hi my dad was told today his gleason number is at an 8 and that he should
have his prostate removed? His Psa number has been at 5 for the last 3
years. I am confused and hoping someone can shed some experience.
dbohan1@aol.com
Peter Headland - 07 Sep 2005 01:04 GMT
How old is your father? What sort of physical health is he in? Was he
given a "clinical stage" something like "T1c" or T2a" along with his
pathology result? And is his Gleason score 4+4=8, 3+5=8 or 5+3=8?
In any event, the first thing you both should do is read some books.
The ones most often recommended in this group are:
Dr. Patrick Walsh's Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer by Patrick C.
Walsh
Dr. Peter Scardino's Prostate Book by Peter Scardino
Primer on Prostate Cancer by Stephen B. Strum
Read at least two of these books.
If your dad hasn't had a second opinion yet, he should. Where does he
live?

Signature
Peter Headland
bohan - 07 Sep 2005 01:15 GMT
My father is 70 In GREAT health. we live in Southern California His Gleason
was 4+4
bohan - 07 Sep 2005 01:30 GMT
oh yes it is t2a
jhhtexas@ieee.org - 07 Sep 2005 16:35 GMT
If you haven't done so already, get a second opinion from a PCa "Center
of Excellence" in Southern California like UCLA Medical Center or City
of Hope. Statistics show a better survival rate with research centers
that specialize in PCa than with many suburban doctors.
bohan - 08 Sep 2005 21:46 GMT
My biggest concern is the specialist can't see him for 2 weeks? is this
waiting to long being that his gleason is an 8???
c palmer - 08 Sep 2005 22:09 GMT
My biggest concern is the specialist can't see him for 2 weeks? is this
waiting to long being that his gleason is an 8???
======> no, to them, it's a business. people get diseases and they
schedule appointments. to us, we are the ones who have the pca inside
and that same time frame seems like forever.
during the next two weeks, you need to learn all you can about what the
disease is, how the disease develops into a fatal stage and what
treatments are available to remove it, kill it or slow it's progression.
make no mistake about prostate cancer, it is a disease that will kill
and you have to kill it before it kills you.
and what makes this disease so dangerous is that you feel fine until
it's gotten a tight grip on you and then it makes it's presence known.
knowledge is the key. by learning as much as you can. when you see the
specialist, you will be able to discuss all the treatments in open terms
that you both understand and can ask questions and get answers to some
of the things that are bothering you as you read about prostate cancer.
best of luck,
~ curtis
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Peter Headland - 09 Sep 2005 01:57 GMT
> the specialist can't see him for 2 weeks
This is a good thing - it gives your father time to read some books and
web sites so he understands exactly what he is being told and konws
what questions to ask.

Signature
Peter Headland
Peter Headland - 07 Sep 2005 17:56 GMT
T2a means that the doctor can feel a lump in your father's prostate
when he does the DRE (digital rectal exam - finger up the butt to feel
the prostate). T2a and Gleason 4+4 means your father has an aggressive
cancer that must be treated promptly (within a few months), but still
has a reasonable chance of a good outcome.
City of Hope in LA does good work with robotic surgery - Drs Wilson and
Kawachi are both top men in the field; insist on one of those two if
you decide to go to City of Hope.

Signature
Peter Headland
Steve Jordan - 07 Sep 2005 01:08 GMT
> hi my dad was told today his gleason number is at an 8 and that he should
> have his prostate removed? His Psa number has been at 5 for the last 3
> years. I am confused and hoping someone can shed some experience.
There are two Gleason grades, the first represents that proportion of the
specimen that includes the most of a certain grade (4, for example); the
second grade represents that proportion of the specimen that includes the
second-greatest amount, which could be another 4, for example. The two
grades are added together to arrive at the Gleason score; eg 4+4=8.
A Gleason score of 8 requires treatment (tx), but each of us is unique and
the appropriate tx for me might be wrong for anyone else.
There simply is not enough information in bohan's post for anyone to come
to any reasonable conclusion as to what is appropriate for bohan's father.
What is the patient's age and general state of health? What are other test
results? Surely there have been other tests; or have there?
PSA?
DRE findings?
When, exactly, was the last biopsy and its result?
There is no simple, quick, easy answer; certainly not based upon the bare
minimum information supplied to us.
What are the facts? All of the facts?
Regards,
Steve J
"What are the facts? Again and again and again -- what are the facts? Shun
wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget 'what the stars
foretell,' avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the
unguessable 'verdict of history' -- what are the facts, and to how many
decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your
single clue. Get the facts!"
--Lazarus Long
bohan - 07 Sep 2005 01:20 GMT
Ok gleason is 4+4 his psa has been at 5 for the last 3 years (has not
increased) he is 70 and in great health otherwise I am curious as to what
other peoples numbers are???what exactly is dre readings the dr did not
mention that at all. We live in So California
Steve Jordan - 07 Sep 2005 18:21 GMT
On September 6, bohan replied to me:
> Ok gleason is 4+4 his psa has been at 5 for the last 3 years (has not
> increased) he is 70 and in great health otherwise I am curious as to what
> other peoples numbers are???what exactly is dre readings the dr did not
> mention that at all. We live in So California
"Other people's numbers" vary all over the lot. One of the early lessons in
this war is that every one of us is different and any attempt to base tx
choice on anyone else's result is dangerous.
DRE = digital rectal examination. That resulted in the T2A clinical
staging. Essentially it means a lump or hard spot was felt on one side of
the prostate.
I recommend two actions:
(1) Run do not walk to Prostate Oncology Specialists in Marina del Rey.
Drs. Scholz and Lam have impeccable reputations; and no, I'm not a patient.
Their website is: http://www.prostateoncology.com/
(2) Refer to the excellent website of the Prostate Cancer Research Institute at
http://prostate-cancer.org/index.html
There one will find volumes of lifesaving information.
The patient and bohan are just beginning a no-quarter fight against a
merciless killer.
Study, Learn, Take Charge!
Regards,
Steve J
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a
hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory
gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor
yourself, you will succumb in every battle."
--Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
Steve Kramer - 08 Sep 2005 14:25 GMT
I have nothing to add to the comments you've already seen, but to simplify
the responses....
The PSA may have been 5, but has nothing to do with the Gleason score of
4+4=8. A PSA of 5 is fairly low for a diagnosed patient. A Gleason of 8 is
very high.
The doctor did report on the DRE. His stage is T2a. That is based on what
he felt during the DRE.
You asked for comparisons... Comparisons mean nothing at all, but if your
interested, the average PSA when the participants of this NG were diagnosed
was ten times higher, but the median is about 6 or 7. T2a is pretty good by
comparison, but probably half of the DRE stages are changed once the
prostate is biopsies after surgery (that's not to say you father needs
surgery) The Gleason is the real problem. About 19% of all the patients
here had a Gleason 8 or higher. It is a dangerous level.

Signature
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum
> hi my dad was told today his gleason number is at an 8 and that he should
> have his prostate removed? His Psa number has been at 5 for the last 3
> years. I am confused and hoping someone can shed some experience.
>
> dbohan1@aol.com