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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / September 2005

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1 week out

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42n8-1 - 19 Sep 2005 16:47 GMT
i am 1 week out of rrp surgury (doctor Allen Wein ,university of
pennsylvania)  .Doctor Wein seems very confident that the cancer was
confined to the prostate gland .he was also able to save both nerve bundles
.i feel good .still getting chilly and hot .just about got all the old tape
off .hair down there is growing back .bowels flowing pretty good .i am
eating very well .staples are still a little tender .catheter and staples
are schedualed to come out on this wednesday .family and friends support has
been very good .this newsgroup has been very good also .thanks .
Buttercup's Dad - 19 Sep 2005 17:58 GMT
Dear 42:
   Hope I am not being too forward by addressing you by your first number.
   First, I envy you getting the catheter out that fast.  My doc kept them
in for three full weeks back in 2003.  Not sure if that is still the
practice or not?  I do know that I was glad to be rid of that thing.
   Remember that the body heals much slower on the inside, so as you heal
and start to feel good be cautious and try not to overdo it.  That can cause
a setback that you don't want.
   Not sure if you doctor has talked to you about the side effects (SE's),
but don't lose any sleep over that.  Most guys regain urinary continence by
the third month, that based on what I have observed here.  The potency, if
that is a problem at all, for some men they have erections with the catheter
still in (!!!), that can take a lot longer.  Depending upon what you read,
that can take as long as four years.  You may want to talk to your doctor
about use of Viagra or one of the other med's as a therapeutic measure to
help regain potency if needed.  Some here have been successful in getting
insurance to pay for this.
   Good luck to you.  Best wishes for a lifetime of undetectable PSA's.
   Thank you.
David S.

> i am 1 week out of rrp surgury (doctor Allen Wein ,university of
> pennsylvania)  .Doctor Wein seems very confident that the cancer was
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> are schedualed to come out on this wednesday .family and friends support has
> been very good .this newsgroup has been very good also .thanks .
Ron B - 19 Sep 2005 20:46 GMT
Wonderful 42.

Things sound good.

When the tape was loose on my cath...I hiked it up with more surgical
tape to just keep it hangin' on.

Do any kind of rig to keep yourself comfortable.

Wednesday will be a good day. As the nurse told me...nobody misses the
appointment to remove the cath.  :-)

Maybe bring a Depends in case you leak (they'll give you something if
you don't bring it)

About 10 days is a great time for cath removal.

Just hang in there and keep us informed.

We care about your progress.

Ron B.

Chicago
Steve U - 20 Sep 2005 01:25 GMT
42, It sound like you are doing fine. For me, getting the catheter out
was painless and a big psychological boost.
SteveU
42n8-1 - 20 Sep 2005 16:15 GMT
hey people  '
thanks for the posts. will keep you posted .
Harry
42n8-1    (fortunate 1)
Steve Kramer - 20 Sep 2005 22:50 GMT
Glad to hear you came through it well.  Chills and fever were gone after 10
days for me.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> i am 1 week out of rrp surgury (doctor Allen Wein ,university of
> pennsylvania)  .Doctor Wein seems very confident that the cancer was
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> are schedualed to come out on this wednesday .family and friends support has
> been very good .this newsgroup has been very good also .thanks .
MrP - 23 Sep 2005 21:50 GMT
>i am 1 week out of rrp surgury (doctor Allen Wein ,university of
>pennsylvania)  .Doctor Wein seems very confident that the cancer was
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>are schedualed to come out on this wednesday .family and friends support has
>been very good .this newsgroup has been very good also .thanks .

I had both bladder and prostate removed about 5 weeks ago.  Had both
superpubic and Foley catheters to deal with for a couple weeks after
getting out of the hospital, but they came out (along with the
staples) about a week or so ago.  Am really going through a lot of
Depends and Assures, but am OK while either sitting still or laying
down on either side.  Am working to try and strengthen the pelvic
muscles by doing Kegel exercises, but these evidently take a while to
show progress.  Am anxious to get back to work, and feeling better
every day--still, it's discouraging not to have control.  All the rash
and itching down there isn't very helpful, either.

Found that the best (and incidentally the cheapest) way to keep the
catheters in place is with ordinary duct tape--even my urologist
recommended it.  There are also some leg patches that measure about
5X6 inches that make a good surface to tape things down on.  I had to
be careful about irrigating the catheters every 4 hours, since I've
got a "bladder" now that is made of intestinal tissue that generates
significant amounts of mucous, and this can plug up the catheters
pretty fast.

MrP
Steve Kramer - 24 Sep 2005 11:46 GMT
Bladder too?  Had the cancer spread to the bladder?

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> >i am 1 week out of rrp surgury (doctor Allen Wein ,university of
> >pennsylvania)  .Doctor Wein seems very confident that the cancer was
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> MrP
MrP - 24 Sep 2005 19:59 GMT
Yes Steve, I was originally diagnosed with transitional cell carcinoma
(of the bladder), the "in situ" form that tends to spread out over the
bladder lining.  Following several BCG treatments, bladder biopsies
were consistently negative, but I continued to show trace evidence of
T-cell carcinoma & cell abnormalities when urine cytologies were done.
My PSA was running about 4 to 5 during this time.

At my last bladder exam (cystoscopy) the urologist said my bladder
looked "excellent," and could see no evidence of problems, however my
PSA had gone to about 6, so he did a needle biopsy of the prostate
that came back positive (not for prostate cancer but for bladder
cancer).  So there I was with a good bladder, but a prostate permeated
with bladder cancer.  His recommendation was to remove both bladder
and prostate, since the probability of recurrence would be high for
the bladder in any case.

The surgery went OK, but left me with a foot-long scar from pubic bone
to about 5" above the navel.  Lymph nodes were found negative, and
tissue sample tests showed that the problem was confined to the
capsule of the prostate.  I lost about 1-1/2" of urethra in the
process, since they had to keep cutting off samples until they got to
the point where it was free of cancer cells.

So in answer to your question, yes--the cancer had spread out over the
bladder lining and affected the urethra and prostate (this had been
going on for about 10 years).  Subsequent (post-op) examination of the
urethra samples showed suspicious cells, so I may be in for radiation
after this heals up--however my urologist says there is little in the
way of history to go on, not many cases like mine.  Clearly radiation
involving the neobladder doesn't sound like a good idea, and at this
point am thinking that my best option might have been to go with an
ilial diversion (external bag), although the idea of internal
retention seemed a much better choice at the time.

It is now 5 weeks post-op, and things are dribbling rather badly,
going through a lot of pads, washcloths and anything else that can be
called upon to soak things up.  Am OK at night (get up every 2 hours),
but mucous plugs occur often because of the intestinal material used
to construct the neobladder.  

Am considering the "Afex Incontinence System" to allow me to at least
get out of the house and do things in the interim--any ideas about
this rig?

Thanks in advance for any ideas!

-MrP

>Bladder too?  Had the cancer spread to the bladder?
Steve Kramer - 24 Sep 2005 22:09 GMT
Very interesting.  I suspect, from your description, having bladder cancer
is less deadly than prostate cancer, but that QOL might be better with the
latter.

I would estimate that your urinary problem is totally different for most PCa
victims.  If I am correct (and I will be soon corrected if not), the kegels
'we' use are between the bladder and prostate whereas you are now dealing
with your kegels having been removed?

Your experience with the nighttime retention is similar.  You can thank
Newton for that.  Gravity keeps thins nice and dry for most of us.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> Yes Steve, I was originally diagnosed with transitional cell carcinoma
> (of the bladder), the "in situ" form that tends to spread out over the
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> >Bladder too?  Had the cancer spread to the bladder?
MrP - 25 Sep 2005 03:44 GMT
>Very interesting.  I suspect, from your description, having bladder cancer
>is less deadly than prostate cancer, but that QOL might be better with the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Your experience with the nighttime retention is similar.  You can thank
>Newton for that.  Gravity keeps thins nice and dry for most of us.

The urologist said that I should have a good chance for continence,
and did advise the usual Kegel exercises.  I have no trouble starting
and stopping the flow except when holding a volume of 150 ml or more.

Night time is great, even when having to get up every two hours--it's
nice to be dry for that period of time.  Usually am OK when sitting
also, it's getting out of the chair (or bed) and standing up that's
the challenge.

-MrP
Steve U - 26 Sep 2005 00:51 GMT
MrP and Steve Kramer,
I read somewhere that the Kegels strengthen the pubococcygeus muscle,
which is not part of the bladder. So hopefully Kegels will help MrP the
same as they have helped many of us.
Steve U

> >Very interesting.  I suspect, from your description, having bladder cancer
> >is less deadly than prostate cancer, but that QOL might be better with the
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> -MrP

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