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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / November 2005

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A dry orgasm is not much fun

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jhhtexas@ieee.org - 07 Nov 2005 18:01 GMT
It has been 17 months since my RRP and I now have normal sexual
function with the help of Levitra including erections sufficient for
full penetration. One thing that bothers me, however, is my dry orgasm.
It causes a mild pain throughout my groin which lasts about 20 seconds
then goes away. I know the sperm ducts are cut as is done with a
vasectomy and the sperm is absorbed into the groin area during orgasm.
Is that what causes the pain? Do the many men who had vasectomies
suffer the same symptoms? I still have the usual relief and warm glow
30 seconds after the orgasm so it is still worth doing. The orgasm
itself has somewhat lost its luster though.
Leonard Evens - 07 Nov 2005 18:46 GMT
> It has been 17 months since my RRP and I now have normal sexual
> function with the help of Levitra including erections sufficient for
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> 30 seconds after the orgasm so it is still worth doing. The orgasm
> itself has somewhat lost its luster though.

I don't experience any pain with orgasm, although I did once or twice
early on.  I doubt very much that tying off the sperm ducts could
produce pain.  Most likely it is some muscular thing in your groin area.
 You should discuss it with your urologist who may have seen other
patients with a similar response.

My orgasms were pretty minimal after surgery, but have recovered some
since.  They are still quite uneven in quality.  Some of this is just
aging I think, because there seemed to be a trend in that direction for
me before surgery.  But I think the lack of a prostate may also have
something to do with it.   I think there may be some considerable normal
variation in how men experience orgasms and for some of us the prostate
itself may play a more important role than for others.   My attitude is
that life is not perfect and it gets progressively less perfect as we
get older.   Sexual activity is still well worth the effort, even if
strong orgasms are not so frequenct as previously.   Also, worrying
about it is likely to exaggerate the problem.

I think there is some folklore that with age men's orgasms deteriorate
and women's improve.   If so, maybe we just have some debt to pay back
in that area.  ;-)
Doug Taylor - 07 Nov 2005 22:55 GMT
> I still have the usual relief and warm glow
>30 seconds after the orgasm so it is still worth doing. The orgasm
>itself has somewhat lost its luster though.

Same result for radiation patients.  Libido low, no erection without
"Vitamin V," orgasm lackluster.

What a switch to have the wife the one who asks for it, and me the one
with the headache :-)

Crappy sex life better than the alternative, though, I wager.
--dt
Tdub - 08 Nov 2005 03:06 GMT
Sex and procreation are for kids. Us geezers are supposed to indulge in
more cerebral activities at our age . . .
Dick Smith - 08 Nov 2005 03:36 GMT
I. P. Freely - 08 Nov 2005 06:55 GMT
> Sex and procreation are for kids. Us geezers are supposed to indulge in
> more cerebral activities at our age . . .

Doesn't that mean we should exercise our head every chance we get?

I.P.
DonC - 08 Nov 2005 17:16 GMT
> Sex and procreation are for kids. Us geezers are supposed to indulge in
> more cerebral activities at our age . . .

Hey Tdub,

When does one become a geezer?   I'm only 63 and am still multi-tasking,
i.e., sex AND cerebral activities : )

Don
ron - 08 Nov 2005 18:07 GMT
DonC wrote...snip
> I'm only 63 and am still multi-tasking, i.e., sex AND cerebral activities : )

At the same time!?!  Don't tell me you have one of those reading racks,
like I have on my exercise equipment, suspended from your bed frame!  :
)   ...Ron
DonC - 08 Nov 2005 20:52 GMT
Sure!  I think while I'm have sex.  Isn't that cerebral?

> DonC wrote...snip
>> I'm only 63 and am still multi-tasking, i.e., sex AND cerebral activities
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> like I have on my exercise equipment, suspended from your bed frame!  :
> )   ...Ron
Steve U - 08 Nov 2005 12:23 GMT
jhhte,
I don't think that blocked off sperm has any effect. I had a vasectomy
back when I was 30, and it had no effect on sex, except we could forget
about contraceptives. After RP, orgasm has gotten better for me. It
lasts about 3 times as long, and is very intense. My doctor told me
about 20% of his patients report that. About 20% tell him it is worse.
There was an article in the British Journal of Urology in the summer of
2004 that involved asurvey of post RP guys about orgasm. Results as
follows:
4% better
20% same
37% worse
37% anorgasmic
Some people got better with time.
Steve U
Tdub - 09 Nov 2005 15:43 GMT
I still say that all this talk about S-E-X after 60 is like
grandparents complaining that they can't make sand castles at the beach
all day long, or with as much energy, as when they were kids . . . I
mean, isn't there a "time for all seasons"? I realize most of you are
shocked at the thought of this, but I think it is better if older folks
have a different frame of mind than a teenager . . . ("OK, go ahead and
(try and) have sex, if you can, see what I care.")
I. P. Freely - 09 Nov 2005 16:05 GMT
> isn't there a "time for all seasons"? I realize most of you are
> shocked at the thought of this, but I think it is better if older folks
> have a different frame of mind than a teenager.

Why? If it still works and still provides pleasure, isn't this a BETTER time
for it than back when it risked unwanted pregnancies? Shouldn't freedom from
fertility (hers, anyway), condoms (presuming one is in a long-term
monogamous relationship), school and career obligations (if we managed both
of those well), peer pressure, and inhibitions provide a boost to our
libido? Isn't it therefore a pity that so many of us screw like sloths
rather than like bunnies?

I'd LIKE to be a bunny again, but it's not in the cards -- or my pants -- so
I don't dwell on it. But I can still pursue my sports longer and better than
most teenagers can, so I have no intention of changing that frame of mind
until nature forces me to.

I.P. Better Than Ever
So on average I've come out even
DonC - 09 Nov 2005 17:03 GMT
>I still say that all this talk about S-E-X after 60 is like
> grandparents complaining that they can't make sand castles at the beach
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> have a different frame of mind than a teenager . . . ("OK, go ahead and
> (try and) have sex, if you can, see what I care.")

Comparing SEX to making sand castles????? <BIG SMILE>

Many of us "older folks"  -- I personally prefer "mature folks" -- have a
much different perspective re SEX than most teenagers.  Most often a teeny
sees sex as a form of self-satisfaction which I guess may be OK.   Many of
us mature folks also consider it an important part of an mutually intimate
relationship with a significant other.  In my case; my best friend, soul
mate and cherished companion for over 40 years.  And since the feeling is
mutual,  the abandonment of sex while the option still exists is
unthinkable.  We certainly can live without it, but why should we even
consider it?  <BIGGER SMILE>

Cheers,

Don
Stavros Moschos - 10 Nov 2005 21:35 GMT
I really do believe that sexuality is not life-long.  It's not there in
childhood and it's not there in old age.  That's just the way life is and
how we are made. Some do have it pass earlier, some later.  If PCa treatment
takes it away and we are not really young any more, I think we should just
accept that with equanimity and as being just part of life anyway--and be
glad we are alive.  Our culture is obsessed with sex and that is not very
healthy.

>I still say that all this talk about S-E-X after 60 is like
> grandparents complaining that they can't make sand castles at the beach
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> have a different frame of mind than a teenager . . . ("OK, go ahead and
> (try and) have sex, if you can, see what I care.")
Steve Kramer - 10 Nov 2005 21:47 GMT
Excellent point.  I have looked at life that way, i.e., we're all going to
die of something so what difference if it is to be PCa?  But, I never
considered sex in the same light.  We are all going to lose it at some
point.  Admittedly I would have liked to have lost it a decade or two later
than 46, but that's just timing.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
non Illegitimi carborundum

> I really do believe that sexuality is not life-long.  It's not there in
> childhood and it's not there in old age.  That's just the way life is and
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> > have a different frame of mind than a teenager . . . ("OK, go ahead and
> > (try and) have sex, if you can, see what I care.")
DonC - 10 Nov 2005 22:00 GMT
Agree.... except the sex culture is obsessed with is the passionate
one-night what's-in-it-for-me type.

There will always be a place for unselfish intimate sex -- IMHO : )

>I really do believe that sexuality is not life-long.  It's not there in
>childhood and it's not there in old age.  That's just the way life is and
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>> have a different frame of mind than a teenager . . . ("OK, go ahead and
>> (try and) have sex, if you can, see what I care.")
I. P. Freely - 10 Nov 2005 22:14 GMT
>I really do believe that sexuality is not life-long.  It's not there in
>childhood and it's not there in old age.  That's just the way life is and
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>anyway--and be glad we are alive.  Our culture is obsessed with sex and
>that is not very healthy.

Millions of old men believe that, too, and many of them unnecessarily miss a
lot of good sex. The very fact that many old men have good (I'm not saying
great) sex proves it possible; if I didn't know what impairs my sex life,
I'd be trying hard to find out what is impairing it, as many problems are
reversible. The most common cause of ED at our age is vascular disease,
which is often self-inflicted, often dangerous, and often reversible or at
least treatable. It should be considered a symptom of a greater problem
until diagnoses prove otherwise.

I.P.
Brian - 10 Nov 2005 22:59 GMT
> I really do believe that sexuality is not life-long.  It's not there in
> childhood and it's not there in old age.  

My 75 year old dad would politely disagree.  He has come to the conclusion
that the affection and trust is more important than the arousal and
climax, but he hasn't quit making love with his sweetie.

> Our culture is obsessed with sex and that is not very healthy.

Statement I agree with!
Roger - 15 Nov 2005 23:38 GMT
I am now 63 and I had a RRP @ age 58 on OCT 17, 2000 one nerve spared.  My
PSA have been close to zero and the Red Cross will a accept my blood again
since I have been cancer free for over 5 years.  With a lot of help from my
wife, we have intercourse usally without  any drugs.  My ogasm since the
operation has been less than what I had before the RRP.  However, it has
improved over time.  My errections are still getting better and my orgasms
are now (last several months) about the same as pre RRP.  I was told that
these things would  not improve after 1-2 years.  Not true in my case.  I
just thought that my experience may be helpful to some in the group.

                               Roger


I. P. Freely - 16 Nov 2005 01:09 GMT
Darn right your continuing improvement is encouraging! I've never heard it
could improve past a couple of years, and still have some hope that my
continuing improvement at one year has a chance of continuing to continue.

I.P.

> I just thought that my experience may be helpful to some in the group.
baldycotton - 16 Nov 2005 08:12 GMT
> My errections are still getting better and my orgasms
>are now (last several months) about the same as pre RRP.

Congrats on your improvement, Roger.

I mis-read your sentence above, thinking you said your orgasms last
several months...  

That would be a record, no doubt.
I. P. Freely - 16 Nov 2005 18:12 GMT
"baldycotton" wrote>
> I mis-read your sentence above, thinking you said your orgasms last
> several months...
> That would be a record, no doubt.

I'll have whatever he's having.

I.P.
Steve Kramer - 16 Nov 2005 23:18 GMT
Welcome to the NG Roger.  I will never forget October 17, 2000 -- is was the
day my first PSA came back elevated.

Five years of undetectable is fantastic!  Keep in touch, please.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
non Illegitimi carborundum

>  I am now 63 and I had a RRP @ age 58 on OCT 17, 2000 one nerve spared.  My
> PSA have been close to zero and the Red Cross will a accept my blood again
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>                                 Roger
Buttercup's Dad - 09 Nov 2005 16:49 GMT
Same experience here with pain with orgasm (when I can get one).  I just
figured it was the "dry pumping".  My RRP was in August of 2003, and this
has not gotten any better over time.

> It has been 17 months since my RRP and I now have normal sexual
> function with the help of Levitra including erections sufficient for
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> 30 seconds after the orgasm so it is still worth doing. The orgasm
> itself has somewhat lost its luster though.
jhhtexas@ieee.org - 09 Nov 2005 18:18 GMT
I'm glad to find at least one other person reporting my symptom
(problem). It's an annoyance, not a show-stopper.
I. P. Freely - 09 Nov 2005 18:50 GMT
> Same experience here with pain with orgasm (when I can get one).  I just
> figured it was the "dry pumping".

No. Mine are great fun, and some here rate their post-RP orgasms superior to
the old fashioned kind. They certainly shouldn't hurt after a few weeks of
healing.

I.P.
Bob Anthony - 09 Nov 2005 22:18 GMT
Pain here too during what is supposed to be an orgasm. Had RP in
December 2004 at age 53. Never had any problems during sex before so
this is really taking a lot of getting used to. E-D doc said that he has
heard about pain during sex after an RP quite a few times and it is
somewhat common. I was scheduled for a penile doppler test 10/25, but
Hurricane Wilma blew that idea away! (Pun intended). I will reschedule.
I almost feel like why bother if sex is going to hurt.
Dan Reynolds - 10 Nov 2005 00:57 GMT
I'll trade.
It's been since May 2003 since my RRP - nerve sparring - and I haven't
had an erection, and the drugs I've been taking (Zoladex and Casodex,
with a side of Paxil) have made me with zero libido.

DanR
Currently PSA 0.003

> It has been 17 months since my RRP and I now have normal sexual
> function with the help of Levitra including erections sufficient for
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> 30 seconds after the orgasm so it is still worth doing. The orgasm
> itself has somewhat lost its luster though.
Netmask - 10 Nov 2005 02:43 GMT
It's been nearly 18 months since my RRP and no sign of an erection but my
orgasms are better than before - more like when I was 18 and not 68 and
recovery for another is much faster! I don't know where my surgeon
re-attached the nerves but he hit the jack pot of G spot in my case!

I guess you can only give it time - I remember my first orgasm post
operation was a bit sore in the groin area but it went away.

Cheers

> It has been 17 months since my RRP and I now have normal sexual
> function with the help of Levitra including erections sufficient for
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> 30 seconds after the orgasm so it is still worth doing. The orgasm
> itself has somewhat lost its luster though.
Hermes - 19 Nov 2005 15:07 GMT
.............. One thing that bothers me, however, is my dry orgasm.

Don't let it bother you, way the alternative.
I take what I can get after my RRP.
Sometimes it's great sometimes it fizzles, sometimes it just stops in
the middle of it.
I find that my mind plays a large role here, with the orgasm I often
dripple a little urin (next to sneezing the only time that happens) and
I am somewhat selfconscious about it and tend concentrate more on
preventing that then the orgasm itself.

I wonder what would happen if I sneeze during an orgasm, whhooa.
hermes
I. P. Freely - 19 Nov 2005 17:02 GMT
> with the orgasm I often
> dripple a little urin (next to sneezing the only time that happens) and
> I am somewhat selfconscious about it and tend concentrate more on
> preventing that then the orgasm itself.

Some might say a forceful squirt of urine would add to the pleasure.

I.P.
Reuben Rothstein - 20 Nov 2005 05:54 GMT
It will eventually stop and you will be complete dry

>> with the orgasm I often
>> dripple a little urin (next to sneezing the only time that happens) and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>I.P.
 
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