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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / December 2005

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You smiled, you spoke, and I believed - 21 Nov 2005 01:45 GMT
Tomorrow, 11/21 is my date for brachytherapy.

My biospy was sept 17th.  postive on 2 out of 18.  gleason only 5 total.

Dr told me that there were three options, surgery, do nothing or
radiation ( seeds or external)

I opted for seeding.

I have been reading this group since I was informed, about the 1st of Oct.

Tripidation, fear, cowardice, whatever, I am bothered about tomorrow.

It will be a life changing event, but how much I don't know.

J.

I have had radiation treatment before, and the drs did not inform of
exactly what the effects would be, possibly they did not know.

I had hyperthyroidism, they gave me radioactive Iodine, and my thyroid
was killed.  I take a thyroid supplement, but it is not the same, I have
extreme (EXTREME) temperature sensitivity now, unlike before. No one
told me of this problem.  When I tell the drs, well, I just have to live
with it.

I am afraid that destroying my prostate, will have similar, unknown effects.

J.

My options are limited.

Thanks for listening.

j.
peter*pan - 21 Nov 2005 01:56 GMT
I also nuked my thyroid - never experienced the temp sensitivity though.
Seems I just keep taking parts out!
Steve Jordan - 21 Nov 2005 02:18 GMT
On November 20, J wrote:

> Tomorrow, 11/21 is my date for brachytherapy.

(snip)

> I am afraid that destroying my prostate, will have similar, unknown
> effects. (to the radiation therapy to his thyroid)

Some men on this NG have had brachytherapy, and might be able to give some
*anecdotal* insight into what to expect.

Meanwhile, I recommend referral to:
http://www.prostate-cancer.org/education/localdis/scholz_newlydiagnosed2.html
Which is a section of the authoritative Prostate Cancer Research Institute
website. Once there, search on "brachytherapy."

The primary SE appears to be possible urinary difficulties that clear up in
a few months.

Every tx has its SEs. It seems a pity that J has not had a full briefing on
this from his medic long before now. He certainly should have, but all too
many medics simply ignore SEs and leave patients to cope as best they can.

Regards,

Steve J

"'MD' does not mean 'Medical Deity.'"
-- Stephen B. Strum, MD
Glassman - 21 Nov 2005 03:33 GMT
> Tomorrow, 11/21 is my date for brachytherapy.
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> j.

     I have to ask you how you chose a method of treatment, knowing so
little about the various side effects?  Anyway... good luck and I hope all
turns out fine!

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"I'm not pompous and agrogant,  I'm SNARKY"
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Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
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I. P. Freely - 21 Nov 2005 04:15 GMT
>      I have to ask you how you chose a method of treatment, knowing so
> little about the various side effects?

Particularly in light of the conclusion of several well-known researchers
who explicitly advise choosing subsequent treatments by their side effects,
because there's no difference among second treatments' outcomes. It's not
too late to do some more research first, and a week or two won't hurt you.

Best of luck whatever you choose.

I.P.
Glassman - 21 Nov 2005 04:25 GMT
> >      I have to ask you how you chose a method of treatment, knowing so
> > little about the various side effects?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> I.P.

 I have to tell you that I was all ready to get seeded. It sounded too good
to be true. Quick easy painless the radio commercial said. Back at work the
next day. Pinpoint placement, etc. I was shocked to find out that they kill
the entire prostate! I really thought that they put the seeds around the
tumor, and killed off the cancer cells ONLY. Irritated bowel, possible
damage to nearby organs, seeds mysteriously moving around your body, all
kind of changed my mind.  It didn't help that the doc I saw was the very
same that got fired because he got poor old George Harrison to sign a guitar
for his son, while he was dying. Maybe in a Star Trek world they will beam
out the tumor, leaving all the rest pink and healthy.

Signature

"I'm not pompous and agrogant,  I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Alan Meyer - 21 Nov 2005 05:06 GMT
> ...
>  I have to tell you that I was all ready to get seeded. It sounded too good
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> out the tumor, leaving all the rest pink and healthy.
> ...

I think they seed the entire prostate for the same reason that
surgeons remove the entire prostate.  Even though cancer may
only be found in a few spots, there is a danger of microscopic
cancer in the rest of the prostate, and also a danger that whatever
biological process resulted in cancer in the few spots where it
was found is still at work in the rest of the prostate and may result
in cancer there in the future.

Radiation does damage the tissue.  Further operations on that
tissue become more difficult.  For example, surgery on radiated
tissue is much more difficult and dangerous than on healthy
tissue, which is why salvage prostatectomy after radiation is
relatively rare.  So that's another reason to do the entire prostate
at once.  Do it all at once because it's more difficult and dangerous
to do it twice.

Seeds moving around is a possibility.  I was told by a radiation
oncologist that he has often seen one seed leave the prostate
out of a hundred planted.  He said it was undesirable, but not
dangerous.  The seeds do lose potency over time.

Irritated bowel and damage to nearby organs are indeed
possibilities.  In fact, I would say they are near certainties.  The
big question is, How much irritation and damage will there be?
In my case, so far, they have been pretty tolerable.

All in all, from the reading I've done, and from my experience,
I'd have to say that brachytherapy is one of the easier treatments
for PCa.  I had two HDR brachytherapies.  In both cases, the
procedures were performed on a Thursday and I was back at
work the following Monday.  The worst side effect I experienced
was urinary urgency and blockage.  It required treatment with
Flowmax for about 4 months after the second brachytherapy.

> ... Maybe in a Star Trek world they will beam
> out the tumor, leaving all the rest pink and healthy.

That's the treatment I want!

   Alan
Glassman - 22 Nov 2005 04:41 GMT
> > ...
> >  I have to tell you that I was all ready to get seeded. It sounded too good
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>
>     Alan

 I really didn't mean to object to seeds as a good treatment. I was only
relaying my personal experience and reasons for my choice. Seeding is a
great method, and I know many that are very happy with it. Let me add that I
was a really poor urinator before. I was up several times a night, and hated
it. One of the reasons I chose RP was getting all my pipes rerouted and
cleaned out. I pee now like a youngster.

Signature

"I'm not pompous and agrogant,  I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Alan Meyer - 22 Nov 2005 23:01 GMT
> ...
>   I really didn't mean to object to seeds as a good treatment. I was only
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> it. One of the reasons I chose RP was getting all my pipes rerouted and
> cleaned out. I pee now like a youngster.

I have a similar regret about radiation.  I had some prostatitis before
radiation.  I still have it after.  If I had RP, it would have
eliminated
the prostatitis along with the cancer.

But the prostatitis isn't too bad and I'm still happy with my choice.
The real question is: Did we stop the cancer.  I won't know the
answer to that one for a long time.  At least I hope I won't know
because the only way I'll know one way or the other for absolute
sure is if the cancer comes back.

If my cancer comes back, I'll always wonder if RP would have been
a better treatment.  But I won't get wrapped around the axle thinking
about that.  If the cancer comes back it's always possible RP
wouldn't have gotten it either, or that I would have been hit be a
truck while walking into the hospital for my RP.

What might have been just isn't a fruitful thing to think about.

   Alan
I. P. Freely - 23 Nov 2005 03:55 GMT
> What might have been just isn't a fruitful thing to think about.

And one way to help prevent thinking about it is to do sufficient research
in advance that your DECISION is undeniably valid even if the OUTCOME
wasn't.

I.P.
Buttercup's Dad - 21 Nov 2005 13:37 GMT
Good luck!

I was RRP, so cannot help you on the brachytherapy experience, but you are
in the right place to find others who know from personal experience and who
can answer questions.  All will offer support where we can.

David S.

> Tomorrow, 11/21 is my date for brachytherapy.
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> j.
Ron B - 21 Nov 2005 14:02 GMT
We are all here for you J.

We wish you the very best.

Ron B.

Chicago
Pops - 21 Nov 2005 14:57 GMT
I'll just add another factor to this discussion. 2 out of 18 cores
positive (~10%) with a max Gleason of 5.

Gleason of 5 = 2+3 or 3+2?

Stage = ?

How old are you?

Depending on the answers to these questions you might very well
consider Watchful Waiting as the treatment of choice. This treatment
has no SEs (until symptoms develop) but you may very well be one of
those folks that dies with PCa rather than from it...

Remember that your radiation oncologist or  urologist doesn't make any
money if you decide on Watchful Waiting. Are these DR. folks all
altruistic? They're supposed to be, but I seriously doubt it...

Do your homework. We'll help, through our experiences,  where we can...
Steve Kramer - 22 Nov 2005 01:04 GMT
Pops,

Jerry is 62, T1 and Stage 5.  I don't believe he ever gave his PSA or Stage
pairings.

> I'll just add another factor to this discussion. 2 out of 18 cores
> positive (~10%) with a max Gleason of 5.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Do your homework. We'll help, through our experiences,  where we can...
Steve U - 21 Nov 2005 22:38 GMT
J,
You are in my prayers for good results. I picked RP, but I know lots of
guys who are pleased with the seeds.
Steve U
Steve Kramer - 22 Nov 2005 00:58 GMT
Well, Jerry, you decision is made.  Don't look back now.

I hope things went well for you today and look forward to your next post.

> Tomorrow, 11/21 is my date for brachytherapy.
>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> j.
You smiled, you spoke, and I believed - 22 Nov 2005 15:30 GMT
> Tomorrow, 11/21 is my date for brachytherapy.
>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
> j.

Thanks for all the replies and support.

I did my research, looked at all the literature, lurked on this group,
and decided on brachytherapy, due to the minimal side effects.

However, as I stated, my thyroid treatment resulted in extreme
temperature sensitivity,  btw,  my wife is having hot flashes, luckily
our car has two temperature zones.

None of the doctors told me about the temp problem, and that is what I
am concerned about.

For instance, I learned of the "dry orgasm" here.  The doctors did
discuss possible sex problems, but not in that detail.

Anyway, I had the procedure yesterday, seemed to go very well, I am
home, with a bag of rice between my legs, (learned of this in this
group) and actually feel fairly well.

Some blood drainage, seems to be minimal today, some burning not bad,
can urinate so feel ok.

I guess my problem is just fear of the unknown.

j.

Thanks.
I. P. Freely - 22 Nov 2005 17:22 GMT
> I am home, with a bag of rice between my legs\

No, no, no . . . that's not what the cooking instructions meant. When they
said you can boil or nuke the rice, they were referring to the MICROWAVE,
not nuclear radiation.   :-)

I.P.
Steve Kramer - 22 Nov 2005 23:06 GMT
Welcome to that club, too, Jerry.  We all fear the unknown.

Glad your procedure went well.  Now, expect a slow reduction of PSA and
eventual leveling out for the 20 or 30 years....

>> Tomorrow, 11/21 is my date for brachytherapy.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
>
> Thanks.
You smiled, you spoke, and I believed - 01 Dec 2005 23:32 GMT
>> Tomorrow, 11/21 is my date for brachytherapy.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
>
> Thanks.

today is December 1st.  The physical discomfort from the insertion of
the "seeds" has passed.

I have noticed a new symptom, I am tired, fatigued.

I took off a week from work, I am an attorney, but by the end of the
week, I had two many phone calls and problems piling up, so I started
back to work.

However, I get tired, feeling foggy sbout 3 pm.

Today, I was tired when I got to work at 9 am, went home at noon.

Is this normal?

How long should this last?

jerry
Steve Kramer - 02 Dec 2005 00:28 GMT
> I have noticed a new symptom, I am tired, fatigued.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> How long should this last?

I did not have Brachy, but I did have EBRT.  Radiation is radiation.  Your
seeds are destroying cells -- all cells -- within a certain distance of each
seed.  Your body is rushing in trying to repair the cells that are
destroyed.  Your body is working day and night.

I slept an hour every night while I was getting treatment.  And my wife told
me I was still fatigued (I didn't notice).

Others here can probably tell you how long.  My problems lasted 35 weeks,
but that is how long the treatment lasted.  You are dealing with half-lifes.
Steve Kramer - 02 Dec 2005 00:41 GMT
> I slept an hour every night while I was getting treatment.  And my wife
> told me I was still fatigued (I didn't notice).

I meant to type "an extra hour every night"

> Others here can probably tell you how long.  My problems lasted 35 weeks,
> but that is how long the treatment lasted.  You are dealing with
> half-lifes.

I didn't mean others here can tell you how long I was fatigued.  I meant
others here can tell you how long the Brachy fatigue lasts.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

Glassman - 02 Dec 2005 01:19 GMT
> today is December 1st.  The physical discomfort from the insertion of
> the "seeds" has passed.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> week, I had two many phone calls and problems piling up, so I started
> back to work.

  Surely there must be a good "in poor taste" attorney joke in here
somewhere? Lawyers, radiation, PCA, TWO many phone calls, etc etc. Anyone?

Signature

"I'm not pompous and agrogant,  I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

You smiled, you spoke, and I believed - 02 Dec 2005 04:23 GMT
>>today is December 1st.  The physical discomfort from the insertion of
>>the "seeds" has passed.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>    Surely there must be a good "in poor taste" attorney joke in here
> somewhere? Lawyers, radiation, PCA, TWO many phone calls, etc etc. Anyone?

good point, I told you i was fatigued.

jerry

humor:

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ed - 25 Dec 2005 15:30 GMT
> >> Tomorrow, 11/21 is my date for brachytherapy.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 80 lines]
>
> jerry

This is a phase,  I went thru it also.  Perhaps the doctor can give you
something to alieve the fatigue but i think it lasted about 2 to 21/2
weeks then it started to disapate.  I was taking naps in the
afternoon.....A bit frustrating but not the worst experience...After 3
weeks or so the seeds start to lose their strength, perhaps that is
linked to the fatigue.  Ed
You smiled, you spoke, and I believed - 05 Dec 2005 18:33 GMT
> Thanks for all the replies and support.

today is Dec 5th.

Still tired, got to work today, after about 20 min just felt like a fog
coming over me.

went to samsclub and bought a printer, picked up and put in cart, and
then I was exhausted for next hour or so.

My son, who is graduate school, in biochemistry told me was most likely
due to red blood cells being depleted, that I should take iron pills and
ask doctor about epo.

all pain and discomfort due to seeding is gone.

am taking flo-max,and have to get up about every one and half hours to
urinate.

still burns during urination.

j.
Glassman - 05 Dec 2005 20:36 GMT
> went to samsclub and bought a printer, picked up and put in cart, and
> then I was exhausted for next hour or so.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> all pain and discomfort due to seeding is gone.

  Eat MEAT....

Signature

"I'm not pompous and agrogant,  I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

You smiled, you spoke, and I believed - 06 Dec 2005 18:45 GMT
>>went to samsclub and bought a printer, picked up and put in cart, and
>>then I was exhausted for next hour or so.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>    Eat MEAT....

btw I have another problem, I have not seen on this group yet.

I am waking up every morning with an erection.  Something that hasn't
happened to me in at least 20 yrs or so.

Sometimes, when I get up in the night to go urinate, I have one too.

j.
Steve Kramer - 07 Dec 2005 00:04 GMT
> btw I have another problem, I have not seen on this group yet.
>
> I am waking up every morning with an erection.  Something that hasn't
> happened to me in at least 20 yrs or so.
>
> Sometimes, when I get up in the night to go urinate, I have one too.

I used to have what I have heard called as "piss hard ons".  I think that is
what  you are experiencing.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

MH - 07 Dec 2005 00:27 GMT
>> btw I have another problem, I have not seen on this group yet.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I used to have what I have heard called as "piss hard ons".  I think that
> is what  you are experiencing.

Call 'em what you want, Glassman....  Just *enjoy* them! Some of us are not
so lucky! :))

MikeH
Glassman - 07 Dec 2005 23:16 GMT
> >> btw I have another problem, I have not seen on this group yet.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> MikeH

  Geez Steve you know you're in trouble when they're confusing you with me!

Signature

"I'm not pompous and agrogant,  I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Glassman - 07 Dec 2005 23:15 GMT
> > btw I have another problem, I have not seen on this group yet.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I used to have what I have heard called as "piss hard ons".  I think that is
> what  you are experiencing.

  WOW Steve haven't heard that expression in many years. My long dead
brother used to use it. Thank's for the memories.

Signature

"I'm not pompous and agrogant,  I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

I. P. Freely - 07 Dec 2005 07:09 GMT
"You smiled, you spoke, and I believed" crowed
> I am waking up every morning with an erection.  Something that hasn't
> happened to me in at least 20 yrs or so.
>
> Sometimes, when I get up in the night to go urinate, I have one too.

Man, there's a braggart in every crowd!  ;-)

I.P.
 
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