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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / November 2005

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New to the Group - Need some advise

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CraigS - 21 Nov 2005 15:05 GMT
Hi All,

Really don't know much about PC though I should. As I read through I
can see that I am starting to get to the age "49" where I should
pay attention. Anyway, I need some help please.

My Father in Law was diagnosed with Prostate Cancer three years ago. He
had the radioactive seeds implanted and everything seemed to be going
well. This August he had a check-up here in Connecticut and his PSA was
around 2.0. Went do to Florida (Snow Birds) and started having some
lower back pain. Went to a specialist down there and blood tests came
back with a PSA of 18. He is going for a bone scan today and a hormone
implant.

While I have a lot of questions, I guess we need to wait a bit longer
to get some of the additional test results. However we want him to get
the best care possible and don't really know how good the physicians
are down in Florida. Being from Connecticut we are thinking our Dad
should investigate some follow-up with Yale New Haven or another
facility. Can anyone suggest where the best place(s) would be for him
to get treatment and follow-up?

Thank you all.

Craig ...
ron - 21 Nov 2005 15:43 GMT
Being from Connecticut we are thinking our Dad should investigate some
follow-up with Yale New Haven or another facility. Can anyone suggest
where the best place(s) would be for him to get treatment and
follow-up?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Craig...A PSA jump from 2 to 18 in 4 months is worrisome if due to
PCa.  The docs will probably put him on antibiotics and see if the PSA
level is reduced.  Antibiotics will treat a bacterial infection, but
not a viral infection, both can lead to a marked rise in PSA.
Measuring PAP (prostatic acid phosphatase) levels in the blood is one
thing that can be done to try and assess whether the disease has become
systemic.  If it is concluded that the PCa is systemic, then a good
oncologist who specializes in PCa would be of value.  A geographical
listing of such oncologists can be found at

http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/camedon.htm

Nice of you to be so caring for your FIL.  Hope this helps...Best
wishes and good health, Ron
Buttercup's Dad - 21 Nov 2005 17:47 GMT
Craig:
   I cannot help you with your question, but I am sure there are others
here who can.
   My only comment is about your age, 49, and that you "should (start to)
pay attention".  Not to scare you, but see the post by USC Gamecock.  He was
37 when diagnosed.  There are others here in the same boat.  The point is
that men need to start paying attention to this long before age 50.  I just
want to encourage you to get tested and maybe to read up some on this
disease so you know about PSA's, and PSA Free, PSA velocity, and so forth.
   Good luck to you and to your father-in-law.
   Thank you.
David S.
Steve U - 21 Nov 2005 23:17 GMT
Craig S.,
I'm in Connecticut. I was 50 yrs old when I got the bed news. I am very
pleased with my results and with the doctors at Hartford Hospital. The
Connecticut Surgical Group Urology Department is excellent. Dr Joseph
Wagner  did my surgery. The radiation oncologists and the regular
oncologists at Hartford also have excellent reputations. The hospital
also has one of the oldest and largest prostate support groups. There
is a separate section for advanced cancer guys. I'm very biased. If you
are looking for prostate cancer care in Ct, Hartford Hospital is the
best.
Steve U
Steve Kramer - 21 Nov 2005 23:45 GMT
First, I'd have to say that they probably have very good doctors in Florida,
just like anywhere else in the world.  They might even have seen quite a few
more prostate problems in Florida considering the sheer number of
prostate-problem-aged people down there.

However, leveling out for three years and suddenly jumping from 2.0 to 18.0
in 3 months is hard for me to swallow.  I would bet a considerable amount
that you do not have the numbers right, your FIL doesn't have the numbers
right, the doc does not or the lab screwed up.

> Hi All,
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Craig ...
Alan Meyer - 22 Nov 2005 05:34 GMT
> ...
> However, leveling out for three years and suddenly jumping from 2.0 to 18.0 in 3 months
> is hard for me to swallow.  I would bet a considerable amount that you do not have the
> numbers right, your FIL doesn't have the numbers right, the doc does not or the lab
> screwed up.
...

Steve,

I think you're right that this kind of jump is unusual, but it's not unknown.
Didn't Ron Figueroa have a similar jump at one point after his
treatment?  Another friend of mine says that his doctor told him
his PSA was normal one year, but 300 at the next annual physical
exam and 500 by the time they got him on hormone therapy.  Of
course it's always possible that the doctor screwed up and didn't
even do a PSA test at the previous physical.

The bad news is, this may be a strong indication of cancer
metastasis.  The good news is that the metastasis (if that's what
it is) seems to have been detected early.

Craig,

Hopefully, your FIL will have a good response to hormone therapy.
I believe that Ron is now way below 0.1 PSA on HT.  My other friend
who had the PSA of 500 told me his last reading was 6 after a few
months on HT.

Some men live for many years on HT.  It's a crap shoot.  It all
depends on how hormone dependent the cancer is.  Some men
have highly testosterone dependent cancers that respond to HT
for 10 or 15 years.  Others only get a short time out of it.  A good
indication will be how low his PSA goes on HT.  The lower it goes,
the longer his positive response is likely to be.

There are some other PCa drugs in clinical trials that may also
be helpful and be available by the time your FIL needs them.
Depending on how old he is now, there is still a decent chance
that he will live to die of something other than prostate cancer.

Best of luck,

   Alan
Heather - 22 Nov 2005 06:50 GMT
>> ...
>> However, leveling out for three years and suddenly jumping from 2.0 to
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Didn't Ron Figueroa have a similar jump at one point after his
> treatment?  >

Hi Alan.........yes, Ron went from 3.6 in Feb. of 2004 to 13 in
August....from there it jumped to 16, then 20 and up to 24 by the middle of
October, 2004.

After trying Cipro, ruling out the wrong results, CT scan, bone scan, (all
negative) etc., he went on HT on Oct. 26th, 2004 and his first PSA was 0.05
in January of 2005.  That was the lowest number here in this City.

It has stayed *undetectible* since then and the more sensitive lab test at
Sunnybrook's Cancer Care Centre in Toronto came in last week at *below
0.02*!!!!

Dr. Loblaw suggested intermittent HT, but Ron was not keen on that.  He is
still on Casodex as well, but he cut out the Megace and hasn't had any night
sweats so far.  Doubt that he will.  His testosterone level was extremely
low (0.1), so that obviously accounts for his lack of strength.  We are
doing another test tomorrow for *ferratin*.....just to see how much iron is
in the blood.

What a difference in the two oncologists!!  The one out here said "not one
of my 200 patients has weak legs from HT"......Dr. Loblaw said most of his
did.  Needless to say, we will be sticking with Dr. Loblaw from here on in!!

Cheers.........Heather

> Craig,
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>    Alan
Alan Meyer - 22 Nov 2005 22:33 GMT
...
> It has stayed *undetectible* since then and the more sensitive lab test at
> Sunnybrook's Cancer Care Centre in Toronto came in last week at *below
> 0.02*!!!!

I'm no doctor, but I can't recall reading about anyone getting that
low on HT.  Sounds to me like Ron lost the cancer metastasis
lottery, but he won the cancer/hormone sensitivity lottery.  I'm
hoping that you'll still be reporting his numbers to us 20 years
from now.

> Dr. Loblaw suggested intermittent HT, but Ron was not keen on that.  He is
> still on Casodex as well, but he cut out the Megace and hasn't had any night
> sweats so far.  Doubt that he will.  His testosterone level was extremely
> low (0.1), so that obviously accounts for his lack of strength.  We are
> doing another test tomorrow for *ferratin*.....just to see how much iron is
> in the blood.

It's amazing how powerful tiny amounts of hormone are.  An
average human male has 5 liters of blood with maybe 500
nanograms (billionths of a gram) of testosterone in each deciliter
(tenth of a liter).  That means we're talking about a grand total of
25 millionths of a gram of testosterone in total in an average man.
Yet it seems to have a huge effect on muscle tone, energy, libido,
and other things.

> What a difference in the two oncologists!!  The one out here said "not one
> of my 200 patients has weak legs from HT"......Dr. Loblaw said most of his
> did.  Needless to say, we will be sticking with Dr. Loblaw from here on in!!

If only arrogant doctors could see themselves as their patients
see them. ...

   Alan
Heather - 23 Nov 2005 04:12 GMT
> ...
>> It has stayed *undetectible* since then and the more sensitive lab test
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> hoping that you'll still be reporting his numbers to us 20 years
> from now.

Thank you so much!!  That is so comforting to hear.  I know the doctors have
been really surprised and pleased.  It's been a tough year, but I am now
seeing a light at the end of the tunnel!!  Now that we are back at
Sunnybrook and with Dr. Loblaw.

>> What a difference in the two oncologists!!  The one out here said "not
>> one of my 200 patients has weak legs from HT"......Dr. Loblaw said most
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> If only arrogant doctors could see themselves as their patients
> see them. ...

That is how my pharmacist described him.  And our family doctor agreed with
me that we should go back to Sunnybrook.  The one out here was outspoken and
quite funny, really.  But when it came to getting answers out of him re
Ron's physical problems, he shrugged us off with the statement "there must
be something else wrong with you.....go see your family doctor because it is
not in my field of expertise".  We were shocked by that cavalier attitude.

Best...Heather
Steve Kramer - 22 Nov 2005 11:39 GMT
He was 2.0 for years, including in AUG/05, then 18 in NOV/05.  He gained 16
in three months.

Ron was  3.5 for a year, then 12 in AUG/04, then 20.49 in SEPT/04, then 24
OCT/04.  If he was 3.5 in MAY/04, he gained 20 in 5 months and 16 in his
firt three months.

I stand corrected.  Thanks for correcting me, Alan.

>> ...
>> However, leveling out for three years and suddenly jumping from 2.0 to
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
>    Alan
 
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