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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / October 2005

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Hello Again, and Info needed

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RVO - 24 Sep 2005 18:21 GMT
Hi all!

Well, it's been a long time since AOL cancelled my access to this
group, and it's taken me this long to find you all again!

I had my RRP in January 2004 (I was then 52), and to date, I've had an
excellent recovery.  "Everything works" just fine (thanks to a great
surgeon), and I'm now accustomed to 'dry orgasms'.  My only remaining
side effect is some urine leakage during heavy/stressful lifting,,,,
which is at a very minimum.  For 99% of the time, I don't bother
wearing a pad (Stayfree Ultrathin - cut in half when needed).

My next PSA will be in 2 weeks, and since my surgery, my PSA has been
"undetectable".  (It was 4.1 before surgery)

I've returned today to spread my own personal 'success story', and to
ask a huge favor.

I lost my job in June of this year, and with it, my life insurance.  I
applied for a new policy, and in today's mail was a letter stating my
application for insurance has been "postponed due to history of
prostate cancer".  If I request it, they may be able to reconsider my
application in January 2007.  How generous!

Does anyone know of a life insurance company that will not deny me
insurance now that I'm prostate cancer free?  And, will other insurance
companies deny me insurance because this one particular carrier has
denied me insurance?

Any and all information will be gratefully accepted!!!!!

Rus
Massachusetts
James A. Honeychuck - 24 Sep 2005 18:54 GMT
Rus,

State Life Insurance gave me a big policy even with elevated PSA.  In
fact that's how my case was caught, screening for an insurance policy.

Smart move on their part, as I'm cured and they're not gonna lose their
money with me.

jimhoney
standard RRP age 52, cured, no significant aftereffects

> Hi all!
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> Rus
> Massachusetts
Steve Kramer - 24 Sep 2005 19:03 GMT
Good to hear from you again, Rus.  Great news about your cancer.  Not so
about your job and insurance.

I have looked over many insurance policy questionnaires and the best I've
seen was "Have you been diagnosed with cancer within the last five years?"

You might try AARP.  I suspect their real interest lies outside the realm of
retired people, but it is possible they have relationships with some
companies that would take a look at a person and charge based on actuarials
of known cancer types.  Even that would likely be costly, I think, before
your 3rd year.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> Hi all!
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> Rus
> Massachusetts
Peter Headland - 24 Sep 2005 19:08 GMT
At the very least I would have thought someone would write you a policy
with an exclusion clause. But I really would expect you simply to have
to pay an increased premium that reflects the additional actuarial
risk. A good specialised broker will almost certainly be able to help
find you an appropriate policy.

Please let us know the outcome of all of this, as the information will
be of value to many of us.

Signature

Peter Headland

Glassman - 26 Sep 2005 15:25 GMT
> Hi all!
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Rus
> Massachusetts

  You may not like this but here goes... LIE.  You want insurance to cover
your untimely death, not death in 10 years due to PCa.  Get an SBLI $100k
term policy that may not even require a physical. If you should get hit by a
truck or die of a heart attack, no mention of your past PCa will even come
up. You can even add another policy each year, and before you know it 5
years will have come and gone.

Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

USC Gamecock - 26 Sep 2005 15:52 GMT
I'm sorry, but that is the craziest thing I've seen on here in a while
Glassman.  Not only is lying just plain wrong, that would constitute
insurance fraud --- resulting in higher premiums for you and me.

I like the suggestions of some others - find a broker that can search
for a policy that will either have a higher premium or one that has
exclusion causes.  There are policies to be had.  But to lie about your
health history is flat out WRONG.  That suggestion is laughable at
best, disconcerting most of all.
I. P. Freely - 26 Sep 2005 16:34 GMT
> I'm sorry, but that is the craziest thing I've seen on here in a while
> Glassman.  Not only is lying just plain wrong, that would constitute
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> health history is flat out WRONG.  That suggestion is laughable at
> best, disconcerting most of all.

On top of those excellent points, the ins co would refuse to pay as soon as
they discovered the deception, which is not only fraud but theft. Long term
care insurance companies apparently still WANTED my business despite my PC,
as they're encouraged by zero PSAs (I haven't gotten back to them since the
colon cancer appeared). And my brother had no problems getting Blue
Cross/Blue Shield with exclusion clauses.

Glassman, you just lost my respect. Besides the illegality of your advice,
ins co's are looking closely for every excuse to deny or cancel policies of
all sorts these days, and they have access to more of our medical records
than our doctors do. I'll bet a dirty diaper that any ins co who wants to
know can quickly find out what size and type of Depends I buy and how many
staples I have in my gut.

I.P.
Steve Kramer - 26 Sep 2005 21:54 GMT
I understand the cultural perspective to look at insurance companies as
thieving bastards who take all your money then argue with you when you have
an honest claim.  Hell, that's how they get all those nice skyscrapers?

But, lying on your application regarding a health issue is insurance fraud.
Certainly, the fraud won't be charged because the crook will be pushing up
daisies by the time it is discovered.  But the beneficiary is not likely to
be paid; the premiums are not likely to be reimbursed; and the beneficiary
could be considered an accessory if she put her signature on the papers.

Don't try to outsmart the insurance companies.  They've been ripping people
off for millennia.  You might as well try outsmarting God.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> > Hi all!
> >
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> up. You can even add another policy each year, and before you know it 5
> years will have come and gone.
Glassman - 28 Sep 2005 22:44 GMT
....as I said "you're not going to like this", to prefice my remark.   My
advice was a desperate, last case scenario based on the OP problems. I have
to add that in the real world, as a last measure you do whatever you must to
help your family.  If I knew I was going to die, I wouldn't think twice of
doing whatever short of murder to make sure my family was taken care of.
I'd gladly risk prison or even IP's respect. Those of you with "higher"
moral fiber may get to heaven before me, but my family comes first at any
cost.  Screw the insurance companies.... they've been screwing us forever.
I'm sure we can all come up with multiple stories about them turning their
backs on the needy.  I don't buy into this insurance fraud BS as the cause
of high rates. Sounds like tobacco & cable company rhetoric to me.  Go into
any city or town in the world and look at the skyline. Who owns the biggest
buildings?  Who's execs get the biggest most inflated salaries? Who pays for
all this? Why can SBLI charge 1/2 the premiums the big boys can? Why do they
continue to sell whole life policies that are a terrible investment
according to most financial planners instead of term? Those are all much
bigger reasons for rates in my opinion then their advertised insurance fraud
BS is. Fraud may be responsible for 2-5% of claims, overhead is responsible
for as much as 50%. Getting a policy by lying about your PCa doesn't mean
that a claim will ever be made.  If you don't die from PCa will they refund
your money in 5 years?
   Sorry but that's my feeling.  I do have a bit of a history in insurance
as a financial planner and a stockbroker.  The training is as brutal a sales
course as a used car salesman.  Sell sell sell for commissions at any cost.
We got as much as half the first years premiums on a whole life policy....
and they say insurance fraud is the culprit? What a joke. If along the way
you do right by your customer, well that's even better. Oh by the way I have
plenty of insurance, both health and life thank god, well before my illness
struck.  Sorry for the rant.  I always teach my children that lying is the
worst thing you can do. This may be the one and only exception!

Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

I. P. Freely - 29 Sep 2005 00:09 GMT
> as a last measure you do whatever you must to
> help your family.

Sure . . . if it helps. But aren't the the odds of getting caught,
prosecuted, not paid, and blackballed far higher than winning?

I phoned my city draft board from a thousand miles away and said, "I'm
almost 25, and have had a student deferment. What are my odds of escaping
the draft?"
Her answer: "Is this I.P. Freely?"
Here's the chilling part: This was decades before Caller ID, and long before
computers were in common use.

I spent the next 20 years in uniform.

I.P.
Steve Jordan - 29 Sep 2005 00:59 GMT
On September 28, I. P. Freely responded to "Glassman":

>>as a last measure you do whatever you must to
>>help your family.

And IP wrote:

> Sure . . . if it helps. But aren't the the odds of getting caught,
> prosecuted, not paid, and blackballed far higher than winning?

A lie is a lie is a lie. The liar should not try to draw the cloak of moral
superiority over himself. His word is not to be trusted in any matter
whatsoever. There is a legal principle, the Latin of which I disremember,
but it is something like this: "If one is a liar in one matter, he is
presumed to be a liar in all matters."

And in the case of insurance fraud, there is little if any difference from
just plain fraud. It is stealing. It is theft. The perpetrator is no better
than a burglar.  There is no excuse no matter how self-righteous the thief
feels.

And yup, I realize that in these days of the unpopularity of any principles
at all other than "get yours and the devil take the hindmost" this is
laughably old-fashioned.  Until YOU are the one who is being screwed.

Regards,

Steve J

"I am different from Washington; I have a higher, grander standard of
principle. Washington could not lie. I can lie, but I won't."
--Mark Twain
I. P. Freely - 29 Sep 2005 03:18 GMT
I fully agree with you, Steve. But Glassman's qualifier "anything to protect
my family" changes . . .

Oops. I almost went down that road with my head up my nevermind. He's not
protecting his family from an armed intruder bent on murder); he's
committing a crime to protect family finances. That's no different from
burglary, car theft . . . anything short of armed robbery (because it
endangers others).

OK. We're back to full agreement.

I.P.

> On September 28, I. P. Freely responded to "Glassman":
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> principle. Washington could not lie. I can lie, but I won't."
> --Mark Twain
Glassman - 01 Oct 2005 01:38 GMT
   I see that I have obtained my just reward for posing the "lie to the
insurance company" scheme. The thread has deteriorated into a religious
argument.... YUCK. The only thing worse in my mind is an evening with your
insurance salesman!

Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Steve Jordan - 01 Oct 2005 02:10 GMT
On September 30 Glassman replied to IP:

>     I see that I have obtained my just reward for posing the "lie to the
> insurance company" scheme. The thread has deteriorated into a religious
> argument.... YUCK.

Lawn fertilizer.

There's that cloak of Moral Superiority again. AKA situational ethics AKA
whatever feels good and to hell with everyone else.

And if G cannot win his argument any other way, he sneers at his opponents,
labeling them (eek!) religious. Yet another lie.

Facts are irrelevant, since he's already established that he has no ethical
standards and will lie at the drop of a hat.

Love & kisses,

Steve J

"I am under no obligation to respect your beliefs. Respect is earned; it is
not an entitlement.
-- Lionel Shriver
Glassman - 02 Oct 2005 07:00 GMT
> On September 30 Glassman replied to IP:
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> And if G cannot win his argument any other way, he sneers at his opponents,
> labeling them (eek!) religious. Yet another lie.

  You left out my punchline Steve Jordan. Maybe you didn't see it?  What
argument am I trying to win? I proposed an aternative method for getting
insurance when all else fails.  Does that make me a thief?Sneering?
Opponents? Lies? Are you taking your meds?  What the heck are you talking
about?  If I advise someone to commit murder, am I  a killer? I thought it
was pretty clever to compare your self righteous religious lecturing to a
night with an INSURANCE salesman...... no?  Where's your sense of humor? You
seem to be looking for conflict like The Man of LaMancha. You won't get it
from me. I've been posting here for 3 years, trying to help folks in the
same boat as I was.  Go fight with someone that enjoys it.  I'd rather make
love. Cheer up.... we're still alive.

Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

I. P. Freely - 03 Oct 2005 01:57 GMT
> I proposed an aternative method for getting
> insurance when all else fails.  Does that make me a thief?
> If I advise someone to commit murder, am I  a killer?

No . . . just a felony co-conspirator and an immoral person, religious
issues aside.

I.P.
ron - 03 Oct 2005 03:00 GMT
Sometimes people with cancer, some days just regular folks trying to
make it through "life", may have a skewed view of a subject.  I can't
cast the first stone...Ron
Glassman - 03 Oct 2005 03:06 GMT
> "Glassman" wrote
>  > I proposed an aternative method for getting
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> I.P.

 See you on the other side IP! LOL

Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Steve Kramer - 29 Sep 2005 02:33 GMT
My boss and I had a discussion once.  He's a Big Bang kind of guy and does
not believe in God.  I'm believe God caused a Big Bang.  We were
'pleasantly' debating until I told him that he's basically amoral.

'Twas my point that without a belief in God, when things get down to brass
tacks, there is nothing in him that would prevent him from doing almost
anything to save his friends, or maybe just his family, and almost certainly
himself.  As a matter of fact, I figure he would throw his wife or child in
front of a bullet if he was certain no one else would know.  Why not?
Nothing in his afterlife to fear.

Funny thing is, a devout believer in God would choose God over family
(Matthew 10:30something).  I guess family is screwed either way.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> ....as I said "you're not going to like this", to prefice my remark.   My
> advice was a desperate, last case scenario based on the OP problems. I have
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> struck.  Sorry for the rant.  I always teach my children that lying is the
> worst thing you can do. This may be the one and only exception!
I. P. Freely - 29 Sep 2005 03:23 GMT
My morals have little to with God. The Golden Rule is good enough for me,
even with insurance companies . . . at least until mine breaks the Rule
first then gives me a chance to return the favor. I LIKE playing by most
rules, as it helps my sleep immensely.

I.P.

> My boss and I had a discussion once.  He's a Big Bang kind of guy and does
> not believe in God.  I'm believe God caused a Big Bang.  We were
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> front of a bullet if he was certain no one else would know.  Why not?
> Nothing in his afterlife to fear.
Steve Kramer - 29 Sep 2005 21:56 GMT
It's just a theory.

> My morals have little to with God. The Golden Rule is good enough for me,
> even with insurance companies . . . at least until mine breaks the Rule
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> > front of a bullet if he was certain no one else would know.  Why not?
> > Nothing in his afterlife to fear.
Greg Louis - 29 Sep 2005 11:33 GMT
> 'Twas my point that without a belief in God, when things get down to brass
> tacks, there is nothing in him that would prevent him from doing almost
> anything to save his friends, or maybe just his family, and almost
> certainly himself.  As a matter of fact, I figure he would throw his wife
> or child in front of a bullet if he was certain no one else would know.
> Why not? Nothing in his afterlife to fear.

If I understand you correctly, you would see no objection to doing any
wrong or committing any crime if you did not happen to believe in eternal
torment as a consequence of such behaviour.

Actually I'm quite sure that's not the case.  Morals have less to do with
religion and more to do with upbringing and habit than many religious
folks seem to believe.

Fortunately, most of the rest of us are sufficiently deterred by not
wanting to cringe when we look in the mirror every morning.

Sorry for posting off-topic.  Steve, if you'd like to discuss further,
let's take it private.

Signature

Greg

Peter Headland - 29 Sep 2005 16:00 GMT
> I told him that he's basically amoral.

And also very likely to be a suicide bomber without a God to reward
him.

To follow your argument to its logical conclusion, atheists should be
treated as second-class citizens compared to the devout in situations
such as conflicting testimony in court cases. Now do you understand why
some people get so upset about the public display of the 10
commandments in court houses?

It's a funny thing, but I never felt actively threatened by others'
religious beliefs until I came to the USA. I see no difference between
the hard core religious right and the Taliban.

Signature

Peter Headland

judamd@aol.com - 29 Sep 2005 16:30 GMT
I have been preaching all my adult life that civilization as we know it
is a very fragile thing and is secure only when religions are kept out
of the ruling mix.  While the pendulum swings left and right over the
decades, too far to the right and it gets stuck there, nailed in place
by whatever religion dominates the scene.  I fear that not all of our
"Dark Ages" are in the past.
Dave Perry
I. P. Freely - 29 Sep 2005 17:27 GMT
"Peter Headland" <wrote

> I see no difference between
> the hard core religious right and the Taliban.

HUGE, OVERWHELMING difference:
The hard core religious right is just a bunch of noisy nutcakes that give
the right a bad name.
The Taliban rule(d) a nation.

I.P.
Steve Kramer - 29 Sep 2005 22:18 GMT
I really hate to leave this thread at this, the most asinine point asserted
therein, but I made a mistake in taking the thread to the current
discussion.  I would like to apologize to all for that and to thank Greg
Louis for subtly pointing out to me the error.  Furthermore, I pray to God
that Jerry Falwell does not lop off my head.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> > I told him that he's basically amoral.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> religious beliefs until I came to the USA. I see no difference between
> the hard core religious right and the Taliban.
Dan Reynolds - 26 Sep 2005 21:22 GMT
Are you a member of any organizations?
They sometimes have group rates for members that require no physical.
Best of luck.
DanR

> Hi all!
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> Rus
> Massachusetts
Tom Cular - 29 Sep 2005 10:26 GMT
When I changed employers in April there were of course the pile of insurance
applications, Medical, Life (Met Life) and AFLAC. I was honest about my Pca
and my wife's Bca and treatments. The only coverage we were not eligible for
was the AFLAC "first occurrence of cancer". My share of the premiums came
directly from the tables based on age. Obviously the insurance companies
have their individual underwriting policies.

Tom
> Are you a member of any organizations?
> They sometimes have group rates for members that require no physical.
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> > Rus
> > Massachusetts
 
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