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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / October 2005

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prostate biopsy

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Peter - 03 Oct 2005 03:19 GMT
To Whom It May Concern:

Please let me know how often should be taken the prostate biopsy if the PSA
is in the range of 4.2-4.8 ng/mL for a long time.

Thanks,

Peter
ross lazarus - 03 Oct 2005 03:49 GMT
> Please let me know how often should be taken the prostate biopsy if the PSA
> is in the range of 4.2-4.8 ng/mL for a long time.

Peter, it's hard to offer good advice in this situation and virtually impossible without a lot more
detail.

PSA alone is neither sensitive to disease nor specific to health - meaning that both false positives
(high values, no cancer) and false negatives (low values, cancer) are regrettably common. 4.2 is
outside what is generally regarded as the healthy range, but inflammation or vigorous sex the night
before the test can raise the level just like cancer can.

For what it's worth, I'm 54. My PCA was found on the first biopsy on an initial PSA of 5.6 but I had
an abnormal rectal examination with one lobe larger than the other. I think you need advice from a
very experienced and trustworthy medical adviser who has all your details and best interest at
heart. Biopsy tends to have a very low false positive rate but even well performed biopsies can be
false negatives - if a small cancer is present, it can be missed, but if cancer is diagnosed by a
competent pathologist, it's certainly there!

However, since you asked, I think that if I'd had a negative biopsy, I'd probably have wanted
regular PSA/DRE and another biopsy in a year or two if nothing had changed or sooner if something
did change. On the other hand, if I'd been 84, I'd probably just have got on with my life.... It's a
difficult and very personal matter. I wish you well - may your biopsies continue to be true negatives!
Alan Meyer - 03 Oct 2005 05:28 GMT
> ...
> However, since you asked, I think that if I'd had a negative biopsy, I'd probably have
> wanted regular PSA/DRE and another biopsy in a year or two if nothing had changed or
> sooner if something did change. On the other hand, if I'd been 84, I'd probably just
> have got on with my life.... It's a difficult and very personal matter. I wish you
> well - may your biopsies continue to be true negatives!

Ross,

I agree with everything Peter said.

If you are getting a PSA test once per year, perhaps you can get one
every 6 months instead.  The PSA test is easy, cheap, and has no real
risk of complications.  Since your PSA is higher than normal, getting a
test at least every 6 months seems like a conservative option.

Be sure not to have sex or to stress the prostate with bike riding or other
activity for at least 2 days before each test.

I was told by the first urologist I met with after a PSA of 6.3, that only
15% of men with a PSA that high have cancer.  Unfortunately, I was one
of them.  But with your 4.2, there is a very good chance that you still don't
have any detectable cancer.

But do watch it.  If the PSA rises, then another biopsy would seem like a
good idea.

Best of luck.

    Alan
Reuben Rothstein - 03 Oct 2005 06:01 GMT
The scale is correlated to age - how old are you?

>To Whom It May Concern:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Peter
james_wv@hotmail.com - 03 Oct 2005 15:04 GMT
It's hard to tell what the PSA means.  Age and prostate size are
factors.

My pre-biopsy PSA's were 4.7 and 4.3 with 17% free PSA (age 48).  My PG
was enlarged and my Uro said he full expected that my large PG would
explain the high PSA and there would be no cancer.  However he found 2
positive samples in the right lobe and my RRP found 'considerable'
cancer on the right side.
MrP - 03 Oct 2005 16:32 GMT
>To Whom It May Concern:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Peter

My only observation would be with regard to my own case, where my PSA
was in that range for many years--when it rose to nearly 6, biopsies
showed the prostate to be completely filled with cancer that had
spread from the bladder lining.  Had biopsies been done sooner I might
have been spared considerable misery... but then again, maybe not.
Glassman - 05 Oct 2005 04:50 GMT
> To Whom It May Concern:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Peter

  This is strictly your doc's place to answer, not us novices. If you don't
have confidence in your Uro, find one that you trust. Do don't want to wait
too long if the doc suspects something do you?

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Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
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A Sherman - 05 Oct 2005 15:33 GMT
"Peter" wrote :
> Please let me know how often should be taken the prostate biopsy if the PSA
> is in the range of 4.2-4.8 ng/mL for a long time.

This could be similar to my case.

I had a RPP at age 66 in April 2004.

My PSA had been wavering between 4.8 and 6 between 1997 and early 2003.  My
PSA was tested twice a year during this time with Free PSA Index mostly
between .18 and .22.

I had a negative 6-core biopsy in 1998.

A PSA increase to 7.1 in late 2003 triggered another biopsy.  One of 12 cores
showed Gleason 6(3+3), T1C.

The pathology report says:
Focal Andenocarcinoma (Maximal dimension 0.9 cm on slide A26)
Tumor site Right Lobe (Slides A25, A26,A27)
Gleason 3+4=7
TNM Stage PT2A, PNX, PMX
(T2A = 1 slide, <50%, T2B = 1 slide, > 50%, T2C = Bilateral)

I take this to indicate that the tumor was relatively small.

My Uro reported that my prostate was huge at 150 grams, although this was not
mentioned in the pathology summary.  I asked whether my history of elevated
PSA was due to the prostate size and my Uro replied "maybe".

Al
westwindwood2003@yahoo.com - 05 Oct 2005 20:24 GMT
PSA 13.7, Prostate size 94, urologist says size can account for my PSA
level.
ron - 05 Oct 2005 20:36 GMT
Anything is possible, but the general rule of thumb is
normal PSA produced = 0.066 x prostate size in grams,
anything significantly in excess of this number would be suggestive of
tumor PSA production...Ron
A Sherman - 06 Oct 2005 00:50 GMT
"ron" <oitbso@yahoo.com> wrote...
> Anything is possible, but the general rule of thumb is
> normal PSA produced = 0.066 x prostate size in grams,
> anything significantly in excess of this number would be suggestive of
> tumor PSA production...Ron

Thanks Ron.  I hadn't seen that before.  This would give a PSA limit of 9.9
for my 150 gm prostate.

I think the doc said the second biopsy predicted a 120 gm prostate from the
ultrasound image.  I never heard a size estimate from the first biopsy.

Al
 
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