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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / October 2005

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Zoladex (Goselerin) How long does it work?

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Gareth Jefferson - 25 Sep 2005 02:17 GMT
I was put on Zoladex a year ago, stopped last December, then told to resume
a week ago.

Does anyone know how long this ablates testosterone?

I thought about 18 months was it.
Steve Kramer - 25 Sep 2005 12:06 GMT
Good to hear from you again, Gareth.  Can't answer your question.  Based on
what I have read here, it varies widely among users.

As I recall, your initial PSA during 2004 was about a five.  You either
tried radiation but had a problem or couldn't even try it (I don't
remember).  I assume Zoladex worked if they took you off in December.  I
also assume it's since started rising.  Can you tell us your history?

I am most curious in that if your doc was thinking intermittent ADT, July to
December seems far too short.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> I was put on Zoladex a year ago, stopped last December, then told to resume
> a week ago.
>
> Does anyone know how long this ablates testosterone?
>
> I thought about 18 months was it.
Di ck Winters - 29 Sep 2005 16:38 GMT
I have been on Lupron, starting 3 years after my prostate was removed,
for five and a half years now.  I was also on Casodex for 3 of those
years.  My PSA has remained at <0.1.  I always am concerned about each
quarterly appointment with my doctor, but so far so good.  I see him
again in October.
Steve Kramer - 01 Oct 2005 12:10 GMT
I'm glad to hear from you.  I mean I'm really glad to hear.  I'm on Lupon
for 2+ years with half your original PSA and 'only' a 7 Gleason.  Of course,
I was 20 years younger which works against me, I guess.  But, I still watch
your posts with great interest.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> I have been on Lupron, starting 3 years after my prostate was removed,
> for five and a half years now.  I was also on Casodex for 3 of those
> years.  My PSA has remained at <0.1.  I always am concerned about each
> quarterly appointment with my doctor, but so far so good.  I see him
> again in October.
Gareth Jefferson - 02 Oct 2005 13:06 GMT
Thanks for all the encouraging response. The on-again-off-again story of my
Zoladex (more or less = Luperon) is this. Somewhat over a year ago my MRI
scan showed a dark lump in my right pelvic lymph node that, according to the
radiologist's report, was "probably metastasis". So my oncologist put me on
Zoladex as "only palliative care is available to you now". Later my
urologist thought the "metastasis" was more likely calcification of the
lymph node; I was subsequently offered a place on a trial at University
College Hospital, London for the HIFU modality (at present still fairly new
in the UK), but was told that to be eligible for the trial I would have to
be off Zoladex, Lupron and similar LHRH agonists for a minimum of six
months. So I stopped last December.

A couple of weeks ago the hospital contacted me to say I should go back on
Zoladex (read: "You're not on the trial any more")

University College Hospital London (aka The Middlesex Hospital) may, in the
fullness of time, acquire a new HIFU machine, but how long this could take,
and how soon I could be expected to be operated on is unknown, and very
likely unknowable. So I am considering having the procedure done in
France, or possibly Japan.

The British National Health Service certainly spreads round the misery very
equably between those who have and those who have not. America is so much
more Biblical: "Unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have
abundance: but but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that
which he hath.

Regards,

-- Gareth.

On 1/10/05 12:10 pm, in article
I8u%e.61386$vJ4.49886@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com, "Steve Kramer"
<skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote:

> I'm glad to hear from you.  I mean I'm really glad to hear.  I'm on Lupon
> for 2+ years with half your original PSA and 'only' a 7 Gleason.  Of course,
> I was 20 years younger which works against me, I guess.  But, I still watch
> your posts with great interest.
I. P. Freely - 02 Oct 2005 18:57 GMT
"Gareth Jefferson" >
> America is so much
> more Biblical: "Unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have
> abundance: but but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that
> which he hath.

Someone's been reading and watching too much anti-American propaganda. Get
back to us when you learn some, you know . . . FACTS.
Example: Everyone has access to medical care . . . and it ain't the poor who
pay for most of it.

I.P.
Alan Meyer - 30 Sep 2005 00:34 GMT
> I was put on Zoladex a year ago, stopped last December,
> then told to resume a week ago.
>
> Does anyone know how long this ablates testosterone?
>
> I thought about 18 months was it.

Gareth,

I'm not an expert, but here's the theory as I understand it.

Lupron, Zoladex, and other LHRH agonists suppress the
production of testosterone for as long as you
take them.  If you live another 30 years and use Zoladex for
the entire time, it will suppress T production as well or
better in the 30th year as in the first.

The real issue is, how long do you benefit from suppression
of T?

Some types of prostate cancer cells are highly dependent on
the presence of T in order to grow and reproduce.  Others are
not.  They'll grow and reproduce even if there is no
testosterone in the body.

Most men have a mix of the two types of cells, with the T
dependent cells predominating.  When on Zoladex, those cells
(so the theory goes) do not multiply and many actually die
off.  But the other cells continue to divide and multiply.
Eventually, most of the tumor cells in the body are the non-
dependent kind.  At that point, the hormone therapy isn't
doing much more good.  Most of the cancer is of the second
kind and it's unaffected by the absence of T.

Different men have different mixes of cancer cell types.
Some have highly T dependent cancers and some don't.  One
measure of which you are is, how low did your PSA go when
on hormone therapy.  The lower it got, the more T dependent
your cancer is.  Dr. Steven Strum claims in his book that men
that get down to .05 PSA on HT have highly T dependent cancers
and can hope to live a very long time on HT.  If I remember
correctly, he said he never saw anyone relapse in the first
five years if they got that low and many were getting 10 years
or even more.

Francois Mitterand, the former President of France, was
diagnosed with advanced metastatic PCa just 6 months after
taking office.  He went on HT and hid his cancer from everyone
until after he left office.  He lived 15 years after diagnosis.

Other men have only gotten as little as 6 months of benefit.

In your case, the low point you reached in your first bout
of HT may give you some clues as to how long it will continue
helping you.

For you, and any of us who is on HT, it may not be necessary
to live the rest of your natural life on HT.  All we need to
do is live until newer and better treatments come along.

I'm hoping that will happen in the next few years.

Best of luck with it.

   Alan
Justin Case - 30 Sep 2005 17:02 GMT
: > I was put on Zoladex a year ago, stopped last December,
: > then told to resume a week ago.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
: production of testosterone for as long as you
: take them.

<Remainder snipped>

Your explanation, Alan, is certainly more complete than anything I can offer
but my doctor said that, in layman's terms, Lupron, the one hormone I was
injected with twice, essentially "puts the cancer cells to sleep, makes them
dormant, for a while but does nothing to kill or destroy them."  It was
explained to me that most men achieve benefit from hormone injections, if
they benefit at all, for little more than two years, at which time the
cancer cells, again speaking metaphorically, reawaken.

After two such injections of Lupron and dubious PSA results following it was
recommended that radiation should be my next option.  Radiation has its
undesirable consequences as well but in my case my PSA checks have been
undetectable for nearly four years.

Ken Bland
Steve Kramer - 01 Oct 2005 12:15 GMT
I concur.  I don't know your age or stats (other than a 28 PSA), but I was
surprised when you got HT before RT.  RRP can cure.  RT can still cure.  HT
almost never cures.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> : > I was put on Zoladex a year ago, stopped last December,
> : > then told to resume a week ago.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Ken Bland
Alan Meyer - 03 Oct 2005 02:09 GMT
>I concur.  I don't know your age or stats (other than a 28 PSA), but I was
> surprised when you got HT before RT.  RRP can cure.  RT can still cure.  HT
> almost never cures.

Agreed.

Did Gareth's doctors think his cancer was inoperable and inaccessible
to x-rays?  If so, HT would be the recommended treatment.  If not, unless
he was already advanced in years or seriously ill with other conditions,
you'd think they'd have sent him for RP or RT.

   Alan
Steve Kramer - 04 Oct 2005 01:20 GMT
One obvious difference is that Gareth is from the UK.  That's neither good
nor bad, just an observation.  You've been around this NG a couple of years
now.  I'm sure you've noted that UK doesn't seem to go by the same road map
as USA and CA.  And further into Europe is even more different.

Again, I am not saying it's better or worse.  I'm not trying to set any of
our UK brothers off.  It's just different.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> >I concur.  I don't know your age or stats (other than a 28 PSA), but I was
> > surprised when you got HT before RT.  RRP can cure.  RT can still cure.  HT
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>     Alan
 
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