 3 yrs.  All have been
> negative.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> tooter
tooter - 30 Nov 2005 14:29 GMT
In 2001 he had his first PSA and it was 3.27 and nothing was done.  His
father had prostate cancer.  Hubby has never had symptoms of any kind.

Then in 2003 he had a physical and another PSA.  that was 4.23 and
enlargement felt.
So he went on antibiotics and had another PSA following to recheck and it
was 4.15
Since his father had cancer there, and then they thought they got it all
and he died a few years later of UNDETECTED Cancer, the doctor said Let's
do a biopsy.

All specimens were neg.

Then in 2004 his PSA was 4.21 and enlargement again.  HIs age was 59  NO
symptoms. so again it was decided to do another biopsy....But was told to
take saw palmento and selenium also after that negative biopsy.

OK then this year 2005 He was told that SAW palmento would mask PSA and it
would be a good idea to have a FREE PSA. Someone on this NG told him that.
He got an order and results are
PSA   3.79  age being 60
And Free PSA of 13% or psa free 0.5
Prostate specific antigen 4.0

Here is what the results told us.  He should indeed have another round of
biopsy because he is in what they call a "grey area"  IF the Free PSA is
over 25% he would be determined to have NO cancer for sure. IF it was below
5% he would Definately have cancer.  SO he is inbetween with a possibility
that indeed he may have cancer and it is not showing up yet.
That is why all the biopsies are done.

NOw the big concern is...is this common to have problems ejaculating ....It
takes him forever..sorry LOL...but he says it seems like that.   To
ejaculate but he does do it.
NO pain now most of the pain was in his anus. And with prep H that helped
it.  He did tell the doc and was told he put stuff on there to numb but it
must not of helped....

What do you think?

toot
Buttercup's Dad - 30 Nov 2005 16:45 GMT
I was diagnosed in April 2003 and did a lot reading like everyone else here.
There has been a lot of water under the bridge since then, so my info is not
up to date.  Also, I am not a doctor.  Remember that please.

First, the free PSA at 13% would raise a flag with me.  I would definitely
want to pursue that further.  Second, from what I have read it is entirely
possible to have multiple biopsies and not find the cancer.  Not normal, not
likely, but possible.  It does happen.  I do not know if there is any
relationship to BPH or prostatitis with the free PSA, but I do know that it
can affect the regular PSA.  The combination of enlarged prostate and that
level of PSA could just be the BPH or prostatitis, thus the negative
biopsies.  But again, the low free PSA is troublesome.  I would want to
check that further.

Not much help I know.   The continued problems with ejaculation and
discoloration in the ejaculate would indicate to me that something is wrong
and I would want to see the doctor about that.

Is seeing a different urologist a possibility?

Good luck.

> In 2001 he had his first PSA and it was 3.27 and nothing was done.  His
> father had prostate cancer.  Hubby has never had symptoms of any kind.
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> toot
judamd@aol.com - 30 Nov 2005 17:29 GMT
My one biopsy resulted in ejaculate that was very watery with a
rootbeer color.  This continued for a week or two and gradually
lightened in color.  However, even my last ejaculate prior to surgery
over two months later still was not "back to normal."  
Dave Perry
Brian - 01 Dec 2005 00:45 GMT
> Husband has had biopsy every year for the past 3 yrs.  All have been
> negative.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> concerned but doesn't want to run it by the doctor, since the biopsy was
> negative.

If life is worth a second biopsy, it's worth a second doctor.  Can you saw
whether the biopsy was done with an ultra-sound guided contraption, or
some other way?

I got my 8 needle biopsy done and had trouble sleeping that night, felt
uncomfortable the next day, and was afterwards just fine.  I don't know
about ejaculate because my wife is 350 miles that-a-way and has been for
20 months.  I have no boyfriend, no girlfriend, and I'm not my own friend.

I have never heard of a biopsy interfering with the ability to acheive
erection nor to complicate reaching orgasm and ejaculating.  His lasting
longer is not necessarily a bad thing...

> tooter
Glassman - 01 Dec 2005 04:55 GMT
> Husband has had biopsy every year for the past 3 yrs.  All have been
> negative.

I think we all take more time ordering a new car and color, than picking
our docs.  The fact that you're not comfortable calling your uro about ANY
problem speaks volumes. Get another uro, and another opinion. Keep changing
until you find the guy that's right for you. By the way, I have a friend
that has a family history and raised PSA, so has a biopsy just about every
year, for years now. So far all negative, but never any complications like
yours.

Signature

"I'm not pompous and agrogant,  I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Brian - 03 Dec 2005 13:25 GMT
>  I think we all take more time ordering a new car and color, than picking
> our docs.  

Dude... next time you go shopping for a doctor, YOU try slamming his door
or peeking under his hood...
c palmer - 01 Dec 2005 19:56 GMT
From: rojakort@bright.net (tooter)
In 2001 he had his first PSA and it was 3.27 and nothing was done. His
father had prostate cancer. Hubby has never had symptoms of any kind.
Then in 2003 he had a physical and another PSA. that was 4.23 and
enlargement felt.
So he went on antibiotics and had another PSA following to recheck and
it was 4.15
Since his father had cancer there, and then they thought they got it all
and he died a few years later of UNDETECTED Cancer, the doctor said
Let's do a biopsy.
All specimens were neg.
Then in 2004 his PSA was 4.21 and enlargement again. HIs age was 59 NO
symptoms. so again it was decided to do another biopsy....But was told
to take saw palmento and selenium also after that negative biopsy.
OK then this year 2005 He was told that SAW palmento would mask PSA and
it would be a good idea to have a FREE PSA. Someone on this NG told him
that. He got an order and results are
PSA   3.79 age being 60
And Free PSA of 13% or psa free 0.5
Prostate specific antigen 4.0
Here is what the results told us. He should indeed have another round of
biopsy because he is in what they call a "grey area" IF the Free PSA is
over 25% he would be determined to have NO cancer for sure. IF it was
below 5% he would Definately have cancer. SO he is inbetween with a
possibility that indeed he may have cancer and it is not showing up yet.
That is why all the biopsies are done.
NOw the big concern is...is this common to have problems ejaculating
...It
takes him forever..sorry LOL...but he says it seems like that.   To
ejaculate but he does do it.
NO pain now most of the pain was in his anus. And with prep H that
helped it. He did tell the doc and was told he put stuff on there to
numb but it must not of helped....
What do you think?
toot
======
hi toot - let's take it one step at a time.

first - the psa issue....you are right about the psa and free psa
information.  but as the prostate cancer develops, the free psa number
will drop.  since it's it in the low teens, that's not a good sign.

next, the biopsy.  remember, it is like finding a needle in the
haystack.  some doctors are really good at it - some suck.  in my case,
i only had 6 needles stuck and the doctor found cancer in both lobes
with just those needle sticks.  and i didn't have large nodes developed
yet as determined by the post op biopsy.  the gland had cancer
throughout it, but the doctor did a great done finding it.  i remember
him teaching some other doctors what the screen representations meant
while this was going on.  so, you might want to switch doctors for the
next biopsy.

next - length of time for recovery.  usually a couple of weeks to a
month normally.  depends on where they shot the needles and what they
hit while they were in there.  if they nicked a blood vessel, it may
take longer to heal.  

next - erectile problems.  it had been known to happen.  the needle
nicks the erectile nerve.  it happens in a low number of cases, but it
does happen.  nothing is without risk.

will send you a private email later.......

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
tooter - 01 Dec 2005 20:54 GMT
Thank you so much for the information.

now how in the devil do you get a guy to call the doc or even change one.
He is stubborn as a mule and believe me "if it was ME being ill"  He would
be screaming at me big time.

thanks again guys for all your knowledge. I will keep in touch.

tooter
I. P. Freely - 01 Dec 2005 22:22 GMT
> now how in the devil do you get a guy to call the doc or even change one.
> He is stubborn as a mule

You could do it for him. Men are macho cowards (no, that's not an oxymoron;
"macho" is Spanish for "stupid" in my book) when it comes to health care,
and it costs many of them dearly.

"Honey, to save you the hassles, because I love you dearly, and because it's
cheaper than that Beemer you wanted for Christmas, I've forwarded your file
to another doc I've heard great things about. Let's get his (I'd usually say
"her" to avert charges of chauvinism, but your guy doesn't sound like he'd
talk too freely with a female uro) opinion; my guy friends over at the
online prostate club emphasize the importance of finding a doctor with whom
they can talk about ANYTHING, whether it's dribbling, penetration, bloody
cum, or other ways to satisfy each other."

Then drag him to the doctor and, if you must, do the talking yourself. You
seem candid enough to pull it off, and you just might have a major impact on
your future together.

As for the Beemer . . . .look like it's gonna be some lucky doc's, not your
husband's, at least this year.

I.P.
Steve U - 01 Dec 2005 22:40 GMT
IP,
While I agree whole heartedly with your idea, the HIPPA privacy laws
forbid a transfer of medical info without the patient's permission.
Applies to the USA only.
Steve U
I. P. Freely - 02 Dec 2005 02:00 GMT
> IP,
> While I agree whole heartedly with your idea, the HIPPA privacy laws
> forbid a transfer of medical info without the patient's permission.

I keep hearing this, but my wife's many docs call me all the time to pass on
details about her diagnoses, treatments, tests, procedures, threats, etc.
She's been getting a head-to-toe workup involving many specialists over the
last several months, and I've had at least 8 calls like that from at least
four different docs in various clinics. The minute I say "She's not here;
can I have her call you back", I get the whole gory report and a "Have her
call if she has questions." I know almost as much about her
breasts/uterus/colon/heart as she does about my prostate. ONE doc finally
asked today whether she could talk freely about Karen's case, so I said,
"Sure"; the others have never asked.

If Tooter's husband won't authorize her to get involved, he's more . . . er
. . . macho than I thought.

I.P.
Buttercup's Dad - 02 Dec 2005 13:21 GMT
I think I could talk to mine about anything, but I would have to draw the
line at "satisfy each other".  I must admit I would feel uncomfortable
talking about oral sex, etc., with him.  My hang-up.  Not his.

>  <snip>
>  my guy friends over at the
> online prostate club emphasize the importance of finding a doctor with whom
> they can talk about ANYTHING, whether it's dribbling, penetration, bloody
> cum, or other ways to satisfy each other."
I. P. Freely - 02 Dec 2005 16:42 GMT
"Buttercup's Dad" wrote...
>I think I could talk to mine about anything, but I would have to draw the
> line at "satisfy each other".  I must admit I would feel uncomfortable
> talking about oral sex, etc., with him.  My hang-up.  Not his.

Mine -- a young man -- has simply said in so many words that there are many
ways to please your lover, and let it go at that. I get the impression that
he'd talk about anything we wanted to discuss, but we do catch him blushing
some times.

I.P.
Beverley - 04 Dec 2005 03:55 GMT
Oral sex makes me think about taking a bunch of preschoolers to the local
zoo. And well, there are these primates and the one old guy decided to
satisfy himself. Now, everything was cool and I was trying to just move the
kids along hoping no one would pay much attention. That worked until a
parent commented on the situation. Then one of the four-year old boys who
asked why he couldn't do it like that. Needless to say, I just bit the
inside of my cheeks.
Bev

> I think I could talk to mine about anything, but I would have to draw the
> line at "satisfy each other".  I must admit I would feel uncomfortable
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> > they can talk about ANYTHING, whether it's dribbling, penetration, bloody
> > cum, or other ways to satisfy each other."
Buttercup's Dad - 02 Dec 2005 13:18 GMT
Sounds familiar.  You should be married to a nurse.  Just this morning I
left one sick in bed with a hacking cough coming from the chest and could
not convince her to call her doctor.  Sigh...

> Thank you so much for the information.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> tooter
Beverley - 04 Dec 2005 03:57 GMT
Tooter is a nurse!
David, hope your wife is feeling better, there's a nasty throat/chest
congestion thing that is not a common cold running around.
Bev

> Sounds familiar.  You should be married to a nurse.  Just this morning I
> left one sick in bed with a hacking cough coming from the chest and could
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> >
> > tooter
JK@work - 03 Dec 2005 20:04 GMT
> Thank you so much for the information.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> tooter

  "Hon",  your uro is not in, due to vacation or broken leg or building
burned down or he got PCa or malpractice or bad divorce or bad press or DUI
............. so I made you an appointment with  a highly recommended guy
for next week.

Signature

"I'm not pompous, I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
http://www.sinrodstudios.com/
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories/

 
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