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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / October 2005

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PSA up

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Steve Kramer - 24 Oct 2005 22:29 GMT
On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer
battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test
and Lupron shot.  It came back 0.08.  By 0.01 of a nanogram, it is the
highest I've had since starting Lupron 2¼ years ago.

I was first scheduled for this test and shot one month ago, but the doctor's
office postponed it because the doc was going out of town.  My doc was
highly ticked when he found out that his staff had postponed me by a month.
He also affirmed what someone here said last week.  Maybe a week later or a
week earlier -- never a month!

Obviously, my considerations of IADT are rendered moot.  I did ask, as I
promised I would, about switching to another ADT to stave off rafract...
what is it?  Refraction?  Regardless, I asked and he said that a block is a
block and it doesn't matter.  It's best to stay what I'm on because I am
used to the SEs.

However, Heather, he did correct himself and said that actually it is a
partial block.  The adrenal gland is still producing very little
testosterone (which we all knew).  "We need some testosterone to live off
of.  If I gave you a complete block, you probably wouldn't be able to climb
up a stairway."

So, having completed my homework assignment, I will back out and listen for
words of encouragement.  All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from five months
ago.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
non Illegitimi carborundum

Steve U - 24 Oct 2005 22:51 GMT
Steve Kramer,
I hope your latest result turns out to be a random fluctiation, and not
a trend. Those ultra-sensitive tests are a two edged sword. You get
more detailed information about the >0.1 range, but then what do you do
with it? Your situation may be in the future for more of us. If it is
my destiny, I hope I cope as well as you have.
SteveU
James A. Honeychuck - 24 Oct 2005 23:00 GMT
Steve,

Are you sure all the tests were by the same lab using the same
procedures?  These are infinitesimally small quantities, and may not be
comparable.

jimhoney

> On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer
> battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> words of encouragement.  All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from five months
> ago.
Steve Kramer - 24 Oct 2005 23:29 GMT
Same lab.  Same procedures.  Been using the same one for the whole 5 years.
They switched to ultra testing maybe 2½ years ago.... right before my Lupron
shots started.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
non Illegitimi carborundum

> Steve,
>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> > words of encouragement.  All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from five months
> > ago.
Lorelei - 24 Oct 2005 23:24 GMT
> On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer
> battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> months
> ago.

Steve,

the adrenal blocker is called Casodex. Curt took that 50 mg daily by pill.
He was still strong and vibrant and muscular. He was still "functional" even
while on Casodex.

that's what I know about that.
best wishes to you.
Lori
John Loomis - 25 Oct 2005 00:05 GMT
For Crying out Loud.

Hello Steve,  I am also hoping for a simple lab reading error,and or such.
Lorelei seemed to think Casodex was another follow-up step.
I wish I had some answers.
I can only share the grief....the worry, and such.
I know that testosterone is important for men and women.
Mostly men need it for musscle tone, and such.
Women use it for sexual drive.....
A complete block can be very hard on a man.

I have only words of keep trying, and see what is up.
We, are all in the same boat.....
My best Steve.
John Loomis  Lupron 1999(3 month horse shot) Scheduled for
radiation(external beam)Felt that was not right......
Got RP Nov 1999.
Test have been 0.01 or less......Last test Aug 05.
We will see.........
Good wishes Steve, and let me know how it goes.....

> On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer
> battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> months
> ago.
Alan Meyer - 25 Oct 2005 00:26 GMT
> ...
> So, having completed my homework assignment, I will back out and listen for
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
> PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08

I know that you can't help but be alarmed by this.  Any of us would be.
It is possible however that the slight rise has something to do with
the one month delay in getting the injection.  If so, the numbers are
not significant.  They merely indicate a gap in the treatment schedule.
The next test will tell more.  It is possible that the numbers could
decrease again, or at least hold steady.

I'm also reluctant to put much significance into the ratio of .05:.08.
We are, as Jim Honeychuck said, talking about infinitesimal increases
in spite of the apparent size of the ratio.

In the worst case you're probably still years from metastasis and years
more from symptoms and, in the best case, many years.

I don't know when your next PSA test is scheduled.  I presume it's
4 months from now.  If the PSA goes up again, then maybe in addition
to discussing this with your doctor you should also consider getting a
second opinion from another medical oncologist specializing in
hormone therapy - if you can find one.  There may be people in this
newsgroup who can give you some recommendations.

The new clinical trials of phenoxodiol and some of the cancer
vaccines should be underway soon.  When and if you do have
indications of PSA failure.  You might pursue those.

Finally, I want to pass on some advice to you from a guy whom I highly
respect:

> non Illegitimi carborundum

   Alan
Steve Kramer - 25 Oct 2005 02:05 GMT
> Finally, I want to pass on some advice to you from a guy whom I highly
> respect:
>
> > non Illegitimi carborundum

You got me good on that one!  I was scrolling, scrolling, scrolling,
expecting a Biblical reference or something, then non Illegitimi
carborundum!!!!

Thanks.  Big smile here.
Steve Jordan - 25 Oct 2005 00:34 GMT
> On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer
> battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test
> and Lupron shot.  It came back 0.08.  By 0.01 of a nanogram, it is the
> highest I've had since starting Lupron 2¼ years ago.

What's the record over the past couple of years? It's the velocity and
doubling time that count, not the snapshot.

I recommend that Steve initiate a course of ultra-sensitive PSA tests on a
*monthly* schedule. I also recommend that he not permit tiny fluctuations
in test results to disturb him.

Would that I could follow my own advice. Had a 0.01 rise from <0.01 to 0.02
recently. Worried me to distraction, even though I knew that, standing
alone, it was meaningless. Cried when my most recent result came back
0.01,where it should be.

I disremember exactly what Steve's ADT regimen is. ADT1, 2, or 3? I'm doing
well on ADT1, but understand that that's unusual. Maybe a total androgen
blockade is the way to go. AIUI, plenty of men get along quite well and are
able to climb flights of stairs with little or no difficulty, regardless of
the dire warnings of medics. Check the PCRI website at
http://prostate-cancer.org/index.html
or
_A Primer on Prostate Cancer_by you know who. Or is it whom?

What's wanted is info on ADS (Androgen Deprivation Syndrome).

I think that Steve is far from finished with his dance with the bear.

Regards,

Steve J

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a
hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory
gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor
yourself, you will succumb in every battle."
--Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"

> I was first scheduled for this test and shot one month ago, but the doctor's
> office postponed it because the doc was going out of town.  My doc was
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> words of encouragement.  All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from five months
> ago.
Steve Kramer - 25 Oct 2005 02:11 GMT
Doubling time is difficulte to assess over the continuum.  Dates are as
follows:

PSA 07/18/03 0.32
Lupron Begin 07/21/03
PSA 10/09/03 0.07
Lupron Injection 08/26/03
Lupron Injection 12/30/03
PSA 04/26/04 0.05
Lupron Injection 04/28/04
PSA 09/21/04 0.06
Lupron Injection 09/23/04
Lupron Injection 01/24/05
PSA 02/03/05 0.05
Lupron Injection 05/01/05
PSA 10/17/05 0.08
Lupron Injection 10/24/05

I charted the PSA.  It looks like if I had had the PSA test one month ago, a
"W" would have been formed but with a shallow center point.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
non Illegitimi carborundum

> > On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer
> > battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
> > words of encouragement.  All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from five months
> > ago.
dale.j. - 25 Oct 2005 00:56 GMT
> On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer
> battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> words of encouragement.  All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from five months
> ago.

Those numbers are so small that could it be just normal variation in
testing?  I see it started with .07, then went to .05 and back up to .06
and so on.  The next one should be back down a bit. It must be a little
nerve wrecking though.  Mine's coming up in a month.  My fingers are
crossed for both of us.

Dale J.

Signature

Email:  dalej2@mac.com

Heather - 25 Oct 2005 06:13 GMT
Hi Puss.....

I am so sorry to hear this.....and I will send a private email.  We were out
at the doctor's today ourselves and I am just getting on here now.

>>> He also affirmed what someone here said last week.  Maybe a week later
>>> or a week earlier -- never a month!<<<

Could have been me, or someone answering me.  Ron's rad onc said 90
days....never early.  A week late is OK.  But to stick to the 3 month
interval.  How come yours are 4 months??

>>> However, Heather, he did correct himself and said that actually it is a
> partial block.  The adrenal gland is still producing very little
> testosterone (which we all knew).  "We need some testosterone to live off
> of.  If I gave you a complete block, you probably wouldn't be able to
> climb up a stairway."<<<

Thank you, my dear......I do think you have given me a lead there.  I
assumed you were on Casodex like Ron is.  (Zoladex, Casodex and Megace).
But he is having an awful time walking and climbing stairs.

>>> So, having completed my homework assignment, I will back out and listen
>>> for words of encouragement.  All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from
>>> five months ago.<<<

Steve....you are seeing *60%*.....I am seeing a mere 0.03.  Please try to
look at it that way.  Remember how Ron's soared 3 full points in 10 days??
That is when you worry!!

And a question here.....according to your tagline, the last PSA was January
2005..did you not have one in between?  Perhaps it is a mere 0.01 rise from
4 months ago.  Or it is just a fluctuation.

Lots of hugs and you know I will be in your corner, as you were for me!!

Heather

> Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
> PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
> non Illegitimi carborundum
Steve Kramer - 25 Oct 2005 22:57 GMT
> Hi Puss.....
>
> I am so sorry to hear this.....and I will send a private email.

It's worse than you think.  Under this damned capitalistic system of ours, I
had to pay $15.00!!!

> And a question here.....according to your tagline, the last PSA was January
> 2005..did you not have one in between?

Corrected.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
non Illegitimi carborundum

Heather - 26 Oct 2005 02:54 GMT
>> Hi Puss.....
>>
>> I am so sorry to hear this.....and I will send a private email.
>
> It's worse than you think.  Under this damned capitalistic system of ours,
> I had to pay $15.00!!!

For what....the PSA test?  Consider yourself lucky.  Up here in the land of
socialism, PSA tests are not covered by the healthcare system....even with
cancer....so Ron pays $27 Cdn.  He could get free ones at the hospital, but
it is more convenient to nip around the corner to the lab.

>> And a question here.....according to your tagline, the last PSA was
> January 2005..did you not have one in between?
>
> Corrected.

Good....have to keep you on your toes!!  And now that slight rise doesn't
seem so ominous.  Yours seem to yo-yo a bit.

Now.....another question.  I have never heard of hormone shots being given
every FOUR months......they are always 1 or 3.  How come?  Just curious.

XX  Heather

Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05
> PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
> non Illegitimi carborundum
Lorelei - 26 Oct 2005 05:38 GMT
>(((snip)))
Now.....another question.  I have never heard of hormone shots being given
> every FOUR months......they are always 1 or 3.  How come?  Just curious.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
>> non Illegitimi carborundum

Curt's shots are at 4 month intervals, it is a larger dose. it's all time
release.
Lori
c palmer - 26 Oct 2005 09:18 GMT
From: curtandlori@earthlink.net (Lorelei)
"Heather" <figgs@nospam.invalid> wrote in message

  Now.....another question. I have never heard of hormone shots
being given
every FOUR months......they are always 1 or 3. How come? Just curious.
XX Heather

Curt's shots are at 4 month intervals, it is a larger dose. it's all
time release.
Lori
===========
lupron is made by TAP industries.

the dosages are as follows:

2 month - 7.5
3 month - 15
4 month - 22.5

they went to giving the 4 month shots in 1998.

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Heather - 26 Oct 2005 18:23 GMT
From: curtandlori@earthlink.net (Lorelei)
"Heather" <figgs@nospam.invalid> wrote in message

Now.....another question. I have never heard of hormone shots
being given
every FOUR months......they are always 1 or 3. How come? Just curious.
XX Heather

Curt's shots are at 4 month intervals, it is a larger dose. it's all
time release.
Lori
===========
lupron is made by TAP industries.

the dosages are as follows:

2 month - 7.5
3 month - 15
4 month - 22.5

they went to giving the 4 month shots in 1998.

Thanks.....Curtis & Lorelei.....I was not aware of that.  Ron had one shot
of Suprefact (not available in the US) and since then it has been Zoladex.
All at 3 month intervals.  So I assumed that this was the norm.

I will check with our doctor on this.  I know each *brand* contains the same
chemicals, but perhaps Ron's side effects might be lessened by Lupron or
another one.

Cheers....Heather
c palmer - 26 Oct 2005 19:29 GMT
i was off on the amounts.  the 4 month is 30 mg instead of the
22.5.......

~ curtis

=========

Lupron Depot is indicated for the palliative treatment of advanced
prostate cancer, for management of endometriosis, in combination with
iron for the preoperative treatment of anemia caused by uterine
fibroids, and for the treatment of children with central precocious
puberty.

Lupron Depot® - 4 Month 30 mg, Lupron Depot® - 3 Month 22.5 mg, and
Lupron Depot® 7.5 mg are indicated for the palliative treatment of
advanced prostate cancer. These dosages are not approved for use in
women. The most common side effect associated with Lupron Depot is hot
flashes. Like other treatment options, LH-RH agonists may cause
impotence. Symptoms may worsen over the first few weeks of treatment.
Periodic monitoring of PSA and serum testosterone levels is recommended.

Lupron Depot® - 4 Month 30 mg
(leuprolide acetate for depot suspension)

Lupron Depot® - 3 Month 22.5 mg
(leuprolide acetate for depot suspension)

Lupron Depot® 7.5 mg
(leuprolide acetate for depot suspension)

Gynecology

Lupron Depot® - 3 Month 11.25 mg and Lupron Depot® 3.75 mg are
indicated for the management of endometriosis and in combination with
iron for the preoperative treatment of anemia caused by uterine
fibroids. Side effects associated with Lupron Depot are generally those
related to hypoestrogenism, including vasomotor flushes, headaches, and
vaginal dryness. After 6 months of therapy with Lupron Depot 3.75 mg,
vertebral bone density decreased by an average of 3.2%, compared with
pretreatment value.

Lupron Depot® - 3 Month 11.25 mg
(leuprolide acetate for depot suspension)

Lupron Depot® 3.75 mg
(leuprolide acetate for depot suspension)

Pediatric

Lupron Depot-PED® 7.5 mg, 11.25 mg, and 15 mg are indicated for the
treatment of children with central precocious puberty. In clinical
studies, the most frequently reported adverse event related to therapy
with Lupron Depot-PED was an injection site reaction seen in 5% of
children in combined studies. The recommended starting dose of
Lupron-PED is 0.3 mg/kg/4 weeks (minimum 7.5 mg). Inadequate dosing may
result in poor control of the pubertal process.

Lupron Depot-PED®
(leuprolide acetate for depot suspension)

7.5 mg, 11.25 mg and 15 mg

 

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
c palmer - 26 Oct 2005 19:38 GMT
SUPREFACT® i (Injectable)
SCHEDULING STATUS:
S4

PROPRIETARY NAME
(and dosage form):
SUPREFACT® i (Injectable)

COMPOSITION:
Each 1 mL of the aqueous solution contains 1,05 mg buserelin acetate
corresponding to 1 mg buserelin base as the active ingredient.
As preservative: Benzyl alcohol 1,0% m/m.

PHARMACOLOGICAL

CLASSIFICATION:
Category A: 21.10: Trophic hormones.

PHARMACOLOGICAL ACTION:
Suprefact contains buserelin, an analogue of the natural gonadorelin
(GnRH, HLH-RH) with a long duration of action.
Gonadorelin stimulates both synthesis and release of the gonadotropins
LH and FSH. The latter then stimulates steroid biosynthesis in the
gonads. Studies of the behaviour of the receptor sites, both of gonadal
LH-receptors and pituitary GnRH-receptors have shown that long-term
stimulation leads at first to an increase but then to a reduction in the
stimulability of both gonadotropins and sexual steroid levels. The
dose-level and time interval between individual doses of GnRH are
determinant factors for the receptor loss as indicated in animal
studies.

The suppressive effect is fully reversible. Genuine gonadorelin is bound
to receptors for only a short time. It is degraded within 30 to 60
minutes by arylamidase and its activity thus abolished. For therapeutic
use the highly-potent, therefore long-active analogue buserelin, has
been developed. Enzymic degradation is inhibited by substitution of the
amino acid, glycine, at two sites in the molecule.
Buserelin is thus bound to the receptors for a longer time and is
effective for more than three hours.
Its elimination half-life from serum does not differ significantly from
that of gonadorelin.
Buserelin produces much greater receptor-loss than gonadorelin.
At adequate dose-levels, administration three times daily is sufficient.
Suprefact is capable of inhibiting both gonadotropin release, from the
pituitary and gonadal steroid-biosynthesis and is thus indicated for the
treatment of hormone-dependent tumours such as prostatic carcinoma. Of
particular importance is the complete reversibility of the suppressive
effect, thus permitting temporal control of the pituitary-gonad-axis.

INDICATIONS:

Prostatic carcinoma in which suppression of testosterone production is
indicated.

CONTRA-INDICATIONS:

Suprefact should not be used if the tumour is found to be insensitive to
the medicine, after surgical removal of the testes, or after treatment
with oestrogen therapy.
Should not be used in patients who are hypersensitive to benzyl alcohol
or to buserelin acetate.

DOSAGE AND DIRECTIONS FOR USE:

Introduction of suppressive therapy: The patient should be admitted to
hospital and 0,5 mL Suprefact i (for injection) injected
sub-cutaneously 3 times a day at 8 hourly intervals, for a period of
7 days. This dose is equivalent to 1,5 mg buserelin daily and is
independent of body mass.
Continuation of suppressive therapy: On the 8th day of treatment, the
regimen of treatment is changed from the previously given subcutaneous
form to the Suprefact ns Nasal Spray and the duration of treatment is
determined by the doctor.

SIDE-EFFECTS AND SPECIAL
PRECAUTIONS:

At the start of treatment with Suprefact there is a temporary rise in
sex hormones, which usually remains within the normal range. In a few
patients this rise may be associated with an increase in the symptoms of
the disease, such as bone pain, impaired micturition, muscular weakness
in the legs as manifestation of temporary activation of the tumour.
These symptoms usually subside spontaneously without necessitating
withdrawal of Suprefact.
According to present information, however, they can be avoided by
additionally prescribing an antiandrogen (e.g. cyproterone acetate,
flutamide) at the start of treatment. It is therefore advisable in
patients in whom temporary increase in size of tumour may lead to urinal
tract obstruction, paresis due to increased pressure on the spinal cord,
or increased intracranial pressure (in rare cases with brain metastases)
to administer an antiandrogen about five days before the start of
Suprefact treatment and continue it for three to four weeks in
conjunction with the Suprefact therapy until the sex hormones have
fallen to a satisfactory level.
Owing to the suppression of sex hormone synthesis, hot flushes are to be
expected in the majority of cases and loss of potency and libido occur
in all cases. Also as a result of the suppression of sex hormones,
breast enlargement and depressive moods may rarely occur. Patients with
a known history of depression should be monitored carefully.
Infrequently, hypersensitivity reactions to buserelin or benzyl alcohol
may occur, such as reddening of the skin and urticaria-like skin changes
and exanthema.
Allergic (anaphylactic) shock is rare, but acutely life-threatening if
it does occur (for recommended measures, see below).
Other side effects reported include thrombosis with pulmonary embolism,
nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, dizziness and transient headache.
Subcutaneous treatment with Suprefact i injection is regarded as a
pre-treatment, which is replaced on the 8th day by an intranasal spray.
No serum testosterone tests are carried out during the first week of
treatment. Instructions for the tests recommended during long-term
treatment are given in the package insert of the special dosage form,
Suprefact ns Nasal Spray.
Monitoring of the clinical effect of Suprefact i injection is carried
out by the methods generally used in prostatic carcinoma. As the
testosterone level in the serum does not fall immediately after the
start of treatment, the onset of the clinical effect may also be
delayed.
There are no known interactions between buserelin and any other
concomitant medication.
At the start of the treatment with Suprefact, a transient activation of
the tumour may occur. In the rare instances, symptoms of neurological
disorders (e.g. muscular weakness in the legs) may develop, which in
isolated cases are serious.
Emergency measures to be taken in the event of anaphylactic shock:
The following emergency measures are generally recommended: At the first
signs (sweating, nausea, cyanosis) interrupt the injection immediately
and perform venous cannulation.
In addition to the usual emergency measures, ensure that the patient is
kept flat with the legs raised and airways patent. Emergency drug
therapy:
Immediately epinephrine (adrenaline) i.v.: Dilute 1 mL of commercially
available epinephrine solution 1:1°000 to 10 mL. In the first
instance slowly inject 1 mL of this dilution (equivalent to 0,1 mg
epinephrine) while monitoring pulse and blood pressure (watch for
disturbances of cardiac rhythm). The administration of epinephrine may
be repeated. Then glucocorticoids i.v., e.g. 250 -1000 mg
methylprednisolone. The glucocorticoid administration may be repeated.
Subsequently volume substitution i.v., e.g. plasma expanders, human
albumin, balanced electrolyte solution.
Other therapeutic measures: Artificial respiration, oxygen inhalation,
antihistaminics.

KNOWN SYMPTOMS OF OVERDOSAGE AND PARTICULARS OF ITS TREATMENT:

There are no known symptoms of over-dosage.

IDENTIFICATION:

A clear, colourless to pale yellowish solution in a multidose vial of
5,5 mL

PRESENTATION:

Packs of two 5,5 mL multidose vials.

STORAGE INSTRUCTIONS:

Store between 2°C and 25°C.
Do not freeze.
Keep out of reach of children.
The date of first withdrawal should be noted down on the label. Once
opened, the vials should be stored at 25°C and for not longer than 2
weeks.

REGISTRATION NUMBER:

V/21.10/169

NAME AND BUSINESS ADDRESS OF THE APPLICANT:

NORISTAN LIMITED
326 Marks Street, Waltloo, Pretoria

DATE OF PUBLICATION OF THIS PACKAGE INSERT:

January 1988.
HOECHST Pharmaceuticals, Division of
NORISTAN LIMITED
WALTLOO, PRETORIA
PHSX - G43 - 0037

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Stavros Moschos - 26 Oct 2005 17:12 GMT
My hormone shots were every four months.

>>> Hi Puss.....
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>> PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
>> non Illegitimi carborundum
Steve Kramer - 27 Oct 2005 02:35 GMT
> > It's worse than you think.  Under this damned capitalistic system of ours,
> > I had to pay $15.00!!!
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> cancer....so Ron pays $27 Cdn.  He could get free ones at the hospital, but
> it is more convenient to nip around the corner to the lab.

No.  For the lab test, $1700 Lupron shot, DRE and office visit.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
non Illegitimi carborundum

c palmer - 27 Oct 2005 04:49 GMT
No. For the lab test, $1700 Lupron shot, DRE and office visit.
==========
boy steve - the prices are dropping.  my dad was paying 1600 dollars for
a 3 month shot and then when they came out with the 4 month shot, the
price jumped to 2200 dollars. and he didn't even get the DRE.   in fact,
he didn't even get to see the doctor.  nurse gave the shot.  we thought
for that kind of money, the doctor should have at least said "hi"

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Heather - 27 Oct 2005 05:45 GMT
>> For what....the PSA test?  Consider yourself lucky.  Up here in the land
> of socialism, PSA tests are not covered by the healthcare system....even
> with cancer....so Ron pays $27 Cdn.  He could get free ones at the
> hospital, but it is more convenient to nip around the corner to the lab.
>
> No.  For the lab test, $1700 Lupron shot, DRE and office visit.

Stop doing that, lol.  You know I get in trouble if I say anything about our
excellent healthcare system up here, so I won't......grin.  And Mr. Jordan
would jump all over me with than TANSTAFFL stuff...

OTOH.....Zoladex is $1200+ for 3 month shot (we pay $4.00)....so even with
the exchange rate, I guess it would be equal.

I think your middle initials are "SD".  You do love to get me in trouble,
lol.

Hey.....just remembered.  There is an excellent article on Pca research and
a new technique they are working on today.  I shall dig it up.  They are
already in a trial.

Cheers....Heather
Steve Jordan - 27 Oct 2005 17:59 GMT
On October 26, Heather responded to Steve Kramer, in pertinent part:

> Stop doing that, lol.  You know I get in trouble if I say anything about our
> excellent healthcare system up here, so I won't......grin.  And Mr. Jordan
> would jump all over me with than TANSTAFFL stuff...

TANSTAAFL is an uncomfortable truth for many, especially socialists. They
just hate it, hate it.

In case anyone wants to know what it means (no one has asked, but I cannot
believe that *everyone* in this gang knows) it's "There Ain't No Such Thing
As A Free Lunch."

As for the excellence of the system, that's debatable and I'm awaiting the
appropriate occasion to do so. Especially interesting is a certain Canadian
Supreme Court decision on the subject.

Regards,

Steve J
Dave P - 25 Oct 2005 13:53 GMT
Steve,

Your in a holding pattern.  Your still <1

Your going to win down the road and beat this thing. So continue to live and
inspire others.

Keep a positive outlook.  Duke and John Hopkins are now encouraging those
with a low psa on hormones to get the vaccine therapy to boost the immune
system. A few Doctors and researchers believe it can provide a knockout
punch to the PCa. I know there are other therapies that are showing signs of
progress.

For many of us its about holding on and having faith for the next big
breakthrough - and its coming.

Keep on fighting and never quit.

My prayers are with you and here's looking at a lower psa on the next test.

Dave P

> On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer
> battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> months
> ago.
dan - 25 Oct 2005 16:23 GMT
> Steve,
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Dave P

Dave P

Can you provide a little info re:  the vaccine therapy for those of us who
don't know as much as we should?

Thanks,

Dan

Signature

PSA = 2.2 , 03/05/2003
PSA = 7.92, 09/30/2004, @ 54
Biopsy, 11/10/2004, G9(5+4) (multiple cores) (6 of 8 cores positive), T1C
EBRT, 01-03/2005 @55
Casodex (daily), begin. 11/16/2004
Zoladex, 12/23/2004, 03/10/2005, 06/14/2005, 09/14/2005
PSA, 0.1, <0.1, <0.1

Dave P - 25 Oct 2005 18:42 GMT
Duke University, Johns Hopkins, and others are researching vaccine use in
combination with hormone therapy. They have had some positive results.  This
is one of a few therapies researchers are trying to perfect. I have provided
a few links below. As I stated in the past, there is so much research being
done today that it is impossible for anyone to follow all the research
studies.  My son is a senior this year and applying to colleges. I have
visited a few Bio Tech Universities and have talked to a researchers and all
have stated that medicine is growing expotentially and companies are getting
closer to stopping PCa at the cellular level. Everyone one I talked with
believes it is right around the corner. One stated 2-5 years. I hope he was
right.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050309101235.htm

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2005/03_15a_05.html

>> Steve,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Dan
Steve Kramer - 25 Oct 2005 23:01 GMT
> Steve,

> Keep a positive outlook.  Duke and John Hopkins are now encouraging those
> with a low psa on hormones to get the vaccine therapy to boost the immune
> system. A few Doctors and researchers believe it can provide a knockout
> punch to the PCa. I know there are other therapies that are showing signs of
> progress.

Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.  My next question of my doc -- in February.
Vaccine makes sense at < 0.1.

> Keep on fighting and never quit.

As I have mentioned before, having watched the bastard kill my father, it
was inconceivable that I would have fought as hard.  But, new meds make it a
tad easier at the end and I think I will assert that I will keep up the good
fight.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
non Illegitimi carborundum

Dennis D - 26 Oct 2005 03:47 GMT
Steve Kramer,

I wonder what the lab's observed standard deviation is for it's PSA
test.  You quote values to two decimal places (not 3).  Hence, a
standard deviation of .02 is not unreasonable.  A change of .03 could
well be a statistical fluctuation.

Dennis

>On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer
>battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>words of encouragement.  All I see is a 60% increase in PSA from five months
>ago.
Stavros Moschos - 26 Oct 2005 17:19 GMT
Steve,

I am trying to absorb all of these messages before rep[lying, but I can't
wait that long.  I agree with those who wrote that what is significant is
the doubling rate over a period of time.  Surges,  especially over short
periods are not significant, so stay steady.  My own next PSA is in a couple
of days (at three months rather than six, at my request because I am
curious), and I am taking this advice: don't trouble trouble till trouble
troubles you.

But why am I saying this to you?  You are a model of perfect forbearance.

Stavros

> On October 17, 5 years after my PSA that got me started in this cancer
> battle, I had my blood drawn for my 4-month (ended up being 5-month) test
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> months
> ago.
Steve Kramer - 27 Oct 2005 02:42 GMT
Okay, Fr.  Thanks.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 .08
non Illegitimi carborundum

> Steve,
>
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> > months
> > ago.

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