Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / October 2005
Zoladex (Goselerin) How long does it work?
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Gareth Jefferson - 25 Sep 2005 02:17 GMT I was put on Zoladex a year ago, stopped last December, then told to resume a week ago.
Does anyone know how long this ablates testosterone?
I thought about 18 months was it.
Steve Kramer - 25 Sep 2005 12:06 GMT Good to hear from you again, Gareth. Can't answer your question. Based on what I have read here, it varies widely among users.
As I recall, your initial PSA during 2004 was about a five. You either tried radiation but had a problem or couldn't even try it (I don't remember). I assume Zoladex worked if they took you off in December. I also assume it's since started rising. Can you tell us your history?
I am most curious in that if your doc was thinking intermittent ADT, July to December seems far too short.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum
> I was put on Zoladex a year ago, stopped last December, then told to resume > a week ago. > > Does anyone know how long this ablates testosterone? > > I thought about 18 months was it. Di ck Winters - 29 Sep 2005 16:38 GMT I have been on Lupron, starting 3 years after my prostate was removed, for five and a half years now. I was also on Casodex for 3 of those years. My PSA has remained at <0.1. I always am concerned about each quarterly appointment with my doctor, but so far so good. I see him again in October.
Steve Kramer - 01 Oct 2005 12:10 GMT I'm glad to hear from you. I mean I'm really glad to hear. I'm on Lupon for 2+ years with half your original PSA and 'only' a 7 Gleason. Of course, I was 20 years younger which works against me, I guess. But, I still watch your posts with great interest.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum
> I have been on Lupron, starting 3 years after my prostate was removed, > for five and a half years now. I was also on Casodex for 3 of those > years. My PSA has remained at <0.1. I always am concerned about each > quarterly appointment with my doctor, but so far so good. I see him > again in October. Gareth Jefferson - 02 Oct 2005 13:06 GMT Thanks for all the encouraging response. The on-again-off-again story of my Zoladex (more or less = Luperon) is this. Somewhat over a year ago my MRI scan showed a dark lump in my right pelvic lymph node that, according to the radiologist's report, was "probably metastasis". So my oncologist put me on Zoladex as "only palliative care is available to you now". Later my urologist thought the "metastasis" was more likely calcification of the lymph node; I was subsequently offered a place on a trial at University College Hospital, London for the HIFU modality (at present still fairly new in the UK), but was told that to be eligible for the trial I would have to be off Zoladex, Lupron and similar LHRH agonists for a minimum of six months. So I stopped last December.
A couple of weeks ago the hospital contacted me to say I should go back on Zoladex (read: "You're not on the trial any more")
University College Hospital London (aka The Middlesex Hospital) may, in the fullness of time, acquire a new HIFU machine, but how long this could take, and how soon I could be expected to be operated on is unknown, and very likely unknowable. So I am considering having the procedure done in France, or possibly Japan.
The British National Health Service certainly spreads round the misery very equably between those who have and those who have not. America is so much more Biblical: "Unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Regards,
-- Gareth.
On 1/10/05 12:10 pm, in article I8u%e.61386$vJ4.49886@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com, "Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
> I'm glad to hear from you. I mean I'm really glad to hear. I'm on Lupon > for 2+ years with half your original PSA and 'only' a 7 Gleason. Of course, > I was 20 years younger which works against me, I guess. But, I still watch > your posts with great interest. I. P. Freely - 02 Oct 2005 18:57 GMT "Gareth Jefferson" >
> America is so much > more Biblical: "Unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have > abundance: but but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that > which he hath. Someone's been reading and watching too much anti-American propaganda. Get back to us when you learn some, you know . . . FACTS. Example: Everyone has access to medical care . . . and it ain't the poor who pay for most of it.
I.P.
Alan Meyer - 30 Sep 2005 00:34 GMT > I was put on Zoladex a year ago, stopped last December, > then told to resume a week ago. > > Does anyone know how long this ablates testosterone? > > I thought about 18 months was it. Gareth,
I'm not an expert, but here's the theory as I understand it.
Lupron, Zoladex, and other LHRH agonists suppress the production of testosterone for as long as you take them. If you live another 30 years and use Zoladex for the entire time, it will suppress T production as well or better in the 30th year as in the first.
The real issue is, how long do you benefit from suppression of T?
Some types of prostate cancer cells are highly dependent on the presence of T in order to grow and reproduce. Others are not. They'll grow and reproduce even if there is no testosterone in the body.
Most men have a mix of the two types of cells, with the T dependent cells predominating. When on Zoladex, those cells (so the theory goes) do not multiply and many actually die off. But the other cells continue to divide and multiply. Eventually, most of the tumor cells in the body are the non- dependent kind. At that point, the hormone therapy isn't doing much more good. Most of the cancer is of the second kind and it's unaffected by the absence of T.
Different men have different mixes of cancer cell types. Some have highly T dependent cancers and some don't. One measure of which you are is, how low did your PSA go when on hormone therapy. The lower it got, the more T dependent your cancer is. Dr. Steven Strum claims in his book that men that get down to .05 PSA on HT have highly T dependent cancers and can hope to live a very long time on HT. If I remember correctly, he said he never saw anyone relapse in the first five years if they got that low and many were getting 10 years or even more.
Francois Mitterand, the former President of France, was diagnosed with advanced metastatic PCa just 6 months after taking office. He went on HT and hid his cancer from everyone until after he left office. He lived 15 years after diagnosis.
Other men have only gotten as little as 6 months of benefit.
In your case, the low point you reached in your first bout of HT may give you some clues as to how long it will continue helping you.
For you, and any of us who is on HT, it may not be necessary to live the rest of your natural life on HT. All we need to do is live until newer and better treatments come along.
I'm hoping that will happen in the next few years.
Best of luck with it.
Alan
Justin Case - 30 Sep 2005 17:02 GMT : > I was put on Zoladex a year ago, stopped last December, : > then told to resume a week ago. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] : production of testosterone for as long as you : take them. <Remainder snipped>
Your explanation, Alan, is certainly more complete than anything I can offer but my doctor said that, in layman's terms, Lupron, the one hormone I was injected with twice, essentially "puts the cancer cells to sleep, makes them dormant, for a while but does nothing to kill or destroy them." It was explained to me that most men achieve benefit from hormone injections, if they benefit at all, for little more than two years, at which time the cancer cells, again speaking metaphorically, reawaken.
After two such injections of Lupron and dubious PSA results following it was recommended that radiation should be my next option. Radiation has its undesirable consequences as well but in my case my PSA checks have been undetectable for nearly four years.
Ken Bland
Steve Kramer - 01 Oct 2005 12:15 GMT I concur. I don't know your age or stats (other than a 28 PSA), but I was surprised when you got HT before RT. RRP can cure. RT can still cure. HT almost never cures.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum
> : > I was put on Zoladex a year ago, stopped last December, > : > then told to resume a week ago. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Ken Bland Alan Meyer - 03 Oct 2005 02:09 GMT >I concur. I don't know your age or stats (other than a 28 PSA), but I was > surprised when you got HT before RT. RRP can cure. RT can still cure. HT > almost never cures. Agreed.
Did Gareth's doctors think his cancer was inoperable and inaccessible to x-rays? If so, HT would be the recommended treatment. If not, unless he was already advanced in years or seriously ill with other conditions, you'd think they'd have sent him for RP or RT.
Alan
Steve Kramer - 04 Oct 2005 01:20 GMT One obvious difference is that Gareth is from the UK. That's neither good nor bad, just an observation. You've been around this NG a couple of years now. I'm sure you've noted that UK doesn't seem to go by the same road map as USA and CA. And further into Europe is even more different.
Again, I am not saying it's better or worse. I'm not trying to set any of our UK brothers off. It's just different.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum
> >I concur. I don't know your age or stats (other than a 28 PSA), but I was > > surprised when you got HT before RT. RRP can cure. RT can still cure. HT [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Alan
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