Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / October 2005
PSA up
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Steve Kramer - 24 Oct 2005 22:29 GMT On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test and Lupron shot. It came back 0.08. By 0.01 of a nanogram, it is the highest I've had since starting Lupron 2¼ years ago.
I was first scheduled for this test and shot one month ago, but the doctor's office postponed it because the doc was going out of town. My doc was highly ticked when he found out that his staff had postponed me by a month. He also affirmed what someone here said last week. Maybe a week later or a week earlier -- never a month!
Obviously, my considerations of IADT are rendered moot. I did ask, as I promised I would, about switching to another ADT to stave off rafract... what is it? Refraction? Regardless, I asked and he said that a block is a block and it doesn't matter. It's best to stay what I'm on because I am used to the SEs.
However, Heather, he did correct himself and said that actually it is a partial block. The adrenal gland is still producing very little testosterone (which we all knew). "We need some testosterone to live off of. If I gave you a complete block, you probably wouldn't be able to climb up a stairway."
So, having completed my homework assignment, I will back out and listen for words of encouragement. All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from five months ago.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 .08 non Illegitimi carborundum
Steve U - 24 Oct 2005 22:51 GMT Steve Kramer, I hope your latest result turns out to be a random fluctiation, and not a trend. Those ultra-sensitive tests are a two edged sword. You get more detailed information about the >0.1 range, but then what do you do with it? Your situation may be in the future for more of us. If it is my destiny, I hope I cope as well as you have. SteveU
James A. Honeychuck - 24 Oct 2005 23:00 GMT Steve,
Are you sure all the tests were by the same lab using the same procedures? These are infinitesimally small quantities, and may not be comparable.
jimhoney
> On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer > battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > words of encouragement. All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from five months > ago. Steve Kramer - 24 Oct 2005 23:29 GMT Same lab. Same procedures. Been using the same one for the whole 5 years. They switched to ultra testing maybe 2½ years ago.... right before my Lupron shots started.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 .08 non Illegitimi carborundum
> Steve, > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > words of encouragement. All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from five months > > ago. Lorelei - 24 Oct 2005 23:24 GMT > On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer > battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > months > ago. Steve,
the adrenal blocker is called Casodex. Curt took that 50 mg daily by pill. He was still strong and vibrant and muscular. He was still "functional" even while on Casodex.
that's what I know about that. best wishes to you. Lori
John Loomis - 25 Oct 2005 00:05 GMT For Crying out Loud.
Hello Steve, I am also hoping for a simple lab reading error,and or such. Lorelei seemed to think Casodex was another follow-up step. I wish I had some answers. I can only share the grief....the worry, and such. I know that testosterone is important for men and women. Mostly men need it for musscle tone, and such. Women use it for sexual drive..... A complete block can be very hard on a man.
I have only words of keep trying, and see what is up. We, are all in the same boat..... My best Steve. John Loomis Lupron 1999(3 month horse shot) Scheduled for radiation(external beam)Felt that was not right...... Got RP Nov 1999. Test have been 0.01 or less......Last test Aug 05. We will see......... Good wishes Steve, and let me know how it goes.....
> On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer > battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > months > ago. Alan Meyer - 25 Oct 2005 00:26 GMT > ... > So, having completed my homework assignment, I will back out and listen for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 > PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 .08 I know that you can't help but be alarmed by this. Any of us would be. It is possible however that the slight rise has something to do with the one month delay in getting the injection. If so, the numbers are not significant. They merely indicate a gap in the treatment schedule. The next test will tell more. It is possible that the numbers could decrease again, or at least hold steady.
I'm also reluctant to put much significance into the ratio of .05:.08. We are, as Jim Honeychuck said, talking about infinitesimal increases in spite of the apparent size of the ratio.
In the worst case you're probably still years from metastasis and years more from symptoms and, in the best case, many years.
I don't know when your next PSA test is scheduled. I presume it's 4 months from now. If the PSA goes up again, then maybe in addition to discussing this with your doctor you should also consider getting a second opinion from another medical oncologist specializing in hormone therapy - if you can find one. There may be people in this newsgroup who can give you some recommendations.
The new clinical trials of phenoxodiol and some of the cancer vaccines should be underway soon. When and if you do have indications of PSA failure. You might pursue those.
Finally, I want to pass on some advice to you from a guy whom I highly respect:
> non Illegitimi carborundum Alan
Steve Kramer - 25 Oct 2005 02:05 GMT > Finally, I want to pass on some advice to you from a guy whom I highly > respect: > > > non Illegitimi carborundum You got me good on that one! I was scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, expecting a Biblical reference or something, then non Illegitimi carborundum!!!!
Thanks. Big smile here.
Steve Jordan - 25 Oct 2005 00:34 GMT > On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer > battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test > and Lupron shot. It came back 0.08. By 0.01 of a nanogram, it is the > highest I've had since starting Lupron 2¼ years ago. What's the record over the past couple of years? It's the velocity and doubling time that count, not the snapshot.
I recommend that Steve initiate a course of ultra-sensitive PSA tests on a *monthly* schedule. I also recommend that he not permit tiny fluctuations in test results to disturb him.
Would that I could follow my own advice. Had a 0.01 rise from <0.01 to 0.02 recently. Worried me to distraction, even though I knew that, standing alone, it was meaningless. Cried when my most recent result came back 0.01,where it should be.
I disremember exactly what Steve's ADT regimen is. ADT1, 2, or 3? I'm doing well on ADT1, but understand that that's unusual. Maybe a total androgen blockade is the way to go. AIUI, plenty of men get along quite well and are able to climb flights of stairs with little or no difficulty, regardless of the dire warnings of medics. Check the PCRI website at http://prostate-cancer.org/index.html or _A Primer on Prostate Cancer_by you know who. Or is it whom?
What's wanted is info on ADS (Androgen Deprivation Syndrome).
I think that Steve is far from finished with his dance with the bear.
Regards,
Steve J
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." --Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
> I was first scheduled for this test and shot one month ago, but the doctor's > office postponed it because the doc was going out of town. My doc was [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > words of encouragement. All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from five months > ago. Steve Kramer - 25 Oct 2005 02:11 GMT Doubling time is difficulte to assess over the continuum. Dates are as follows:
PSA 07/18/03 0.32 Lupron Begin 07/21/03 PSA 10/09/03 0.07 Lupron Injection 08/26/03 Lupron Injection 12/30/03 PSA 04/26/04 0.05 Lupron Injection 04/28/04 PSA 09/21/04 0.06 Lupron Injection 09/23/04 Lupron Injection 01/24/05 PSA 02/03/05 0.05 Lupron Injection 05/01/05 PSA 10/17/05 0.08 Lupron Injection 10/24/05
I charted the PSA. It looks like if I had had the PSA test one month ago, a "W" would have been formed but with a shallow center point.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 .08 non Illegitimi carborundum
> > On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer > > battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > words of encouragement. All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from five months > > ago. dale.j. - 25 Oct 2005 00:56 GMT > On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer > battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > words of encouragement. All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from five months > ago. Those numbers are so small that could it be just normal variation in testing? I see it started with .07, then went to .05 and back up to .06 and so on. The next one should be back down a bit. It must be a little nerve wrecking though. Mine's coming up in a month. My fingers are crossed for both of us.
Dale J.
 Signature Email: dalej2@mac.com
Heather - 25 Oct 2005 06:13 GMT Hi Puss.....
I am so sorry to hear this.....and I will send a private email. We were out at the doctor's today ourselves and I am just getting on here now.
>>> He also affirmed what someone here said last week. Maybe a week later >>> or a week earlier -- never a month!<<< Could have been me, or someone answering me. Ron's rad onc said 90 days....never early. A week late is OK. But to stick to the 3 month interval. How come yours are 4 months??
>>> However, Heather, he did correct himself and said that actually it is a > partial block. The adrenal gland is still producing very little > testosterone (which we all knew). "We need some testosterone to live off > of. If I gave you a complete block, you probably wouldn't be able to > climb up a stairway."<<< Thank you, my dear......I do think you have given me a lead there. I assumed you were on Casodex like Ron is. (Zoladex, Casodex and Megace). But he is having an awful time walking and climbing stairs.
>>> So, having completed my homework assignment, I will back out and listen >>> for words of encouragement. All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from >>> five months ago.<<< Steve....you are seeing *60%*.....I am seeing a mere 0.03. Please try to look at it that way. Remember how Ron's soared 3 full points in 10 days?? That is when you worry!!
And a question here.....according to your tagline, the last PSA was January 2005..did you not have one in between? Perhaps it is a mere 0.01 rise from 4 months ago. Or it is just a fluctuation.
Lots of hugs and you know I will be in your corner, as you were for me!!
Heather
> Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 > PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 .08 > non Illegitimi carborundum Steve Kramer - 25 Oct 2005 22:57 GMT > Hi Puss..... > > I am so sorry to hear this.....and I will send a private email. It's worse than you think. Under this damned capitalistic system of ours, I had to pay $15.00!!!
> And a question here.....according to your tagline, the last PSA was January > 2005..did you not have one in between? Corrected.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 .08 non Illegitimi carborundum
Heather - 26 Oct 2005 02:54 GMT >> Hi Puss..... >> >> I am so sorry to hear this.....and I will send a private email. > > It's worse than you think. Under this damned capitalistic system of ours, > I had to pay $15.00!!! For what....the PSA test? Consider yourself lucky. Up here in the land of socialism, PSA tests are not covered by the healthcare system....even with cancer....so Ron pays $27 Cdn. He could get free ones at the hospital, but it is more convenient to nip around the corner to the lab.
>> And a question here.....according to your tagline, the last PSA was > January 2005..did you not have one in between? > > Corrected. Good....have to keep you on your toes!! And now that slight rise doesn't seem so ominous. Yours seem to yo-yo a bit.
Now.....another question. I have never heard of hormone shots being given every FOUR months......they are always 1 or 3. How come? Just curious.
XX Heather
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05
> PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 .08 > non Illegitimi carborundum Lorelei - 26 Oct 2005 05:38 GMT >(((snip))) Now.....another question. I have never heard of hormone shots being given
> every FOUR months......they are always 1 or 3. How come? Just curious. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 .08 >> non Illegitimi carborundum Curt's shots are at 4 month intervals, it is a larger dose. it's all time release. Lori
c palmer - 26 Oct 2005 09:18 GMT From: curtandlori@earthlink.net (Lorelei) "Heather" <figgs@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
Now.....another question. I have never heard of hormone shots being given every FOUR months......they are always 1 or 3. How come? Just curious. XX Heather
Curt's shots are at 4 month intervals, it is a larger dose. it's all time release. Lori =========== lupron is made by TAP industries.
the dosages are as follows:
2 month - 7.5 3 month - 15 4 month - 22.5
they went to giving the 4 month shots in 1998.
~ curtis
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Heather - 26 Oct 2005 18:23 GMT From: curtandlori@earthlink.net (Lorelei) "Heather" <figgs@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
Now.....another question. I have never heard of hormone shots being given every FOUR months......they are always 1 or 3. How come? Just curious. XX Heather
Curt's shots are at 4 month intervals, it is a larger dose. it's all time release. Lori =========== lupron is made by TAP industries.
the dosages are as follows:
2 month - 7.5 3 month - 15 4 month - 22.5
they went to giving the 4 month shots in 1998.
Thanks.....Curtis & Lorelei.....I was not aware of that. Ron had one shot of Suprefact (not available in the US) and since then it has been Zoladex. All at 3 month intervals. So I assumed that this was the norm.
I will check with our doctor on this. I know each *brand* contains the same chemicals, but perhaps Ron's side effects might be lessened by Lupron or another one.
Cheers....Heather
c palmer - 26 Oct 2005 19:29 GMT i was off on the amounts. the 4 month is 30 mg instead of the 22.5.......
~ curtis
=========
Lupron Depot is indicated for the palliative treatment of advanced prostate cancer, for management of endometriosis, in combination with iron for the preoperative treatment of anemia caused by uterine fibroids, and for the treatment of children with central precocious puberty.
Lupron Depot® - 4 Month 30 mg, Lupron Depot® - 3 Month 22.5 mg, and Lupron Depot® 7.5 mg are indicated for the palliative treatment of advanced prostate cancer. These dosages are not approved for use in women. The most common side effect associated with Lupron Depot is hot flashes. Like other treatment options, LH-RH agonists may cause impotence. Symptoms may worsen over the first few weeks of treatment. Periodic monitoring of PSA and serum testosterone levels is recommended. Lupron Depot® - 4 Month 30 mg (leuprolide acetate for depot suspension)
Lupron Depot® - 3 Month 22.5 mg (leuprolide acetate for depot suspension)
Lupron Depot® 7.5 mg (leuprolide acetate for depot suspension)
Gynecology
Lupron Depot® - 3 Month 11.25 mg and Lupron Depot® 3.75 mg are indicated for the management of endometriosis and in combination with iron for the preoperative treatment of anemia caused by uterine fibroids. Side effects associated with Lupron Depot are generally those related to hypoestrogenism, including vasomotor flushes, headaches, and vaginal dryness. After 6 months of therapy with Lupron Depot 3.75 mg, vertebral bone density decreased by an average of 3.2%, compared with pretreatment value.
Lupron Depot® - 3 Month 11.25 mg (leuprolide acetate for depot suspension)
Lupron Depot® 3.75 mg (leuprolide acetate for depot suspension)
Pediatric
Lupron Depot-PED® 7.5 mg, 11.25 mg, and 15 mg are indicated for the treatment of children with central precocious puberty. In clinical studies, the most frequently reported adverse event related to therapy with Lupron Depot-PED was an injection site reaction seen in 5% of children in combined studies. The recommended starting dose of Lupron-PED is 0.3 mg/kg/4 weeks (minimum 7.5 mg). Inadequate dosing may result in poor control of the pubertal process.
Lupron Depot-PED® (leuprolide acetate for depot suspension)
7.5 mg, 11.25 mg and 15 mg
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
c palmer - 26 Oct 2005 19:38 GMT SUPREFACT® i (Injectable) SCHEDULING STATUS: S4
PROPRIETARY NAME (and dosage form): SUPREFACT® i (Injectable)
COMPOSITION: Each 1 mL of the aqueous solution contains 1,05 mg buserelin acetate corresponding to 1 mg buserelin base as the active ingredient. As preservative: Benzyl alcohol 1,0% m/m.
PHARMACOLOGICAL
CLASSIFICATION: Category A: 21.10: Trophic hormones.
PHARMACOLOGICAL ACTION: Suprefact contains buserelin, an analogue of the natural gonadorelin (GnRH, HLH-RH) with a long duration of action. Gonadorelin stimulates both synthesis and release of the gonadotropins LH and FSH. The latter then stimulates steroid biosynthesis in the gonads. Studies of the behaviour of the receptor sites, both of gonadal LH-receptors and pituitary GnRH-receptors have shown that long-term stimulation leads at first to an increase but then to a reduction in the stimulability of both gonadotropins and sexual steroid levels. The dose-level and time interval between individual doses of GnRH are determinant factors for the receptor loss as indicated in animal studies.
The suppressive effect is fully reversible. Genuine gonadorelin is bound to receptors for only a short time. It is degraded within 30 to 60 minutes by arylamidase and its activity thus abolished. For therapeutic use the highly-potent, therefore long-active analogue buserelin, has been developed. Enzymic degradation is inhibited by substitution of the amino acid, glycine, at two sites in the molecule. Buserelin is thus bound to the receptors for a longer time and is effective for more than three hours. Its elimination half-life from serum does not differ significantly from that of gonadorelin. Buserelin produces much greater receptor-loss than gonadorelin. At adequate dose-levels, administration three times daily is sufficient. Suprefact is capable of inhibiting both gonadotropin release, from the pituitary and gonadal steroid-biosynthesis and is thus indicated for the treatment of hormone-dependent tumours such as prostatic carcinoma. Of particular importance is the complete reversibility of the suppressive effect, thus permitting temporal control of the pituitary-gonad-axis.
INDICATIONS:
Prostatic carcinoma in which suppression of testosterone production is indicated.
CONTRA-INDICATIONS:
Suprefact should not be used if the tumour is found to be insensitive to the medicine, after surgical removal of the testes, or after treatment with oestrogen therapy. Should not be used in patients who are hypersensitive to benzyl alcohol or to buserelin acetate.
DOSAGE AND DIRECTIONS FOR USE:
Introduction of suppressive therapy: The patient should be admitted to hospital and 0,5 mL Suprefact i (for injection) injected sub-cutaneously 3 times a day at 8 hourly intervals, for a period of 7 days. This dose is equivalent to 1,5 mg buserelin daily and is independent of body mass. Continuation of suppressive therapy: On the 8th day of treatment, the regimen of treatment is changed from the previously given subcutaneous form to the Suprefact ns Nasal Spray and the duration of treatment is determined by the doctor.
SIDE-EFFECTS AND SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS:
At the start of treatment with Suprefact there is a temporary rise in sex hormones, which usually remains within the normal range. In a few patients this rise may be associated with an increase in the symptoms of the disease, such as bone pain, impaired micturition, muscular weakness in the legs as manifestation of temporary activation of the tumour. These symptoms usually subside spontaneously without necessitating withdrawal of Suprefact. According to present information, however, they can be avoided by additionally prescribing an antiandrogen (e.g. cyproterone acetate, flutamide) at the start of treatment. It is therefore advisable in patients in whom temporary increase in size of tumour may lead to urinal tract obstruction, paresis due to increased pressure on the spinal cord, or increased intracranial pressure (in rare cases with brain metastases) to administer an antiandrogen about five days before the start of Suprefact treatment and continue it for three to four weeks in conjunction with the Suprefact therapy until the sex hormones have fallen to a satisfactory level. Owing to the suppression of sex hormone synthesis, hot flushes are to be expected in the majority of cases and loss of potency and libido occur in all cases. Also as a result of the suppression of sex hormones, breast enlargement and depressive moods may rarely occur. Patients with a known history of depression should be monitored carefully. Infrequently, hypersensitivity reactions to buserelin or benzyl alcohol may occur, such as reddening of the skin and urticaria-like skin changes and exanthema. Allergic (anaphylactic) shock is rare, but acutely life-threatening if it does occur (for recommended measures, see below). Other side effects reported include thrombosis with pulmonary embolism, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, dizziness and transient headache. Subcutaneous treatment with Suprefact i injection is regarded as a pre-treatment, which is replaced on the 8th day by an intranasal spray. No serum testosterone tests are carried out during the first week of treatment. Instructions for the tests recommended during long-term treatment are given in the package insert of the special dosage form, Suprefact ns Nasal Spray. Monitoring of the clinical effect of Suprefact i injection is carried out by the methods generally used in prostatic carcinoma. As the testosterone level in the serum does not fall immediately after the start of treatment, the onset of the clinical effect may also be delayed. There are no known interactions between buserelin and any other concomitant medication. At the start of the treatment with Suprefact, a transient activation of the tumour may occur. In the rare instances, symptoms of neurological disorders (e.g. muscular weakness in the legs) may develop, which in isolated cases are serious. Emergency measures to be taken in the event of anaphylactic shock: The following emergency measures are generally recommended: At the first signs (sweating, nausea, cyanosis) interrupt the injection immediately and perform venous cannulation. In addition to the usual emergency measures, ensure that the patient is kept flat with the legs raised and airways patent. Emergency drug therapy: Immediately epinephrine (adrenaline) i.v.: Dilute 1 mL of commercially available epinephrine solution 1:1°000 to 10 mL. In the first instance slowly inject 1 mL of this dilution (equivalent to 0,1 mg epinephrine) while monitoring pulse and blood pressure (watch for disturbances of cardiac rhythm). The administration of epinephrine may be repeated. Then glucocorticoids i.v., e.g. 250 -1000 mg methylprednisolone. The glucocorticoid administration may be repeated. Subsequently volume substitution i.v., e.g. plasma expanders, human albumin, balanced electrolyte solution. Other therapeutic measures: Artificial respiration, oxygen inhalation, antihistaminics.
KNOWN SYMPTOMS OF OVERDOSAGE AND PARTICULARS OF ITS TREATMENT:
There are no known symptoms of over-dosage.
IDENTIFICATION:
A clear, colourless to pale yellowish solution in a multidose vial of 5,5 mL
PRESENTATION:
Packs of two 5,5 mL multidose vials.
STORAGE INSTRUCTIONS:
Store between 2°C and 25°C. Do not freeze. Keep out of reach of children. The date of first withdrawal should be noted down on the label. Once opened, the vials should be stored at 25°C and for not longer than 2 weeks.
REGISTRATION NUMBER:
V/21.10/169
NAME AND BUSINESS ADDRESS OF THE APPLICANT:
NORISTAN LIMITED 326 Marks Street, Waltloo, Pretoria
DATE OF PUBLICATION OF THIS PACKAGE INSERT:
January 1988. HOECHST Pharmaceuticals, Division of NORISTAN LIMITED WALTLOO, PRETORIA PHSX - G43 - 0037
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Stavros Moschos - 26 Oct 2005 17:12 GMT My hormone shots were every four months.
>>> Hi Puss..... >>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 .08 >> non Illegitimi carborundum Steve Kramer - 27 Oct 2005 02:35 GMT > > It's worse than you think. Under this damned capitalistic system of ours, > > I had to pay $15.00!!! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > cancer....so Ron pays $27 Cdn. He could get free ones at the hospital, but > it is more convenient to nip around the corner to the lab. No. For the lab test, $1700 Lupron shot, DRE and office visit.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 .08 non Illegitimi carborundum
c palmer - 27 Oct 2005 04:49 GMT No. For the lab test, $1700 Lupron shot, DRE and office visit. ========== boy steve - the prices are dropping. my dad was paying 1600 dollars for a 3 month shot and then when they came out with the 4 month shot, the price jumped to 2200 dollars. and he didn't even get the DRE. in fact, he didn't even get to see the doctor. nurse gave the shot. we thought for that kind of money, the doctor should have at least said "hi"
~ curtis
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Heather - 27 Oct 2005 05:45 GMT >> For what....the PSA test? Consider yourself lucky. Up here in the land > of socialism, PSA tests are not covered by the healthcare system....even > with cancer....so Ron pays $27 Cdn. He could get free ones at the > hospital, but it is more convenient to nip around the corner to the lab. > > No. For the lab test, $1700 Lupron shot, DRE and office visit. Stop doing that, lol. You know I get in trouble if I say anything about our excellent healthcare system up here, so I won't......grin. And Mr. Jordan would jump all over me with than TANSTAFFL stuff...
OTOH.....Zoladex is $1200+ for 3 month shot (we pay $4.00)....so even with the exchange rate, I guess it would be equal.
I think your middle initials are "SD". You do love to get me in trouble, lol.
Hey.....just remembered. There is an excellent article on Pca research and a new technique they are working on today. I shall dig it up. They are already in a trial.
Cheers....Heather
Steve Jordan - 27 Oct 2005 17:59 GMT On October 26, Heather responded to Steve Kramer, in pertinent part:
> Stop doing that, lol. You know I get in trouble if I say anything about our > excellent healthcare system up here, so I won't......grin. And Mr. Jordan > would jump all over me with than TANSTAFFL stuff... TANSTAAFL is an uncomfortable truth for many, especially socialists. They just hate it, hate it.
In case anyone wants to know what it means (no one has asked, but I cannot believe that *everyone* in this gang knows) it's "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch."
As for the excellence of the system, that's debatable and I'm awaiting the appropriate occasion to do so. Especially interesting is a certain Canadian Supreme Court decision on the subject.
Regards,
Steve J
Dave P - 25 Oct 2005 13:53 GMT Steve,
Your in a holding pattern. Your still <1
Your going to win down the road and beat this thing. So continue to live and inspire others.
Keep a positive outlook. Duke and John Hopkins are now encouraging those with a low psa on hormones to get the vaccine therapy to boost the immune system. A few Doctors and researchers believe it can provide a knockout punch to the PCa. I know there are other therapies that are showing signs of progress.
For many of us its about holding on and having faith for the next big breakthrough - and its coming.
Keep on fighting and never quit.
My prayers are with you and here's looking at a lower psa on the next test.
Dave P
> On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer > battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > months > ago. dan - 25 Oct 2005 16:23 GMT > Steve, > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Dave P Dave P
Can you provide a little info re: the vaccine therapy for those of us who don't know as much as we should?
Thanks,
Dan
 Signature PSA = 2.2 , 03/05/2003 PSA = 7.92, 09/30/2004, @ 54 Biopsy, 11/10/2004, G9(5+4) (multiple cores) (6 of 8 cores positive), T1C EBRT, 01-03/2005 @55 Casodex (daily), begin. 11/16/2004 Zoladex, 12/23/2004, 03/10/2005, 06/14/2005, 09/14/2005 PSA, 0.1, <0.1, <0.1
Dave P - 25 Oct 2005 18:42 GMT Duke University, Johns Hopkins, and others are researching vaccine use in combination with hormone therapy. They have had some positive results. This is one of a few therapies researchers are trying to perfect. I have provided a few links below. As I stated in the past, there is so much research being done today that it is impossible for anyone to follow all the research studies. My son is a senior this year and applying to colleges. I have visited a few Bio Tech Universities and have talked to a researchers and all have stated that medicine is growing expotentially and companies are getting closer to stopping PCa at the cellular level. Everyone one I talked with believes it is right around the corner. One stated 2-5 years. I hope he was right.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050309101235.htm
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2005/03_15a_05.html
>> Steve, >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Dan Steve Kramer - 25 Oct 2005 23:01 GMT > Steve,
> Keep a positive outlook. Duke and John Hopkins are now encouraging those > with a low psa on hormones to get the vaccine therapy to boost the immune > system. A few Doctors and researchers believe it can provide a knockout > punch to the PCa. I know there are other therapies that are showing signs of > progress. Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. My next question of my doc -- in February. Vaccine makes sense at < 0.1.
> Keep on fighting and never quit. As I have mentioned before, having watched the bastard kill my father, it was inconceivable that I would have fought as hard. But, new meds make it a tad easier at the end and I think I will assert that I will keep up the good fight.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 .08 non Illegitimi carborundum
Dennis D - 26 Oct 2005 03:47 GMT Steve Kramer,
I wonder what the lab's observed standard deviation is for it's PSA test. You quote values to two decimal places (not 3). Hence, a standard deviation of .02 is not unreasonable. A change of .03 could well be a statistical fluctuation.
Dennis
>On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer >battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >words of encouragement. All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from five months >ago. Stavros Moschos - 26 Oct 2005 17:19 GMT Steve,
I am trying to absorb all of these messages before rep[lying, but I can't wait that long. I agree with those who wrote that what is significant is the doubling rate over a period of time. Surges, especially over short periods are not significant, so stay steady. My own next PSA is in a couple of days (at three months rather than six, at my request because I am curious), and I am taking this advice: don't trouble trouble till trouble troubles you.
But why am I saying this to you? You are a model of perfect forbearance.
Stavros
> On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer > battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > months > ago. Steve Kramer - 27 Oct 2005 02:42 GMT Okay, Fr. Thanks.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 .08 non Illegitimi carborundum
> Steve, > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > months > > ago.
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